Dawnbreaker X3 needs balance

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

So I know most of you in PvP run Dawnbreaker , some run full Dawnbreaking groups . You probably won't like to be reading this as I've had it up to here with Dawnbreakers in my face all night long . This ult sometimes I'm being hit 3 times in a row by same person leaving me thinking no other AOE ultimate can be spammed this fast . An you all know it too as you're all breaking my face with it over an over . I haven't had one death recap without Dawnbreaker Omlete with side of light attack hashbrowns in a month . So !

Yes for first time I am QQ rage face L2P upsets ! This ability is recharging way to fast . It's a Khajiit vampire apocalypse out there ! Where is balance in this ?

Someone please say I am not crazy for thinking in this way . I despise nerfs except for blatant offenders like Malubeth was . What is causing this ability to be spammed so fast that's probably needing some adjustment ? I don't mind the damage , I know it's supposed to be hitting vampire Khajiit hard in face . Just 3 in a row is way too much Dawnbreaker in one fight . My opinion of course .

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Xeven · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm being hit 3 times in a row by same person

Yo dawg, I heard you like Dawnbreaker so we made Dawnbreaker only cost 100 ult so you can get Dawnbreakered while you get Dawnbreakered.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm being hit 3 times in a row by same person

Yo dawg, I heard you like Dawnbreaker...

But BRUH , it's true !

Defilted · August 2016

Is it the fact that every stam class is using based on your experience so you are seeing it a lot that is the issue?

Could it be that there is not a lot of stam ults that everyone has access to? So this is popular.

Sorcs have a passive that lowers Ult cost by 15%. The dragon set from trials lowers it another 15%.

30% reduction is going to get a lot of ultimates up fast. 15% makes dawnbreaker very cheep. This is a ultimate that can miss as well.

What are you suggesting? Lower the damage or upping the cost?

If you up the cost then it should be a auto hit with no chance of missing.

Thoughts?

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Defilted wrote: »

Is it the fact that every stam class is using based on your experience so you are seeing it a lot that is the issue?

Could it be that there is not a lot of stam ults that everyone has access to? So this is popular.

Sorcs have a passive that lowers Ult cost by 15%. The dragon set from trials lowers it another 15%.

30% reduction is going to get a lot of ultimates up fast. 15% makes dawnbreaker very cheep. This is a ultimate that can miss as well.

What are you suggesting? Lower the damage or upping the cost?

If you up the cost then it should be a auto hit with no chance of missing.

Thoughts?

Ohh I hate double jeopardy round of name that nerf ... The timer music distracting me to think .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU

What is , just up the cost a little bit without nerfing everything into garbage Alex ?

SleepyTroll · August 2016

Defilted wrote: »

Is it the fact that every stam class is using based on your experience so you are seeing it a lot that is the issue?

Could it be that there is not a lot of stam ults that everyone has access to? So this is popular.

Sorcs have a passive that lowers Ult cost by 15%. The dragon set from trials lowers it another 15%.

30% reduction is going to get a lot of ultimates up fast. 15% makes dawnbreaker very cheep. This is a ultimate that can miss as well.

What are you suggesting? Lower the damage or upping the cost?

If you up the cost then it should be a auto hit with no chance of missing.

Thoughts?

For me the problem with these spammable ults, is the reason why ZOS took away dynamic ultimate gen in the first place, ultimates are not supposed to be a 6th skill. They are supposed to be an ultimate. Ultimates like incapacitating strike and dawn breaker are completely against what ZOS intended. Whether ZOS should have removed dynamic ult or not is another topic.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Is it the fact that every stam class is using based on your experience so you are seeing it a lot that is the issue?

Could it be that there is not a lot of stam ults that everyone has access to? So this is popular.

Sorcs have a passive that lowers Ult cost by 15%. The dragon set from trials lowers it another 15%.

30% reduction is going to get a lot of ultimates up fast. 15% makes dawnbreaker very cheep. This is a ultimate that can miss as well.

What are you suggesting? Lower the damage or upping the cost?

If you up the cost then it should be a auto hit with no chance of missing.

Thoughts?

For me the problem with these spammable ults, is the reason why ZOS took away dynamic ultimate gen in the first place, ultimates are not supposed to be a 6th skill. They are supposed to be an ultimate. Ultimates like incapacitating strike and dawn breaker are completely against what ZOS intended. Whether ZOS should have removed dynamic ult or not is another topic.

This is good point as dynamic ult generation is no longer slowing easy mode Ults down . Every new build video is featuring Dawnbreaker of Facebreaking .

