ZOS I don't get your ban level system?

yodased · August 2016

The concept of the "does the punishment fit the crime" does not apply to anything other the U.S. penal code.

We don't get to apply what we feel should or should not be a punishment in a video game privately run by a company.

You can be irate all you want, but you are wrong in that we all have exploited in some way like this.

If you know its wrong and not working the right way, don't do it.

Any other argument is simply justifying your reasons for breaking the rules.

And, if they mistakenly printed a 100mph sign and then POSTED that sign, its not a mistake, its the speed limit and all "tickets" would be null and void,

Circular logic to try and defend those who break the rules will always wind up justifying the action somehow, I just don't do that.

My opinion, don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Both arguments are right . ZOS needs to improve quality control 100% . I'm not a "Fanboy" or whatever and will say to them that an hold their toes to the fire . Players need to stop taking advantage of every broken game mechanics too . I hate to see players go cause some are nice people but omg stop cheating guys lol . This is fubar on ZOS and players but can be avoided by the players by not partaking in everything broken . Hoping ZOS will just fix an not punish is just being ignorant now . They are punishing hard for things that seem small to some people . As @ZOS_JessicaFolsom said , if it feels like cheating don't do it . An if you don't like this , like @ZOS_RichLambert said , you know you don't have to be here right ?

SRIBES · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

The concept of the "does the punishment fit the crime" does not apply to anything other the U.S. penal code.

We don't get to apply what we feel should or should not be a punishment in a video game privately run by a company.

You can be irate all you want, but you are wrong in that we all have exploited in some way like this.

If you know its wrong and not working the right way, don't do it.

Any other argument is simply justifying your reasons for breaking the rules.

And, if they mistakenly printed a 100mph sign and then POSTED that sign, its not a mistake, its the speed limit and all "tickets" would be null and void,

Circular logic to try and defend those who break the rules will always wind up justifying the action somehow, I just don't do that.

My opinion, don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

Zenimax was informed that gap closers were bugged back in the Dark Brotherhood PTS, yet they still pushed out the patch. People were exploiting into keeps for over a month but it wasn't until we were half way through the DLC that ZOS decided to post a thread on the alliance war forum stating that it is an exploit. The majority of players do not go on the forums. Let's make up a theoretical situation really quick. A new player to the game goes into cyrodiil and isn't aware of this rule ZOS put on the forums, he gap closes up to a keep and gets mass reported. The next day he tries to get on and it says he is permanently banned, now he's out $30 or whatever it is ESO costs. There are players I personally know who are now permanently banned because they accidently clicked their gap close and went into a keep and they had no other previous offenses.

While this is happening, players like Sypher can freely gap close into keeps without being banned because he is pretty much free advertising for ZOS. Players who gap closed into keeps should be unbanned on the stature of favoritism. However, I can see a 72 hour suspension being reasonable for gap closing into a keep since it is an exploit. Players who literally used cheat engine are unbanned. Meanwhile Zenimax refuses to help anyone over customer support and won't even read account appeals. ZOS makes no sense.

NBrookus · August 2016

I am very disappointed that ZOS ever unbanned verified CE users. But I think we are seeing the results of ZOS changing their policies to get tougher on cheaters & exploiters and perhaps those earlier cheaters would not get off as easy now.

The fact the ZOS continues to release massively buggy content and then not fix those bugs in a timely manner when reported on PTS is another issue entirely.

Sandman929 · August 2016

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

yodased · August 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

antihero727 · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

It's not that simple, it's favoritism and bias. I knew one of the salvation exploiters that got perma banned and this was his first offense. If it was strait across the board even for all players I would be ok but this you are ok but you are not is what I have an issue with.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So back when Lethal Arrow was applying stacking heal debuffs up to 100%, you are saying the right and moral thing do to as players would be to take the skill off your bar and never use it?

In that case, it was an exploit, i.e. working not as intended. So hitting the same player with lethal arrow would be exploiting broken gaming mechanics. Gotta make sure you wait four seconds before using lethal arrow again or perma-ban.

