Viper and Velidreth

  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Ankael07 wrote: »
    How dare you heretics question Lord Wrobel's creations. He's the daedric lord of balance and seed spreading.

    You mean that Wroebel is actually Jyggalag (which sounds familiar to Giga Lag)?

    That would explain A LOT!!!!
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • KisoValley
    KisoValley
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    Stamina is completely over performing at the moment, I agree it has a lot to do with the sets they have access too and the lack of counter sets as compared to things that counter mag builds. If you compare Stam vs mag on every class stam is winning and it's not really close.

    I want to have hope for update 12 balancing this out but it's been the trend for a long time.

    Magplar is stronger than any stam class atm. Stamplar is joint top with stamblade though in terms of stam builds.
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  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    ITT: People who don't understand that something doesn't have to be bugged/broken to be overpowered and need a balance.

    For giggles, I compared Velidreth to Skoria/Nerienth on a magicka build to see which would be more effective in fights. Hilariously, Velidreth does more damage per hit (~9.9k for each spore with all magicka CP allocation compared to Skoria and Nerienth which had smaller tooltips). It also has a significantly better proc chance than either set, and also isn't a sluggish ground AoE that only a potato would remain inside. The only downsides are that you must be within a closer range to get the proc and the CD is slightly longer.

    Is a set really balance relative to the rest of the game when a stamina damage set has a better proc chance and significantly more damage (even if just one spore hits...) on a magicka build than a magicka set?
    Synozeer wrote: »
    Viper's sting and Velidreth are worse than Malubeth before it was fixed.

    Malubeth still isn't fixed.

    Keep fighting the good fight Azoi.

    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    frozywozy wrote: »
    @ManDraKE - why are you defending those sets? everyone here agrees about how broken it is. what is your point?

    First of all, no "everyone agrees", we all know that most of the people that complains in this kind of threads don't know what they are talking about, the most close they have been to theorycrafting is watching syhper's build videos. We all saw "everyone" saying that malubeth was not broken, yet it got nerfed/fixed 4 times and is still broken.

    I'm not defending "those sets", i said that velidreth and widow marker are OP, but viper is not. Both of those sets outperform viper by a big margin in PvP situations (and even more when you stack them). I defend viper because is a good set that fits really well in some builds like DW/2H, and i'm tired of meta cookie-cutter 2h/bow with blackrose+2monster+agility+vma weapon builds for stam, everyone is running the SAME (insert word with the F here) BUILD. If the set is not broken/unbalanced, why should you nerf it? Is pretty clear that half of the people complaining here haven't tested anything, they see the death recaps and they call for nerf in an instant.

    Velidreth and widowmaker need a nerf imo, but viper don't. That is what i'm trying to say, and atm haven't seen any real arguments that convince me otherwise (tbh, haven't seen a single arguments about anything, just good old crying).
    Edited by ManDraKE on August 29, 2016 5:18PM
  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    i'm tired of meta cookie-cutter 2h/bow with blackrose+2monster+vma weapon builds for stam. If the set is not broken, why should you nerf it? Is pretty clear that half of the people complaining here haven't tested anything, they see the death recaps and they call for nerf in an instant.

    I hate to break it to you mate, but Viper is meta.Even my grandma is running Viper, and she can't see out of her left eye (which is fine because viper is so easy to proc).
    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    1fe9e2537f8a4a07abda38623826e399.png


    That shows how ZoS treats stam and magicka.

    Stambuilds running vicecannon put a strong DoT if an attack is done form stealth. Any attack. (Paired with poison inject/morag tong that's an even stronger attack)... on top of that it has a 15 secs HoT

    Magicka builds running Galerion need to accomplish with:

    1- Six succesful basic attacks (yeah, in dodgeland)
    2- They must be done within 15 secs (how many HA can you cast in 15 secs?)
    3- After those 6 attacks, targets detonates for (and this is the best part) 4.5 K magic dmg, which is halved by BS and reduced even more by CPs


    Velidreths (compared to Nerieneth or Skoria) just replicates the model shown above: Stam, easy mode; magicka, just nothing.

    In before we read about the skill it takes to run stam builds.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • Ragnaroek93
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    KisoValley wrote: »
    Stamina is completely over performing at the moment, I agree it has a lot to do with the sets they have access too and the lack of counter sets as compared to things that counter mag builds. If you compare Stam vs mag on every class stam is winning and it's not really close.

    I want to have hope for update 12 balancing this out but it's been the trend for a long time.

    Magplar is stronger than any stam class atm. Stamplar is joint top with stamblade though in terms of stam builds.

    Magplar shines in group play in my opinion, you can handle them with a lot roots in duels. In my opinion Stamdk is the strongest class right now for duels but gets outperformed in open world by Nb (which aren't as strong as people think in duels :P).
  • Ragnaroek93
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    1fe9e2537f8a4a07abda38623826e399.png


    That shows how ZoS treats stam and magicka.

