Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Good grief Sypher and FENGRUSH have enough current videos on this ultimate . It's on almost every major PvP streamers bar currently . Stop being so difficult . There's no blanket statements here . If your heads in the sand or you're being coy to keep easy mode op Ult or just troll for attention it's all bogus arguments .

The way you argue you don't believe something is op is by providing evidence to the contrary , not memes and slogans . Show me some video of this not generating fast and making big damage . Don't argue with rules of arguing lol .

You made the initial claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Just as Meteor is on almost every magicka builds bar as well, just because something is popular does not mean it is OP.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

OP that video isn't nearly as fast as the broken build videos you shown before.

Dawnbreaker is a low cost ultimate, I stand by my statement if you don't want to get rekt by it then drop vampire.

You can see in the video it's not just vampire it it's hard on everything . That's why everyone is using it . Low cost high damage AOE , I stand by my statement .

Its not like, lets see?

Crescent Sweep 822 base + 66% for targets in front and 3 ticks of 400 more.

So:
CS 75 ult, 2564 base damage to targets in front.
DB 100 ult, 2398 base damage, only hits targets in front.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

OP that video isn't nearly as fast as the broken build videos you shown before.

Dawnbreaker is a low cost ultimate, I stand by my statement if you don't want to get rekt by it then drop vampire.

You can see in the video it's not just vampire it it's hard on everything . That's why everyone is using it . Low cost high damage AOE , I stand by my statement .

Lol dawnbreaker doesn't need a nerf just because people are using it intelligently in PVP....

[SNIP]

[Edited for baiting]

I'm not sure if it's different on PC, but it seems, at the very least, 80% stam builds on Xbox NA. Most of which are stamblades and stam DKS.

I understand they don't really have a choice when it comes to effective ultimates, but you are outright lying to yourself if you think Dawnbreaker is balanced.

If you compare it to the other guild ultimate, it instantly falls short. Comet is double the cost, has a HUGE warning before impact and the AOE can simply be walked out of. The only time it feels remotely effective is if the player you cast it on is out of stam, in which case they are basically dead anyway.

Another issue with Dawnbreaker is one that affects any instant cast ability. Not everyone lives in the same country as the server. Most times I'll die to Ambush into Dawnbreaker into finisher before my console even registers combat.

It's everything you want in an ultimate with no downside.

I'll leave you with this:

Many magcika builds use Dawnbreaker as its still more effective than their own ult.... but you don't see ANY stam builds running around going "*** yeah! Love using this comet!"

Minalan wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

OP that video isn't nearly as fast as the broken build videos you shown before.

Dawnbreaker is a low cost ultimate, I stand by my statement if you don't want to get rekt by it then drop vampire.

You can see in the video it's not just vampire it it's hard on everything . That's why everyone is using it . Low cost high damage AOE , I stand by my statement .

Lol dawnbreaker doesn't need a nerf just because people are using it intelligently in PVP....


But hey, why don't we just get rid of meteor, and warhorn too while we're at it. No point in having people run their ultimate optimally, so just remove or nerf everything!

1. You mean spamming it every time it's up? Yeah that's 'clever' use. It's an 'I Win!' Button. What else do you do with it?

2. Meteor takes twice the ultimate, and it's easily blockable for a whopping zero damage. I really wish the window-licking crowd would stop comparing the two.

Who agreed with you lol? OP im guessing....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20rmGl0U1M

Hasnt dawn breaker been this good since the dawn of time? If it was to be nerfed i think it would have happened by now.

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I can drop this ultimate several times in a fight on my Sorc . I don't feel the need to post a bunch of video to show proof as you can walk into Cyrodiil you're self and test with a friend and see for you're self dropping Dawnbreaker two three times in a fight , no problem . If th Devs fixed this issue , why is it still generating quickly ? An if it's not the most powerful Ult , why do we not see diversity in Ult dropping in Cyrodiil . Don't put your heads in sand like Maubeth problem . Just look foolish doing that .

I suppose ai can get on my old toons , form up ball groups and start spamming the map with it over and over till someone else complains . Maybe that is the solution . I'll just go out an wreck people over and over with it instead of trying to be fair and bring up balance .

Of course, why provide evidence when you can make blanket statements based on opinion?

Why I think Sorcerers are OP, in fact here let me link you some video's from 2015 showing them 1vX'ing people. I don't need to provide proof or current evidence, you can walk into Cyrodiil and see how overpowered they are for yourself.

