I'm pretty sure there are more than 7 vet dungeons.

Talyena wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

All I am saying with pledges is that they are taking away pledges from the base game, something they said they wouldn't do. And then I offered a solution that wouldn't take away anything from the base game but offer even more content to DLC purchasers and subscribers. I don't see how anyone could possibly have a problem with that.

No, the dungeons are a part of the base game. The dungeons are the content. The pledges are a bonus incentive system designed to get everyone "on the same page" each day to make it easier to group. Having divergent pledges is counterproductive to the whole purpose of pledges.

Plus, it would be a mess to implement. You do something like this, and next, the subscribers who would prefer an easy gold key facerolling through Darkshade would would complain and ask for a way to get the alternate pledge.

I don't want ZOS wasting their time making the system more complicated to accomplish a dubious goal that would undermine the purpose of the pledge system.

The base game content is there. You get fewer incentives to run them. And that's perfectly fine.

Sorry, but the pledges were in the game prior to it going free, so it is base game content. It is also the primary way to level up undaunted. So say what you want but by including DLC dungeons in the pledge rotation they are taking away from the base game. And if adding another quest giver is too complicated for the dev team then they might as well shut the game down now. But personally, I think it is something they can handle.

The pledge system is a part of the base game, but that's irrelevant. It's not actual content--it's an incentive system to encourage people to do the content. And it's a system whose purpose will be diluted if you fragment it. And if that means people who don't have the DLC don't get an entitlement of one chance at a gold key every day, that's fine. The dungeons are still there, and you're free to run whatever base game dungeon you want on DLC pledge days, just without a key.

L2Pissue wrote: »

I was ok with 2 DLC exclusive dungeons, IC DLC was the most sold DLC since the start of releasing DLCs so it makes sense to include it in the daily pledges
Shadow of the Hist, however, is the least sold (or actually failed ) DLC and has the least sales.. and you include it in the daily pledges,, as gold pledge? its a failed dungeon DLC played by the absolute least number of players, throw its dungeons as silver pledges

Numbers as proof or your pulling stats out of your derriere.

L2Pissue wrote: »

I was ok with 2 DLC exclusive dungeons, IC DLC was the most sold DLC since the start of releasing DLCs so it makes sense to include it in the daily pledges
Shadow of the Hist, however, is the least sold (or actually failed ) DLC and has the least sales.. and you include it in the daily pledges,, as gold pledge? its a failed dungeon DLC played by the absolute least number of players, throw its dungeons as silver pledges

How do you even know that ? No one has access to any kind of sales numbers....

Carbonised wrote: »

Gold pledges shouldn't be nigh impossible for 4 cp450+ competent players imo.

But it isn't. Did I mention that two members of my group had under 250 CP? Let me mention that again.

All that i am seeing here is just a big Learn to play issue. The dungeons arent that hard, already completed both HM's and speed runs for them. If you dont want to buy the DLC to get the equipment stop complaining. If you do have the DLC and are complaining about the difficulty there is a normal mode and it will help you learn to use mechanics. STOP asking for nerfs if you struggle with simple things and please be open minded

Not like you can really just pug the 4 DLC gold pledges, that would be painful with like 10% chance the pug can even complete them. Even with the wgt/icp nerds, it can can be tough.

L2Pissue wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Hum no?

Non-DLC:
1. Banished Cells
2. Spindleclutch
3. Fungal Grotto
4. Darkshade Caverns
5. Elden Hollow
6. Wayrest Sewers
7. City of Ash
8. Crypt of Hearts

DLC:
9. White-Gold Tower
10. Imperial City Prison
11. Craddle of Shadows
12. Ruins of Mazzatun


That's 4 out of 12.

there are 12 pledges, but the "pledge wheel" doesnt do ALL non-DLC gold pledges at a time.
it does like:
4 DLC dungeons
3 non-DLC dungeons(changing each time)
and repeat

EXACTLY! the dungeon "rng" is very off, it's definetly not the type of "rng" you're thinking of. Random dungeon 8/10 times is gold/silver pledge or just banished cells...

I've went months without seeing certain dungeons in pledges.

Carbonised wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Gold pledges shouldn't be nigh impossible for 4 cp450+ competent players imo.

But it isn't. Did I mention that two members of my group had under 250 CP? Let me mention that again.

You can mention that till you're blue in the face.

Doesn't change the fact that ZOS lowered the difficulty of vICP and vWGT exactly and specifically because their numbers showed that too few people were running those dungeons as gold pledges.
And then they added 2 Hist dungeons into the rotation, that were even harder than the IC dungeons. Makes absolutely no sense.

And to comment on your post specifically, judging from your boastful signature, I'm betting you and your friend carried the 2 others through that dungeon. And you said it yourself that it was painful. And seeing as you write 'key' and not 'keys', I'm assuming you didn't do hard mode, which is the requirement for 2 keys. And I'd also say that CoS is quite easier than RoM

Was there anything else?

