lonewolf26 wrote: »

Permantnely banning someone for showing you where your software is not working is irresponsible of a developer. You need to gauge intent before laying down the ban hammer.

Given that we're seeing people who did try on the set and weren't banned... It's almost certain they were using metrics of abuse to parse the bans.

Also, this was a known issue. It was well publicised on the PTS boards. So, if someone went out and farmed up the set immediately after the DLC dropped... That's actually pretty damning.

Since I do not know firsthand what has happened, knowing all the details is impossible. My concern is the severity of the bans. They seemed rushed and not thought out. From what certain individuals claim I think they atleast deserve some investigation. If certain players were actively reporting the sets after killing npc's (for no real personal gain), you would think they wouldn't have foul intentions.

I know a few players who have recieved bans over this and I cant say whether they should be set free or banned for life. I will say they should be looked at to make a decision. Check out their logs, use your resources to see if they were up to no good or being honest. Treating players as guilty before proven innocent I think will dissuade players from trying to help ZOS fix bugs and programming issues. I have seen other players in this game get a soft ban for things that were way more severe than this.

Plus, no offence, we didn't break the set. The ESO community has been dealing with bugged skills, bugged armor sets, abilities not performing as intended, etc for the games entire lifespan. Maybe take a closer look at the cards you deal us before they are in the players hand.

orangeman57ub17_ESO wrote: »

From what certain individuals claim I think they atleast deserve some investigation.

Actually, read between the lines. It seriously sounds like these bans were hand issued. And now people who were exploiting are crying foul and claiming "I was only testing."

Every time a "serious" bug/exploit makes it to live the aftermath ends up a little differently.

Some of these issues are indeed reported on the PTS, but often go unheard or replied with a generic copy paste response.
Perhaps some of the readers of the tickets don't play the game enough to understand the magnitude of these bugs and the difference between 5 pages of "A spike came up and 1 shot me on Velidreth, BUG" and the single "X set is broken"

Players end up finding a lot of these bugs, and a lot of them aren't believed without video proof which means you have to actually use it for a few minutes.

I look back and remember the rearming trap issue, that was pretty serious.
So many players in the population were actually doing it by the time ZoS stepped in and hotfixed it that banning or going through the records of damage that resulted as a use of such a set would have been a logistical nightmare.

Still, every exploit/hack fiasco directly affects how players react to the next one.

This time may have sent a message now that players will be too scared to do anything about the next serious exploit that makes it to live, especially if they do attempt to report it and that report goes unheard.
These bi-polar reactions aren't healthy in the long run.

Slakk wrote: »

This time may have sent a message now that players will be too scared to do anything about the next serious exploit that makes it to live, especially if they do attempt to report it and that report goes unheard.
These bi-polar reactions aren't healthy in the long run.

Awesome post Slakk. We have all filled out bug reports, many of us have tested armor suits, abilities, etc.., and even starting this thread had me concerned regarding the stability I now have in game. I hate to second guess what is the right thing to do because we might get banned if we do it.

I find it pretty ridiculous that these permabans are still holding, yet we have plenty of overturned permabans for confirmed CE users.

yodased wrote: »

I understand your empathy because these are your friends, but motive is irrelevant.

But I did it for reasons is irrelevant. It is not their job nor responsibility to send in complete parses of a boss fight on a live server for 'TESTING'.

PERM ban means nothing to zos though so just appeal. My opinion is van should stay, don't use broken gear.

Thanks Yoda, they have appealed and have got no where thus I started the forum.

I agree that Z0$ goes about this all wrong and one point in particular keeps reverberating in my mind:


Not all check forums, in particular General forums where discussions usually take place.

TOS or nothing states that i have to check forums for bugged items or reports of exploits from the player base.

If no statement was announced in game or in the launcher i dont see how you can hold people accountable to this. It is a set that has been in the game for ages, was reported on the PTS but pushed LIVE regardless.

This is not an excuse but a lack of commitment from Z0$ to be in touch with there game. Someone gears themselves up, plays away thinking WW is OP with none the wiser and gets a ban is just stupidity.

People still using CE, blatantly after the video was posted on Z0$ rescinding the ban after a phone call. Reinforcing a lack of integrity and empathy towards blatant cheating using 3rd party software.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So let me get this straight... People made posts and threads about why ZOS isn't more harsh and strict about enforcing their policies about cheating/exploiting... And now you all are saying that ZOS went overboard? What? Lmao. No. Absolutely not. Let these players remain banned and for good. Cut the crap, and knock it off. It's just getting plain silly. I understand we are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect that understanding — but come on. This is ridiculous. If you cheat or exploit? You get banned. It's that simple.

...I would like to see the forum post this person would make when they get banned for wearing a set they didn't even know was broken and then gets no response from ZOS to their appeal. And yes, this is happening. Except you wouldn't even be able to make a forum post--your forum account is banned when your account is banned so you are left with no voice, no way to defend yourself.

