ZOS I don't get your ban level system?

antihero727

I have never felt so strongly about anything in this game to make a post about it but there is a first time for everything. Today I have herd about several bans for the werewolf exploit that resulted in perma bans. I get that there needs to be justice for cheating but how are you going to perma ban for an item set that ZOS is responsible for bugging? I understand perma banning for 3rd party software, RL threats, sexual or racial harassment and other things in this relm. The people using exploited gap closers, broken sets, and broken mechanics should receive a temp ban of different lengths. To perma ban for YOUR BROKEN MECHANICS is just morally wrong and IMO quite the shortcut on fixing the plaguing issues (Most have in some form or another been here since launch)of this game. There have been many bans for usual mechanics such as the rash of speed hack bans for a lot of nightblades in VMA just for using VO and speed sig. Everyone calls for "Off with their heads" when just a hand might do esp for a first offense. I don't expect an official response besides a thread closer and some empty green words but needed to put my 2 cents in.

Rohamad_Ali

Rekt

Farming insightfuls . Also , send sexytyme snapchat photos to ZOS for unbanning

Perpetuation

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Rekt

Farming insightfuls . Also , send sexytyme snapchat photos to ZOS for unbanning

If that's what Mr. Axis power country guy really looks like then I'll take his sexytime photos any day

Armitas

I think they should have to have video evidence of gap closing in keeps. Sometimes you gap close someone headed to a door and bam you're now inside the keep. It happens, and if people hate you they will report you even though it's not intended.

SirAndy

1. Paragraphs save posts.
2. If you put on a new set of armor and you suddenly pull 100k+ DPS and you keep playing with that setup, the consequences of your actions is 100% on you.

Doesn't matter how that armor set got bugged. You're knowingly exploiting an in-game bug.

Rohamad_Ali

Perpetuation wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Rekt

Farming insightfuls . Also , send sexytyme snapchat photos to ZOS for unbanning

If that's what Mr. Axis power country guy really looks like then I'll take his sexytime photos any day

Only a true Lady's Man can make cool with the butterflies hairdue pics . Probably even pull off pink Tshirt look as this one is too ruggedly ugly to do himself . Only butterflies pic I Rohamad could muster is if one landed on Brawny paper towel held in arms . So I never cheat as my snapchat probably frightening ZOS into perma IP banning policy .

Wreuntzylla

Armitas wrote: »

I think they should have to have video evidence of gap closing in keeps. Sometimes you gap close someone headed to a door and bam you're now inside the keep. It happens, and if people hate you they will report you even though it's not intended.

ZoS knows better than to ban based solely on complaints. You don't want to stay banned, run up the stairs and run out. Don't start killing people all over the keep... then get zerged and come back and do it again...

Ban them all ZoS.

LegendaryChef

Use cheat engine = temp ban
Use Zose's failure to code in your own favour = Perma ban

If anyone can see the logic plz feel free to mail me in private!

antihero727

SirAndy wrote: »

1. Paragraphs save posts.
2. If you put on a new set of armor and you suddenly pull 100k+ DPS and you keep playing with that setup, the consequences of your actions is 100% on you.

Doesn't matter how that armor set got bugged. You're knowingly exploiting an in-game bug.

The point is that we still have CE and other programs being used, they are still here. In game bugs are the company's fault in the end. Why should we police ourselves because of them being to cheap to hire enough staff to handle there dlc schedule. If it was 1-2 bugs I get it but almost anything you do in pvp anymore could be exploiting an in game bug. Gap closer, heavy attack spear perma knockdown, viper set, scroll in sewer. Might be easier to type the things that work properly.

Lord_Hev

Yeah, these perma bans are getting out of hand. The day people get banned for the developer's own incompotence...

RinaldoGandolphi

Good job ZOS cheaters should never get anything and in this case shouldn't have an account they don't deserve to be allowed to play here

SirAndy

antihero727 wrote: »

Why should we police ourselves

If you have to ask ...

Ackwalan

Someone without a twitch channel = ban.
Someone with a twitch channel = do whatever you want.

Kas

i missed that bug, i guess. now it seems it's fixed, so can someone delight me what happened there?

Armitas

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I think they should have to have video evidence of gap closing in keeps. Sometimes you gap close someone headed to a door and bam you're now inside the keep. It happens, and if people hate you they will report you even though it's not intended.

