Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Sportsmanship is very important, IMO.

But then again, I may be giving them too much credit for self awareness. They may just go 'dang, this is boring, time to go play Overwatch' and never realize that they were instrumental solely to blame for to making it like that for themselves.

Sorry for the edit, but this is what I have been saying the entire time. The problem is though, perception is reality and their perception is it is ok.

If you want to identify the toxic elements of a gaming community, or any community really, look for the word: "just"

it's just a game
it's just an exploit
it's just a teabag
it's just a nightcap

The justification of these behaviors to me is the worst part. When a person tries to explain that to the other side, they are more than likely going to be hit with a major wave of *** and negativity surrounding the person themselves and not the topic at hand. Personal attacks of ones "skill" within video games is a perfect example.

Person 1: You are cheating.
Person 2. (is cheating) Get Gud.

Won't ever change as long as their is no consequence.

That's a fair edit. A different way of saying the same thing, assuredly.

And you're right, too. Especially in regards to the use of certain cheating tools that people have gotten unbanned from using. On EP, especially, this is almost a nightly /zone conversation topic. I'm sure you're aware of why.

They just. He just. She just. It just. No. No. No. It's not 'just'.

Like using racial slurs and then going 'it's just a joke'. They're saying that, and saying 'it's just' because they know the behavior is abhorrent but are trying to minimize it to deflect the negative connotations that go along with it. It's a way of not being responsible (or trying to make oneself not feel responsible) for the negative behavior that they're directly contributing to.

It's never 'just' something. It is what it is. Cheating is cheating, insulting bile is insulting bile, nightcapping is nightcapping. Etcetera.

I try not to get riled about night-capping. There are many reasons to play during what, for me, is sleeping time. I can't really expect people to not play because it's late.

All the other things are the reason I'm never in area chat.

Speaking as someone who's dealt with the raw end of it since PC launch NA, it is one of the most surefire ways to drive absolute droves of players away from a specific campaign. It will kill campaigns dead as doornails in just a few weeks of it.

It is vilified for a reason.

Getting called a cheater gets just as old.

No one in this game seems to have the dignity to lose with a little grace.

I think today it is just a concept, that is not practiced, shame really I live by the old gamer codes that everyone kind of followed in the early days of gaming, most were common sense rules we respected each other and treated each other in a way we would like to be treated in game and so forth.


There has been a few gamer magazine articles written about the changing, forums and attitudes in today's games, the rudeness, personal attacks and even real life threats to fellow players and developers, this is something that has just come around in the last few years, not sure if it is a sign of the times, the internet has grown and gives us that anaonymity, that we hide behind I guess a lot people act out knowing in most cases there is no repercussions for their actions, other than getting banned. Today no one seems to respect anyone's opinion if they differ from their own, sad really we are on this mud ball together, playing games we enjoy around others that enjoy the same thing, why we have this abuse is just absurd.

It's not just gaming, read any thread about a movie or music and politics, and it is cut throat and down right nasty name calling. I think it goes beyond in game etiquette to some level of failure in todays society.

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I think today it is just a concept, that is not practiced, shame really I live by the old gamer codes that everyone kind of followed in the early days of gaming, most were common sense rules we respected each other and treated each other in a way we would like to be treated in game and so forth.


There has been a few gamer magazine articles written about the changing, forums and attitudes in today's games, the rudeness, personal attacks and even real life threats to fellow players and developers, this is something that has just come around in the last few years, not sure if it is a sign of the times, the internet has grown and gives us that anaonymity, that we hide behind I guess a lot people act out knowing in most cases there is no repercussions for their actions, other than getting banned. Today no one seems to respect anyone's opinion if they differ from their own, sad really we are on this mud ball together, playing games we enjoy around others that enjoy the same thing, why we have this abuse is just absurd.

It's not just gaming, read any thread about a movie or music and politics, and it is cut throat and down right nasty name calling.

I would venture to guess a large part of the change comes from online gaming's popularity. It used to be a small group on the fringe of society so everyone had that in common at the end of the day. Now it is the norm, so we end up with the spectrum of society. Sadly as human we are wired to remember bad events over positive ones due to that being advantageous from a survival standpoint. Perhaps as time progresses the budding internet with it's facades of anonymity will give way and yield to the ideas of self creation and expression.

