Isn't Guild Trader collusion awesome?
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alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »System, server and location?
If you're on console what you're describing is basically impossible on a full scale basis. If you only shop in one location I could see this, but there are plenty of deals to be had in the wilderness.
Not impossible. It happened. But it was not all guilds doing it together. A group went around and bought all gold tempers and jacked the price up and are slowly selling them
Edit: also to whoever said there guild would kick them for selling lower than 18k if that is true I would not stay, I understand them not wanting people to undercut there own guild members but right now the tempers are being inflated by a select few. Just because you see a bunch of different guild traders with high price does not mean they are in on it. I know for me personally when I saw prices go that high I went and listed my personal stockpile for the same amount in order to make a quick bit of change while the prices last. If you have not noticed a day or 2 before the DLC prices for blacksmith gold tempers were around 20-25k but they are already back down around the 17k mark in some places
Just give it time and prices will normalize again after more people farm some moreEdited by alexkdd99 on August 18, 2016 5:54PM0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I never buy mats I get my own . Sitting on tons still since launch . Farmed for 6 months straight , never need guilds for materials ever .1 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »System, server and location?
If you're on console what you're describing is basically impossible on a full scale basis. If you only shop in one location I could see this, but there are plenty of deals to be had in the wilderness.
Not impossible. It happened. But it was not all guilds doing it together. A group went around and bought all gold tempers and jacked the price up and are slowly selling them
Again, they bought a bunch of them, but not anywhere near all of them. look around and you will find them cheaper0 -
ZOS_JohanaB✭✭✭✭We've removed some comments on this thread that have been considered baiting or inappropriate. Please take care to review and follow the community rules when deciding to post.0 -
Acharnor✭✭✭✭You want real variety in prices you need to get rid of the awesome add ons which tell you what things sell for. Man I love that thing. But, it does a lot for the homogenisation of prices on all sorts of things across guild traders. Me - I think there should just be more guild stalls for guilds who are smaller and cant compete with the bids of bigger guilds.Celebrate for life is short but sweet for certain.1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sigh, That is what the major guilds are trying to do...control the entire market.
I simply want a better system. You are being destructive instead of constructive.
How about some better ideas from you to address the complaints with this system?
is the system perfect? no.
does the system work? yes.
anyone is free to offer for sale any item (not bound) for any price they choose. whether they make a sale or not is another matter.
the current system is decentralized making gaming it extremely difficult if not impossible.
you want to replace that with a centralized system that can be easily gamed, and you consider that an improvement?1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AntMan100673 wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »xilfxlegion wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Yep its going on XB EU. From 14.5 an alloy now to over 18k most are 20k solid now. Stupid.
yes --- dont buy them. if people dont buy them, the price will come back down.
I'm not. Never will. Esp as half of that will still be left overs from survey glitches. It's all the same people doing it. No one always had that many alloys for sale all at once all the time. But low and behold one person on one guild in Rawlka has 22 alloys up for sale right now alone.
I've got no idea if you're right or wrong for that person but if alloys are selling at the inflated price I'll probably fill all 30 of my slots at my mournehold trader up with them. I've got over 60 so I could keep it stocked for a while and I've never glitched or even gone out of my way to farm for them. When the prices go down I'll buy back however many I sold and pocket the difference
there is difference between being offered for sale and selling....0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sigh, That is what the major guilds are trying to do...control the entire market.
I simply want a better system. You are being destructive instead of constructive.
How about some better ideas from you to address the complaints with this system?
What better system do you want? An auction house would cause this problem to be significantly worse, and the idea of something like a "Tamriel Trade Commission" to break up price fixing cartels is absurd.
What exactly do you want besides cheap mats?
respectfully disagree...
An auction house would allow the independents to add to the competition. Overall it would add to market stability, wherein the lowest price wins, and not a ridiculous "search and ye shall find" clusternut.
AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE!!!!3 -
Shad0wfire99✭✭✭✭✭
✭This all started by allowing PC transfers to come in with millions in gold on day one. Those guys have held the same guild traders since launch.
XBox NA4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »Sigh, That is what the major guilds are trying to do...control the entire market.
I simply want a better system. You are being destructive instead of constructive.
How about some better ideas from you to address the complaints with this system?
What better system do you want? An auction house would cause this problem to be significantly worse, and the idea of something like a "Tamriel Trade Commission" to break up price fixing cartels is absurd.
What exactly do you want besides cheap mats?
respectfully disagree...
An auction house would allow the independents to add to the competition. Overall it would add to market stability, wherein the lowest price wins, and not a ridiculous "search and ye shall find" clusternut.
AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE!!!!
no.... the low price stuff - if in demand - would be bought up by people with gold to spare and then flipped. and since it is all in one place it would be easy to do.Edited by jedtb16_ESO on August 18, 2016 6:08PM5 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Sigh, That is what the major guilds are trying to do...control the entire market.
I simply want a better system. You are being destructive instead of constructive.
How about some better ideas from you to address the complaints with this system?
What better system do you want? An auction house would cause this problem to be significantly worse, and the idea of something like a "Tamriel Trade Commission" to break up price fixing cartels is absurd.
What exactly do you want besides cheap mats?
respectfully disagree...
An auction house would allow the independents to add to the competition. Overall it would add to market stability, wherein the lowest price wins, and not a ridiculous "search and ye shall find" clusternut.
AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE!!!!
no.... the low price stuff - if in demand - would be bought up by people with gold to spare and then flipped.
This, there would be people scanning the AH continuously to flip low-priced stuff. It might make it easier for people to sell but would make it worse for people looking to buy at a good price.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
Shadeaux✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
Many people would be willing to sell at a lower price, but do not want to be kicked out of a high traffic trader because your overall sales on other items is less.
Edited by Shadeaux on August 18, 2016 6:14PM3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shad0wfire99 wrote: »This all started by allowing PC transfers to come in with millions in gold on day one. Those guys have held the same guild traders since launch.
This problem is not specific to console though.2 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
The price of a gold upgrade material went up overnight coincidentally at the exact same time that a bunch of desirable end-game gear was made available, but no of course it has nothing to do with supply and demand.
@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion3 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
The price of a gold upgrade material went up overnight coincidentally at the exact same time that a bunch of desirable end-game gear was made available, but no of course it has nothing to do with supply and demand.
exactly right. but pointing out the obvious to conspiracy theorists never seems to work, sadly.2 -
Shadeaux✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
The price of a gold upgrade material went up overnight coincidentally at the exact same time that a bunch of desirable end-game gear was made available, but no of course it has nothing to do with supply and demand.
exactly right. but pointing out the obvious to conspiracy theorists never seems to work, sadly.
It only takes 2 to be a conspiracy
And as I stated, I am in one of these Trading guilds. I KNOW there is collusion. I'm not speculating.Edited by Shadeaux on August 18, 2016 6:24PM5 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
Many people would be willing to sell at a lower price, but do not want to be kicked out of a high traffic trader because your overall sales on other items is less.
i am in 5 guilds. not one of them tells me how much i can sell my stuff for. youre going to the wrong guilds if that is the case2 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »Sigh, That is what the major guilds are trying to do...control the entire market.
I simply want a better system. You are being destructive instead of constructive.
How about some better ideas from you to address the complaints with this system?
What better system do you want? An auction house would cause this problem to be significantly worse, and the idea of something like a "Tamriel Trade Commission" to break up price fixing cartels is absurd.
What exactly do you want besides cheap mats?
respectfully disagree...
An auction house would allow the independents to add to the competition. Overall it would add to market stability, wherein the lowest price wins, and not a ridiculous "search and ye shall find" clusternut.
AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE! AUCTION HOUSE!!!!
i am guessing that all of you ranting for an auction house have never actually played a game with an auction house, of you would realize how horrible they are.
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Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And that's the problem with trying to illuminate the truth amongst the conspiracy theorists who for some reason think that a centralized Auction House would somehow fix any supposed "collusion" rather than make it ten times worse.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
You can join one of these guilds, but you will be told not to go under a certain price on certain items.
The one I am in went from13k to 18k minimum TA price overnight. As did many, many, many others. That is not simply supply and demand effect.
The price of a gold upgrade material went up overnight coincidentally at the exact same time that a bunch of desirable end-game gear was made available, but no of course it has nothing to do with supply and demand.
exactly right. but pointing out the obvious to conspiracy theorists never seems to work, sadly.
It only takes 2 to be a conspiracy
And as I stated, I am in one of these Trading guilds. I KNOW there is collusion. I'm not speculating.
If you don't agree with the theorists, then you're part of the conspiracy.
I've been a member/active player in most every MMO that has had a centralized AH. In every one of those, there was actual collusion and two to three Guilds controlled the entire market with an iron fist.
They did it exactly like other people have said would happen were ESO to get a centralized AH. They went in with their millions of Gold, bought up everything of value, then ratcheted up the price once they owned 90%+ of those items. Then, when a newer player tried to break into the market, rather than be undercut, they'd buy out that newer player, and flip it around to sell at the higher price along with the rest of the commodities that they controlled.
And this would all happen again if ESO were to get a centralized Auction House.
The Guild Trader system makes controlling and monopolizing the market in this way nigh impossible. With 100+ Trade Guilds on each of the four servers, there's no way any "collusion" would take place on that massive of a scale. It's simply a statistical impossibility.
Just because your Guild Master has told all his Guildies to sell no lower than a certain price, does not mean that every other Guild in the game is going right along with that.
No, this spike in price overnight simply coincides with the release of a new DLC. New items for sale, new Motif pages/books, etc., always leads to a spike in the price of improvement mats/tempers.
But there are deals to be had, and often they are in the out-of-the-way Trader stalls. One just has to look. And just because YOU think that that would be too much of a hassle to go looking away from the major trading hubs, does not mean that the system is broken or that there's "collusion". It simply means that you're lazy.
But those lower prices are out there.
And if you wait for a couple of weeks or a month, you'll see those prices coming down again as demand for them drops. It happens every time with a new DLC entering the game, and it will happen this time as well.
But a centralized Auction House would lead to even higher price spikes than what you're seeing today (which happens to be only one day after a new DLC released [imagine that...]), and those prices wouldn't come down for years (if they ever do).
But, I know I won't be able to convince you of this simple truth. Like most of the conspiracy theorists, since I don't agree with you, and I'm actively telling you that you're wrong, I must be part of the conspiracy that is "colluding" to ruin your game experience.
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code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Um. All it takes is one person with too much gold and time on their hands to visit every single trader, buy up all the alloys, and then relist them higher.
There's no need for collusion--just enough concentrated capital for someone to corner a market.
It would be harder to do with a guild than with an individual, as the latter requires no coordination.
It would be easier to do with a central auction house because visiting every single trader is the hardest and most time-consuming thing that a would-be cornerer would have to do.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Zerok✭✭✭✭
OP, what you are saying cannot be true.Anyone notice that tempering alloy just went up in price at pretty much all traders at exact same time?
In real life, that's a crime.
The guild trader system is completely immune to market manipulation. That's why it was put there in the first place.
Therefore, you can only be a liar.
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Please don't take this message too seriously
Zeerok (the sneaky ruffian) - LV50 Bosmer stamblade DPS (AD)
Gontrand de Bourbon (the greedy aristocrat) - LV50 Breton magsorc tank (DC)
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Others in this thread have said it ... but I'll reiterate it --
If you're personally unhappy with guild store prices, reduce your reliance on them by doing some farming of your own.
