ESO+ and downtime

Asata · August 2016

Well, I canceled my sub personally. Not really going to pay to play a game that I can't play at least 4 days a month guaranteed, which seems to be double that lately. If enough people get fed up and start canceling maybe they'll get the hint.

Wow · August 2016

With this, we are reaching the point where whole August was full of "extended", "emergency" or "unscheduled" maintenances. All we 'need' now is 29/30th August maintenance to also be screwed up and we can rename August to Failgust in ESO calendar.

Kind of called it idkhowmany hours ago http://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4z04tl/how_many_hours_do_you_think_it_will_take_for_na/

Here is a little history lesson for people who dont know whats been going on for last month....:

6th of August https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/283402/login-issues-timeout Login Timeout

7th of August https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/283640/zos-eu-server-login-failed Login Timeout this time on EU server (totally not expected right?)

8th of August https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3246003/#Comment_3246003 Extended NA Maintenance taking twice much time as EU maintenance

15th of August 2.5.7 Patch Maintenance also takes twice as much time on NA than it took for EU

16th of August https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285327/servers-down Oh look! Its "login timeout" again! Who would think...

22th August https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3286968/#Comment_3286968 Again extended maintenance for both EU and NA servers with estimated downtime 12 hours.

Sure we don't deserve any ESO+ daytime refund, that's what ToS we signed about. . But how about some good gesture towards your customers

maybe 1-2 days of ESO+ refund, that wouldn't hurt

Solariken · August 2016

Ackwalan wrote: »

A subscriber pays about 2 cents a minute for ESO+.

Actually monthly subbers pay about $0.0003472222222 per minute. So 12 hours of unplanned downtime is about $ .25 that ZOS bleeds from each player. If they have, say a million subs, it's about $250,000 worth of players' money they are wasting.

We understand that maintenance is a necessary evil, but we've had a few major crashes in the last month that resulted in huge windows of downtime in addition to regular maintenance. ZOS is on a slippery slope for sure. Get your house in order ZOS or subbers are going to start walking.

Shader_Shibes · August 2016

Wow wrote: »

All we 'need' now is 29/30th August maintenance to also be screwed up and we can rename August to Failgust in ESO calendar.

I'm calling it now. I bet you it will be.

MintyBadger · August 2016

With at least 8 hours of maintenance every Monday, that makes:

8 hours a week lost - thats 416 hours (17.3 days) a year that subscribers are paying for and not being able to play. Now I understand the need for maintenance, we all want a game that works, but many other MMO's manage to do it monthly (and even then not in 8 hour+ sessions) or even less regularly than that.

If you turned up to work every Monday morning and your boss said "Sorry, not wage for your 8 hours work today" how long would you be working there? Of course people want some kind of compensation...they are paying for a service that they are not able to access.

Czirne · August 2016

Asata wrote: »

Well, I canceled my sub personally. Not really going to pay to play a game that I can't play at least 4 days a month guaranteed, which seems to be double that lately. If enough people get fed up and start canceling maybe they'll get the hint.

let me ask you, if Zenimax gave some crowns, or few extra days of eso+ to compensate you for very long downtime, would you cancel your sub? I think not.
And thats exaclty what am i talking about, for all those haters and arguably free to play people that disgaree with me - I believe there is lots of people canceling their sub, and Zenimax is loosing more money by not compensating subscribers than they'd loose by that compensation.

yodased · August 2016

Czirne wrote: »

Asata wrote: »

Well, I canceled my sub personally. Not really going to pay to play a game that I can't play at least 4 days a month guaranteed, which seems to be double that lately. If enough people get fed up and start canceling maybe they'll get the hint.

let me ask you, if Zenimax gave some crowns, or few extra days of eso+ to compensate you for very long downtime, would you cancel your sub? I think not.
And thats exaclty what am i talking about, for all those haters and arguably free to play people that disgaree with me - I believe there is lots of people canceling their sub, and Zenimax is loosing more money by not compensating subscribers than they'd loose by that compensation.

