What made this party fail?

UrQuan · August 2016

By the way, while a lot of the posts here (mine included) have been critical of you @LuxLunae I want to commend you for inviting such criticism and for the mature way that you've handled it so far. It seems like you genuinely want to know if you're doing things wrong, and what you can do better, and that's a good attitude to have. Threads like this are usually just the OP wanting everyone to say to him "wow, yeah, those other people suck but you're awesome" and they usually go badly sideways when people criticize the OP.

Aurielle · August 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

By the way, while a lot of the posts here (mine included) have been critical of you @LuxLunae I want to commend you for inviting such criticism and for the mature way that you've handled it so far. It seems like you genuinely want to know if you're doing things wrong, and what you can do better, and that's a good attitude to have. Threads like this are usually just the OP wanting everyone to say to him "wow, yeah, those other people suck but you're awesome" and they usually go badly sideways when people criticize the OP.

Yeah, kudos to that. I feel like I may have been a little harsh in my post, but it REALLY rubs me the wrong way when I see people being jerks and pointing fingers in group chat when the midden hits the windmill. Some of the most entertaining group runs I've ever been involved in featured plenty of wipes and mistakes. What made the difference is that we were all being respectful to one another, trying to figure out WHY we were failing, and not raging at one another because we were failing. A little patience is always required, even more so in PUGs.

But still, he does seem to be taking the advice to heart, so that's good to see.

Smasherx74 · August 2016

You have 14k health, did literally no dps. You were just standing around, wtf did you expect?

curlyqloub14_ESO · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

How can I increase my DPS?

This may be harsh, but after seeing some of your responses to other people, where you say "yeah I did that but it's b/c so and so did this"..

Others have already given good advice on skills, food, etc. and that's all good - but it won't get your dps any higher when you spend half the fight standing around doing nothing. There is no DPS at all when you're not fighting. You should be starting your attacks the same time the tank pulls. If tank is having a hard time with aggro, give him a one or two-second lead, but there should be no reason to wait any more time than that. Quit screwing around checking your bags and watching the other party members fight, and start helping them out. And yeah, way more AoE, way less light attacks.

You have no place blaming anyone else in the group until you fix your own shortcomings.

idk · August 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

By the way, while a lot of the posts here (mine included) have been critical of you @LuxLunae I want to commend you for inviting such criticism and for the mature way that you've handled it so far. It seems like you genuinely want to know if you're doing things wrong, and what you can do better, and that's a good attitude to have. Threads like this are usually just the OP wanting everyone to say to him "wow, yeah, those other people suck but you're awesome" and they usually go badly sideways when people criticize the OP.

As far as that goes, good feedback has also been posted. Think about the trolling that could have occured.

Everyone starts somewhere and looking for information on game play is a great way to get started.

UrQuan · August 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

By the way, while a lot of the posts here (mine included) have been critical of you @LuxLunae I want to commend you for inviting such criticism and for the mature way that you've handled it so far. It seems like you genuinely want to know if you're doing things wrong, and what you can do better, and that's a good attitude to have. Threads like this are usually just the OP wanting everyone to say to him "wow, yeah, those other people suck but you're awesome" and they usually go badly sideways when people criticize the OP.

As far as that goes, good feedback has also been posted. Think about the trolling that could have occured.

Everyone starts somewhere and looking for information on game play is a great way to get started.

That's true - the people responding could have been real jerks about it rather than being as constructive as they've been (at least I think the vast majority of posts in this thread have been constructive). It's nice to see that too. To be honest this entire thread is much more mature than I expected it to be, and that makes me happy.

Smasherx74 · August 2016

@Luxluane

This was hard af to watch.... you are complaining about this guy not being good enough or what not, and you're the one failing to do enough DPS.... Unbelievable you made this thread asking what went wrong lol.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

I've been thinking about converting my Templar into a Magika tank. I am trying to get 24 H 20 M and 17 S. What I want to try is use ophidian set to restore the Stam when I keep spamming magic jabs and magic shield.