Do you see how ridiculous this can get?

I'm not going to change my build or be super careful how I use skills just because ZOS can't fix their game.

People that used broken skils, OP sets, etc dont really bother me. Its the people that are STILL in this game that are CONFIRMED cheaters and go around thinking they are actually skilled. Those people bother me.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

There really should be no favoritism for streamers either . Punishment should be same for all . I don't know why people keep mentioning streamers get special treatment because aim not aware of the exact incidents referring but I do not think it's fair to punish anyone one way an someone else another because popular .

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There really should be no favoritism for streamers either . Punishment should be same for all . I don't know why people keep mentioning streamers get special treatment because aim not aware of the exact incidents referring but I do not think it's fair to punish anyone one way an someone else another because popular .

I've seem most well known streamers use crit rush to move up vertical terrain. Maybe that's because its REALLY easy to do even on accident because gap closer code is so broken right now.

But yeah lets ban players for programming mistakes.

Remember when gap closers actually worked, didn't snare/root/silence and didn't let you fly?

Pepperridge Farm remembers.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There really should be no favoritism for streamers either . Punishment should be same for all . I don't know why people keep mentioning streamers get special treatment because aim not aware of the exact incidents referring but I do not think it's fair to punish anyone one way an someone else another because popular .

I've seem most well known streamers use crit rush to move up vertical terrain. Maybe that's because its REALLY easy to do even on accident because gap closer code is so broken right now.

But yeah lets ban players for programming mistakes.

Remember when gap closers actually worked, didn't snare/root/silence and didn't let you fly?

Pepperridge Farm remembers.

If you think I don't think ZOS made huge mistake releasing gap close broken on live you are mistaken my friend . I kid around a lot so maybe misunderstood . If it was my game I would of done rollback before ban on gap closer . Perma ban for CE no appeals . Long suspensions for using werewolf bug exploit for personal gain . It's not my game . If it was many wouldn't be so unhappy about justice both ways .

Magus · August 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There really should be no favoritism for streamers either . Punishment should be same for all . I don't know why people keep mentioning streamers get special treatment because aim not aware of the exact incidents referring but I do not think it's fair to punish anyone one way an someone else another because popular .

I've seem most well known streamers use crit rush to move up vertical terrain. Maybe that's because its REALLY easy to do even on accident because gap closer code is so broken right now.

But yeah lets ban players for programming mistakes.

Remember when gap closers actually worked, didn't snare/root/silence and didn't let you fly?

Pepperridge Farm remembers.

I remember using invasion on sorcs streaking away and they could actually get away because there was no mini-stun/snare. It actually took some skill to keep gap closing them without them getting away. Since streak cost increase is in place and the days of infinite streaks are gone unless you are a CE user, I see no reason for this mini-stun/snare to still exist in this game.

To the OP, I see no reason for a perma-ban for a first time offender. It would be cool to see a login pop-up like those crown store notices to these players, like we've observed you doing X, stop immediately or you will be banned. If they continue to whatever observed behavior after that, then ban them mercilessly. Don't worry, they will come back to the game with no accounts and say they forgot their password to their original account and tell us to L2P again in no time

yodased · August 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So back when Lethal Arrow was applying stacking heal debuffs up to 100%, you are saying the right and moral thing do to as players would be to take the skill off your bar and never use it?

In that case, it was an exploit, i.e. working not as intended. So hitting the same player with lethal arrow would be exploiting broken gaming mechanics. Gotta make sure you wait four seconds before using lethal arrow again or perma-ban.

Do you see how ridiculous this can get?

I'm not going to change my build or be super careful how I use skills just because ZOS can't fix their game.

People that used broken skils, OP sets, etc dont really bother me. Its the people that are STILL in this game that are CONFIRMED cheaters and go around thinking they are actually skilled. Those people bother me.

Again, strawman extrapolated out to try and make things justified.

I can't speak on anyone's punishment because I am not them and I don't know what happened, and even if you "know" said person, you don't know the details of what the report was, the evidence provided and the context of what the problem was.