Watch videos from now then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QVVK5F9I0

After the first frame transition or whatever to the second fight, it took sypher 12 seconds to regen enough ultimate to use DB so is that a reasonable amount of time? Or do people think that its to fast? I know that if he would have killed a player it would have gone faster but that's because of the pvp passive. I didn't watch the rest of the video though, so idk if he was able to generate any fast then that.

He's on a DK tank build with black rose so yes it's slower on this toon but still faster then anything else good for him . On a stam nightblade it's faster . Its fastest in my experience on Majika Sorc . About 6-7 seconds between refill .

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

So I know most of you in PvP run Dawnbreaker , some run full Dawnbreaking groups . You probably won't like to be reading this as I've had it up to here with Dawnbreakers in my face all night long . This ult sometimes I'm being hit 3 times in a row by same person leaving me thinking no other AOE ultimate can be spammed this fast . An you all know it too as you're all breaking my face with it over an over . I haven't had one death recap without Dawnbreaker Omlete with side of light attack hashbrowns in a month . So !

Yes for first time I am QQ rage face L2P upsets ! This ability is recharging way to fast . It's a Khajiit vampire apocalypse out there ! Where is balance in this ?

Someone please say I am not crazy for thinking in this way . I despise nerfs except for blatant offenders like Malubeth was . What is causing this ability to be spammed so fast that's probably needing some adjustment ? I don't mind the damage , I know it's supposed to be hitting vampire Khajiit hard in face . Just 3 in a row is way too much Dawnbreaker in one fight . My opinion of course .

Soon we will get weapon ultimates. Going be a balance with most classes who are stam builds.

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I just LOVE how the OP refuses to acknowledge facts....

Edit: Opinions don't matter unless they have some reasonable logic to them... you have nothing here besides intelligent PVP attacks... seriously why is this thread still going?

Can you show me the facts that you say the op is ignoring? The only "facts" I see are

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Meteor base damage with DOT: 1581+4560(DOT), 200 ultimate, Total damage at 200 Ultimate: 6141
DB base damage with DOT: 1027+1371(DOT), 100 ultimate, Total damage at 200 Ultimate: 4796

They both knock you down, there is nothing that makes you gain ultimate faster because you are using DBOS. Meteor has maximum range and telegraphs its strike, but does almost 22% more total damage. DBOS is melee but you get two knockdowns out of 200 ultimate, but does significantly less total damage.

Meanwhile NB's have a 50 cost ult, that gives 6 seconds of Defile and empower, whiles sporting two passives that restore ultimate. 20 ult from potion and 2 ult from siphoning skill use.

There are ways to generate lots of ultimate but you sacrifice lots of damage. It requires using certain sets, as well as certain skills. Sypher killed none of those players quickly and all could have played more defensively and kited, but instead they stayed in his face and tried to overwhelm him.

And

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Its not like, lets see?

Crescent Sweep 822 base + 66% for targets in front and 3 ticks of 400 more.

So:
CS 75 ult, 2564 base damage to targets in front.
DB 100 ult, 2398 base damage, only hits targets in front.

Both of these posts one after the other do not even even have DB hitting at the same amount? What's the poster build? Is he smagicka and comparing DB to meteor or the other way around?

And to that link you posted of deltia, what exactly does that prove? That an ultimate that costs signifactly more can do the same damage as DB? Or that a group who all cast there ultimates in unasince can whipe an un suspecting group?

Edit: you do realise you haven't posted a single logical comment to this thread? Not a single one.

Math is hard... 1027+1371=2398

It is the base damage before scaling for either.

maxjapank wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Its not like, lets see?

Crescent Sweep 822 base + 66% for targets in front and 3 ticks of 400 more.

So:
CS 75 ult, 2564 base damage to targets in front.
DB 100 ult, 2398 base damage, only hits targets in front.

That is a comparison. As a Magicka Templar, I've been debating on which to use. Crescent hits harder up front, but it has a 6m range. Dawnbreaker doesn't hit as hard up front, but it has a 10m range, and it also hits 20% harder against undead, etc.

My question would be...how does Dawnbreaker scale? Does it scale from your highest resource, whether it be Magicka or Stamina? Or being physical dmg...does it scale from Stam and weapon power?

All ultimates scale from your highest resources, they are also affected by any particular buffs you have towards that particular type of damage, and CP.