Which is all well and good, but you toss around things like we deserve this. That is the flack you are getting, not the concept of taking care of their customers, but that the customer 'deserves' anything at all from the business.

We don't.

Tavore1138 · August 2016

Rayya_Blackheart wrote: »

ESO+ $15 a month.

15*12 = $180

$180/365 = .49 (rounded) per day of ESO payment

.49/24 = .02 (rounded) per hour

.02/60 = .0003 (infinite threes) per minute.

.0003 * 11hrs (approximate) of downtime.... =.033 cents...

Now seriously, put this into perspective, are you -really- stressing out over 3 and a third cents? Because I have this change jar... if you send me your address, times you'll be home, and your wi-fi password I will gladly get you that 3 and a third cents.

you messed your maths up, you worked out 11 minutes, 11 hours would be 11 * 0.02 or around 22 cents. With the various maintenances and other downtimes that could turn out as high as 1 to 1.5 dollars in the last month or 10% of possible play time.

If you think it is accetable to have any online service with 10% downtime then I have some magic beans to sell you.

MintyBadger · August 2016

Of course customers "deserve" things from businesses...

We deserve/expect good hygiene from food outlets.
We deserve/except good quality in the items we buy.
We deserve/expect good customer service.

Why? Because we "pay" for them. Without customers paying for their services/goods a business is nothing. Unfortunately most businesses nowadays think that its ok to take peoples cash and give crap service, and because more and more people accept this, it's becoming the norm.

Czirne · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Asata wrote: »

Well, I canceled my sub personally. Not really going to pay to play a game that I can't play at least 4 days a month guaranteed, which seems to be double that lately. If enough people get fed up and start canceling maybe they'll get the hint.

let me ask you, if Zenimax gave some crowns, or few extra days of eso+ to compensate you for very long downtime, would you cancel your sub? I think not.
And thats exaclty what am i talking about, for all those haters and arguably free to play people that disgaree with me - I believe there is lots of people canceling their sub, and Zenimax is loosing more money by not compensating subscribers than they'd loose by that compensation.

Which is all well and good, but you toss around things like we deserve this. That is the flack you are getting, not the concept of taking care of their customers, but that the customer 'deserves' anything at all from the business.

We don't.

i see your point, you are right, i said that wrong at first place, my bad. I edited it, hopefuly now its ok.

Kelces · August 2016

I am not a subscriber, but it is not uncommon among MMO games, to compensate unusually long down-times by way of play time credit. This shouldn't be a problem, and I would even consider subscribing too, if this is to be expected.

yodased · August 2016

MintyBadger wrote: »

Of course customers "deserve" things from businesses...

We deserve/expect hope for good hygiene from food outlets.
We deserve/except want good quality in the items we buy.
We deserve/expect would like good customer service.

Why? Because we "pay" for them. Without customers paying for their services/goods a business is nothing. Unfortunately most businesses nowadays think that its ok to take peoples cash and give crap service, and because more and more people accept this, it's becoming the norm.

This is getting a bit out of bounds of a video game forum really, but equating those things is a base level misunderstanding. I am not fundamentally disagreeing with you that a business has its best interest in keeping its customers happy, that is for sure, but saying you deserve good service is like saying I deserve you to be nice to me.

I would really like it if you were nice to me, but I don't deserve it in any way.

MintyBadger · August 2016

Kelces wrote: »

I am not a subscriber, but it is not uncommon among MMO games, to compensate unusually long down-times by way of play time credit. This shouldn't be a problem, and I would even consider subscribing too, if this is to be expected.

Exactly, adding 1 day to peoples ESO+ would go a long way to easing some of the rage, is it really too much to ask for? I've seen it done many times with other MMO's

Odditorium · August 2016

They charge $15 a month instead of $20. Happy now?

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Rayya_Blackheart wrote: »

ESO+ $15 a month.

15*12 = $180

$180/365 = .49 (rounded) per day of ESO payment

.49/24 = .02 (rounded) per hour

.02/60 = .0003 (infinite threes) per minute.

