NOT an auction house. A mini public trader.

MornaBaine · August 2016

There really DOES need to be a way to sell your items without being forced to give up precious guild slots to trade guilds. I enormously resent this. Yes, I'm in trade guilds and I hate it. I want to use those guild slots for other types of guilds. But then I'd never be able to sell anything. That they made this giant headache of a system just because they were determined to be "different" from other MMOs has been a huge disservice to the player base.

Lysette · August 2016

You have to see how the system is made - like writs for example - not even counting the materials - but to do the gear writs for example it requires 17, 21 or 23 style materials to do all 3 - for 15 a piece - lets say 21 - that is 315 gold which he has to pay to do the writs - a newbie gets 223 gold for a writ - 3 of them will bring 669 gold - but he needs 3x30 materials for that - now lets see what one piece of material can cost maximal for him to break even - not even win - less then 4 gold per piece of mat - and it is far more expensive in a guild shop - and that is why he is screwed if he does writs, it will not earn him a lot at all. He will give up if he cannot sell stuff - merchants pay him 800 per stack - for 200 pieces. you see 4 is the number here - and it is just to break even, not even win.

That system is so not generous from ZOS, that a player, who is not able to sell stuff is screwed and will give up.

Lysette · August 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

There really DOES need to be a way to sell your items without being forced to give up precious guild slots to trade guilds. I enormously resent this. Yes, I'm in trade guilds and I hate it. I want to use those guild slots for other types of guilds. But then I'd never be able to sell anything. That they made this giant headache of a system just because they were determined to be "different" from other MMOs has been a huge disservice to the player base.

something like that works - when it is done by CCP and is called EVE online - it has local markets - but they have economists in their staff to design and control mechanism which actually work. But everyone can sell everywhere to the local conditions.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Yes, that is a problem I have seen in my guild, which I inherited - all just want to sell, no one wants to buy - this way it will never work without a guild trader. The only person who bought something was me. The problem is less the system, the problem is people and their greedy nature.

that's the thing.... the only way you make sales is if you offer something that people want to buy.

the idea that an ah or some variation is going to be a panacea for all those people who say they can't sell stuff is just plain nonsense.

ooh look i got this blue weapon drop i'll sell that... no you won't. the reason you won't is that several hundred thousand other people also got the same drop.

it has nothing to do with greed or any other human frailty.... it is the simple fact that to make a sale you have to offer something that someone wants to buy.

but a guild without a guild trader where all members just want to sell stuff, cannot work - and that is the case with many - how many who are in a guild are in that guild to buy?- they join with the intention to sell - because they could buy before without to be in the guild - so their reasoning is "I join this guild to sell stuff".

And this is the problem with this system - it collects members who want to sell, but not to buy - because if they would want to mainly buy, they would not need to be in a guild.

yes.... but it has to be something that there is a market for.....that people want to buy.

i have been in random guilds that have no trader but do have store. i always look to see what is on offer..... most of the time it is just junk that should either have been deconstructed or sold to npc.

i have even seen people try to sell the recipe that you are given free when you start the provisioning writs.

Yes, this are exactly the people I am talking about - they have no clue about markets nor do they want to have one, they just want some coins for the stuff which is more than a merchant offers them, which is like nothing at all - a few coins.

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

im sorry but werent we all new players ? it is so abundantly easy to make gold in this game, and if half of you would just go do it instead of whining here about an auction house, you would have no need or want of an auction house. stop being lazy, and put in the work. the people in this game that have a lot of gold -- they put in the time for it. it didnt fall out of the sky or grow on a tree.

Tandor · August 2016

Milvan wrote: »

I can't understand all the hate towards the guild vendors and why you guys want to change it so much.

I think is great the way it is now. Trade guilds are great for socializing, they have raffles, auctions and all sort of stuff to make money to get they guild vendors and the taxes aren't even that high.

It's simply that the present system is so restrictive. Sure it makes tons of gold for those few who belong to most of the successful trading guilds, but they are a very small percentage of the overall playerbase and the system is additionally geared mainly to higher level hardcore players. Lower level and casual players with only small amounts of stuff to sell are effectively excluded. As for buyers, it's just a rubbish system that requires you to travel everywhere (which again precludes lower level players until One Tamriel) with a really cumbersome search feature. Trading is such a core part of any MMO that it shouldn't be locked behind guild membership or require the use of addons (which are PC only, of course) to make it remotely useable.

