valdereth set is too overpowered

Savos_Saren · August 2016

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

20k proc in a dps set up, every 10 seconds, that equals out to a 2,000 Damage over Time
no it should stay

DPS is PVE thing, in pvp burst much more matters and this set have it too much.

Nope. Damage is halved in PVP and the set is actually bugged. Any terrain differences causes the proc to completely miss. Set is currently only viable in PVE, hopefully it gets fixed though.

Meh. It perfectly do it's OP job in mele range, which is 99.999% of stamina builds.

jaburns wrote: »

It's basically the stamina version of Valkyn Skoria.

Yes, Valkyn only procs off DoTs- but Valkyn also does AOE damage. (It's even moreso buffed for Dunmer DKs) You can't dodge Valkyn but you CAN dodge Velidreth.

I consider Velidreth a welcomed set for stam builds. (I don't have it- but I'm damn sure going to try to get it!)

Dodge proc of set which instantly procs on successful attack and instantly blows up because you was attacked from less than 1m? Teach me, sensei.

You're assuming that it procs every time someone does an up close melee attack. Steel tornado hits enemies from 9m away. I do agree with other posts, though, Nerien'eth and the other monster sets need to be updated. Sets like Bogdon and Maw need to be buffed completely!

Minalan · August 2016

It it's not on CD, chances are it'll proc in the opener. Animation cancelled heavy, crit rush, dizzy.. PROC. Dead. All in one second.

At least give the set three seconds to arm the spores like the magicka lich crystal proc.

And for the love of everything holy, give the Nerieneth set max magicka instead of health...

Mayrael · August 2016

Talk to my 37k ressistances baby ;* just play stamina, magica is only for the ones that are seeking some challenge.

The_Payne_Train · August 2016

Minalan wrote: »

It it's not on CD, chances are it'll proc in the opener. Animation cancelled heavy, crit rush, dizzy.. PROC. Dead. All in one second.

At least give the set three seconds to arm the spores like the magicka lich crystal proc.

And for the love of everything holy, give the Nerieneth set max magicka instead of health...

Nerieneth with max mag omg yes please!

Marktoneth3 · August 2016

I don't have this set yet.

Pls,stay tune and wait for me to test its first before you guys nerf its.

leepalmer95 · August 2016

You can dodge it's proc's via evasion or a roll dodge.

10s cool down is a while

If the ground isn't flat then it doesn't work and misses.

olsborg · August 2016

On its own this set could be fine, but when combined with Viper and other procced sets, its ridiculous.

Knightpanther · August 2016

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

This set hits to high and procs way to often. Do you think it needs to go?

Another nerf wanted because of PvPer.

Go figure

hrothbern · August 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Can't you .... Avoid the spores ?

@Averya_Teira ,
I don't know if you can really avoid it when a gap closer is used
Time will learn from all the shared experiences on the Cyro battlefield

But from PTS testing and some "theocrafting"

The spore in the middle goes in the direction the character shooting Velidreth is facing.
The other two spores at roughly an angle of each 60 degrees.

So if the Velidreth character charges in with Crit Charge, Shield Charge, Teleport Strike, Templar Charge, etc....
he is always facing in the right direction and has an immediate 20% chance on that hit and an immediate 20% more chance on any damage that happens in that same split second that is procced by that Gap closer (like for example a weapon enchant and on top for example an elemental secondary proc of an elemental status effect) and has also an almost immediate 20% more chance, when there are one or more DOT's running on the target or for example a Poison procs into Poisoned approx 0.5 seconds after the Poison hit.

So
If the stacked damage ticks that hits on impact of the gap closer did not proc Velidreth, you come into the second phase of the fight.
Here you have to keep avoiding to be in the line of sight the Velidreth character is facing you and a little distance away, to avoid being hit by the other two spores at 60 degrees angle.
If the Velidreth character has a DOT on you, Velidreth is bound to fire fast and should miss you if you position well.

