Terribly "hard" COS final boss... Why did ZOS go overboard with AOE for the sake of making it "hard"

Smasherx74 · August 2016

I'm going to make a rant.

So lets get one thing straight, Vet COS on hardmode at the final spider fight, is not "hard" its just very stupid. Let me explain, at first you think oh hey this boss is pretty cool/fun, some heavy adds spawning, there is different Magicka/Stam/health orbs everywhere taking your resources/hp. It's pretty fun, but the only absolutely and utterly *** asepct of it is the RNG maze navigation part. I'm sorry but I just spent nearly a *** hour trying to finish the last boss with a PUG. If a group of all v160+ players cannot get Hardmode done and barely get regular mode done, ALL BECAUSE of the excessive AOE and RNG sections, I just don't find that competitive, hard, difficult, whatever you want to call it. I find it *** stupid, it's not even tedious, it's just a literal rng stupidity. I'd rather waste a million AP trying to get Kena helm, I don't want a dungeon that is so RNG that I'm going to be forced to get a max cp group each time it becomes a pledge just to finish the damn thing. ZOS, reconsider your final boss on COS, either remove the adds from the maze. That's all I'm asking for, just lessen the god damn RNG in a dungeon that is going to be played by a lot of people. But I don't care, you' guys are the ones who will see excessive complaints and tickets being made over feuds with PUGs over this stupid ass dungeon. I hope you do leave it like it is, just so you can get the complaints THAT I KNOW YOU WILL GET in direct relation to this dungeon. REMOVE THE RNG MAZE, simple as that. Nobody likes it, it's not hard, it's not difficult, it's *** STUPID, ITS *** RANDOM, IT MAKES PEOPLE HAVE TO RELY ON THIRD PARTY ADDONS like minimaps to get done properly. Yeah, community talk *** "oh this is L2P issue you just suck", well I completed the *** dungeon with a PUG, and I've played a hell of a lot more competitive/difficult games than a Elder Scrolls MMO (lol), but this... this right is extraordinarily ***. I honestly can't believe you guys released this as a DLC, just two dungeons and a personality.

With that being said.... this is what I think of COS....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nhjppiu-q4

DaFatCookie · August 2016

The group invited you to a Teamspeak(TS) for the communication on the boss you were the only one having troubles with her "shadow sense" ability, you don't need a maxed out cp group I've done it with a group of 200+ we used TS to communicate to get it done. I do agree with you on the part of the maze with the doors being random which i dislike since it gets me and and a mate overwhelmed by the adds when we have to go around.

Mojmir · August 2016

Is her "spike phase" bugged for anyone else? First one we can Dodge but second has no visual.also the lights from atros a hard to pick up,it's like werewolves bite/feed targeting.

Smasherx74 · August 2016

DaFatCookie wrote: »

The group invited you to a Teamspeak(TS) for the communication on the boss you were the only one having troubles with her "shadow sense" ability, you don't need a maxed out cp group I've done it with a group of 200+ we used TS to communicate to get it done. I do agree with you on the part of the maze with the doors being random which i dislike since it gets me and and a mate overwhelmed by the adds when we have to go around.

Lol, I still don't understand how to avoid those ground spears...

you told me to stand in the green AOE, I did that. Someone in the zone chat said you have to roll, but I did that the first few times before you told me to stay still and wait for the spider to drop.

I haven't spent an hour on a dungeon/final TG trial boss in a long time. That's a very frustrating situation, and seeing as how that dungeon went tonight. I just can't imagine the hell im going to go through in the future with PUGs trying to get the pledge done on hardmode.

Rayya_Blackheart · August 2016

Purge helps a lot. I ran efficient purge which helped with the slow with the adds and the poison for that unsuspecting trap that pops up.

I'm not 100% certain, because we always had the Atro light with us, but I think the Braziers helps reduce the mob spawn. I have to test it more to find out

Personally, I like the dungeon.

DaFatCookie · August 2016

With the spikes soon as Velidreth says "stop moving" just stand still since add will stop attacking as u stand on the green AOE you are given(will be right below you)you'll be safe but if you were moving as she was climbing you will get hurt and when the second time arrives look at the boss on the wall soon as she moves to get down dodge roll it.