The OP's suggestion is close to one I've been arguing for for ages, and I'd have some quests attached to the public traders that would introduce the whole trading concept and lead those who wanted to extend their trading to guild vendors.

Lysette · August 2016

I understand you very well MornaBaine, you want roleplay guilds and social guilds, not guilds where people are just to sell their stuff. When i came to ESO I thought maybe I will do a guild, even I do not have much time. Then someone invited me to a guild, we had good relation to each other on a human level and then he got a new demanding job and had to give up playing and left the guild to me.

First experience with this guild - there is no way to efficiently communicate with guild members at all. All the tools to run a guild are simply not there. Furthermore people found it strange, that I want to talk to them and create a community - why, because they just joined because they wanted to sell - all of them, and no one wanted to buy - all newbies though. Guess what, most of them are gone now - given up - this was a dead guild from the very start and the system really killed my mood to even try now. I ran a couple of successful corporations in EVE as CEO, I know how to do it - but I need the tools to be able to do it. And people with another mind set - but how to find them?- all the tools required to recruit and such are simply not there.

This is the most screwed up guild system I have seen so far - and all the tools to manage and run it are missing.

Lysette · August 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Yes, that is a problem I have seen in my guild, which I inherited - all just want to sell, no one wants to buy - this way it will never work without a guild trader. The only person who bought something was me. The problem is less the system, the problem is people and their greedy nature.

that's the thing.... the only way you make sales is if you offer something that people want to buy.

the idea that an ah or some variation is going to be a panacea for all those people who say they can't sell stuff is just plain nonsense.

ooh look i got this blue weapon drop i'll sell that... no you won't. the reason you won't is that several hundred thousand other people also got the same drop.

it has nothing to do with greed or any other human frailty.... it is the simple fact that to make a sale you have to offer something that someone wants to buy.

but a guild without a guild trader where all members just want to sell stuff, cannot work - and that is the case with many - how many who are in a guild are in that guild to buy?- they join with the intention to sell - because they could buy before without to be in the guild - so their reasoning is "I join this guild to sell stuff".

And this is the problem with this system - it collects members who want to sell, but not to buy - because if they would want to mainly buy, they would not need to be in a guild.

yes.... but it has to be something that there is a market for.....that people want to buy.

i have been in random guilds that have no trader but do have store. i always look to see what is on offer..... most of the time it is just junk that should either have been deconstructed or sold to npc.

i have even seen people try to sell the recipe that you are given free when you start the provisioning writs.

Yes, this are exactly the people I am talking about - they have no clue about markets nor do they want to have one, they just want some coins for the stuff which is more than a merchant offers them, which is like nothing at all - a few coins.

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

im sorry but werent we all new players ? it is so abundantly easy to make gold in this game, and if half of you would just go do it instead of whining here about an auction house, you would have no need or want of an auction house. stop being lazy, and put in the work. the people in this game that have a lot of gold -- they put in the time for it. it didnt fall out of the sky or grow on a tree.

I have no problem with it, but obviously a lot have - I am just pointing this out and what the reasoning is behind wanting an independent trader. Does not even have to be a trader, just an NPC who buys stuff at a decent price - even if just half the market value - but not 0-19 gold.

Time is what most players do not have, because they have a real life, a career, a spouse, a family, other interests - that time what they have to play, they do not want to use for mindless grind - maybe you cannot understand this.

Jeremy · August 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a publicly accessible trader?

Able to have about 5 listings at a time, so it doesn't compare to the 30 you have with your guild.

But open to everyone in the alliance, so while each individual has few listings the trader can have HUNDREDS of people selling things.

People who sell fewer things, and cannot get into one of the Big Money trader guilds, can still have a venue without walking around spamming the chat.

People who are gouging through those trade guilds will have to wake the f up and mend their ways, because there will be viable competition through the Public Trader

It would be better than what we have now. Your proposed 5 listing limit would also ensure there is still some value to bidding on guild traders since they would be able to sell in bulk. But I would not expect this idea to get much support among those who favor the current system. They are now too addicted to their dominance over the market because I have noticed it is usually the same guilds every week who control the traders.