.0003 * 11hrs (approximate) of downtime.... =.033 cents...

Now seriously, put this into perspective, are you -really- stressing out over 3 and a third cents? Because I have this change jar... if you send me your address, times you'll be home, and your wi-fi password I will gladly get you that 3 and a third cents.

you messed your maths up, you worked out 11 minutes, 11 hours would be 11 * 0.02 or around 22 cents. With the various maintenances and other downtimes that could turn out as high as 1 to 1.5 dollars in the last month or 10% of possible play time.

If you think it is accetable to have any online service with 10% downtime then I have some magic beans to sell you.

YOU ARE RIGHT! I HAVE BROUGHT GREAT SHAME TO MYSELF! :'( (seriously though, thanks for pointing that out. My bad) I also never said it was acceptable, I said I wanted wi-fi passwords ^.^

TiberX · August 2016

i can log in now

vamp_emily · August 2016

I really don't agree with the OP on this topic.

But.. I do like free cake

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

TiberX wrote: »

i can log in now

Yeah, looks like EU is up *sigh*

tat2mano · August 2016

He is right about it tho,
i actually made a poll about this.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest

I actually got one day of ESO+ last week as a result from a ticket i made about loosing a lot of ESO+ time with these long down times,
dont think ZoS will be happy me sharing this with you guys but i think you got the right to know ZoS actually does give ESO+ time when you give a good legit complain.

Lyrebon · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

MintyBadger wrote: »

Of course customers "deserve" things from businesses...

We deserve/expect hope for good hygiene from food outlets.
We deserve/except want good quality in the items we buy.
We deserve/expect would like good customer service.

Why? Because we "pay" for them. Without customers paying for their services/goods a business is nothing. Unfortunately most businesses nowadays think that its ok to take peoples cash and give crap service, and because more and more people accept this, it's becoming the norm.

This is getting a bit out of bounds of a video game forum really, but equating those things is a base level misunderstanding. I am not fundamentally disagreeing with you that a business has its best interest in keeping its customers happy, that is for sure, but saying you deserve good service is like saying I deserve you to be nice to me.

I would really like it if you were nice to me, but I don't deserve it in any way.

You can't carte blanche everything that way. Hygiene in food outlets isn't just a desire, it's an expectation not just from a customer viewpoint, but from the risks that badly prepared food, cross-contamination and allergies can cause, which can be as severe as death. If you buy a crappy laptop it's not going to kill you - anaphylaxis, E.Coli and salmonella can. Bad food hygiene can kill, terrible customer service can't... unless a member of staff annoys someone with homicidal tendencies on a bad day.

DaedraPrinceSatan · August 2016

Concerning the actual amount of downtime, I agree with him.

Would be pissed too when having ESO+.

Taternater · August 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

*Another* one of these threads.

yup....

speaking as a human being eso+ subscriber

point 1) the last two weeks the eu servers were up pretty quick, before the na one. i would snigger here but it would be in particularly bad taste given the circumstances.

point 2) i read the tos/eula and understand that zos will do whatever they see fit to do with the servers whenever they like and this is not limited to replacing the hamsters whether they need it or not.

and no i do not feel the need to be reimbursed 40p. whatever next, compensation because i have to stop for a loo break?

You've been in the loo this whole time? What did you eat?

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2016

Czirne wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I understand that maintenances are necesary to keep server runnig as smoothly as possible, and i understand sometimes some unexpected issues pops up and delay whole proces. But I also understand why people are angry and complaining about it here in forums. And some of them have good point. People that are paying mothly subscribtion and have eso+ active loose at least a day of playtime every moth, probably even more.
Is it possible to compensate subscribers with few day eso+? or some crown as a gift? Its the least thing you can to to make people happy and apologize for long maitenance. I really do believe subscribers should get some kind of compensation.

Anyway, to all EU players, have a nice evening, catch a movie or read a book, books are fine.