Smasherx74 · August 2016

DaFatCookie wrote: »

With the spikes soon as Velidreth says "stop moving" just stand still since add will stop attacking as u stand on the green AOE you are given(will be right below you)you'll be safe but if you were moving as she was climbing you will get hurt and when the second time arrives look at the boss on the wall soon as she moves to get down dodge roll it.

I guess I was dodging too early the second/third/fourth time after realizing it was a 1 hit ko.

After I knew to stay still I just wasn't moving.

Still, this dungeon is going to be absolute and utter *** with real PUGS, not people who know the dungeon or have decent builds. My main concern is a few days from now and I have to complete this as my gold pledge. Luckily today I did it simply for the content. I really just don't want this dungeon in the rotation, it's just going to be a headache getting a good pug together.

The only reason why we got through it today is because you were a really good healer, and the tank was decent. Our DPS was alright but that boss took way too long to finish off because of the adds and phases. Just a ridiculously stupid fight imo.

I'd rather play battletoads for the snes if you get the reference.

ValkynSketha · August 2016

Spoiler alert
.
.
As for the spikes when she go up, and hearing her saying don't move a muscle, you need to stand still for first spike, then either look at her up when she rises her hand or when you hear rock falling sound dodge quickly this way you will not get any damage from the spikes.

DaFatCookie · August 2016

I was the tank not healer, when she grabs people to eat their ults i can't control that with my taunt I literally have to be on the boss I can't aggro the adds or it overwhelms me since if I don't block the boss her heavy attack it will kill me in one hit and if someone dies I have to be on boss in order to stop her from knocking off people reviving not only that she has big attacks since I'm taking the aggro it's not faced to the team

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

I was wondering how long it would take for some puglord to rage qq over new content.

Scaling wrecked this game. So did giving pugs access to everything.

Tonnopesce · August 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Is her "spike phase" bugged for anyone else? First one we can Dodge but second has no visual.also the lights from atros a hard to pick up,it's like werewolves bite/feed targeting.

I don't know if is buggy or not but is the only issue i have in this dungeon, as a tank sometimes i rolldoge and hits me for 90% of the life sometimes i block and i survive with 50% of the helathbar and sometimes is a one-shot for50+k damage i dont get it is strage.

In the madze i never had an issue, i have a strage sixt sense in there and i never found a closer door...

Mojmir · August 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Is her "spike phase" bugged for anyone else? First one we can Dodge but second has no visual.also the lights from atros a hard to pick up,it's like werewolves bite/feed targeting.

I don't know if is buggy or not but is the only issue i have in this dungeon, as a tank sometimes i rolldoge and hits me for 90% of the life sometimes i block and i survive with 50% of the helathbar and sometimes is a one-shot for50+k damage i dont get it is strage.

In the madze i never had an issue, i have a strage sixt sense in there and i never found a closer door...

The maze is easy,if you have a light. The targeting for it is iffy. As for the previous comment about ultimate drain,I just keep mine empty.

Tonnopesce · August 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Is her "spike phase" bugged for anyone else? First one we can Dodge but second has no visual.also the lights from atros a hard to pick up,it's like werewolves bite/feed targeting.

I don't know if is buggy or not but is the only issue i have in this dungeon, as a tank sometimes i rolldoge and hits me for 90% of the life sometimes i block and i survive with 50% of the helathbar and sometimes is a one-shot for50+k damage i dont get it is strage.

In the madze i never had an issue, i have a strage sixt sense in there and i never found a closer door...

The maze is easy,if you have a light. The targeting for it is iffy. As for the previous comment about ultimate drain,I just keep mine empty.

Best is to let the tank and the healer take the atronach light.
The heal can easily overheal the damage in the madze and the tank group will not have issues if is the tank taking all the damage.

I keep a low cost ultimate on only because as a dk tank sometimes i desperatly need to proc the battle roar.
If you do a wrong move the boss + one Green orb can erease 20+ k stamina and it can be an issue.

Vipstaakki · August 2016

You asked for hard content. Now deal with it.

Liofa · August 2016

It is easy . Stop wanting nerf to hard content . Here is how you avoid spike : You stay still whether you see the circle or not . After you survive that , continue to stay still . Ground will shake and that is the time you need to roll . Watch the ground . When it shakes , roll . You need to do it really fast .