It really is a special kind of B.S. that players who do not belong to high-end trading guilds have such a hard time accomplishing something so menial in an MMO as selling their wares to other players. Most guilds simply are too small to offer a large enough demand to effectively sell goods. And I would rather drill holes in my head than spend hours spamming chat - so that's not even a considered option.

Frankly I'll never understand ZOS's stubborn refusal to simply join the 21st century and offer us a centralized and effective economy. Their counter argument - that it would create rampant inflation/deflation - is already disproven by countless successful games out there. I don't even bother trying to sell most of my items anymore. It just isn't worth the hassle.

But at least after they added the Justice System you have an alternative way to make gold, which helped a lot (especially considering this game's steep repair prices). This is one game where I didn't even have to think twice before turning to a life of crime.

Lysette · August 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a publicly accessible trader?

Able to have about 5 listings at a time, so it doesn't compare to the 30 you have with your guild.

But open to everyone in the alliance, so while each individual has few listings the trader can have HUNDREDS of people selling things.

People who sell fewer things, and cannot get into one of the Big Money trader guilds, can still have a venue without walking around spamming the chat.

People who are gouging through those trade guilds will have to wake the f up and mend their ways, because there will be viable competition through the Public Trader

It would be better than what we have now. Your proposed 5 listing limit would also ensure there is still some value to bidding on guild traders since they would be able to sell in bulk. But I would not expect this idea to get much support among those who favor the current system. They are now too addicted to their dominance over the market because I have noticed it is usually the same guilds every week who control the traders.

It really is a special kind of B.S. that players who do not belong to high-end trading guilds have such a hard time accomplishing something so menial in an MMO as selling their wares to other players. Most guilds simply are too small to offer a large enough demand to effectively sell goods. And I would rather drill holes in my head than spend hours spamming chat - so that's not even a considered option.

Frankly I'll never understand ZOS's stubborn refusal to simply join the 21st century and offer us a centralized and effective economy. Their counter argument - that it would create rampant inflation - is already disproven by countless successful games out there. I don't even bother trying to sell most of my items anymore. It just isn't worth the hassle. At least after they added the Justice System you have an alternative way to make gold, which helped a lot (especially considering this game's steep repair prices). This is one game where I didn't even have to think twice before turning to a life of crime.

Exactly - you said it even better than me.

failkiwib16_ESO · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

I used to make 10-20k per map from questing alone, and once I reached Cadwells Silver, I had 100k in my bag - I used to only vendor items to merchants back then.

I believe if casuals wish to upgrade their gear to purple or gold, it is very easily affordable just by questing - and all solo content in the game is achieveable with looted gear, with exception of veteran Maelstrom Arena - as the only exception, but it's also a trial and gives leaderboard rewards.

Btw. I recruited a few lvl 7-10 players into the trading guild I'm officer in, and the lowbies earn easily 20k a week selling their loot. Not all trading guilds require donations or high sales. It's better for a trading guild to have an army of level 10 players, that sell their crafting related materials slowly and have a steady income - than powerseller that only farms BiS gear that drops in prices and nobody buys after 2-3 weeks - because the guild will attract more costumers if they have a large variety of crafting related materials for sale.

Low level recipes, low level set gear, low level solvents for alchemy, provisioning materials, lvl 1-49 materials for crafting, writ items, runes, flowers, raw materials, fish bait and upgrade materials have been the most steady income for trading guilds. Only the upgrade materials are hard to get as a low level, the rest are easy and don't require hardcore farming at all.

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Yes, that is a problem I have seen in my guild, which I inherited - all just want to sell, no one wants to buy - this way it will never work without a guild trader. The only person who bought something was me. The problem is less the system, the problem is people and their greedy nature.

that's the thing.... the only way you make sales is if you offer something that people want to buy.

the idea that an ah or some variation is going to be a panacea for all those people who say they can't sell stuff is just plain nonsense.

ooh look i got this blue weapon drop i'll sell that... no you won't. the reason you won't is that several hundred thousand other people also got the same drop.

it has nothing to do with greed or any other human frailty.... it is the simple fact that to make a sale you have to offer something that someone wants to buy.

but a guild without a guild trader where all members just want to sell stuff, cannot work - and that is the case with many - how many who are in a guild are in that guild to buy?- they join with the intention to sell - because they could buy before without to be in the guild - so their reasoning is "I join this guild to sell stuff".