If he has no DOTS on you (the better option for the second chance of Velidreth)
He only needs to gap close again

Perhaps Blocking (or perhaps casting a fresh Shield), when you see someone charging in on you, is more simple.

EDIT
It could be, though unlikely, that there is an internal cooldown for the number of damage ticks that count within for example 0.5 second or 1.0.
Such a cooldown would prevent stacking damage ticks within that window.
I did test Velidreth on PTS, but not on this (small) possibility

NoMoreChillies · August 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

While we are glad to see members making use of the Forums, we must remind everyone that baiting and flaming other members are both violations of the Community Rules. We would like to ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.

why even bother posting
you just give false hope that ZOS actually read this

Because people have a hard time being civil, of course. Be civil and mods won't have to post

Mods could easily edit posts to clean threads without plastering the big Z symbol on it

Tonnopesce · August 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

Talk to my 37k ressistances baby ;* just play stamina, magica is only for the ones that are seeking some challenge.

Too bad 35k is the cap, and if i use a maul 7.2k is automatically ignored + sharpened , another 5k less + minor major breach another 6.5k less + some cp... you got the point i guess.

There are a ton of procs in pvp and when i run widowmaker + velidreth you need to hope they don’t proc together or you will get a lot of damage, if not and you are a uber tank i personally just turn the other way and let you die of boredom...

On topic i don't believe is OP, this set is just a little hard to deal with but if you keep yourself ranged is totally worthless as a set.

Sugaroverdose · August 2016

jaburns wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

20k proc in a dps set up, every 10 seconds, that equals out to a 2,000 Damage over Time
no it should stay

DPS is PVE thing, in pvp burst much more matters and this set have it too much.

Nope. Damage is halved in PVP and the set is actually bugged. Any terrain differences causes the proc to completely miss. Set is currently only viable in PVE, hopefully it gets fixed though.

Meh. It perfectly do it's OP job in mele range, which is 99.999% of stamina builds.

jaburns wrote: »

It's basically the stamina version of Valkyn Skoria.

Yes, Valkyn only procs off DoTs- but Valkyn also does AOE damage. (It's even moreso buffed for Dunmer DKs) You can't dodge Valkyn but you CAN dodge Velidreth.

I consider Velidreth a welcomed set for stam builds. (I don't have it- but I'm damn sure going to try to get it!)

Dodge proc of set which instantly procs on successful attack and instantly blows up because you was attacked from less than 1m? Teach me, sensei.

You're assuming that it procs every time someone does an up close melee attack. Steel tornado hits enemies from 9m away. I do agree with other posts, though, Nerien'eth and the other monster sets need to be updated. Sets like Bogdon and Maw need to be buffed completely!

It's not OP because it doesn't damage for 10k everyone around you? Yes, this set isn't synergies with spamnado, but this fact doesn't make it 'balanced'

FearlessOne_2014 · August 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

Talk to my 37k ressistances baby ;* just play stamina, magica is only for the ones that are seeking some challenge.

Magicka has just turned into a back of the mind thought when wanting to challenge yourself instead of running around on a stamina build. I've watch a friend use this set in Cyrodiil needless to say none of the players he attacked survive.

At this point I think ZOS should just get rid of this set or tone it's damage done by alot. This set was the last thing we needed in Cyrodiil because of Power-creep of stamina burst now. Magicka without gimping your damage stands no chance against this set.

Eweroun · August 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I love how the cool down part isn't highlighted.

true, but neither is the fact that the lich cristal explodes but after 3 seconds...
in that time everyone already sleepwalked out of the damage area..

Izaki · August 2016

@Xeven The comparison you're making doesn't work at all. They are completely different sets with completely different purposes.

Okay let me explain. This set is the only one that has a 10 second cooldown, making it almost garbage for PvE. I'll get into PvP later.

Nerien'eth: Crystal has 10% proc chance but can be procc'ed every 3 seconds off direct damage attacks because of the fact that the Crystal takes 3 seconds to explode. Therefore its higher DPS than Velidreth. The Crystals are AoE hence the lower damage while Velidreth is single target only hence the higher tooltip.