ZoS knows better than to...

There's your problem right there.

Having played this game since beta I have lost all faith and trust in the system at ZOS to act correctly or make quality changes. I have faith and trust in many of the employees, but none in the ZOS system. I mean that for many aspects of the game, not just the banning system.

Mustard

It's simple. You use cheat engine and then call into support like German did to get someone to relate to you....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X159ibyyiA&feature=share

SRIBES

Free Lemur

Mustard

SRIBES wrote: »

Free Lemur

I agree and don't get it. You have the following going on:

1. People used cheat engine and getting un-banned
2. People creating new accounts after they get banned for using cheat engine and even when reported nothing happens
3. People using multiple racial passives exploit
4. People are still using cheat engine just a little more subtle about it like they did before the big wave. This tells me they really can't tell when people are using unless you have a shadowplay of them doing it

But if you get gap close its a perma ban and all the above is just ignored.

yodased

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

Armitas

There are guides on the internet on how to get unbanned from ZOS. There should be an appeal system but it appears to be either too easily circumvented or there is so little initial evidence that simple conversation can overcome it. Either way you know there is something wrong when there are guides on how to win the appeals process.

We all want forgiveness because we all fail at times, but there also needs to be discretion over the person being salvageable or unsalvagable. (general reference, not referring to recent topics or players). I do not think a player that uses a third party program like CE is a salvageable player. In criminal behavior there are techniques called techniques of neutralization. These are psychological tricks that people use to justify their wrong or illegal behavior or to overcome their innate social morality. Yodased mentioned one "everyone else is doing it". There are many techniques used but they are not all equal in guilt. There are some even good people use, like those that go 5 over the speed limit and there are those who commit murder because someone slept with their wife. You can base a salvageable person based on their level of convincing via the techniques of neutralization. The techniques of neutralization don't even get used by someone using the CE. There is no way to internally justify CE and feel socially moral about it; people who use CE are not salvageable players and have no social morality that would allow them participate in the community as anything other than a shark.

Salvageable people should be temporarily banned. UnSalvageable people, or people who just don't care and don't even need the techniques of neutralization should be IP banned.

antihero727

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

Not the same. What you have is a fake no tolerance policy on exploiting. There were quite a few that used this but only a few got perma banned while others got a warning letter, some got nothing. We still have 3rd party software users, what makes a set of broken stat armor worse than a hacker in a game? That is the whole point of this post is if they used CE to get those results, knew a sympathetic ear in customer support, or had a stream would the outcome be the same? Is it a ban hammer dartboard or a magic 8 ball of banning.

yodased

antihero727 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

Not the same. What you have is a fake no tolerance policy on exploiting. There were quite a few that used this but only a few got perma banned while others got a warning letter, some got nothing. We still have 3rd party software users, what makes a set of broken stat armor worse than a hacker in a game? That is the whole point of this post is if they used CE to get those results, knew a sympathetic ear in customer support, or had a stream would the outcome be the same? Is it a ban hammer dartboard or a magic 8 ball of banning.

This is conjecture and speculation at best, slander at worst.

You don't know any of the things you are talking about, and even if you DID you could not present it in this "court of forums" as evidence per the naming and shaming policy.

The point is the rules are the rules and you follow them because they are the rules, not because there may be indifferent punishment or consequence for other people.

Those people are not you, those people are irrelevant to your behavior. Sure you may use precedent to argue that your behavior was to be expected and plead down the punishment, but you still broke the damn rules.

How is this not a simple thing to understand? Rules are not to be broken, they are meant to be followed.

If someone else breaks the rules and gets away with it, that does not mean that its ok for you to.

antihero727

yodased wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

Not the same. What you have is a fake no tolerance policy on exploiting. There were quite a few that used this but only a few got perma banned while others got a warning letter, some got nothing. We still have 3rd party software users, what makes a set of broken stat armor worse than a hacker in a game? That is the whole point of this post is if they used CE to get those results, knew a sympathetic ear in customer support, or had a stream would the outcome be the same? Is it a ban hammer dartboard or a magic 8 ball of banning.

This is conjecture and speculation at best, slander at worst.

You don't know any of the things you are talking about, and even if you DID you could not present it in this "court of forums" as evidence per the naming and shaming policy.