And this is the problem with this system - it collects members who want to sell, but not to buy - because if they would want to mainly buy, they would not need to be in a guild.

yes.... but it has to be something that there is a market for.....that people want to buy.

i have been in random guilds that have no trader but do have store. i always look to see what is on offer..... most of the time it is just junk that should either have been deconstructed or sold to npc.

i have even seen people try to sell the recipe that you are given free when you start the provisioning writs.

Yes, this are exactly the people I am talking about - they have no clue about markets nor do they want to have one, they just want some coins for the stuff which is more than a merchant offers them, which is like nothing at all - a few coins.

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

im sorry but werent we all new players ? it is so abundantly easy to make gold in this game, and if half of you would just go do it instead of whining here about an auction house, you would have no need or want of an auction house. stop being lazy, and put in the work. the people in this game that have a lot of gold -- they put in the time for it. it didnt fall out of the sky or grow on a tree.

I have no problem with it, but obviously a lot have - I am just pointing this out and what the reasoning is behind wanting an independent trader. Does not even have to be a trader, just an NPC who buys stuff at a decent price - even if just half the market value - but not 0-19 gold.

Time is what most players do not have, because they have a real life, a career, a spouse, a family, other interests - that time what they have to play, they do not want to use for mindless grind - maybe you cannot understand this.

grinding is boring, and time consuming, but if you want stuff or gold, you have to do it. i work a full time job, and play eso every night --- my bank is full, my inventory on my characters is almost full, and at all times i have four trading guilds full of stuff for sale--- it isnt hard. i dont grind -- i have barely done any dungeons or farming --- i buy stuff and flip it for a profit.

there are so many easy ways to make money in this game. i have a second character -- my provisioning on that character is level 2. i do the provisioning writ on that character every day -- 3 to 4 times per week i get a blue level 2/2 recipe out of it -- blue level 2/2 recipes go for very good money in this game ( i sold one for 100k ) ---- this is just one easy way of making money in this game, that even casuals can do.

on a side note --- i do agree that the npc vendors should pay more than they do for stuff now

Lysette · August 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

I used to make 10-20k per map from questing alone, and once I reached Cadwells Silver, I had 100k in my bag - I used to only vendor items to merchants back then.

I believe if casuals wish to upgrade their gear to purple or gold, it is very easily affordable just by questing - and all solo content in the game is achieveable with looted gear, with exception of veteran Maelstrom Arena - as the only exception, but it's also a trial and gives leaderboard rewards.

Btw. I recruited a few lvl 7-10 players into the trading guild I'm officer in, and the lowbies earn easily 20k a week selling their loot. Not all trading guilds require donations or high sales. It's better for a trading guild to have an army of level 10 players, that sell their crafting related materials slowly and have a steady income - than powerseller that only farms BiS gear that drops in prices and nobody buys after 2-3 weeks - because the guild will attract more costumers if they have a large variety of crafting related materials for sale.

Low level recipes, low level set gear, low level solvents for alchemy, provisioning materials, lvl 1-49 materials for crafting, writ items, runes, flowers, raw materials, fish bait and upgrade materials have been the most steady income for trading guilds. Only the upgrade materials are hard to get as a low level, the rest are easy and don't require hardcore farming at all.

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Through trader - and what about casuals who play like 2-3 times per week for an hour or two - how are they in your guild?- Or do you even have casuals which are rarely even there and still want to sell their stuff, that bit what they got.

BTW a merchant pays a wooping 1 gold for columbine. So generous is ZOS.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

even before i was in any guild i was able to sell stuff in area chat. it really isnt hard.

grom1024 · August 2016

I suggest leaving current trade system for those who like waste time on trading and create AH with anti-botting measures for all others. This would be best of two worlds. However, current system proponents insists on making trade so time wasting for rest.

nk474 · August 2016

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Prices are similiar on NA/PC. Just sell mats you find while questing. Decon stuff to level crafting. Kuta and columbine will sell quickly. Prices are higher on Xbox and PS4 apparently. Motifs from new dlc contents been running around 40k or more easily farmable. Probably want to stay out of the high rent guilds at first but alot of guild have a minimal activity policy.