Well, not much I can add that hasn't been said above, but, this caught my attention. The sad fact is a hybrid build doesn't work in high level vet content. I know, I fought tooth and nail to keep my hybrid till I embarrassed myself in vWGT, (before nerfs), with some very good players in my guild. Lol.. I sucked so bad!! My DPS was about as low as whats in the vid. So, I went all one way, in my case, going full stam sorc, I redid my gear, redid my CP points, and now 45-75k burst dmg and 15-25k sustained dmg is the norm.
Also, learning how skills work together and how to maximize DPS with swapping between bars and knowing what will proc what is important. Deltia, Fengrush, and others have great videos on YouTube to help learn this.
With this said, I to only watched about half of vid, (as it brought back nightmares of some of my runs..lol), and truth is, yes, whole group was at fault. Biggie no-no's here. Looting, typing, pulling the "Leroy Jenkins" move, etc. But mostly for me is, DPS must do Rez's. Healers and tanks should be the last ones to get others up. That is your DPS's job, and you HAVE to get a fallen member up asap..
Thats my two septims.. Hope it helped. Good luck and Happy Hunting!
Huzzah!

UrQuan · August 2016

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

But mostly for me is, DPS must do Rez's. Healers and tanks should be the last ones to get others up. That is your DPS's job, and you HAVE to get a fallen member up asap..

Oh yeah, that's one of my biggest pet peeves @wenchmore420b14_ESO - when people expect the healer to rez anyone who's dead. It's not quite as bad when the tank has to do it, as they can often manage to hold the boss' aggro while doing it and survive (depending on their class and build - a DK who pops Magma Armour is the best example of being able to do this), but still it should always be a DPS who resurrects a fallen party member unless there's a good reason why it can't be.

If someone dies it's the job of any surviving DPS to rez them.
If for whatever reason this isn't possible, it's the job of the tank to rez them.
If for whatever reason that isn't possible either, then and only then is it the job of the healer to rez them.

If the healer is busy resurrecting someone then even if they threw out some HoTs first, they aren't able to react to any damage spikes and keep other people alive. If the tank is busy resurrecting someone then they can't dynamically control the fight.

LuxLunae · August 2016

You guys were right, as luck would have it, vaults of madness became the silver pledge, once I ditched the light and heavy attacks. We breezed through the dungeon easily with no problems whatsoever. Trash mobs dropped like raindrops and bosses took less than a minute.. I am uploading that video which is shorter. If you still see anything where I can approve on, I would be happy to hear.

Tonnopesce · August 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

2. The wraith boss has a powerful attack and he's been known to one shot people out of nowhere. He just does that sort of thing.

The first boss in VoM links a beam to one person, and that person takes all his damage instead. When he links, cease dps and heal up.

Lol i cant wait to see vet VoM i never noticed this mechanic...

UrQuan · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

You guys were right, as luck would have it, vaults of madness became the silver pledge, once I ditched the light and heavy attacks. We breezed through the dungeon easily with no problems whatsoever. Trash mobs dropped like raindrops and bosses took less than a minute.. I am uploading that video which is shorter. If you still see anything where I can approve on, I would be happy to hear.

Yay! Success coming from mature forum discussions!

Robbmrp · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

You guys were right, as luck would have it, vaults of madness became the silver pledge, once I ditched the light and heavy attacks. We breezed through the dungeon easily with no problems whatsoever. Trash mobs dropped like raindrops and bosses took less than a minute.. I am uploading that video which is shorter. If you still see anything where I can approve on, I would be happy to hear.

Great to hear and congrats on the clear!

Cryptical · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

You guys were right, as luck would have it, vaults of madness became the silver pledge, once I ditched the light and heavy attacks. We breezed through the dungeon easily with no problems whatsoever. Trash mobs dropped like raindrops and bosses took less than a minute.. I am uploading that video which is shorter. If you still see anything where I can approve on, I would be happy to hear.

s7732425ub17_ESO · August 2016

From the video, it looks like everyone in the group is very inexperienced. You need to run lots more dungeons. Practice, practice, practice. You also need practice soloing difficult content- go run normal Maelstrom, and go try to solo the Craglorn delves. If you cannot do this and cannot figure out how to do this, you won't really get far doing any of the hard content in this game.

(Also, your camera usage is extremely frustrating!)

yttoks · August 2016

Lots of good responses, but I'll add that you are spending way too much time on that bow. As a Stamplar, that should really just be a utility bar. It's good for AoE/DoT's, but I don't think you'll reach potential trying to use it as your main DPS.

I run a 2H/Bow, so not very familiar with DW abilities. You should be on that most of the time with whatever DW abilities yield good DPS. But your spam ability with a Stamplar will always be jabs. Didn't really see any jabs, although I didn't watch the whole thing so I might have missed it.