The point is the rules are the rules and you follow them because they are the rules, not because there may be indifferent punishment or consequence for other people.

Those people are not you, those people are irrelevant to your behavior. Sure you may use precedent to argue that your behavior was to be expected and plead down the punishment, but you still broke the damn rules.

How is this not a simple thing to understand? Rules are not to be broken, they are meant to be followed.

If someone else breaks the rules and gets away with it, that does not mean that its ok for you to.

They should be punished but the ease of some and the ban hammer of others is the only thing I have issues with. If it's zero tolerance then it should be the same across the board. In your world a speeding ticket is paid with the electric chair.

Sandman929

It seems to me the exploiters on NA Xbox1 are being dealt with, but it's hard to be positive. I send in a new video every few days of some gap closer exploiters, and lately I haven't seen some of those folks. Could be they moved, or could be they're gone.

PeggymoeXD

Triggered beyond belief honestly. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that CE users are able to return but people who could 100% unintentionally exploit are being perma-banned. What in the absolute "snip" are ZOS' logic behind that?

J'skaar Habasi

I'm probably in the minority, but I agree with the author's point. The punishment should fit the crime.

As far as I can tell, this issue was first reported on August 4 and promptly fixed the very next day. Within the post that first mentioned this issue, ZOS was vague about what any potential penalty would be. Within that August 4 post, a user posted ZOS' description of a tiered penalty system with perma bans for cheat engine users and a lower penalty for first time offenders.

If ZOS is now handing out perma bans for exploits, then we're all in trouble. Everyone of us has used some form of exploit at one time or another. I've seen you DKs use that leap to get inside keeps, you've used the 2H axe for the 100% bleed, you used trap beast to farm your spell power cure set, you've stacked Vamp sneak speed, you've healed through keep walls, you gained that former emperor title by buying a crap ton of repair kits, you grind XP instead of doing the quests. We've all cheated and taken advantage of ZOS' original intent.

If you're caught driving 100 mph, you don't lose your right to drive the rest of your life. Get caught stealing, you don't get a death penalty. Some Tyro having some *** and giggles one night should not be penalized as if she were a cheat engine user. If you used this exploit to disrupt a trial leaderboard, the penalty should be harsher than the Tyro, still not the same as the cheat engine user. Don't be fooled, this is ZOS' misguided attempt to prove that they're taking action against cheaters and appease the pitchfork and torch crowd here.

Sandman929

The various tiers of cheating is a hilarious concept. If it's an exploit, don't do it. You might get a slap on the wrist or you might get the hammer. You'll get neither if you don't do it.
The videos I send in are in no way "unintentional" exploiting, so I hope the **** and giggles were worth it.

GottbeardESO

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

If you are going to tell a hypothetical story to represent this situation, then at least make it accurate.

The city screws up and prints 100 MPH speed limit road signs. Then instead of publicly announcing the snafu and immediately working to undo the mistake, they print a pamphlet and leave it at the DMV stating the drivers should of known better than to drive 100 MPH. They then use traffic cams to identify drivers andmail out notices to every driver who followed the erroneous speed limit informing them that their licenses have been permanently revoked. Furthermore, they refuse to say why or to communicate any further. Meanwhile, murderers are killing people on the side of the road in broad daylight and not being taken to jail.

There you go. That is a more accurate hypothetical.

Armitas

GottbeardESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

If you are going to tell a hypothetical story to represent this situation, then at least make it accurate.

The city screws up and prints 100 MPH speed limit road signs. Then instead of publicly announcing the snafu and immediately working to undo the mistake, they print a pamphlet and leave it at the DMV stating the drivers should of known better than to drive 100 MPH. They then use traffic cams to identify drivers andmail out notices to every driver who followed the erroneous speed limit informing them that their licenses have been permanently revoked. Furthermore, they refuse to say why or to communicate any further. Meanwhile, murderers are killing people on the side of the road in broad daylight and not being taken to jail.

There you go. That is a more accurate hypothetical.

Please tell me this never happened in reality. If so then Giant Meteor 2016.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Armitas wrote: »

GottbeardESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

If you are going to tell a hypothetical story to represent this situation, then at least make it accurate.

