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Why I dont tank trials.
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not tried trials (due to not enough people in my guidl interested in them, most pvp) but saptank is super strong.
I can tank every dungeon in the game with no healer. No heals outside of my own skills and no shards or repentance. Often run imperial City prison like it. I've even had to solo valkyn skoria (pre nerf) from 40% health with no platforms and got the job done. Not sure another class could do that.
I can honestly never drop block. Constantly getting aggro, healing a fair beat and pulling a lot of dps for a tank all with block up 100% if I want to.
Tru trials ;')
Surely all a nb is lacking in trials is chains? Ult gain is super potent on a nb so Tava's on it would be even more uptime on warhorn. It'd dodge chance even adds minor resistances and it magica based. I've tank on both and find nb resource management head and shoulders above Dk.Edited by Brrrofski on August 11, 2016 6:58AM1 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »1 the best gear does come from trials, dunno what to tell you.
2 if you're talking about vr12 atherian archive idk what to tell you. stop making excuses for your build. If that's how you want to play, more power to you. But to be blunt, if the game was redesigned for 1 oddball player's unsustainable build I'd quit this game in a heartbeat. Dont think I'll be alone either.
second, the current [meta' isn't about castig magma armour, it's about casting warhorn.
And lastly, you can get through all the trials with nearly any group type as long as you pay strict adhesion to the mechanics. Most people rage out dps race this, dps race that, when the only thing to blame is their refusal to aknowledge mechanics.
play however you want whatever the hell makes happy. Constructively: The game is how it is. You adapt for some things because they're a higher level of difficulty. For veteran trials you need to be a better player than when you tank veteran spindleclutch.
Substitute warhorn for Magma armor and you have my complaints in a nutshell.
I'm not asking for the game to be entirely redesigned for an oddball. I'm asking for options.
My opinion has allways been "Either drop all rolls like guildwars 2 or adopt a strict class system like WoW because this games current design seems aimless."
Excuses for my build? My build does what the hell it's designed to do. I can tank dungeons, solo worldbosses, and do the content I normally do. But I'm not going to do trials because it requires more strict adherence to a meta than I'm willing to provide. And that's a problem that this game has had, since the start of trials. The "Meta", goes against how this game was advertised. So *** or get off the pot. Create rigid classes so the Meta has weight and probably creates a better experience, Or go the way of Guildwars and throw roles out the window.
so you think rigid classes won't have a meta? they will enforce that you follow the meta. All you need to tank trials is heavy armour amd a shield, either learn to sustain by block canceling or ask for shards. You're complaining about a nonexistent prison you put yourself in.
idc if you hate trials, but your outlooj is fundamentally flawed, from what I can assume to be a lack of both experience amd practice. Sounds like you ''tried a trial' once with scrub group and formed a lot of wrong assumptions you used to fuel your post.
g'day.
rigid how? like make templars only magica healers, and dks only stamina tanks. so only dd would be sorc magic and nb magic? I'm not sure what angle you're trying to play here. Either way I'm glad nobody takes this thread seriouslt because I love my stam templar/stam dk.0 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You don't have to if you don't want to . In trials , tank should be using trial gear like Alkosh , Ebon , Dragon , Werewolf etc. to buff the team . These are not required in pledges . So , if you don't want to tank trials , you don't have to get the gear . Trials are all about supporting each other . If your build is not for that , you shouldn't be tanking trials anyways . Sad fact but true . I was running a very tanky build that I liked very much until I was introduced to trials . Believe me , everyone wants to run whatever build they like to play with as tank but if the build doesn't work well with group play , it just becomes worthless . I got in a trial group with my previous build and to be honest , I felt totally useless . If I can tank with my support build , I shouldn't have to be in really tanky gear . That is just not good for your group DPS . You should do different things for different stuff . Continue to play with your healtank and prepare a different setup for trials . Hell , I change my damn CPs all the time for different trials . Even for different bosses . If you are not ready to adapt to different stuff , you shouldn't get into trials . They will make you spend lots of money and create different setups for what your group wants . I bought a damn banker only because my bag is getting full all the time because I have different setups ready in my bag . I totally understand that you want to run with your own build . For example , I really really hate running Ebon but I didn't even blink while buying those expensive jewelry pieces because my group wanted me to have it . Hope I could made a point . Cheers .2 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not tried trials (due to not enough people in my guidl interested in them, most pvp) but saptank is super strong.
