Rylana wrote: »

No. Not worth the change. Breton Sorc is just as powerful as Altmer.

The elemental damage only applies to one skilltree of the sorc, and most of the strongest damage rotations of the class come out of abilities that arent buffed at all by elemental damage. (frags, curse, etc)

The only place youd notice anything is if you do nothing but destro weave and overload, which is really kinda crap compared to actually pushing out the heavy hitting non ultimate class skills.

The regen bonus from Altmer is an absolute wash once you hit 531 CP, cost reduction all the way at that point, as getting enough magicka regen just out of CP + maybe one jewelry enchant is more than sufficient for just about anything.



Also - PvP specific - the spell damage mitigation Breton brings to the table is legit. Breton > High Elf all day everyday for PvP sorc.

GazettE wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

No. Not worth the change. Breton Sorc is just as powerful as Altmer.

The elemental damage only applies to one skilltree of the sorc, and most of the strongest damage rotations of the class come out of abilities that arent buffed at all by elemental damage. (frags, curse, etc)

The only place youd notice anything is if you do nothing but destro weave and overload, which is really kinda crap compared to actually pushing out the heavy hitting non ultimate class skills.

The regen bonus from Altmer is an absolute wash once you hit 531 CP, cost reduction all the way at that point, as getting enough magicka regen just out of CP + maybe one jewelry enchant is more than sufficient for just about anything.



Also - PvP specific - the spell damage mitigation Breton brings to the table is legit. Breton > High Elf all day everyday for PvP sorc.

I see, coz lately i've been farming vMA and i was thinking as altmer with 7% elemental damage can really boost my destro staff weaving and overload damage and kill enemies faster.

And yeah i have max CP and i have about 1k mag regen with 1 jewelry regen enchant.

Thanks for your opinion though

Rylana wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

No. Not worth the change. Breton Sorc is just as powerful as Altmer.

The elemental damage only applies to one skilltree of the sorc, and most of the strongest damage rotations of the class come out of abilities that arent buffed at all by elemental damage. (frags, curse, etc)

The only place youd notice anything is if you do nothing but destro weave and overload, which is really kinda crap compared to actually pushing out the heavy hitting non ultimate class skills.

The regen bonus from Altmer is an absolute wash once you hit 531 CP, cost reduction all the way at that point, as getting enough magicka regen just out of CP + maybe one jewelry enchant is more than sufficient for just about anything.



Also - PvP specific - the spell damage mitigation Breton brings to the table is legit. Breton > High Elf all day everyday for PvP sorc.

I see, coz lately i've been farming vMA and i was thinking as altmer with 7% elemental damage can really boost my destro staff weaving and overload damage and kill enemies faster.

And yeah i have max CP and i have about 1k mag regen with 1 jewelry regen enchant.

Thanks for your opinion though

1k? I sit at 1700 on a Breton. More than enough, keeping a magicka/spellpower potion on full uptime pushes that to 2k effectively.

The cost of a race change just doesnt justify it, especially if youre already capable of conquering VMA as it is.

GazettE wrote: »

Erasure wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

But im a breton lol

Idk about dunmer. I dont really look into it as option for magsorc.

More fire damage and slightly less magic/ lightning damage, It depends on your element preference.

At any rate, the difference between the three races would be small. If you're not the type to minmax characters for leaderboards or personal bests, it would be hard to notice the difference without addon readouts.

True, very slight difference.

Actually i dont have preference for elements, but when i see sorc abilities mostly is lightning so i see altmer as an option to boost my damage. Plus im still looking for vma inferno staff and currently using vma ice staff. So yeah i did not see dunmer as an option for me. xD

Nifty2g wrote: »

From an end game point of view, some of the replies in here are just outright misinformation, if you want to minmax, get an altmer, honestly.

Dunmer is great for Dragonknight, Nightblade and Templar but Altmer is amazing for Sorcerers

You don't really need 1.7k regen lol, not for PvE at all, as for the Cost Reduction vs Regen debates, people are also off, with cost reduction gathering more diminishing returns and regen scaling better grab the regen.