Valkyn Skoria: this too has a cooldown of 5 seconds, but if you have enough DoTs (usually 4 is plenty) you'll have Meteors flying every 5 seconds. More DPS than Velidreth again. Again Skoria has splash damage so its AoE, it locks onto the target, whereas Velidreth can miss completely and its not AoE.

Velidreth has more burst sure, but in PvE that burst is useless so the 10 second cooldown kills the set. You can still use it, but better to just run a 5 piece Vicious Ophidian/Roar of Alkosh.

In PvP it does have burst, but its currently bugged: works only on flat surfaces. Maybe its intended, maybe not.
But the 20% proc rate in PvP is a lot. I'm wondering whether DoTs proc it or not. The set is very powerful already with the 1 piece bonus, which is way too strong in my opinion.
Then again this set is made for burst and burst only. It is dodgeable (even if its near impossible at close range). If you take it in your face once you won't get a second one straight away. Plus that burst is useless in an outbumbered situation, because it can only occur every 10 seconds. The cooldown is more than you might think, if you dodge roll a Dizzy Swing and Velidreth procs, you get AT LEAST 10 seconds where it won't proc.
In some situations this set is OP, like a few other sets. In others there are better options.

Dracane · August 2016

It's yet another set, that is stamina exclusive and let's magicka stand in the rain once again.
I think, Monster sets should always be neutral and if it's a damage set, then it should be treated like Molag Kena.

This games stamina bias is growing with every update and I think that's very annoying and frustrating.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2016

That set is a perfect example of how to not create gear. If you would lower the damage and remove the cooldown, it could become actually a viable option for sustained damage without allowing too much random burst in pvp.

leepalmer95 · August 2016

Dracane wrote: »

It's yet another set, that is stamina exclusive and let's magicka stand in the rain once again.
I think, Monster sets should always be neutral and if it's a damage set, then it should be treated like Molag Kena.

This games stamina bias is growing with every update and I think that's very annoying and frustrating.

It's the only stamina monster set that deals damage...

Magicka have both skoria and nerineth.

Cronopoly · August 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It's yet another set, that is stamina exclusive and let's magicka stand in the rain once again.
I think, Monster sets should always be neutral and if it's a damage set, then it should be treated like Molag Kena.

This games stamina bias is growing with every update and I think that's very annoying and frustrating.

It's the only stamina monster set that deals damage...

Magicka have both skoria and nerineth.

Stamina characters have everything going for them currently in PVP and this set is just one more razer cut. The damage overall in PVP is so insane anyways this latest one isn't going to make or break anything that already isn't broken. I say ZOS please make more Stamina only burst abilities.

I've said it before, Radiant Destruction is the last nail in the coffin still in the game for magicka Burst execute damage. Nothing else comes close at all for magicka toons and yet there's scores complaining about it obviously becuase just like Stam toons some got killed quick, and we see the same here with Valdereth.

I'm just surprised RD has been left in it's broken LOS state soo long. Or should I be.

So would some want equal parity on nerfs? both a feared powerful Stamina ability nerfed and pick your magicka one? RD is the only one left that causes any pause in Stam toons, and you know it. One damn magicka ability causes pause.

leepalmer95 · August 2016

Cronopoly wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It's yet another set, that is stamina exclusive and let's magicka stand in the rain once again.
I think, Monster sets should always be neutral and if it's a damage set, then it should be treated like Molag Kena.

This games stamina bias is growing with every update and I think that's very annoying and frustrating.

It's the only stamina monster set that deals damage...

Magicka have both skoria and nerineth.

Stamina characters have everything going for them currently in PVP and this set is just one more razer cut. The damage overall in PVP is so insane anyways this latest one isn't going to make or break anything that already isn't broken. I say ZOS please make more Stamina only burst abilities.

