LarsS wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

1. Sorcs are still strong in the right hands. (Streak and Overload AKA my favorite moves. Sooo many different combos)
2. Depends if you want to go with divines gear or impenetrable gear. I play with Hardened Ward and Healing Ward only, no need to shield stack to survive.
3. Not really. Skill bars stay pretty much the same.

I agree with Izaki sorcs are fine. I also want to point out that sustain is more important than max dammage in pvp.

I would not say that the class is fine because at the moment i can literally count the sorcs i would consider a threat in pvp on one hand for the european megaserver.

If a class only performs well in the hands of very experienced players (that are also dedicated to make it work bc atm it is harder to perform well on a light armor mag build than on any stambuild) - i would definetly NOT say the class is fine.

I think the problem is less with magicka sorc being weak and more with stam builds in general being OP as eff kay.

Sharee wrote: »

I think the problem is less with magicka sorc being weak and more with stam builds in general being OP as eff kay.

True dat.

I would blame it on light armor though. Even templars in light armor are paperbags when their dmg reduction ulti isn´t running.

.

Xeven wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I'm still having fun with my sorc in pvp. Vampire with 5 seducer, 3 willpower, 1 kena, 1 bloodspawn, with vMA destro/resto. 6 impen, 1 infused with defending staves. Stamina draining poisons on the staves. 5 light and 2 heavy. I have over 22k resistances (with boundless storm active) with 1900 crit resist meaning I don't need to panic when my shield goes down. Works well; resources for days but damage is a little lacking. Nice burst is still possible though with use of degeneration and combat prayer.

Sammich, I love you but defending staves make me want to cry. I can't say that I blame you for getting creative, but this is exactly the [SNIP] situation our class has been put into.

I mean really. This is just *** up. Thanks Wroble.

Initially I used them cos it was all I had, but I feel tanky AF if I'm honest. I don't really see why 5k resistances are any less op than 5k penetration, I mean they cancel each other out right? I didn't run vMA for defending staves but now that I have them they fit in with my build nicely. It's kinda pointless me trying to follow the stacked magicka meta as I'm undaunted rank 4. So I decided to try to tank up while still stacking spell dmg as much as poss. It works btw, I feel viable in pvp.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I have a magicka sorc and I have to throw in my voice of dissent against the tide of people saying magicka sorcs suck.

They don't. If you play in BWB or Azura's star and you're a decent player overall, you'll do well and fine with a magicka sorc. My magicka sorc is one of my stronger performers in PVP. I focus on shock damage, crystal procs, as well as having a restoration staff that sustains me very well, using (and spamming as necessary) the restoration staff shield if I get low then heal myself back up.

I don't play in Trueflame though. I only play in non-CP campaigns. Other people can argue about sorc sucking in Trueflame maybe. I have no experience with playing one in CP. But what I will say is that to argue for balance in the CP campaign is an exercise in futility. It's inherently unbalanced.

People saying it's garbage are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassively exaggerating.

Well you don't get burst down so easily on Azura. I wouldn't exactly say Sorc is less powerful on CP campaigns, but CP help damage focused stam builds a lot more, and those hurt.

I call it perfectly fine because champion points are inherently unbalancing. To expect balance where they're present, to me, is futile. I'm not a fan of the champion system in general and wish they had just gotten rid of veteran ranks without replacing them with anything.

For PVE, I can concede that arguments could be made in terms of CP in terms of character progression, but I don't feel like other classes shine way ahead of sorcerers in terms of AE damage potential. I could be wrong, again my sorcerer is only in his mid 30's at the moment, but I don't currently get the impression that a 531 fully geared sorc and a 531 fully geared whatever else will have a huge gap in PVE area damage - which is where I feel sorc excels. Single target, maybe, but eh. Everything has its niche I think. Maybe there's a gap, I just have a hard time buying that it's as dramatic as has been implied.

For PVP, to me it's much more paramount for balance to be achieved (or at least attempted). The veteran system undermined this and the champion system does too, because it creates a significant disparity between players that has nothing to do with skill, a little to do with effective coordination of points (which matters less as more and more champion points inundate the character), and everything to do with time. I feel something like that has zero business in PVP. Call me a PVP socialist, but I look at PVP as player versus player, not player versus other player's obligatory time investment.

So in terms of classes, yes, I would say that magicka sorc is honestly fine. To me, if there's an argument to be made, it's that the champion system is problematic. And this may or may not disproportionately affect certain builds with certain classes, though I do agree (and with some certainty) that as more points are spent, it begins to disproportionately affect and favor burst damage over absolutely everything else, makes tanking less and less relevant, and marginalizes healing.

E-Zekiel wrote: »

I call it perfectly fine because champion points are inherently unbalancing. To expect balance where they're present, to me, is futile. I'm not a fan of the champion system in general and wish they had just gotten rid of veteran ranks without replacing them with anything.

For PVE, I can concede that arguments could be made in terms of CP in terms of character progression, but I don't feel like other classes shine way ahead of sorcerers in terms of AE damage potential. I could be wrong, again my sorcerer is only in his mid 30's at the moment, but I don't currently get the impression that a 531 fully geared sorc and a 531 fully geared whatever else will have a huge gap in PVE area damage - which is where I feel sorc excels. Single target, maybe, but eh. Everything has its niche I think. Maybe there's a gap, I just have a hard time buying that it's as dramatic as has been implied.