If said person realized that he has 100k weapondamage in pvp and then he goes on a killing spree willy nilly, one-shotting everyone around him in a zerg, then yes take that *** off your bar.

The thing is with lethal arrow stacking health debuffs, that isn't something that you could legitimately "see" as easily as having 100k weapon damage.

Being sensationalist won't help here, it's a black and white matter.

You are arguing over what is fair and not within punishment, but you will not look at what is fair or not within the choices you make in game.

See it sucks when you get "unfairly" treated by people that have a perceived power above you, doesn't it?

Accidentally gap closing into a keep isn't getting you banned, what you do after you get into that keep is.

Every argument surrounding the "unfair" punishment of any player is personal bias and emotion, you don't get it both ways.

I literally will never be banned from this game because I NEVER do ANYTHING that could be even considered exploitative, especially of the emotions of other players.

If you do, then you are risking consequence. It is difficult for me to understand how this is not accepted.

Sandman929 · August 2016

Is the injustice really so rampant? It's arduous enough getting rampant exploiting punished, I doubt there is a sea of poor innocents getting their Tamriel passports revoked.

I report, with video, regularly. So I don't think "It was an accident! For all 8 of us, it was an accident!" is going to hold up...or at least it shouldn't hold up.

antihero727 · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So back when Lethal Arrow was applying stacking heal debuffs up to 100%, you are saying the right and moral thing do to as players would be to take the skill off your bar and never use it?

In that case, it was an exploit, i.e. working not as intended. So hitting the same player with lethal arrow would be exploiting broken gaming mechanics. Gotta make sure you wait four seconds before using lethal arrow again or perma-ban.

Do you see how ridiculous this can get?

I'm not going to change my build or be super careful how I use skills just because ZOS can't fix their game.

People that used broken skils, OP sets, etc dont really bother me. Its the people that are STILL in this game that are CONFIRMED cheaters and go around thinking they are actually skilled. Those people bother me.

Again, strawman extrapolated out to try and make things justified.

I can't speak on anyone's punishment because I am not them and I don't know what happened, and even if you "know" said person, you don't know the details of what the report was, the evidence provided and the context of what the problem was.

If said person realized that he has 100k weapondamage in pvp and then he goes on a killing spree willy nilly, one-shotting everyone around him in a zerg, then yes take that *** off your bar.

The thing is with lethal arrow stacking health debuffs, that isn't something that you could legitimately "see" as easily as having 100k weapon damage.

Being sensationalist won't help here, it's a black and white matter.

You are arguing over what is fair and not within punishment, but you will not look at what is fair or not within the choices you make in game.

See it sucks when you get "unfairly" treated by people that have a perceived power above you, doesn't it?

Accidentally gap closing into a keep isn't getting you banned, what you do after you get into that keep is.

Every argument surrounding the "unfair" punishment of any player is personal bias and emotion, you don't get it both ways.

I literally will never be banned from this game because I NEVER do ANYTHING that could be even considered exploitative, especially of the emotions of other players.

If you do, then you are risking consequence. It is difficult for me to understand how this is not accepted.

Panda that is you right? No one else I know could be so self righteous.

Sandman929 · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

If you do, then you are risking consequence. It is difficult for me to understand how this is not accepted.

On a magblade, I've gap closed through more than a few doors. I stand there and take my well deserved beating for being stupid enough to Teleport toward someone at a door...if I'm not killed upon entering, I get the hell out.
Anyone witnessing me, feel free to record and report. I doubt I'll be banned for attacking no one.

yodased · August 2016

antihero727 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So back when Lethal Arrow was applying stacking heal debuffs up to 100%, you are saying the right and moral thing do to as players would be to take the skill off your bar and never use it?

In that case, it was an exploit, i.e. working not as intended. So hitting the same player with lethal arrow would be exploiting broken gaming mechanics. Gotta make sure you wait four seconds before using lethal arrow again or perma-ban.

Do you see how ridiculous this can get?

I'm not going to change my build or be super careful how I use skills just because ZOS can't fix their game.