Altmer buffs your Shooting star, force pulse, wall of elements, overload, mages wrath, implosion as well i believe, liquid lightning, boundless storm, most of your high damage sources would be elemental damage.

Nifty2g wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

From an end game point of view, some of the replies in here are just outright misinformation, if you want to minmax, get an altmer, honestly.

Dunmer is great for Dragonknight, Nightblade and Templar but Altmer is amazing for Sorcerers

You don't really need 1.7k regen lol, not for PvE at all, as for the Cost Reduction vs Regen debates, people are also off, with cost reduction gathering more diminishing returns and regen scaling better grab the regen.

Altmer buffs your Shooting star, force pulse, wall of elements, overload, mages wrath, implosion as well i believe, liquid lightning, boundless storm, most of your high damage sources would be elemental damage.

Surely dunmer is still better though? 3% more power on shooting star, 3% on woe and inferno staff. 1% less on force pulse surely since the update? Looking at most dps readouts woe is responsible for most of the dps isn't it? Surely you want to focus on buffing the stuff you use the most, esp as sorc meta is revolving around sharp inferno + woe.

You don't even the space to fit most sorc abilities in. You have.

Destro, woe, pulse, aegis, frags, inner light and shooting star.

Swords, LL, aegis, ward, boundless and I use proxy as you don't need inner light on back bar (actually good in most trials for jumping into a pack like the zerg in hel Ra ) plus the burn damage on a dunmer gets boosted too.

Unless you are using overload which most don't in raids you'd pick Shooting Star surely it's better to go dunmer, more fire skills and magic than anything else.

I don't believe so no, from the people I have heard who play sorcs
Altmer
Increases Max Magicka by 10%
Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 4%.

Dunmer
Increases Max Magicka by 9%
Increases your Flame Damage by 7%. Increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 2%.

Comparisons
Shooting Star - 3% Stronger on a Dunmer
Wall of Elements - 3% Stronger on a Dunmer
Mages Wrath - 2% Stronger on an Altmer
Force Pulse - 2% Stronger on an Altmer with 3% Stronger on a Dunmer for Fire Element
Liquid Lightning - 2% Stronger on an Altmer
Boundless Storm - 2% Stronger on an Altmer
Overload - 2% Stronger on an Altmer
Implosion - 2% Stronger on an Altmer

Now if we factor in the 1% extra magicka that Altmer recieves over Dunmer, it will also scale a lot better as you are a Sorcerer your Bound Armor scales your magicka with a warhorn pretty well so those percentages will increase to around 2.8% - 3% for Altmer and the 3% stronger for a Dunmer becomes around 2.5% or so stronger

So really, thinking logically here, you are gaining a marginal increase using an Altmer over a Dunmer

GazettE wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

Erasure wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

But im a breton lol

Idk about dunmer. I dont really look into it as option for magsorc.

More fire damage and slightly less magic/ lightning damage, It depends on your element preference.

At any rate, the difference between the three races would be small. If you're not the type to minmax characters for leaderboards or personal bests, it would be hard to notice the difference without addon readouts.

True, very slight difference.

Actually i dont have preference for elements, but when i see sorc abilities mostly is lightning so i see altmer as an option to boost my damage. Plus im still looking for vma inferno staff and currently using vma ice staff. So yeah i did not see dunmer as an option for me. xD

Dunmer is mainly for PvE, with the buff to their elemental damage I "think" they're slightly better in raids. The difference between altmer and dunmer seems incredibly small though. Like 200~ dps when you're doing around 45kish. In pvp breton is pretty badass so there isn't a need to switch, the resistance is probably better than the regen/tiny damage increase honestly. At the very least it's probably a wash.

tl;dr: For pve go ahead to altmer, if you're pure pvp no point wasting crowns.

Thanks for the input though.

Im actually doing more pve than pvp. But i guess after several reply in this thread, i think i'll save up my crown till zos give us discount on those token.
The token's price is way too expensive

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

In vma yes. Overload all the way. I use swords as there is no need to double destro. You'd just be duplicating yourself. My bars were above. I honestly do not see the need for 2 destro. It's just a back bar for buffing, LL and that's about it in any setting, plus you need swords for overload, you're gimping yourself not having them on if you even plan on overloading, which you'd have on a back bar anywhere as it's your main source of magika return.