For PVP, to me it's much more paramount for balance to be achieved (or at least attempted). The veteran system undermined this and the champion system does too, because it creates a significant disparity between players that has nothing to do with skill, a little to do with effective coordination of points (which matters less as more and more champion points inundate the character), and everything to do with time. I feel something like that has zero business in PVP. Call me a PVP socialist, but I look at PVP as player versus player, not player versus other player's obligatory time investment.

So in terms of classes, yes, I would say that magicka sorc is honestly fine. To me, if there's an argument to be made, it's that the champion system is problematic. And this may or may not disproportionately affect certain builds with certain classes, though I do agree (and with some certainty) that as more points are spent, it begins to disproportionately affect and favor burst damage over absolutely everything else, makes tanking less and less relevant, and marginalizes healing.

Exactly this.

if you're into guild zergs, you're a pretty *** class with a nice root and a game-changing ultimate. You can still do stuff like purge, heal, and so some damage. The ultimate alone makes you worthwhile, the root is, due to the nerf to shuffle, a legitimate reason to be picked over stamsorc (note that there are plenty for reasons in favor of stamsorc as well)

when fighting few (even good) players, they're still strong. especially mines help a LOT, plus shields (and good stmaina management possibly suisng immovable pots) can "outshield" the damage one very good (and a few more worse) players do. e.g. you can duel absolutely fine still.

if you're playing solo, you can still streak away from zergs.

imho this makes the class absolutely playable, however:

it is extremely bad against small groups of rather mediocre players if there are absolutely no friendly players around, you NEED some kind of terrain advantage. your mines won't protect you, and a few scrubs spamming gapcloser are so much more pain than on other classes i play.

the reaons is that shields and mines don't scale. twice enemies mean everyone has to deal with half your def. in comparison dodge, evasion, damage-base heals (vamp, sweeps, sap essence, etc), cloak, wings to some extend scale with the number of enemies and, for example, a single dodge roles protects you from tons of damage if many scrubs tried to snipe yo in that moment.

while this sounds theoretical, it's very real. if i clearly dominate three players 1v1, i have a great chance to take them on 1v3 on my magplar. on my sorc, i may dominate them just has hard, if not even harder 1v1, but the transition into 1vX is often very bad unless i repeatedly streak into the sunset and hope that one of them overextends

Kas wrote: »

if you're into guild zergs, you're a pretty *** class with a nice root and a game-changing ultimate. You can still do stuff like purge, heal, and so some damage. The ultimate alone makes you worthwhile, the root is, due to the nerf to shuffle, a legitimate reason to be picked over stamsorc (note that there are plenty for reasons in favor of stamsorc as well)

when fighting few (even good) players, they're still strong. especially mines help a LOT, plus shields (and good stmaina management possibly suisng immovable pots) can "outshield" the damage one very good (and a few more worse) players do. e.g. you can duel absolutely fine still.

if you're playing solo, you can still streak away from zergs.

imho this makes the class absolutely playable, however:

it is extremely bad against small groups of rather mediocre players if there are absolutely no friendly players around, you NEED some kind of terrain advantage. your mines won't protect you, and a few scrubs spamming gapcloser are so much more pain than on other classes i play.

the reaons is that shields and mines don't scale. twice enemies mean everyone has to deal with half your def. in comparison dodge, evasion, damage-base heals (vamp, sweeps, sap essence, etc), cloak, wings to some extend scale with the number of enemies and, for example, a single dodge roles protects you from tons of damage if many scrubs tried to snipe yo in that moment.

while this sounds theoretical, it's very real. if i clearly dominate three players 1v1, i have a great chance to take them on 1v3 on my magplar. on my sorc, i may dominate them just has hard, if not even harder 1v1, but the transition into 1vX is often very bad unless i repeatedly streak into the sunset and hope that one of them overextends

Well written, this is why stamina > magicka. I'll call it the "jump'n run" aspect of ESO, they want you to do the block and the roll stuff ("jump" means physical action moves). And in many game situations, having stamina is the key to success (except for certain key-skills: dk wings, nb vanish, etc.).
But from this follows that Hardened Ward spamming is still the best magicka-def, on the theory level. I'll not go deeper into it.

Played for a while, in CP + non-CP campaigns alike, just throwing in my .02

MagSorc is absolutely viable (along with every other combination of mag/stam classes) in both PvP and PvE.
You don't have to be the best 1v1 against all types of players, nor the best 1vX to have fun and learn how to play to your own style. There's a large range of situations that you can find yourself in that a magsorc is simply better at... and that's try for every class, every build...

No matter what your build is, you will always run into situations you cannot overcome - take note, learn from it, and move on.

If you realize you aren't having fun or aren't getting better at magsorc, try other things (either change your build, attributes, skills, sets), or try out different play styles... or simply reroll to another class if you just can't make it work for you.

Take my advice with a pinch of salt because, well, I'm not known as Noobcrow for nothing!

I feel mag sorc is ok, at least it's fun for me to play anyway. Been enjoying running around solo with a home brew pet build, decent mit with high shields, I've always drank imov pots like a fish and spammed shields like they are going out of fashion anyway! So not much has changed for that really. Mines mines and moar mines! People are still scared of prox det and they should be, combined with a negate and fury spam and that ever so interesting 5pc set bonus we all love to hate and you can pull off some nice stuff.

Group play is still all right, haven't had much of a chance to experiment here but, again, negate is brilliant. As long as your pet is alive somewhere you can pull off some nice offheals, much better than healing ward in my opinion.

It's interesting to say the least, and that's what's important, right? Doesn't feel a fraction as spammy as these stam builds do right meow, just depends if you want to invest the time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-3s8jRPbo

And this is without a maelstrom staff