Lysette · August 2016

The start in this game is so screwed up - once one is level 10 and more it is all fine - but before there is not much to earn and so a lot might not even get that far and just say "screw it, I'll play a game which is fun and where I can earn money". ZOS is choking their own game's potential by being so unflexible and so not generous with their merchant prices.

But that is how they are, it shows pretty much everywhere in their concepts - greed and rarely generous, even when it would cost them nothing. This cost them in the end a lot, players which they could have and make happy so that they would stay in the game. Those could be more, my guild roster is an example - all people who gave up early.

Jeremy · August 2016

nk474 wrote: »

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Prices are similiar on NA/PC. Just sell mats you find while questing. Decon stuff to level crafting. Kuta and columbine will sell quickly. Prices are higher on Xbox and PS4 apparently. Motifs from new dlc contents been running around 40k or more easily farmable. Probably want to stay out of the high rent guilds at first but alot of guild have a minimal activity policy.

The problem with your post is that average players - especially casual ones - will not be able to sell on these guild traders you mention because they will not belong to the Trading Guilds who operate them. So your argument seems to stem from a false assumption.

I'm sure the system works just fine for players who are lucky enough to have access to these popular guild traders where demand is so accessible. But for the rest of us - the system leaves a lot to be desired. So unless you turn to a life of crime (which usually is the last resort for people who exist in a terrible economy owned by a privileged few) it's going to be struggle to succeed in this game's economy.

Lysette · August 2016

nk474 wrote: »

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Prices are similiar on NA/PC. Just sell mats you find while questing. Decon stuff to level crafting. Kuta and columbine will sell quickly. Prices are higher on Xbox and PS4 apparently. Motifs from new dlc contents been running around 40k or more easily farmable. Probably want to stay out of the high rent guilds at first but alot of guild have a minimal activity policy.

Sell to whom - if they do not have a guild with a trader they are screwed.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

I used to make 10-20k per map from questing alone, and once I reached Cadwells Silver, I had 100k in my bag - I used to only vendor items to merchants back then.

I believe if casuals wish to upgrade their gear to purple or gold, it is very easily affordable just by questing - and all solo content in the game is achieveable with looted gear, with exception of veteran Maelstrom Arena - as the only exception, but it's also a trial and gives leaderboard rewards.

Btw. I recruited a few lvl 7-10 players into the trading guild I'm officer in, and the lowbies earn easily 20k a week selling their loot. Not all trading guilds require donations or high sales. It's better for a trading guild to have an army of level 10 players, that sell their crafting related materials slowly and have a steady income - than powerseller that only farms BiS gear that drops in prices and nobody buys after 2-3 weeks - because the guild will attract more costumers if they have a large variety of crafting related materials for sale.

Low level recipes, low level set gear, low level solvents for alchemy, provisioning materials, lvl 1-49 materials for crafting, writ items, runes, flowers, raw materials, fish bait and upgrade materials have been the most steady income for trading guilds. Only the upgrade materials are hard to get as a low level, the rest are easy and don't require hardcore farming at all.

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Through trader - and what about casuals who play like 2-3 times per week for an hour or two - how are they in your guild?- Or do you even have casuals which are rarely even there and still want to sell their stuff, that bit what they got.

BTW a merchant pays a wooping 1 gold for columbine. So generous is ZOS.

theyre casuals -- who cares ? if they cared, they wouldnt be casuals. why change the entire WORKING FINE system to pacify people that barely play the game ?

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

oh well...

given that there are already four ways for a player to buy/sell stuff why should zos divert resources to provide a fifth?

Lysette · August 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

I used to make 10-20k per map from questing alone, and once I reached Cadwells Silver, I had 100k in my bag - I used to only vendor items to merchants back then.

I believe if casuals wish to upgrade their gear to purple or gold, it is very easily affordable just by questing - and all solo content in the game is achieveable with looted gear, with exception of veteran Maelstrom Arena - as the only exception, but it's also a trial and gives leaderboard rewards.