Defilted · August 2016

I think Dawn breaker is fine as is. I was curious to hear the OPs solution to his issue. This is why I posed the questions.

Defilted · August 2016

Well cordinated groups running negate/root/dawn breaker can be lethal.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Defilted wrote: »

I think Dawn breaker is fine as is. I was curious to hear the OPs solution to his issue. This is why I posed the questions.

If you enjoy Dawnbreaker you won't want to hear my solution . I would up the cost 100% for starters .

Defilted · August 2016

As long as the changes bring a new balance to the skill that makes it effective then the additional cost is not relavent to me.

To me ults should be
1 fun to use
2 effective based on the cost

Meaning the ultimate could cost 1000 as long as it was effective and balanced.

Brrrofski · August 2016

Well two of them in your feed will be the upfront damage ans then the dot. One will say the morph, the second just dawnbreaker.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Defilted wrote: »

As long as the changes bring a new balance to the skill that makes it effective then the additional cost is not relavent to me.

To me ults should be
1 fun to use
2 effective based on the cost

Meaning the ultimate could cost 1000 as long as it was effective and balanced.

I agree with this . The ultimate now is doing good damage and knock down with smiting . The problem currently being the cost is so low and any attack counts towards ult generation , that it pops right back up after use and gets deployed again within seconds of the first . Ultimates as said were never meant to be cast as often as abilities .

Smasherx74 · August 2016

I don't know what you're talking about because the ultimate costs 75-100. You can't spam it instantly like you're claiming, and if you can you should probably record it so we can see some guy spamming an ultimate 3 times within 3 seconds like you're implying.

The ultimate is fine, drop the vampire and maybe you wouldn't have a problem.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2016

Hmm .......

[SNIP]

If Dawnbreak is such a problem where is the solution ? Maybe there isn't one because Dawnbreak isn't a problem.

Seriously wow DB cost 100 for what ? A knock down and a 2 second DoT. If you are dieing this easily to DB then maybe it's a user problem and not a balancing problem.

[Edited for baiting]

SleepyTroll · August 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm .......

[SNIP]

If Dawnbreak is such a problem where is the solution ? Maybe there isn't one because Dawnbreak isn't a problem.

Seriously wow DB cost 100 for what ? A knock down and a 2 second DoT. If you are dieing this easily to DB then maybe it's a user problem and not a balancing problem.

[Edited for baiting]

Or maybe we think something is a little off, but we lack the technical skills and knowledge to correctly fix the problem.
The same could be said about the people bringing up RD, they think there is a problem, but they can not articulate a solution because they don't have the proper know how.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

I already admitted I was QQ rage face on this . Your troll attempts are weak old man .

Solution already stated in thread . Up the cost or bring back dynamic generation .

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I don't know what you're talking about because the ultimate costs 75-100. You can't spam it instantly like you're claiming, and if you can you should probably record it so we can see some guy spamming an ultimate 3 times within 3 seconds like you're implying.

The ultimate is fine, drop the vampire and maybe you wouldn't have a problem.

Drop vampire . That's real productive and balanced ... derp

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Look you can build this ultimate up fast just swapping bars and charging up buffs .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WPxP-7TASzc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehq09FYUBs0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKuTJo11LA

Plenty of videos out there on DB being easy mode op ultimate .

@Wrobel

In PvP and PvE very fast regen very high damage . Needs tuning one way or other , I suggest slow it down .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KRB3xQwS3L8

Waffennacht · August 2016

Rally, vigor, any HOT will provide a very constant and healthy level of ult.

If you're damaging your opponent without killing him, you are helping him.

Rally = 30 seconds of passive ult gain
Vigor = 5 seconds of passive ult gain
Light attacking weaving = essentially passive ult gain

Add in passive abilities like DK, then maybe even add the ult gain traits and you're lookin at spammable ults. I've thought about makin a build purely based on ult gain.

SturgeHammer · August 2016

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the following happen:

-Flawless DB becomes the increased damage morph with damage equivalent to (or greater than) live DB of smiting with no cc.

-DB of smiting becomes the cc morph with damage equivalent to live Flawless DB with a cc.

Wouldn't change a lot about how it is currently being used, but it would make the pain sting a bit less when getting hit by multiple DBs at the same time or in rapid succession.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Look you can build this ultimate up fast just swapping bars and charging up buffs .

In PvP and PvE very fast regen very high damage . Needs tuning one way or other , I suggest slow it down .