EDIT: i replace "deserve" with "should get"

No. You take up ESO + knowing full well that there will be down times. Its the nature of MMOs. Get over yoruself.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · August 2016

DarknessShallFall wrote: »

Meh, people always seem to like complaining I noticed, personally I don't care if I loose a day, I just hope they fix the motif drop rate in Gold Coast form the bounty boards, I haven't gotten any over doing 20+ of those quests.

Use this down time to make sacrifices to the RNG gods!!
lol... Huzzah!!

Czirne · August 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I understand that maintenances are necesary to keep server runnig as smoothly as possible, and i understand sometimes some unexpected issues pops up and delay whole proces. But I also understand why people are angry and complaining about it here in forums. And some of them have good point. People that are paying mothly subscribtion and have eso+ active loose at least a day of playtime every moth, probably even more.
Is it possible to compensate subscribers with few day eso+? or some crown as a gift? Its the least thing you can to to make people happy and apologize for long maitenance. I really do believe subscribers should get some kind of compensation.

Anyway, to all EU players, have a nice evening, catch a movie or read a book, books are fine.

EDIT: i replace "deserve" with "should get"

No. You take up ESO + knowing full well that there will be down times. Its the nature of MMOs. Get over yoruself.

Do you play on EU servers with ESO+ active?

Immortal_Dark410 · August 2016

Rayya_Blackheart wrote: »

I vote that the money I'm losing from not playing ESO from my plus sub go towards all you wonderful people that are currently entertaining me ^.^

lol

Immortal_Dark410 · August 2016

Takamoro wrote: »

You can fanboi the comments and rage in the forums every week, or biweekly as the case has recently become...

The fact remains that the server downtime for maintenance is far north of ridiculous. Each downtime has come with it additional downtime or additional bug fixes immediately following for the entire month of August. On top of which, downtimes have been slated to be in excess of 10 hours for some patching that doesn't even crest 200 MB. This points at quite a few problems happening on the developer end of the spectrum to include:

1. Lack of communication between developers resulting in half implimentations.
2. Inadequate testing of systems prior to patching them live.
3. Wishy washy project management that seems scared to confront developers about poor coding.
4. Complete lack of organization on the part of whomever's job it is to make sure these "patch days" go smoothly.

Is there a monetary hit to Zenimax in response to these fledgling mistakes? If not, it'll never change. Is there care enough from Zenimax about this constant debacle to go any further than "I'm sorry, suck it up" to their subscribers? Doesn't seem to be.

So long as it continues you'll have forums rage, and rightly so. All you (generalized) as the free-playing community do by bashing those who are upset is justify ZOS in not fixing the above problems in their infrastructure. Don't kill your own game by turning a blind eye to what's behind the curtain.

a well thought out & thorough post, id have to say your right

jao0199 · August 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

A subscriber pays about 2 cents a minute for ESO+.

Actually monthly subbers pay about $0.0003472222222 per minute. So 12 hours of unplanned downtime is about $ .25 that ZOS bleeds from each player. If they have, say a million subs, it's about $250,000 worth of players' money they are wasting.

We understand that maintenance is a necessary evil, but we've had a few major crashes in the last month that resulted in huge windows of downtime in addition to regular maintenance. ZOS is on a slippery slope for sure. Get your house in order ZOS or subbers are going to start walking.

Its not about the .25$
Its about the all performance/lag issues not fixed.

Saturn · August 2016

I am an ESO+ player, and have been a paying subscriber since launch. I completely disagree with the statement you are making, demanding ESO+ players get compensated. While it is unfortunate that we all lose hours of playtime to maintenance, I do think it is an unavoidable thing that every MMO has. If you have played any other MMO for an extended amount of time you will know that this is just how it is. Server maintenance is something you should expect on a weekly basis when you play an MMO, whether you are a paying subscriber or not, and there is no reason why we should be compensated for what is an integral part of the game's health.

kevlarto_ESO · August 2016

It is what it is, how many hours of unwatched HBO do you pay for, stuff happens, that's life /shrug