Also in vma that crystal phase is a lot lot easier with a little bit more stam. I have played an altmer in there and found that part a lot more difficult for instance 2 skulls and you can't dodge a meteor, dunmer can.

And there are plenty of blocking situs in trials. Hel Ra when you go up top. Get 3 casters on you my Sorc can block all 3 attacks and dodge, an altmer wouldnt. The troll in sanctum eats up 9k stam in a second. The ground attack hits anything it pleases. Dodging a relentless popcorn on mantikora. Shrapnel on foundation stone Atro, that again targets who ever it wants. That little bit extra on escaping sun eater silencing. Quite a lot of times you need stam on a mag class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7KRsu4XwZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-3s8jRPbo

Nifty2g wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

That's true of course. But you can't fit all those skills into any rotation. That's what I'm getting at, if you stacked all those skills you'd have no room for aegis or surge which are critical to a sorc. Also lest we forget...a dunmer can block / dodge 1 time more than an altmer...I find that a huge game changer.

Sounds as if you need to work on your bars you shouldn't be using dual swords in trials, and I'm not sure what pve content you are doing that requires you roll dodge 4 times in a row, and I don't know what you're blocking that will eat all your stamina up when your tank should be taking care of that, I mean this is stuff that doesn't even factor into your damage, you also shouldn't be running surge, ward or proximity detonation in trials (your example bars)

Overload is incredibly strong for VMA, as is liquid lightning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN_Wwvp65vs

Really, I can't find out why a Dunmer would be better with how magicka scales and majority of your class skills scaling with shock damage

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

What is your goal? If you are trying to be competitive at endgame PVE DPS, then the change is most certainly worth it. You will pull more DPS on an Altmer no question. Everything @Nifty2g said is correct. If VMA farming is your main goal, then again, the change is worth it. Basically all your damage other than frags is elemental.

For PVP, its much more debatable. Also, Dunmer is not better on a sorc. Might be better on every other class for magic, but not Sorc, they do too much shock damage.

No if you want to debate the merits of the cost of race change as some have tried to do, that's a different issue. If you are asking the question, I assume you are okay with the cost.

code65536 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

From an end game point of view, some of the replies in here are just outright misinformation, if you want to minmax, get an altmer, honestly.

@Rylana isn't wrong, per se; they are a PvPer, and their post reflects that perspective. In PvP, a sorc does a lot more Magic damage, whereas in PvE, Elemental damage is much more important. I remember back before the CP damage consolidation in TG, sorcs would change CP between Elemental and Magic for moving between PvP and PvE.

Nifty2g wrote: »

as for the Cost Reduction vs Regen debates, people are also off

With the changes last patch to eliminate the multiplicative stacking of regen, I'm not sure if this is still true, though I have not actually done the math yet to see just how much the regen nerf affects the regen-vs-reduction question.

@Wrobel had stated during the race rebalancing discussions that it is his intention for Breton's cost reduction to be better for sustain (to which our response was along the lines of, "Did you do the math?"), and then we see a last-minute nerf (ahem, "fix") of regen's stacking in Update 11. Probably not a coincidence.

Rylana wrote: »

No. Not worth the change. Breton Sorc is just as powerful as Altmer.

The elemental damage only applies to one skilltree of the sorc, and most of the strongest damage rotations of the class come out of abilities that arent buffed at all by elemental damage. (frags, curse, etc)

The only place youd notice anything is if you do nothing but destro weave and overload, which is really kinda crap compared to actually pushing out the heavy hitting non ultimate class skills.

The regen bonus from Altmer is an absolute wash once you hit 531 CP, cost reduction all the way at that point, as getting enough magicka regen just out of CP + maybe one jewelry enchant is more than sufficient for just about anything.



Also - PvP specific - the spell damage mitigation Breton brings to the table is legit. Breton > High Elf all day everyday for PvP sorc.