The city screws up and prints 100 MPH speed limit road signs. Then instead of publicly announcing the snafu and immediately working to undo the mistake, they print a pamphlet and leave it at the DMV stating the drivers should of known better than to drive 100 MPH. They then use traffic cams to identify drivers andmail out notices to every driver who followed the erroneous speed limit informing them that their licenses have been permanently revoked. Furthermore, they refuse to say why or to communicate any further. Meanwhile, murderers are killing people on the side of the road in broad daylight and not being taken to jail.

There you go. That is a more accurate hypothetical.

Please tell me this never happened in reality. If so then Giant Meteor 2016.

It never happens in reality because every other company that exists in the real world, and even the government, has higher quality and consistency standards than ZOS.

You would never put up with cell phone service this terrible. Would you go to a movie where half of the movie was freezing on the screen and 10FPS. Or where the theater allows people to bring in alcohol and smoke right in your face but then kicks you out for coughing during the film because the manager knows the kids who smoke?

For some reason, we set the bar so low for game companies, and specifically MMO developers that they just don't feel they have to hold themselves to any sort of standards like EVERY OTHER industry in the world has to. Imagine if game developers had to follow ISO standards like other industries had to.

Here is a fun list of historical (fixed) Exploits in this game that were cause by ZOS's poor quality standards and their inability to respond to PTS feedback.

Note that NO ONE was banned for using any of these. Try to think what you as a player would have to give up in order not to be banned if ZOS had decided to ban for any of those I listed. For example, when lethal arrow stacked heal debuffs, you would literally have to unslot the skill in order to comply with ZOS's current standards of ban-able offenses.

ZOS, it is unreasonable for you to expect your playerbase to avoid using the bugged skills you yourself allowed into the game due to poor QA and not listening to the hoards of helpful PTS testers that tell you things are broken before you stubbornly plug your ears say "LALALA BEST MMO 2015!!!1!" and launch the game anyway.

There is a chasm of a difference between people who use memory hooks and third party cheats and those who just play your buggy game and accept the fact that gap closers now make you fly. If you can't understand the difference, have your employees take a ethics class.

Armitas

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

GottbeardESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

1. If you don't know right from wrong, learn it.
2. see 1.

Example:

drive on highway, everyone going 100mph, would you too? Probably. Then you get picked out the pack.

You: but, but, but, but officer, everyone on the road was going 100mph so I thought it was ok.
Him: You are dumb.

There is never a time where you can blame someone else for your own poor choices. NEVER.

It literally doesn't matter in any way about any one else's punishment here because buddy the shoe is on the other foot.

You don't consider other peoples feelings in your exploitative behavior, ZOS will not consider your feelings in the consequence of that behavior.

Don't like it? Pound sand.

If you are going to tell a hypothetical story to represent this situation, then at least make it accurate.

The city screws up and prints 100 MPH speed limit road signs. Then instead of publicly announcing the snafu and immediately working to undo the mistake, they print a pamphlet and leave it at the DMV stating the drivers should of known better than to drive 100 MPH. They then use traffic cams to identify drivers andmail out notices to every driver who followed the erroneous speed limit informing them that their licenses have been permanently revoked. Furthermore, they refuse to say why or to communicate any further. Meanwhile, murderers are killing people on the side of the road in broad daylight and not being taken to jail.

There you go. That is a more accurate hypothetical.

Please tell me this never happened in reality. If so then Giant Meteor 2016.

It never happens in reality because every other company that exists in the real world, and even the government, has higher quality and consistency standards than ZOS.

You would never put up with cell phone service this terrible. Would you go to a movie where half of the movie was freezing on the screen and 10FPS. Or where the theater allows people to bring in alcohol and smoke right in your face but then kicks you out for coughing during the film because the manager knows the kids who smoke?

I would never go to that theater again. I would even drive to the next city over. Unfortunately for me this is the only theater in the world playing Star Wars. It's the only MMO putting out this style, atmosphere, and tone of content. For now anyway...but as soon as a new theater opens up that plays star wars I will see if they offer a better facility. There is only one game on the horizon that matches it but it's far out on the horizon. So they have my sub for now, they have my love for the game, but not my faith or my hope in the systems ability to provide it.

(I have faith and hope in certain members of ZOS, just not the system of ZOS, some of them I think are outstanding in the industry like Gina and Jessica, to name a few, whose posting count even exceeds my own)