Take a look at binding javelin. That's a very good skill to have on your bar as well (an awesome skill when you combine it with a gap closer - binding javelin>volley>gap close is a very handy combo for PvE). Bow should be for the opening (snipes and DoT), and to refresh DoT's as needed, rebuff, etc. A Stamplar shouldn't be on bow for extended periods after the fight starts. At least that's not how I play it. Maybe it is workable with the right setup, but I think a lot of people would agree that you will sacrifice DPS that way.

Class skills and Weapons skills (DW or 2H) should account for most of your stam output in most situations on a stamplar. My 1/2 cent....

LuxLunae · August 2016

Ok here is the updated video with the tips you guys gave me...Do you see where I can get some improvements at? I still am overusing that trap move though that's a hard habit to get rid of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSPJBJSSLbo&feature=youtu.be

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · August 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

From what I saw there were quite a few things that caused the issue, it wasn't just one person, it was the whole group.

1- Donte(you maybe?) ran the first half of the group with no food buff. Was too busy worrying about putting DPS stats in chat, talking to someone outside the dungeon and looting than making sure all enemies were dead first and then doing such.

2- Inexperienced Tank maybe who isn't rezzing while lone healer was trying to keep him alive. DPS got one shotted at the first of the fight.

3- Pulling things when people aren't ready. Last boss fought clearly the healer wasn't ready as they were immediately wiped.

4- Whole group not experienced with the dungeon mechanics.

Things everyone could have done better:
1- Had more health, it's hard to survive one shots in dungeons with less than 21k health unless your perma-blocking and casting or have a shield up at all times.

2- Kill everything before looting.

3- Stop worrying about DPS on anything other than main boss fights and only after everything's dead. What good does it do to post your DPS half way through clearing the mobs.

4- Everyone should help Rez other players. It's not a 1 person job. If there's just 2 people left and ones a healer, the non healer needs to rez others so the healer can keep them alive.

All of those things will help everyone contribute to a successful dungeon run.

Pretty much all this^,adding that on that last boss 2 people died fast because they stood in the bridge which lit on fire and the nail in the coffin for the 1st one who drop group was when the boss was pulled again when you guys where rezzing.Clearly it wasn't you because you were a ghost by that time.

wayfarerx · August 2016

LuxLunae wrote: »

Ok here is the updated video with the tips you guys gave me...Do you see where I can get some improvements at? I still am overusing that trap move though that's a hard habit to get rid of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSPJBJSSLbo&feature=youtu.be

Well that was obviously much better

Keep jabbing down those packs of trash, good stuff!

STOP RUNNING OUT IN FRONT OF THE TANK.

Nothing wrong with trap beast, it's a great skill for stam DPS, just try not to overuse it.

What you need now is to work on your rotation, get your DOTs up before going into your main jabs spamming. Also work on your animation cancelling and light attack weaving, you need to weave in light attacks as DPS to keep your ultimate regen up.

Much improved though, good job!

PS: stop linking your DPS. Unless that group is your friends and you're trying to help each other improve it just annoys everyone else.

Reorx_Holybeard · August 2016

I didn't see it mentioned explicitly but zoom/scroll out your camera more...ideally as much as possible. This gives you *much* more spacial awareness and ability to react better to red zones and mobs power attacking you from behind. Also gives you a better idea of the mob placement so you can get better positioning on your jabs/AoE to hit more things. Further, it lets you keep track of your group and the boss's special attacks meaning you can often start moving *before* you actually need to.

Even in your last video you can barely see your feet meaning you don't know exactly what you're standing in or what is behind you. Keep on learning though!

Joy_Division · August 2016

In general, if someone if going to talk like they are experts and elite players, they better be able to walk the walk. No offense, but you demonstrated the opposite of that in these 9 minutes. Nothing infuriates me more and prompts people to quit than know-it-alls who can't even accomplish basic stuff like having food ready, using AoE in trash pulls, actually DPSing stuff rather than looting/typing in party chat, etc.

For the last fight, not everyone was ready when the boss got pulled and two players were insta-killed on the bridge. If you are moving around and have the appearance of not being AFK, it is incredibly frustrating on a ready check not to respond. That's probably why the tank got impatient and pulled. I'm not exactly sure what kind of DPS rotation was being pulled there with all those basic attacks except it was not good or even average DPS.

I can tolerate wipes - and be fairly patient about it - but I will not abide rude/condescending chat, especially from someone who doesn't even look like they care or are invested, to say nothing about not being a great player. I would guess that is why those 2 players left.