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Really? No one?

you know what i meant. its a rare trait and "you cheated" is much more common than "gg"

I know, I'm just salty the servers are down. It's my birthday damnit, I expect, deserve, demand and am entitled to play.

/wordsidontuse

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Do you know how much *** professional atheletes talk to each other during games? We just don't get to hear it on tv. Probably not in the Olympics as much but NBA, NFL etc... It is not always friendly.

Edit: Also just look at the doping in MLB, various Olympic atheletes and other professional sports. Let us not pretend that sportsmanship is any more prevalent in the real world then on the virtual world. People would cheat even more than they do in professional sports if it was easier to get away with it.

So you're suggesting we should not extol a better form of behavior, that in fact a complete lack of class is a good thing? Hmm.

No, and nowhere did I say that. I just don't think we should pretend like sportsmanship abounds everywhere but video games. We can strive to be better without being naive about reality.

Yes it's relevant.

The offers of free gear to newbies, the answering of questions in chat.

For that matter the use of ignore to the point where I saw someone trying to be poop in chat the other day and apparently I was the only one who saw it. The speaker was clearly hoping/expecting a response, but apparently had previously been multi-ignored and never knew it.

I strive to be as sportsman-like as possible. For me, in addition to the obvious ToS violations (cheating, macros, exploits) that means no trash talking or corpse defiling and I hope I convey this attitude to the folks running in my groups.

In real life, the consequences of cheating/exploitation could be loss of employment, fines, jail time, etc. In competition, either virtual or physical, the most severe consequence is to be removed from completion for short term (e.g. penalty box) or long term (e.g. banned from sport for life) with a little crossover in the case of professional/paid competitors. If you are not interested in the long term health of the competition, it probably matters very little to you. I consider myself to be a long term player, so to cheat, exploit, or disrespect other players would conflict with having challenging, friendly, long term competition.

This game runs on computing machines, but the environment (mechanical, un-emotional, non-biased) cannot completely overcome the inherent human aspects. It is an environment conceived by people, designed by people, built by people, tested by people (well, tested by semi-intelligent chimps at least ) and played by people and there will always be flaws and inconsistencies. As in real life sports, it it is partially up to the participants themselves to help keep the competition as fair as possible; the "policing" of the game starts with self-policing.

(Good topic, @NBrookus. I appreciate the "reroll for balance", but I do miss you in TeamSpeak )

I think the concept of sportsmanship will rear it's head when One Tamriel comes around and you have to share space with those that aren't.

I practice good sportsmanship because that's how I am. Sometimes it's actually more fun (and effective) to reply nicely to rage tells. It tends to make small-minded folk rage even harder. ;P

I get hate tells for killing people in IC who are just there to pve. They probably think I have bad sportsmanship but basically all I do I this game is a little IC PvP a couple of times a week. What else am I going to do besides kill them?

Recently I have been very unsportsmanshiplike. I think it is out of frustration.

On one side of the map you have poplock vs 2 bars, on the other side of the map you have an alliance trying to take your keeps when your alliance has been trying to dethrone.

Recently I t-bagged 5 players. A few EP and a few AD. Then I t-bagged a ganker that ganked my stones. I went back and got stones back and t-bagged him.

I don't know if it is because I get t-bagged all the time and I feel I need to do it, or if it is out of frustration.

Just the other day I announced in zone chat that I was going to t-bag every single EP. I never did but really wanted too.

vamp_emily wrote: »

Recently I have been very unsportsmanshiplike. I think it is out of frustration.

On one side of the map you have poplock vs 2 bars, on the other side of the map you have an alliance trying to take your keeps when your alliance has been trying to dethrone.

Recently I t-bagged 5 players. A few EP and a few AD. Then I t-bagged a ganker that ganked my stones. I went back and got stones back and t-bagged him.

I don't know if it is because I get t-bagged all the time and I feel I need to do it, or if it is out of frustration.

Just the other day I announced in zone chat that I was going to t-bag everyone single EP. I never did but really wanted too.

It's ok.

There are times I really want to t-bag all of EP, too.

We've all been there.

It's overcoming those frustrations that defines us.