Just because you don't know mechanics , you ask for a nerf . It is been our less than a week and lots of nerf dungeons threads . Please . Put some effort into it .

Mojmir · August 2016

You actually can ignore most of the adds in the maze, actually best way through.

Tonnopesce · August 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

You actually can ignore most of the adds in the maze, actually best way through.

You actually NEED to ignore all the adds in the madze.

Mojmir · August 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

You actually can ignore most of the adds in the maze, actually best way through.

You actually NEED to ignore all the adds in the madze.

For me it wasn't an issue,I used crippling grasp on them to speed my way through.

Wolfchild07 · August 2016

The actual issue I have with the dungeons is the difference in difficulty between all the vet dungeons (or I guess all the normal dungeons too).

Just yesterday I queued with a group for random vet. First we got ICP. Newer dungeons being what they are, with bullet sponges galore, it took a while just to get through a few trash mobs. We knew we weren't going to get very far, so instead we decided to leave and re-queue.

2nd time we got Ruins of Marzipan. Yes, marzipan, ok? :P We gave it a go, but again it was a bit much for our group, so we just disbanded and went our separate ways.

Other games have 3 levels of difficulty for dungeons. ESO is missing the third. The harder/newer vet dungeons need to be toned down so that once you hit vet you can actually queue solo or with a group at CP 10 for random vet and be able to get through it.

Add nightmare with gold drops and ludicrous difficulty! Implement a dungeon leaderboard for extra goodies for those that achieve greatness!

Dromede · August 2016

It wss challenging, but not overwhelmingly difficult. Did vet mode, not hard version, and completed it after 4 wipes only

Yes, TS is a must. Coordination is required. In the end, the atronach's light was picked up by people who knew the map - a healer and a dps instead of healer and tank.

Please do not ask for nerfs after the first try. Noone still had a chance to memorize mechanics properly, and these things take practice and time.

Completing achievements will be a bi***, it didn't seem easy, but with practice we'll get there.

And btw, normal version is a faceroll for both new dungeons. Did you have a chance to start with them instead to learn mechanics?

Tonnopesce · August 2016

Second run in COS was super easy we had no dead till the last boss where we had some issues.
I'm not in an OP pve guild and the people with who i run the dungeons are not the best around (myself included).

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

The actual issue I have with the dungeons is the difference in difficulty between all the vet dungeons (or I guess all the normal dungeons too).

Just yesterday I queued with a group for random vet. First we got ICP. Newer dungeons being what they are, with bullet sponges galore, it took a while just to get through a few trash mobs. We knew we weren't going to get very far, so instead we decided to leave and re-queue.

2nd time we got Ruins of Marzipan. Yes, marzipan, ok? :P We gave it a go, but again it was a bit much for our group, so we just disbanded and went our separate ways.

Other games have 3 levels of difficulty for dungeons. ESO is missing the third. The harder/newer vet dungeons need to be toned down so that once you hit vet you can actually queue solo or with a group at CP 10 for random vet and be able to get through it.

Add nightmare with gold drops and ludicrous difficulty! Implement a dungeon leaderboard for extra goodies for those that achieve greatness!

You can't ask to nerf a NEW dungeon especially if you do it in a pug group , 50% of the people don't bother to go in youtube to check the pros video in order to learn how to do it.
But then they complain if they cant faceroll the content, you are talking of probably the only tree "hard" dungeon left in the game , please L2P

Transairion · August 2016

HM CoS was my first DLC dungeon and the earlier fights were straightforward enough, but I did find HM Velidreth a complete clusterfudge of things happening at once. The maze's random this-exit-is-open-the-rest-are-closed mechanic especially seems unnecessary (if you go one wrong direction you're basically screwed), and the most annoying part of the fight was all the resource-draining AOE's that just float around and can't be interacted with. Would've much preferred ground circles than the puffballs.

Charging/Retreating Manuever (PvP skill) seems practically a requirement for current maze, I'd prefer they tone down the CC in that part and ease up on the puffballs or make them destroyable rather than just there. The rest of it just seems like mechanics that require practice, the former seem a lot more like RNG that I'd like.

But I'm a filthy noob, what do I know?

code65536 · August 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Is her "spike phase" bugged for anyone else? First one we can Dodge but second has no visual.also the lights from atros a hard to pick up,it's like werewolves bite/feed targeting.