Defilted wrote: »

Well cordinated groups running negate/root/dawn breaker can be lethal.

^

Which is why I follow groups that run this Honestly though, its the Negate which can turn the tide of battle really fast.

Not seeing where DBOS is over performing though. If it's used as a finisher move, you're dead anyway. If they open up with DBOS, CC break, pop vigor or purge DoT and keep on trucking.

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I just LOVE how the OP refuses to acknowledge facts....

Edit: Opinions don't matter unless they have some reasonable logic to them... you have nothing here besides intelligent PVP attacks... seriously why is this thread still going?

Can you show me the facts that you say the op is ignoring? The only "facts" I see are

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Meteor base damage with DOT: 1581+4560(DOT), 200 ultimate, Total damage at 200 Ultimate: 6141
DB base damage with DOT: 1027+1371(DOT), 100 ultimate, Total damage at 200 Ultimate: 4796

They both knock you down, there is nothing that makes you gain ultimate faster because you are using DBOS. Meteor has maximum range and telegraphs its strike, but does almost 22% more total damage. DBOS is melee but you get two knockdowns out of 200 ultimate, but does significantly less total damage.

Meanwhile NB's have a 50 cost ult, that gives 6 seconds of Defile and empower, whiles sporting two passives that restore ultimate. 20 ult from potion and 2 ult from siphoning skill use.

There are ways to generate lots of ultimate but you sacrifice lots of damage. It requires using certain sets, as well as certain skills. Sypher killed none of those players quickly and all could have played more defensively and kited, but instead they stayed in his face and tried to overwhelm him.

And

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Its not like, lets see?

Crescent Sweep 822 base + 66% for targets in front and 3 ticks of 400 more.

So:
CS 75 ult, 2564 base damage to targets in front.
DB 100 ult, 2398 base damage, only hits targets in front.

Both of these posts one after the other do not even even have DB hitting at the same amount? What's the poster build? Is he smagicka and comparing DB to meteor or the other way around?

And to that link you posted of deltia, what exactly does that prove? That an ultimate that costs signifactly more can do the same damage as DB? Or that a group who all cast there ultimates in unasince can whipe an un suspecting group?

Edit: you do realise you haven't posted a single logical comment to this thread? Not a single one.

I suggested nerfing Meteor as well since some people believe DB is over powered. I gave proof as to how meteor can be used which they guy claimed it could be completely negated... obviously not.

I've yet to see a single logical comment from the OP, he was given facts and proof, he refuses to accept it. Even the videos he linked were from a previous patch... this is just a bait thread nothing more.

Smasher [SNIP] I was very clear as to why I think this skill is OP and why everyone is using it . It has the benefits of generating quickly like incap strike but better because AOE damage . Damage is vs all players , smiting had knockdown . It has a dot . Also casts very fast almost no animation timer . Easily animation canceled .

That's a lot of benefits for one Ultimate . Several good players have been honest evaluators and gave suggestion on tweaks and possible balances , my self including .

[Edited for baiting]

maxjapank wrote: »

As an aoe Ulti, it should cost more. I'd say around 120-150. And I'd make it scale less with Stamina.

It's a cone, so you have to aim it. Devouring swarm is Point Blank AOE as it's centered on you and its an area of effect.

Maybe it's my style of play, but I honestly don't see the problem with dawnbreaker. I have a NB and I can get ultimates really fast with soul harvest (i.e. I play with soul harvest on my main bar not only gaining ultimate from my normal skills but also from deaths around me). In additional strife and other DOT heals work great for ultimate gen. I only play with NB so I'm not going to count on other classes.

IMHO if I am using the set to drop the costs of Ultimates, I'm immediately sac'ing my power from my set I would have otherwise of gotten. In addition, you are forgetting the armor traits that help you build ultimate faster as well.

So I could build an ultimate build, or I can build a higher damage build and generate ultimate normal speed. That said, either requires a sacrifice somewhere. I don't know from a factual standpoint (pen and paper) if the power you can generate as a stam(___) with stam's and weapon damage influence on the skill with the passives and proper skills on bar to gen ultimate faster + the ultimate, gives you an amazing amount of DPS or just Burst DPS (especially against WW and Vamp).

If it's burst, without including ww or vamp damage bonuses, then frankly it's a niche build that is great in a specific instance, but I don't see the OP part of it. If the burst and baseline DPS are really both high, then I think it deserves looking at.