I've said it before, Radiant Destruction is the last nail in the coffin still in the game for magicka Burst execute damage. Nothing else comes close at all for magicka toons and yet there's scores complaining about it obviously becuase just like Stam toons some got killed quick, and we see the same here with Valdereth.

I'm just surprised RD has been left in it's broken LOS state soo long. Or should I be.

So would some want equal parity on nerfs? both a feared powerful Stamina ability nerfed and pick your magicka one? RD is the only one left that causes any pause in Stam toons, and you know it. One damn magicka ability causes pause.

Magicka burst? try a ice comet into a fear into a assassins will?

Wifeaggro13 · August 2016

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

20k proc in a dps set up, every 10 seconds, that equals out to a 2,000 Damage over Time
no it should stay

DPS is PVE thing, in pvp burst much more matters and this set have it too much.

And this is were Zos Screwed up in there game design by not having their PVP Stats have seperate Values. This is why stamina and any armor outside of light was useless in PVE for damn near two years.

Cronopoly · August 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Magicka burst? try a ice comet into a fear into a assassins will?

One would hope 3 abilities might hurt. Notwithstanding the blockable one from the start of that chain. Let's stay on topic however.

Minalan · August 2016

If you haven't fought a Stam Nightblade yet with velidreth and viper set, you'll understand. It always ends in instant death, and there's nothing you can do about it.

PS: That combo has an added bonus: 20% chance to unsubscribe an enemy player.

[Snip]

[Edit to remove insulting comment.]

[Snip]

[Edit to remove insulting comment a second time]

Lord_Eomer · August 2016

Players running stamina builds will always oppose opinion to nerf this set, may be newbie still running mage builds but every experience player is now running stamina.

They know stamina is so OP comparing magicka and PVP rules by them..

Players mentioning Nerien'eth set should start using this set themselves as i hardly see anyone running this..

This set is a big jolk, see its proc chance + time

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Xeven The comparison you're making doesn't work at all. They are completely different sets with completely different purposes.

Okay let me explain. This set is the only one that has a 10 second cooldown, making it almost garbage for PvE. I'll get into PvP later.

Nerien'eth: Crystal has 10% proc chance but can be procc'ed every 3 seconds off direct damage attacks because of the fact that the Crystal takes 3 seconds to explode. Therefore its higher DPS than Velidreth. The Crystals are AoE hence the lower damage while Velidreth is single target only hence the higher tooltip.

Valkyn Skoria: this too has a cooldown of 5 seconds, but if you have enough DoTs (usually 4 is plenty) you'll have Meteors flying every 5 seconds. More DPS than Velidreth again. Again Skoria has splash damage so its AoE, it locks onto the target, whereas Velidreth can miss completely and its not AoE.

Velidreth has more burst sure, but in PvE that burst is useless so the 10 second cooldown kills the set. You can still use it, but better to just run a 5 piece Vicious Ophidian/Roar of Alkosh.

In PvP it does have burst, but its currently bugged: works only on flat surfaces. Maybe its intended, maybe not.
But the 20% proc rate in PvP is a lot. I'm wondering whether DoTs proc it or not. The set is very powerful already with the 1 piece bonus, which is way too strong in my opinion.
Then again this set is made for burst and burst only. It is dodgeable (even if its near impossible at close range). If you take it in your face once you won't get a second one straight away. Plus that burst is useless in an outbumbered situation, because it can only occur every 10 seconds. The cooldown is more than you might think, if you dodge roll a Dizzy Swing and Velidreth procs, you get AT LEAST 10 seconds where it won't proc.
In some situations this set is OP, like a few other sets. In others there are better options.

Couldn't be more wrong...the set averages 2.4k dps single target and can be over 3k with adds...it's BiS for PvE

Paneross · August 2016

Great set, not unbalanced at all.

hrothbern · August 2016

Just too bad that you cannot morph the Monster sets into a Stamina and Magicka version.
Valkyn has Flame or Poison morphs like many DK abilities, etc
Makes balancing so much easier

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2016

Stamsorc. Love... This... Set... Just delightful for mobs

NolaArch · August 2016

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone said something about this. You seem to be focusing on 20%>6%; that's not how the overall math works. You have to consider what causes a proc, and cool down.