These types of threads really do get quite tiring ...3 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JohanaB wrote: »We've removed some comments on this thread that have been considered baiting or inappropriate. Please take care to review and follow the community rules when deciding to post.
question -- i do believe you have already stated that youre not going to implement an auction house. if this is true, then why do you keep letting 16 threads a day happen on this ? why not just treat them as spam and close them ?
1 -
AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭You have text chat that everyone wanted. Now you have it, use it to sell stuff and bypass the guild trader system.3 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »
sigh.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »here we go again...
I suppose we could take the Ostrich approach and just pretend is isn't happening.
....or, just going to throw this out there, you could go farm your own.
I do farm my own.
So, to be clear, you are FOR this system that allows this?
You are AGAINST a better system that doesn't allow guilds to form monopolies?
no one here said they were " for " this or against it. -- but the very idea youre peddling is the only one that could possibly create a monopoly.
Um, no, actually there are much better systems than this. Even the one they had in the precursor to this game :DAoC.
For instance, why can't I search ALL trader inventory at once? Why do I need to even have a "spot" for my trader? The limited spots allows "normal" people to be priced out.
I AM IN ONE OF THESE GUILDS
I cannot sell you a TA for less than 18k or I will be kicked.
Notice the part I bolded.
I have a huge feeling you are misunderstanding your guild leader. When they say there is a minimum sale number, they are usually referring to a specific time period(Most often one week). They are not referring to how much individual items should sell for.
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Zerok✭✭✭✭
Yes, if OP does not have time to farm his own materials, he should not be playing at all.Taleof2Cities wrote: »Others in this thread have said it ... but I'll reiterate it --
If you're personally unhappy with guild store prices, reduce your reliance on them by doing some farming of your own.
These types of threads really do get quite tiring ...
In fact, I think we should remove any kind of trading between players. This would make the game even more amazing.Zeerok (the sneaky ruffian) - LV50 Bosmer stamblade DPS (AD)
Gontrand de Bourbon (the greedy aristocrat) - LV50 Breton magsorc tank (DC)
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Zeerokk (the AD zealot) - LV50 Altmer magblade PvP (AD)
Lianna Storm (the inferno maiden) - LV50 Dunmer magDK DPS (EP)
Fights-With-Khajiit (the gullible faithful) - LV5 Argonian templar (EP)
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Fallen_Ray✭✭✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »Fallen_Ray wrote: »It have nothing to do with guild vendors.
New DLC brings up more players;
More players brings up more demand;
More demand inflates prices.
Guild vendors are great.
Great at keeping the elite merchant guilds on the top and keeping on the bottom those that can't joint a good merchant guild. It's a flawed system that states: "If you don't win a 5 million gold bid on a popular trader you won't sell a thing" THose who control the popular traders in each region's capital have the gig monopolized.
Which is why I always see the same guilds in the same areas. BUT HEY!!! "It's working as intended" Right ZOS staff?
and you cannot join a guild because ?
I already belong to 5 guilds that can't always get a trader. But I do identify myself with those players that haven't been able to join a good guild or any at all."Dear brother, I do not spread rumors, I create them"- Lucien Lachance0 -
EZgoin76✭✭✭✭Saying price fixing is a statistical impossibility with the guild trader system is just flat out wrong. It can be done, but it would be a lot tougher.
I don't agree that's what's happening here. A new dlc just dropped and just like every time before, price's on top tier mats has gone up.
We don't need a centralized auction house. What we need is a more intuitive guild trader UI and better guild management tools.Edited by EZgoin76 on August 18, 2016 6:59PMI want to change the world. I'm just to lazy to do it.4 -
Shadeaux✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Others in this thread have said it ... but I'll reiterate it --
If you're personally unhappy with guild store prices, reduce your reliance on them by doing some farming of your own.
These types of threads really do get quite tiring ...
You do not have to participate if you don't care for the topic.
3