    Stambuilds running vicecannon put a strong DoT if an attack is done form stealth. Any attack. (Paired with poison inject/morag tong that's an even stronger attack)... on top of that it has a 15 secs HoT

    Magicka builds running Galerion need to accomplish with:

    1- Six succesful basic attacks (yeah, in dodgeland)
    2- They must be done within 15 secs (how many HA can you cast in 15 secs?)
    3- After those 6 attacks, targets detonates for (and this is the best part) 4.5 K magic dmg, which is halved by BS and reduced even more by CPs


    Velidreths (compared to Nerieneth or Skoria) just replicates the model shown above: Stam, easy mode; magicka, just nothing.

    Both sets aren't that strong, Vice is now fixed and can be purged. Only viable on nightblades.
  • Docmandu
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    My
    Minalan wrote: »
    Unsub, they won't be fired until there is some kind of financial pressure on ZOS.

    Think an Ubsub Day Event would be a nice way to show our "appreciation" for the way they handle things.. can re-activate the sub the next day.. but I'm sure some suit would sh.t his pants when he sees thousands unsub in 1 day.

    Who knows.. they might even fix things before Update 50.
  • Sandman929
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    1fe9e2537f8a4a07abda38623826e399.png


    That shows how ZoS treats stam and magicka.

    Stambuilds running vicecannon put a strong DoT if an attack is done form stealth. Any attack. (Paired with poison inject/morag tong that's an even stronger attack)... on top of that it has a 15 secs HoT

    Magicka builds running Galerion need to accomplish with:

    1- Six succesful basic attacks (yeah, in dodgeland)
    2- They must be done within 15 secs (how many HA can you cast in 15 secs?)
    3- After those 6 attacks, targets detonates for (and this is the best part) 4.5 K magic dmg, which is halved by BS and reduced even more by CPs


    Velidreths (compared to Nerieneth or Skoria) just replicates the model shown above: Stam, easy mode; magicka, just nothing.

    Both sets aren't that strong, Vice is now fixed and can be purged. Only viable on nightblades.

    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • ManDraKE
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    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.

    which is not the point of this thread. We know that most of the magicka sets sucks, but that have nothing to do with the point in question here. Hopefully with the gazillion new sets comming next patch, there would be good magika sets.
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.

    which is not the point of this thread. We know that most of the magicka sets sucks, but that have nothing to do with the point in question here. Hopefully with the gazillion new sets comming next patch, there would be good magika sets.

    Considering the OPs question "is it just me, or is Viper and Velidreth over the top?" I'd say it is relevant to compare mag set proc damage VS. these stam set procs.

    And the answer is yes, they are over the top.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • Agrippa_Invisus
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    Magus wrote: »
    Remember when stam glass cannons had no sustain and stacked weapon damage?

    Now, all they have to do is stack broken sets for their burst DPS.

    Elder Dawnbreakers Online: Stamina Unbalanced.

    Alternate - Elder Stamina Rolldodge - Dawnbreaker Unlimited
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
    DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Ebonheart
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    Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
    For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.

    which is not the point of this thread. We know that most of the magicka sets sucks, but that have nothing to do with the point in question here. Hopefully with the gazillion new sets comming next patch, there would be good magika sets.

    Considering the OPs question "is it just me, or is Viper and Velidreth over the top?" I'd say it is relevant to compare mag set proc damage VS. these stam set procs.

    And the answer is yes, they are over the top.

    if we are going to nerf things compared on how balanced they are vs magika, we need to nerf a plethora of set/skills/ultimates/evasion/etc. Compare these set relative to their alternatives, magika sets being bad is a complete diferent issue.
  • Agrippa_Invisus
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.

    which is not the point of this thread. We know that most of the magicka sets sucks, but that have nothing to do with the point in question here. Hopefully with the gazillion new sets comming next patch, there would be good magika sets.

    Considering the OPs question "is it just me, or is Viper and Velidreth over the top?" I'd say it is relevant to compare mag set proc damage VS. these stam set procs.

    And the answer is yes, they are over the top.

    if we are going to nerf things compared on how balanced they are vs magika, we need to nerf a plethora of set/skills/ultimates/evasion/etc. Compare these set relative to their alternatives, magika sets being bad is a complete diferent issue.

    There's a plethora of Stamina stuff that's wildly unbalanced, but that doesn't mean everything needs a nerf. There are plenty of instances where magicka abilities could easily receive some love and upwards tweaking and be just fine.
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
    DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Ebonheart
    Once a General, now a Citizen
    Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
    For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!
  • Force-Siphon
    Force-Siphon
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    KisoValley wrote: »
    Stamina is completely over performing at the moment, I agree it has a lot to do with the sets they have access too and the lack of counter sets as compared to things that counter mag builds. If you compare Stam vs mag on every class stam is winning and it's not really close.

    I want to have hope for update 12 balancing this out but it's been the trend for a long time.