Let's look at it this way:
You have Jackpot up for grabs. Rolling a 5 earns Jackpot.
At Table A you can roll a 16 sided die for a 6% chance of hitting a five, but you roll 5 times every five seconds per turn. (Because we're taking into account DoTs that are going off that initiate procs)
At Table B you can roll a five sided die for a 20% chance of hitting a five, but you roll once every ten seconds.

The choice is yours whether to play at Table A or Table B. Either way, the odds are relatively evenly favored. What you seem to be asking for is for Table A to keep their rules the same, but asking Table B to also be given a 16 sided die, taking away the 5 sided, with still one roll every ten seconds. That hardly seems fair in comparison.

You can't look at the size of the percentage on a set, fail to take into account the many other variables that are factored into how sets work, and call for a nerf based on that alone.

Izaki · August 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Xeven The comparison you're making doesn't work at all. They are completely different sets with completely different purposes.

Okay let me explain. This set is the only one that has a 10 second cooldown, making it almost garbage for PvE. I'll get into PvP later.

Nerien'eth: Crystal has 10% proc chance but can be procc'ed every 3 seconds off direct damage attacks because of the fact that the Crystal takes 3 seconds to explode. Therefore its higher DPS than Velidreth. The Crystals are AoE hence the lower damage while Velidreth is single target only hence the higher tooltip.

Valkyn Skoria: this too has a cooldown of 5 seconds, but if you have enough DoTs (usually 4 is plenty) you'll have Meteors flying every 5 seconds. More DPS than Velidreth again. Again Skoria has splash damage so its AoE, it locks onto the target, whereas Velidreth can miss completely and its not AoE.

Velidreth has more burst sure, but in PvE that burst is useless so the 10 second cooldown kills the set. You can still use it, but better to just run a 5 piece Vicious Ophidian/Roar of Alkosh.

In PvP it does have burst, but its currently bugged: works only on flat surfaces. Maybe its intended, maybe not.
But the 20% proc rate in PvP is a lot. I'm wondering whether DoTs proc it or not. The set is very powerful already with the 1 piece bonus, which is way too strong in my opinion.
Then again this set is made for burst and burst only. It is dodgeable (even if its near impossible at close range). If you take it in your face once you won't get a second one straight away. Plus that burst is useless in an outbumbered situation, because it can only occur every 10 seconds. The cooldown is more than you might think, if you dodge roll a Dizzy Swing and Velidreth procs, you get AT LEAST 10 seconds where it won't proc.
In some situations this set is OP, like a few other sets. In others there are better options.

Couldn't be more wrong...the set averages 2.4k dps single target and can be over 3k with adds...it's BiS for PvE

@hedna123b14_ESO Yep while Nerien'eth and Skoria are a 3k DPS increase to your current DPS level. Check out Asayre's thread on these two sets. Both of them are AoE too.
Velidreth has a cooldown of 10 seconds right? So thats ~12k every 10 seconds (non-crit only). Skoria deals 8k every 5 seconds. Nerien'eth deals 9k every 3 seconds (5.77 sec). Then if you take crits into consideration, Nerien'eth and Skoria have more chances to crit, because they proc more often. There's just no way Velidreth can out-DPS these two monster sets. And thats without even talking about Molag Kena.
Also Velidreth is single target only, only one spore is supposed to deal damage not all three, unless its bugged.

Thus Velidreth is utter s*** in PvE.

And to correct you, it never will be BiS for PvE. Its 4 Roar of Alkosh + 1 Kena OR 5 Vicious Serpent + TBS + MSA Dagger/Axe + MSA Bow. Why? Alkosh for more damage, Vicious for sustain. If you are the one wearing Nightmother's Gaze in your trial group, well then Velidreth might be a good option (a stam DK or a stam Sorc who know what they are doing will chose Skoria without hesitation).