When she climbs up, stop moving.
Wait for the color to change back to normal.
After the screen color changes back to normal, watch your feet very closely.
When you see a puff of dust at your feet, dodge roll.

Yes, there is a (subtle) visual cue for when to dodge roll. It's the puff of dust at your character's feet. Some people will tell you to dodge roll twice after the color normalizes or wait X seconds or something else, but in my experience, those methods won't get you results as easily or as consistently as watching for this visual cue.

Is this visual cue too subtle? Yes. Was this issue brought up as feedback during the first week of the PTS? Yes. Did ZOS do anything about it? I think you know the answer to this one...

Wolfchild07 · August 2016

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Second run in COS was super easy we had no dead till the last boss where we had some issues.
I'm not in an OP pve guild and the people with who i run the dungeons are not the best around (myself included).

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

The actual issue I have with the dungeons is the difference in difficulty between all the vet dungeons (or I guess all the normal dungeons too).

Just yesterday I queued with a group for random vet. First we got ICP. Newer dungeons being what they are, with bullet sponges galore, it took a while just to get through a few trash mobs. We knew we weren't going to get very far, so instead we decided to leave and re-queue.

2nd time we got Ruins of Marzipan. Yes, marzipan, ok? :P We gave it a go, but again it was a bit much for our group, so we just disbanded and went our separate ways.

Other games have 3 levels of difficulty for dungeons. ESO is missing the third. The harder/newer vet dungeons need to be toned down so that once you hit vet you can actually queue solo or with a group at CP 10 for random vet and be able to get through it.

Add nightmare with gold drops and ludicrous difficulty! Implement a dungeon leaderboard for extra goodies for those that achieve greatness!

You can't ask to nerf a NEW dungeon especially if you do it in a pug group , 50% of the people don't bother to go in youtube to check the pros video in order to learn how to do it.
But then they complain if they cant faceroll the content, you are talking of probably the only tree "hard" dungeon left in the game , please L2P

Obviously, didn't read or understand the whole thing.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · August 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DaFatCookie wrote: »

The group invited you to a Teamspeak(TS) for the communication on the boss you were the only one having troubles with her "shadow sense" ability, you don't need a maxed out cp group I've done it with a group of 200+ we used TS to communicate to get it done. I do agree with you on the part of the maze with the doors being random which i dislike since it gets me and and a mate overwhelmed by the adds when we have to go around.

Lol, I still don't understand how to avoid those ground spears...

you told me to stand in the green AOE, I did that. Someone in the zone chat said you have to roll, but I did that the first few times before you told me to stay still and wait for the spider to drop.

I haven't spent an hour on a dungeon/final TG trial boss in a long time. That's a very frustrating situation, and seeing as how that dungeon went tonight. I just can't imagine the hell im going to go through in the future with PUGs trying to get the pledge done on hardmode.

since when did hardmode need to be easily completed with no ts and a pug group. all the same gear drops in blue on normal, maybe that is the place for you.

Leon119 · August 2016

I just pop an immovanility and speed pot and casually run through the maze. We had more trouble figuring out the timing for the ground spears than the mazes and trouble is a strong word

Buffout · August 2016

The 3 doors in maze are randomly closed, but with an atronach light there no problem to navigate there, even without a healer (use rearming trap, even magicka dps use it, or caltrops to slow the mobs, bow passive for move speed, rapid; many ways). What is the problem to run AND hit the map button for a sec without using minimap addon? I dont see any problem in that. Without the light (if someone died after picking it for example) its nearly impossible to get through, yes.

And the spike phase actually is ez pz:

She says "dont move a muscle", you dont move. Room goes dark, you stand still. Room goes bright again you start running whatever direction. Then, after you see a dust on ground and the sound of shaking ground (it indicates that the spike is about to arise from the point where the ground began to shake under your feet) you just use roll dodge (roll dodge ends at the edge of the radius of the spike), and that is it, 100% damage avoid.

Other than not dying with the light and practicing how to dodge spikes it is only about not getting hit by red orbs because of healing received debuff, killing adds asap because they hurt and stun, and avoid her 2 channeling abilites for a tank (the one when she rapidly strikes in a cone in front of her, and the one which she channels and one shots everyone even in block (yellow channeling lights))

It is not easy, it needs practice. But there was a time when i thought ICP was hard. Now i wonder how in the world people can struggle there when it such a lame easy dungeon.