My friend was a tank--not much a tank could do to carry, and I was on an alt. And yes, vCoS is easier than vRoM. But why do you mention that? I specifically said vRoM in my post.

You seem to have this strange notion that things don't get easier as people do them. For example, my first clear of vMA cost me hundreds of deaths (even my second clear cost me nearly a hundred deaths), and my most recent clear cost me just 2 deaths. But vMA's difficulty hasn't been nerfed at all in that time. The only thing that's changed is the amount of practice that I've had.

Is vICP/vWGT easier for me than the SotH dungeons? Yes. Is it because vICP/vWGT are actually easier? I don't think so. I think it's because I've had months of experience running vICP/vWGT. My first clears of vICP took 3+ hours and my first clear of vWGT took 2+ hours. My first clears of vRoM and vCoS took over 2 hours each, but with practice and a higher comfort level, I got the vRoM and vCoS speed runs last night (30 minutes) with ample time to spare (and even got no-death, too).

I've run the SotH dungeons enough times by now that I think that once I figure in the differing comfort levels, they're about on par with vWGT/vICP--probably even a bit easier. What you can't do is compare the difficulty of a fresh dungeon--when you've had zero practice and zero experience--against a dungeon that you've run so much that you can navigate it in your sleep.

And correct, it was not hard mode. Hard mode is very difficult, even with a good group, but that's perfectly fine--you don't need to do hard mode to get a gold key. People have been so spoiled by things like the vICP so-called "hard" mode that gave you an extra free gold key for basically doing nothing different. It's good that hard mode is actually hard in these dungeons and that they are a meaningful and substantial jump in difficulty. Just don't go for the extra key. It's fine, the world won't end if you only get one key. I don't always go for the extra key, even with a good group.

Lets see, vMA, hard mode vSO, vMoL etc etc. Yeah nice try passing yourself on as a regular pug.

You seem to have the strange notion that everyone likes super insane hard content just because you do.

CoS and RoM are harder than IC dungeons and everything else, no least due to all the amount of circus bullsh*t you have to do all the time due to boss mechanics. Like the RNG maze at Velidreth and the invulnerable boss phases in both dungeons and I could go on.

You're the odd one out, the game shouldn't be balanced towards your specific needs when you represent like 1 % of the playerbase, mac.
The rest of us pay way more in subs than you do, and I think I'm a better representative of the average endgame player than you are by a long shot.
If you want super insane hard content, just carry on doing your vet trials, we don't need vet dungeons to become inaccessable to the average player as well.

I'm trying to be reasonable, but you seem to have more fun in attacking me than what I have to say. But whatever. I never said I'm a regular PUG. But in a group with two PUGs, you'd think that would be comparable to a regular group of 500 CP players? But that's all a sideshow, since my main point of contention at this point is that your claim that these dungeons are harder than the IC dungeons.

And in my opinion, they are not, once you stop comparing apples to oranges. A fresh dungeon that you have no experience in is of course going to be harder than a dungeon that you've done multiple times before. Mark my words, once you've done vCoS and vRoM as often as you have vWGT and vICP, you'll change your mind. You don't believe me now, and that's fine--you'll see in time.

Nor do I think everyone likes--or should like--hard content. But what I don't understand from this thread and from others that you have graced with your rantings, is why do you turn your nose up at normal mode? Normal mode drops CR160 gear (a welcome change from the CR150 junk from the IC dungeons), and people are even reporting the monster helms dropping from normal. So, for this "average" player you claim to champion, why not just do normal, instead of complaining that vet is too hard? It's there for a reason.

Oh, and Ibomez has an invulnerability phase too. This is a good thing, as it makes it so people can't DPS through mechanics. You don't need super-high DPS to get through the SotH dungeons--you can do it fine with average DPS, as long as you do the mechanics. For Xal-Nur, release a wamasu for every spice phase--there's no reason not to unless you're going for that one-time achievement of not releasing any. The spice carry is tricky, but gets much easier the more you've done it. For Dranos, it's even easier: chain each of his essences to him (or bring him to each one) and let him reabsorb his essences (instead of killing them and collecting the orbs). Not only is there an achievement for defeating Dranos this way (Divided He Fell), but it also means that his two most deadly attacks are bypassed (they're actually punishments for you absorbing the orbs). Dranos is probably the easiest "big" boss of all the DLC dungeons if you use this strategy.

The catacomb maze, I'll agree, is annoying. But once again, it becomes so much easier the more times you do it. Even on hard mode where only one door is open and RNG places that open door at the last position that I check, I still make it through consistently now. Honestly, I welcome the catacomb phase now in vCoS HM because, with practice, that's become the easiest and least hectic part of the fight, and it's a welcome break from the chaos of the main boss room in HM.

Again, the content needs time and practice. You cannot compare fresh content with content that you're familiar with.