I can tank every dungeon in the game with no healer. No heals outside of my own skills and no shards or repentance. Often run imperial City prison like it. I've even had to solo valkyn skoria (pre nerf) from 40% health with no platforms and got the job done. Not sure another class could do that.
I can honestly never drop block. Constantly getting aggro, healing a fair beat and pulling a lot of dps for a tank all with block up 100% if I want to.
Tru trials ;')
Surely all a nb is lacking in trials is chains? Ult gain is super potent on a nb so Tava's on it would be even more uptime on warhorn. It'd dodge chance even adds minor resistances and it magica based. I've tank on both and find nb resource management head and shoulders above Dk.
Sorry, but nothing tops the battle roar passive of the DK, not even the active regen of a nightblade, especially when combined with helping hands and horn. As a nightblade you rely completely on that regen, while a dk can just insta regain a massive resource pool in tricky situations about every 40 seconds, and in trials like AAHM and VMOL, there are a lot of those. Also the self healing is sufficient for dungeons, but far from sufficient for vet trials. You can't regen what you lose when 6 axes are hitting you.
Nightblade resource management might be good for short fight, but in 10min+ fights, nothing surpasses battle roar.
And I've tanked on all classes, except sorcerer.
Beware though, I'm not saying it can't be done.Edited by Woeler on August 11, 2016 8:01AM1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭So... you don't like blocking.
As a tank.
And you want ZOS to remove the blocking requirements from trial bosses.
Great, so people will then do trials without tanks.
Great mindset, that one.
I suggest you simply switch to a NB damage dealer and let us true tanks do their job.4 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not tried trials (due to not enough people in my guidl interested in them, most pvp) but saptank is super strong.
I can tank every dungeon in the game with no healer. No heals outside of my own skills and no shards or repentance. Often run imperial City prison like it. I've even had to solo valkyn skoria (pre nerf) from 40% health with no platforms and got the job done. Not sure another class could do that.
I can honestly never drop block. Constantly getting aggro, healing a fair beat and pulling a lot of dps for a tank all with block up 100% if I want to.
Tru trials ;')
Surely all a nb is lacking in trials is chains? Ult gain is super potent on a nb so Tava's on it would be even more uptime on warhorn. It'd dodge chance even adds minor resistances and it magica based. I've tank on both and find nb resource management head and shoulders above Dk.
Sorry, but nothing tops the battle roar passive of the DK, not even the active regen of a nightblade, especially when combined with helping hands and horn. As a nightblade you rely completely on that regen, while a dk can just insta regain a massive resource pool in tricky situations about every 40 seconds, and in trials like AAHM and VMOL, there are a lot of those. Also the self healing is sufficient for dungeons, but far from sufficient for vet trials. You can't regen what you lose when 6 axes are hitting you.
Nightblade resource management might be good for short fight, but in 10min+ fights, nothing surpasses battle roar.
And I've tanked on all classes, except sorcerer.
Beware though, I'm not saying it can't be done.
Yeh, battle roar is amazing no doubt.
I just personally found in dungeons I can sustain a lot better on my sap tank. Maybe it's because I like using warhorn at the right time rather than for sustain. Often people didn't have ults ready so I'd hold on until everyone else was ready.0 -
Leon119✭✭✭✭The reason every tank is a DK isnt magma armor. Most of the time its not needed anw. Its the chain pull1 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Trials yield best gear... Ophidian for example.
2. Trials are fun. There's lots of cool builds. I can name a few cos I have 2 tank toons;
You can be an ultimate offensive buff Tank with 5 tavas + 3 potentates and blood spawn or even throw on dragon guard for a perma war horn tank.
You can wear 5 imperium/ 5 ebon comboed with lord warden etc for a sick group defensive buff tank.
There are lots of builds out there that work...
3. I don't see why you want a self healing tank in 12 man content in which your group has dedicated spc heal slaves lol. In 4 man content, a self healing Templar or nb or even dk tanks is easily possible.
In short, I don't get what your complaining about...Edited by Vangy on August 11, 2016 9:39AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz2 -
Mortehl✭✭✭I understand that you want to do things your way. When you're faced with situations you can't overcome or are not invited to groups for lack of group utility, its on you and not the developer.
You've offered some cogent points but please really give my previous paragraph serious thought. Healers and tanks in this game don't just tank and heal.0 -
tryia3b14a_ESO✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »NoMoreChillies wrote: »DPS have to fit Meta for trials
Healers have to fit Meta for trials
why shouldnt tanks?