Smasherx74 · August 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DaFatCookie wrote: »

The group invited you to a Teamspeak(TS) for the communication on the boss you were the only one having troubles with her "shadow sense" ability, you don't need a maxed out cp group I've done it with a group of 200+ we used TS to communicate to get it done. I do agree with you on the part of the maze with the doors being random which i dislike since it gets me and and a mate overwhelmed by the adds when we have to go around.

Lol, I still don't understand how to avoid those ground spears...

you told me to stand in the green AOE, I did that. Someone in the zone chat said you have to roll, but I did that the first few times before you told me to stay still and wait for the spider to drop.

I haven't spent an hour on a dungeon/final TG trial boss in a long time. That's a very frustrating situation, and seeing as how that dungeon went tonight. I just can't imagine the hell im going to go through in the future with PUGs trying to get the pledge done on hardmode.

since when did hardmode need to be easily completed with no ts and a pug group. all the same gear drops in blue on normal, maybe that is the place for you.

Feel superior by belittling others do we? I've already done it hardmode, with a pug, no ts. It's easy.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · August 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DaFatCookie wrote: »

The group invited you to a Teamspeak(TS) for the communication on the boss you were the only one having troubles with her "shadow sense" ability, you don't need a maxed out cp group I've done it with a group of 200+ we used TS to communicate to get it done. I do agree with you on the part of the maze with the doors being random which i dislike since it gets me and and a mate overwhelmed by the adds when we have to go around.

Lol, I still don't understand how to avoid those ground spears...

you told me to stand in the green AOE, I did that. Someone in the zone chat said you have to roll, but I did that the first few times before you told me to stay still and wait for the spider to drop.

I haven't spent an hour on a dungeon/final TG trial boss in a long time. That's a very frustrating situation, and seeing as how that dungeon went tonight. I just can't imagine the hell im going to go through in the future with PUGs trying to get the pledge done on hardmode.

since when did hardmode need to be easily completed with no ts and a pug group. all the same gear drops in blue on normal, maybe that is the place for you.

Feel superior by belittling others do we? I've already done it hardmode, with a pug, no ts. It's easy.

so you give me a hard time LOL gg. did you even read the boohoo qq rant that want s it easier. no my comment stands. ALL gear dorps endgame level in normal mode now. nerf vet threads can F****** die now

Peekachu99 · August 2016

Buffout wrote: »

The 3 doors in maze are randomly closed, but with an atronach light there no problem to navigate there, even without a healer (use rearming trap, even magicka dps use it, or caltrops to slow the mobs, bow passive for move speed, rapid; many ways). What is the problem to run AND hit the map button for a sec without using minimap addon? I dont see any problem in that. Without the light (if someone died after picking it for example) its nearly impossible to get through, yes.

And the spike phase actually is ez pz:

She says "dont move a muscle", you dont move. Room goes dark, you stand still. Room goes bright again you start running whatever direction. Then, after you see a dust on ground and the sound of shaking ground (it indicates that the spike is about to arise from the point where the ground began to shake under your feet) you just use roll dodge (roll dodge ends at the edge of the radius of the spike), and that is it, 100% damage avoid.

Other than not dying with the light and practicing how to dodge spikes it is only about not getting hit by red orbs because of healing received debuff, killing adds asap because they hurt and stun, and avoid her 2 channeling abilites for a tank (the one when she rapidly strikes in a cone in front of her, and the one which she channels and one shots everyone even in block (yellow channeling lights))

It is not easy, it needs practice. But there was a time when i thought ICP was hard. Now i wonder how in the world people can struggle there when it such a lame easy dungeon.

Thank you for that. We made it through, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the hell was one shotting my defensively capped, 40K HP, hardy, etc tank. They had to get me up twice and I still hadn't figured out that mechanic, since I believe it's a DEBUFF, where her next hit does massive damage. In the recap it was a random ability of hers (different each time and seemingly rote in her assortment of moves) that did the one shot. You can also spam a purge like a spaz (Templar tank is easiest), and most of the time you'll cleanse the debuff.

I'll look for the yellow glow next time through. Thanks again.

Spliffo · August 2016

It's a lot easier if you just burn the boss fast enough and skip the spike mechanic