Every single one of those video's is more than a year out of date. All were recorded before Patch 2.1.4 on PC, Patch 1.07 on PS4, and Patch 1.1.0.0 on Xbox1 which all state:

Fixed an issue that was allowing you to generate and activate large amounts of Ultimate.

Perhaps you would like to find some actual reliable and up to date data to support your wildly inaccurate claims?

Smasherx74 · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Look you can build this ultimate up fast just swapping bars and charging up buffs .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WPxP-7TASzc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehq09FYUBs0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKuTJo11LA

Plenty of videos out there on DB being easy mode op ultimate .

@Wrobel

In PvP and PvE very fast regen very high damage . Needs tuning one way or other , I suggest slow it down .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KRB3xQwS3L8

Then nerf whatever mechanics allow people to regen ultimate so very fast.

Next I guess you're going to be complaining about sorcs using overload?

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

@Smasherx74 I already addressed it, the video's were old, all recorded prior to patches to each system which all state:

Fixed an issue that was allowing you to generate and activate large amounts of Ultimate.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Using Sorc passives, and a few different sets, it is possible to get ultimate costs down quite low and regeneration up higher. However I have yet to see any proof that this is actually out of balance or that any player in Cyrodiil not using CE is actually spamming ultimate's.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

I can drop this ultimate several times in a fight on my Sorc . I don't feel the need to post a bunch of video to show proof as you can walk into Cyrodiil you're self and test with a friend and see for you're self dropping Dawnbreaker two three times in a fight , no problem . If th Devs fixed this issue , why is it still generating quickly ? An if it's not the most powerful Ult , why do we not see diversity in Ult dropping in Cyrodiil . Don't put your heads in sand like Maubeth problem . Just look foolish doing that .

I suppose ai can get on my old toons , form up ball groups and start spamming the map with it over and over till someone else complains . Maybe that is the solution . I'll just go out an wreck people over and over with it instead of trying to be fair and bring up balance .

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I can drop this ultimate several times in a fight on my Sorc . I don't feel the need to post a bunch of video to show proof as you can walk into Cyrodiil you're self and test with a friend and see for you're self dropping Dawnbreaker two three times in a fight , no problem . If th Devs fixed this issue , why is it still generating quickly ? An if it's not the most powerful Ult , why do we not see diversity in Ult dropping in Cyrodiil . Don't put your heads in sand like Maubeth problem . Just look foolish doing that .

I suppose ai can get on my old toons , form up ball groups and start spamming the map with it over and over till someone else complains . Maybe that is the solution . I'll just go out an wreck people over and over with it instead of trying to be fair and bring up balance .

Of course, why provide evidence when you can make blanket statements based on opinion?

Why I think Sorcerers are OP, in fact here let me link you some video's from 2015 showing them 1vX'ing people. I don't need to provide proof or current evidence, you can walk into Cyrodiil and see how overpowered they are for yourself.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I can drop this ultimate several times in a fight on my Sorc . I don't feel the need to post a bunch of video to show proof as you can walk into Cyrodiil you're self and test with a friend and see for you're self dropping Dawnbreaker two three times in a fight , no problem . If th Devs fixed this issue , why is it still generating quickly ? An if it's not the most powerful Ult , why do we not see diversity in Ult dropping in Cyrodiil . Don't put your heads in sand like Maubeth problem . Just look foolish doing that .

I suppose ai can get on my old toons , form up ball groups and start spamming the map with it over and over till someone else complains . Maybe that is the solution . I'll just go out an wreck people over and over with it instead of trying to be fair and bring up balance .

Of course, why provide evidence when you can make blanket statements based on opinion?

Why I think Sorcerers are OP, in fact here let me link you some video's from 2015 showing them 1vX'ing people. I don't need to provide proof or current evidence, you can walk into Cyrodiil and see how overpowered they are for yourself.

Watch videos from now then

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QVVK5F9I0

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Good grief Sypher and FENGRUSH have enough current videos on this ultimate . It's on almost every major PvP streamers bar currently . Stop being so difficult . There's no blanket statements here . If your heads in the sand or you're being coy to keep easy mode op Ult or just troll for attention it's all bogus arguments .

The way you argue you don't believe something is op is by providing evidence to the contrary , not memes and slogans . Show me some video of this not generating fast and making big damage . Don't argue with rules of arguing lol .

maxjapank · August 2016

As an aoe Ulti, it should cost more. I'd say around 120-150. And I'd make it scale less with Stamina.