In general it doesn't look like any of the members were very experienced or there was a lot of cohesion. It's hard to put blame on one thing or one person. With inexperienced groups, it is all the more important to have cordial and productive conversations and at least give off the impression that people are interested in playing and having a good time, since it is from that environment that friendships are formed, people exchange ideas, more willing to offer advice/tips to be better, and shy/inexperienced people are more apt to open up and ask about fights they may not be familiar.

In short, I'd say a less aggressive tone in party chat and at least appearing as if you are actually invested in finishing the dungeon would go a long way.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · August 2016

Much better with new vid. As mentioned, zoom out more.
Also, if you are wanting to make dungeon delving your main stay, get TeamSpeak. To talk to your group mates live is so important. Today before work, ran vCradle of Shadows, and was thought of this thread, and how we never would have done it as easy as we did without TeamSpeak.. Just a thought..:)
Huzzah!

Bluepitbull13 · August 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

In general, if someone if going to talk like they are experts and elite players, they better be able to walk the walk. No offense, but you demonstrated the opposite of that in these 9 minutes. Nothing infuriates me more and prompts people to quit than know-it-alls who can't even accomplish basic stuff like having food ready, using AoE in trash pulls, actually DPSing stuff rather than looting/typing in party chat, etc.

For the last fight, not everyone was ready when the boss got pulled and two players were insta-killed on the bridge. If you are moving around and have the appearance of not being AFK, it is incredibly frustrating on a ready check not to respond. That's probably why the tank got impatient and pulled. I'm not exactly sure what kind of DPS rotation was being pulled there with all those basic attacks except it was not good or even average DPS.

I can tolerate wipes - and be fairly patient about it - but I will not abide rude/condescending chat, especially from someone who doesn't even look like they care or are invested, to say nothing about not being a great player. I would guess that is why those 2 players left.

In general it doesn't look like any of the members were very experienced or there was a lot of cohesion. It's hard to put blame on one thing or one person. With inexperienced groups, it is all the more important to have cordial and productive conversations and at least give off the impression that people are interested in playing and having a good time, since it is from that environment that friendships are formed, people exchange ideas, more willing to offer advice/tips to be better, and shy/inexperienced people are more apt to open up and ask about fights they may not be familiar.

In short, I'd say a less aggressive tone in party chat and at least appearing as if you are actually invested in finishing the dungeon would go a long way.

Flameheart · August 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

2. The wraith boss has a powerful attack and he's been known to one shot people out of nowhere. He just does that sort of thing.

The first boss in VoM links a beam to one person, and that person takes all his damage instead. When he links, cease dps and heal up.

Exactly. In the past I needed a while to get that, too, because it's pretty hard to detect, visualwise and debuffwise, because things happen very fast.

Either you counter that by the method in the quoted post, or you burn him down with insane dps before he is even able to do this move (I am pretty sure this special attack is time related). The second option is usually no good advice for mixed pugs, it has a high chance to fail.

VoM in general...I love this instance and can't wait for the upcoming veteran version. To be honest...I prefer to do this instance with dps weak PUGs, because otherwise you won't see this visually amazing special move from the last boss, where he shatters the cathedral windows for a huge AoE damage blast.

Concerning the first video (and glad to see that things changed in the second video)...it's somewhat ridiculous to post and compare dps values, which are so laughable low, especially for AoE dps, that I would never dare to post them myself. Far too much "looking cool while moving" and light and heavy attacks, far too less intelligent moving like moving as a group, avoiding inc damage or staying in healer's heal radius and far too less use of real AoE damage or single target spam skills.

Values of 30k+ dps - even for trash with lots of archers and casters and without a DK tank pulling the mess together with chains - are a good measure to aim for pure trash and AoE fights. If things are set up more perfectly and you have the right class, you will see 50k+ and sometimes even 100k+ AoE dps values with a magicka NB or magicka DK using an ultimate and having maxed CPs and golden gear.

Mojmir · August 2016

The same that make's every party fail:no alcohol

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · August 2016

simple answer is, u where all more intreseted in ur self's and not working as a unit, some here have said ur dps is low and ur not using aoe's and it is, but that can be over come, by again working as a unit, even a group with really low dps can do wonders if they work together

Dubhliam · August 2016

I only watched 3 minutes of the video.

It is a collective lack of knowledge, also known as a PUG (players underperforming greatly).

The tank is to squishy and does not root the pull, the healer does not heal, and you are too busy doing other stuff before finally going into the fight only to spam a single target skill on a trash pull.
You even have two bow area skills on your bar, but you choose to use poison arrow.

This video reminds me it was a good idea not to play with PUGs anymore.

EDIT: tank and healer are both total noobs.