People that used broken skils, OP sets, etc dont really bother me. Its the people that are STILL in this game that are CONFIRMED cheaters and go around thinking they are actually skilled. Those people bother me.

Again, strawman extrapolated out to try and make things justified.

I can't speak on anyone's punishment because I am not them and I don't know what happened, and even if you "know" said person, you don't know the details of what the report was, the evidence provided and the context of what the problem was.

If said person realized that he has 100k weapondamage in pvp and then he goes on a killing spree willy nilly, one-shotting everyone around him in a zerg, then yes take that *** off your bar.

The thing is with lethal arrow stacking health debuffs, that isn't something that you could legitimately "see" as easily as having 100k weapon damage.

Being sensationalist won't help here, it's a black and white matter.

You are arguing over what is fair and not within punishment, but you will not look at what is fair or not within the choices you make in game.

See it sucks when you get "unfairly" treated by people that have a perceived power above you, doesn't it?

Accidentally gap closing into a keep isn't getting you banned, what you do after you get into that keep is.

Every argument surrounding the "unfair" punishment of any player is personal bias and emotion, you don't get it both ways.

I literally will never be banned from this game because I NEVER do ANYTHING that could be even considered exploitative, especially of the emotions of other players.

If you do, then you are risking consequence. It is difficult for me to understand how this is not accepted.

Panda that is you right? No one else I know could be so self righteous.

Panda wishes he could be me

vamp_emily · August 2016

I think if the player(s) want to come back, they should be tried in court somewhere in Tamriel. A representative from ZOS will explain the case against the cheater, and the cheater has opportunity to say a few words before his death.

Let the people of Tamriel vote, if they should be perma-banned. I for one hate cheaters. I don't care if it is using the CE or simply taking a scroll out of a keep with a friends help.

However, I do have a heart of gold, and would hate to see someone banned for a simple mistake.

Publius_Scipio · August 2016

Who cares, its an online video game. You already know who they are so why do you care? People since forever have cheated. School exams, sports, games, children's party magicians, etc. I'd rather have them around so I can create stories.

I mean look what happened the other day. Some stalker infiltrated the TS of a known cheater (now unbanned) took a clip of some conversation and everyone on the forums laughed. After that embarrassment the former cheater posts a picture of himself with butterflies on his hair. Do you have any idea how even more embarrassing that is? What more do you people want?

antihero727 · August 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Who cares, its an online video game. You already know who they are so why do you care? People since forever have cheated. School exams, sports, games, children's party magicians, etc. I'd rather have them around so I can create stories.

I mean look what happened the other day. Some stalker infiltrated the TS of a known cheater (now unbanned) took a clip of some conversation and everyone on the forums laughed. After that embarrassment the former cheater posts a picture of himself with butterflies on his hair. Do you have any idea how even more embarrassing that is? What more do you people want?

I want a list of skills and mechanics that the broken list is shorter than the working list (working as intended does not count).

Sandman929 · August 2016

We could make a list of existing exploits that ZOS has explicitly pointed out as being ban-worthy.
So far I've got:
1)Gap closing into keeps/outposts bypassing the capture mechanics.
2)CE

Did I miss anything?

redspecter23 · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Sandman929 · August 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Not up to me, but I'd say no. I've done that many many times. Don't kill anyone, just stand there and die.

Publius_Scipio · August 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

We could make a list of existing exploits that ZOS has explicitly pointed out as being ban-worthy.
So far I've got:
1)Gap closing into keeps/outposts bypassing the capture mechanics.
2)CE

Did I miss anything?

3) Blood doping like Lance Armstrong. Allows players to have the stamina to stay awake for 18 hrs straight to make emp.

redspecter23 · August 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Not up to me, but I'd say no. I've done that many many times. Don't kill anyone, just stand there and die.

Well according to many in this thread, you are an exploiter and should be permabanned. You even admitted it. Many might be reporting you for your actions right now.

yodased · August 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Again, strawman extrapolation of what is happening.

You are not going to be permabanned for gap closing into a keep. They don't even know you do it, you have to be recorded and then submitted to ZOS before they even can act on it.