    Magplar is stronger than any stam class atm. Stamplar is joint top with stamblade though in terms of stam builds.

    Magplar is very strong atm but what makes it strong requires other people with them. Stamplar can shine whether outnumbered or in a group.
    The one and only Force Siphon - PVP Sorc NA
    1 man zerg

    twitch.tv/forcesiphon
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    These specific sets aren't really the point. It's the high proc damage (and ease of proc) of stamina sets compared to magicka sets.

    which is not the point of this thread. We know that most of the magicka sets sucks, but that have nothing to do with the point in question here. Hopefully with the gazillion new sets comming next patch, there would be good magika sets.

    Considering the OPs question "is it just me, or is Viper and Velidreth over the top?" I'd say it is relevant to compare mag set proc damage VS. these stam set procs.

    And the answer is yes, they are over the top.

    if we are going to nerf things compared on how balanced they are vs magika, we need to nerf a plethora of set/skills/ultimates/evasion/etc. Compare these set relative to their alternatives, magika sets being bad is a complete diferent issue.

    I disagree. This method of "don't make my stuff worse, make other stuff better" is the primary force behind runaway damage and the constant swing between stam meta and magicka meta. I don't think they should make magicka sets competitive will current stamina sets, because the mark will invariably be overshot and we'll be back to magicka being OP, and then back to stamina, and then back to magicka.
    Everyone using these sets is comfortable now, so of course no one wants to lose what they've got, even if what they've got is cheap and contributing to imbalance. Too many people love imbalance, when it's in their favor.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • MoeCoastie
    MoeCoastie
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    Play without vigor.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    1fe9e2537f8a4a07abda38623826e399.png


    That shows how ZoS treats stam and magicka.

    Stambuilds running vicecannon put a strong DoT if an attack is done form stealth. Any attack. (Paired with poison inject/morag tong that's an even stronger attack)... on top of that it has a 15 secs HoT

    Magicka builds running Galerion need to accomplish with:

    1- Six succesful basic attacks (yeah, in dodgeland)
    2- They must be done within 15 secs (how many HA can you cast in 15 secs?)
    3- After those 6 attacks, targets detonates for (and this is the best part) 4.5 K magic dmg, which is halved by BS and reduced even more by CPs


    Velidreths (compared to Nerieneth or Skoria) just replicates the model shown above: Stam, easy mode; magicka, just nothing.

    Both sets aren't that strong, Vice is now fixed and can be purged. Only viable on nightblades.

    And Galerion is viable on...?
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Mojmir
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    they'll nerf velidreth when it goes on the vendor lol
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    they'll nerf velidreth when it goes on the vendor lol

    lol
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    OdinForge wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    I'm amazed people think one shotting with stamina builds is somehow new to this game.

    The Methods change but the result is still the same.

    It's not about one shotting or even ganking, the set is legitimately bugged. When you combo it with a few other sets, you can literally have no stats except maybe regen for maximum trolls and overwhelm people with such insane damage. The thread is about a broken set, not ganking.

    You could do something similar to this for a very long time; And honestly Stats don't matter if you're one shotting someone....You think it mattered if I had any Health or Stamina Recovery if I instant gibbed you?

    Anyway...Everyone in this thread is looking at this from the wrong perspective as usual.

    You're talking about nerfing sets because you dislike how this works and yet every single time people pick the most moronic fix possible

    Lets say we nerf Viper Verd and any other set proccing this *** right now...In 1 years time they will have added new sets doing this... And now we have a bunch of previous sets that are now *** while the new sets are doing the same thing you giblets are whining about.

    It takes exactly 1 second to fix any complaint someone has about this setup..

    Add a bloody ICD to Procs, and i don't mean add or increase the cooldown on item Cooldowns either...You could increase the cooldown on all those abilities and they'd still allow for crazy burst.

    I'm talking about a General ICD to all Procs, meaning if you proc one ability, You can't proc another for say..2 seconds

    There .....Fixed forever and no more complaints or whines about Sets getting nerfed in the future.

  • Joy_Division
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    Widowmaker_zpskk1baayf.gif

    ZoS: the company that brings its customer the armor set DoT procs that do more damage than actual skills.
  • GreenSoup2HoT
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    Widowmaker_zpskk1baayf.gif

    ZoS: the company that brings its customer the armor set DoT procs that do more damage than actual skills.

    I think the guy using this in your death recap has shrouded daggers on both bars of his build. He probably proc'd one poison then bar swapped to proc another poison right away. Thats what i can see.

    The double proc poison on console doesnt seem to be procing widowmaker at all right now, so i cant test if its really proccing twice on pc for you. Is that why you crossed out the creep + ravage health?
    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on August 29, 2016 11:06PM
    PS4 NA DC
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
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    Widowmaker_zpskk1baayf.gif

    ZoS: the company that brings its customer the armor set DoT procs that do more damage than actual skills.
    Wearing clothes is the acumen of skill.
    Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time.
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