In other MMO's, DPS have set classes with progressive ability unlocks.
In other MMO's, healers have set classes with progressive ability unlocks.
If this game wants me to hold rigidly to a roll it needs to either sort those roles out, sort those classes out, or abandon roles all together.
This has been one of my biggest problems with this game. "Play any way you like. But only if it fits into this very specific holy trinity meta." The games I played right before this one were Guild Wars 2 (no class roles, play whatever you want in dungeons) and The Secret World (holy trinity system, but no classes and a huge variety of skills to choose from including several different weapon skill lines that can tank or heal, allowing way more build combinations).
I feel like I really screwed myself over on my first level 50 character. I made a medium armor dual wielding Nightblade. I had no idea what I was doing so I didn't bother to level pvp, two-handed or bow. Now I struggle with no self healing as I try to raise my grossly underleveled skill lines that I had no idea would be so important.
After reading this thread and thinking about it. I think the problem is that there is such a limited amount of skills to choose from in this game compared to other "make yourself a build" games that there is always quite clearly a best in slot ability for each role and class, making it so if you pick anything else, you're just being foolish.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you didn't need to block people just wouldn't bring a tank. Tons of valuable gear drops from the newly updated trials, but yeh trials gear was garbage for a long time. I have made probably 1-3 million gold off of trials gear since SO was updated. A Templar tank can handle most of the content in the game, but it is true that DKs are better for tanking.Edited by timidobserver on August 11, 2016 1:47PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So... you don't like blocking.
As a tank.
And you want ZOS to remove the blocking requirements from trial bosses.
Great, so people will then do trials without tanks.
Great mindset, that one.
I suggest you simply switch to a NB damage dealer and let us true tanks do their job.
This.
Its like saying "I wanna play a healer, but you know, I hate them healing spells and wanna play a stamina build".
And yeah, pretty much any odd build works in dungeons, almost all of those do not require tanks at all. From my perspective as a tank, its a very good thing that revamped trials and vMoL actually require tanking and require tanks to be, well, tanky. Especially after tanking role being neglected for so long...
And dk tank's role in trials is far from just standing there, popping magma and being a wall. Positioning enemies and buffing allies is a very important part. In vMoL, for example, you can easily screw up your group if your positioning is bad - or help them greatly if its good.
And after all, if anyone would be able to tank without tanking setup, people would just bring another dd instead and we tanks would be useless once again...Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I'll put it this way
I like tanking,
I dont like trails, cuz its mostly for the elitist, I dont like that, I play to relax, so no thanks, but I dont mindHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)0 -
MrAppleman✭✭✭I've completed Veteran Maw of Lorkaj with a Nightblade tank. And another time with a Templar tank.
Also dk tanks don't even run magma armor. Usually tank and heals run agro warhorn.
Trials just require the best set ups and you may have fun with a certain build but it may not be best for endgame trials.1 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually OP, BiS for tanks is a mix between crafted and dropped. BiS sets for tanks come from pvp coffers and trials drops. It's not any different for tanks as it is a dps. Healers actually have the hardest time with BiS because the statistically best sets are all dropped, not crafted. And dps also have to craft a set, then earn a dropped set, in order to make an optimal setup.
I'm not trying to criticize your playstyle, but I think that what is desired from a tank in a trials setting is not anything close to what you expect or are used to from tanks in other MMOs. The holy trinity in ESO only barely resembles that of a traditional trinity. We do technically have tank, healer, and dps, however the role of the tank and healer alike is simply support. Both roles are expected to hold aggro/survive/heal only as much is necessary, else making dps even more powerful is their real job.
The more challenging trials do have a heavy focus on mechanics, and that's what keeps most of us interested that are not dps. There is also a respectable level of satisfaction in being a crucial component of your overall group damage, I think.2 -
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »NoMoreChillies wrote: »what does other MMO's have to do with this?
in ESO all roles have to fit meta for vet trials.
to complete the hardest content in the game, you need the hardest build.
Get hard
Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.0 -
Leon119✭✭✭✭So i went as a first time since it got updated into vAA as a dk tank. Got to say i was mistaken. Chains are only useful in very specific situations (2nd boss MoL and dungeons mostly). Battle roar is the real gem. Tanking 4-5 axes at a time with no need for blazing spears just via battle roar and occational potion is awsome
Certainly doable with other classes but dk is the easiest and most fun for me1