There is not one person here who I will legitimately believe 'accidentally' gets inside a keep by using broken code, then LEAVES or DIES will be banned.

It just won't happen.

No, what happens is this:

Click gap closer, accidentally get inside keep.

oooooh, well I'm here anyway, let me go ahead and set up siege, kill all the npcs, maybe farm some lowbies.

I mean, its ZOS fault I'm in here right, I didn't do anything wrong, so everything I do that is against the rules now is negated by the fact that the initial rule breaking was accidental.

I'm tired of the exploitative people saying they are getting banned for accidentally clicking a gap closer.

You aren't, and if you say you are, then you either are seriously delusional, or lying.

Sandman929 · August 2016

Feel free. I never end a "misclick" by trying to kill everyone in sight.

redspecter23 · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Again, strawman extrapolation of what is happening.

You are not going to be permabanned for gap closing into a keep. They don't even know you do it, you have to be recorded and then submitted to ZOS before they even can act on it.

There is not one person here who I will legitimately believe 'accidentally' gets inside a keep by using broken code, then LEAVES or DIES will be banned.

It just won't happen.

No, what happens is this:

Click gap closer, accidentally get inside keep.

oooooh, well I'm here anyway, let me go ahead and set up siege, kill all the npcs, maybe farm some lowbies.

I mean, its ZOS fault I'm in here right, I didn't do anything wrong, so everything I do that is against the rules now is negated by the fact that the initial rule breaking was accidental.

I'm tired of the exploitative people saying they are getting banned for accidentally clicking a gap closer.

You aren't, and if you say you are, then you either are seriously delusional, or lying.

You claim nobody is getting permabanned for a misclick. If that's true, then there is no problem. I know of multiple people that have been permabanned lately. No reasons are given by ZoS. No appeals are allowed. Just permaban. I can't say for sure if they are innocent, but they have no idea what they did that resulted in a permaban. These things are happening whether you see them or not.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

We could make a list of existing exploits that ZOS has explicitly pointed out as being ban-worthy.
So far I've got:
1)Gap closing into keeps/outposts bypassing the capture mechanics.
2)CE

Did I miss anything?

Only the first one is bannable. The second one you just cry on the phone and if the CS rep "likes you" (and you buy a lot of crown store stuff) they apologise and unban you as long as you promise to maybe not use CE again.

Sandman929 · August 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Doesn't matter when they knew about it. Doesn't matter if they released it broken. None of the whining matters if you get banned for behavior that you know could get you banned.
Just don't do it.

It's just that simple.

So if I accidentally gap close into a keep one time by misclicking, a permaban is ok?

Again, strawman extrapolation of what is happening.

You are not going to be permabanned for gap closing into a keep. They don't even know you do it, you have to be recorded and then submitted to ZOS before they even can act on it.

There is not one person here who I will legitimately believe 'accidentally' gets inside a keep by using broken code, then LEAVES or DIES will be banned.

It just won't happen.

No, what happens is this:

Click gap closer, accidentally get inside keep.

oooooh, well I'm here anyway, let me go ahead and set up siege, kill all the npcs, maybe farm some lowbies.

I mean, its ZOS fault I'm in here right, I didn't do anything wrong, so everything I do that is against the rules now is negated by the fact that the initial rule breaking was accidental.

I'm tired of the exploitative people saying they are getting banned for accidentally clicking a gap closer.

You aren't, and if you say you are, then you either are seriously delusional, or lying.

You claim nobody is getting permabanned for a misclick. If that's true, then there is no problem. I know of multiple people that have been permabanned lately. No reasons are given by ZoS. No appeals are allowed. Just permaban. I can't say for sure if they are innocent, but they have no idea what they did that resulted in a permaban. These things are happening whether you see them or not.

If I had to guess I'd say someone reported those multiple people accompanied by video evidence of behavior that ZOS thought warranted a ban. But if you're waiting for them to cop to the behavior and admit that they did something deserving of the punishment, you might want to take a chair.