Your only recourse is to hope that you have friends in the community that will stand up for you and speak out. Java, you are wonderful and thank you for speaking out for our guildmates and friends who did not deserve a permaban. I have loved this game for a long time but feel completely betrayed by this lazy, over-the-top ban hammer that ZOS has inflicted upon our player base. I can only think it is to try and save face from their continued impotence in ridding the game of those who use Cheat Engine. Instead they institute a game wide ban on those using a broken set that was identified on the PTS but still somehow went live.

It is the responsibility of ZOS to fix their bugs.

Banning the player community for interacting with broken items puts the burden on the player base to know what items are bugged and avoid them. It is rather naive to assume all players even know how to tell if an item is bugged. The majority of players don't even run the add ons that would allow them to know nor do they even read these forums. They are simply playing a game and having fun.

But let's say the player did know. They got curious or they thought they were helping by recording video of the bug to send into ZOS. A permaban is extreme and is simply ZOS's lazy bandaid so they can get away with not fixing the overwhelming amount of broken content in this game. This all goes back to a development team that does not put enough resources into QCing their own content.

On top of that, I have witnessed how unresponsive and spotty ZOS's customer support team is in responding to players who are trying to defend themselves from an unfair ban. One of the people who was banned has not even been given a reason as to why he was banned. They simply stopped responding to his appeal.

I lay the blame solely at the feet of ZOS--the people who could have fixed the bug but didn't.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I have been a subscriber since beta and spent hundreds of dollars in the Crown Store. Last week, I canceled my subscription and will not be giving ZOS any more business. For those of you who want ZOS to make some changes, your money is your vote. Stop supporting a development company that does not take responsibility for their own mistakes. If ZOS cares at all about the health of their community, they will reverse the Salvation Set bans or others of their like and fix their bugs in a timely manner instead.

brandelwine wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So let me get this straight... People made posts and threads about why ZOS isn't more harsh and strict about enforcing their policies about cheating/exploiting... And now you all are saying that ZOS went overboard? What? Lmao. No. Absolutely not. Let these players remain banned and for good. Cut the crap, and knock it off. It's just getting plain silly. I understand we are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect that understanding — but come on. This is ridiculous. If you cheat or exploit? You get banned. It's that simple.

...I would like to see the forum post this person would make when they get banned for wearing a set they didn't even know was broken and then gets no response from ZOS to their appeal. And yes, this is happening. Except you wouldn't even be able to make a forum post--your forum account is banned when your account is banned so you are left with no voice, no way to defend yourself.

Your only recourse is to hope that you have friends in the community that will stand up for you and speak out.

No, your recourse is to file a Customer Support ticket, explain how you didn't know this was a bug, and ask to be allowed back in. There is no point, whatsoever, to having a guildie come onto the forums and scream, "halp, mah buddy was et bah ah GM, and we need yer halp to get'em back!"

starkerealm wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

To be honest. You have to farm for the salvation set, which in itself is intent to exploit.

I actually had a full set stashed away long before it bugged out ...

It's still BOP, right?

I don't even remember. I thought it was BOE but i may be wrong ...

The old version was BoP, I think. I mean, it's been a long time, and I ended up deconing my pieces ages ago... but still.

It was bind on equip. I remember putting some old vet pieces of this set into a guild bank many months back.

Java you need to get your snap chat game up first, then and only then can you lift the perm ban.

Also I hear phone calls work rather well.

SirAndy wrote: »

JavaWho wrote: »

I streamed your game and have been involved in the in game community for a long time.

And that is relevant how exactly? Are you expecting "special treatment" because you have streamed the game?



And for what it's worth, i also tested the set when i first heard rumors of the bug and exploit and i wasn't banned.
Something smells fishy ...

What do you mean when you say that you tested the set?

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I'd say a permanent ban was too harsh if this went down how you say, but I still question it.

I only have your word @JavaWho, who heard it from them that they only used this set once in Vet Spindleclutch and Rawl Kha. ZOS, since they won't name or shame, can't fight a battle of public opinion unless someone comes forward with a different story on a different forum. I just hope they are being honest with you and not only giving half the story.

Part of my skepticism comes from how many complained about how easy it is to get out of a ban by contacting customer support and apologizing. Those not unbanned typically had a history of issues, they are rude when they contact support, or they blatently exploited something to the point of abuse. I don't know the two involved though, so I can't judge their character, just the facts presented.

So if this is their first offense and it was limited to 2 PVE experiences like this, a warning would have sufficed. If they told a half truth and did use this in PVP, a suspension for a few days seems fair. If they had a history of exploiting things, a permanent ban might be in order until they come back and apologize. That's my opinion though, I'm sure ZOS has its own evidence and policy on how they ban folks now.

meanwhile I hope they have called customer support or emailed to try and appeal this ban. if its as easy as they say they could be out in hours.

Honestly, this is where a lot of my skepticism on this whole mess is coming from.

This is an egregious exploit. It was well documented on the PTS. It slipped into the live build (okay, yeah, that's a serious mistake to make, on ZOS).

And suddenly, a lot of people rushed out, and "accidentally" chased down a full set of grind gear, to gain access to the exploit so they could "test" it?

Something about this whole situation smells off. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for your friends, too. But, I have a really hard time chalking this one up to an honest mistake.