Btw. I recruited a few lvl 7-10 players into the trading guild I'm officer in, and the lowbies earn easily 20k a week selling their loot. Not all trading guilds require donations or high sales. It's better for a trading guild to have an army of level 10 players, that sell their crafting related materials slowly and have a steady income - than powerseller that only farms BiS gear that drops in prices and nobody buys after 2-3 weeks - because the guild will attract more costumers if they have a large variety of crafting related materials for sale.

Low level recipes, low level set gear, low level solvents for alchemy, provisioning materials, lvl 1-49 materials for crafting, writ items, runes, flowers, raw materials, fish bait and upgrade materials have been the most steady income for trading guilds. Only the upgrade materials are hard to get as a low level, the rest are easy and don't require hardcore farming at all.

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Through trader - and what about casuals who play like 2-3 times per week for an hour or two - how are they in your guild?- Or do you even have casuals which are rarely even there and still want to sell their stuff, that bit what they got.

BTW a merchant pays a wooping 1 gold for columbine. So generous is ZOS.

theyre casuals -- who cares ? if they cared, they wouldnt be casuals. why change the entire WORKING FINE system to pacify people that barely play the game ?

Now this is a really disgusting answer - they are casuals because they have a real life, with responsibilities and other interests. They are not gamers, they are just playing a game when they have time to play - gaming is not their life.

And why care?- because these people have the money to subscribe and buy all the vanity stuff to enjoy, when they have time to play. They are the least drain on the servers and pay for a long time, because if they have time to play, they want it all - and so they subscribe. They are those paying for the show in the end.

Jeremy · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Ok now im confused. So your complaint is merchants dont pay enough for items? Or that people wont buy things that arent worth anything?

It is both - there are a lot who are not in a trading guild because they would never have enough stuff to sell to fulfill the requirements - and their other option is merchants - which give them like 0-19 coins for their stuff - new players, I was talking about new ones - older players have their money, but new ones are screwed, if they do not have a trader mind.

Makes me wonder how many just give up on this game, because they cannot earn money - just because ZOS was again not generous enough to let merchants give them some decent price for their stuff - and not just 0-19 - that 0 is so typically ZOS.

I used to make 10-20k per map from questing alone, and once I reached Cadwells Silver, I had 100k in my bag - I used to only vendor items to merchants back then.

I believe if casuals wish to upgrade their gear to purple or gold, it is very easily affordable just by questing - and all solo content in the game is achieveable with looted gear, with exception of veteran Maelstrom Arena - as the only exception, but it's also a trial and gives leaderboard rewards.

Btw. I recruited a few lvl 7-10 players into the trading guild I'm officer in, and the lowbies earn easily 20k a week selling their loot. Not all trading guilds require donations or high sales. It's better for a trading guild to have an army of level 10 players, that sell their crafting related materials slowly and have a steady income - than powerseller that only farms BiS gear that drops in prices and nobody buys after 2-3 weeks - because the guild will attract more costumers if they have a large variety of crafting related materials for sale.

Low level recipes, low level set gear, low level solvents for alchemy, provisioning materials, lvl 1-49 materials for crafting, writ items, runes, flowers, raw materials, fish bait and upgrade materials have been the most steady income for trading guilds. Only the upgrade materials are hard to get as a low level, the rest are easy and don't require hardcore farming at all.

I play on PC/EU and here is how easy money is earned as a non-veteran who quest and sometimes pick up some loot:
10 ores can be sold for 450g-500g through traders.
10 columbine can be sold for 3500g-5000g through traders.
10 Filthered Water can be sold for 450g through traders.
Blue low level recipes are sold for 300g-4000g through traders.

Through trader - and what about casuals who play like 2-3 times per week for an hour or two - how are they in your guild?- Or do you even have casuals which are rarely even there and still want to sell their stuff, that bit what they got.

BTW a merchant pays a wooping 1 gold for columbine. So generous is ZOS.

theyre casuals -- who cares ? if they cared, they wouldnt be casuals. why change the entire WORKING FINE system to pacify people that barely play the game ?

Now this is a really disgusting answer - they are casuals because they have a real life, with responsibilities and other interests. They are not gamers, they are just playing a game when they have time to play - gaming is not their life.

Agreed. Not all us have the luxury of being able to commit time to being active in a high-end trading guild 24/7 on a video game.

To just write off all these players as insignificant and not worth the time to consider is pretty dismissive. Nor it is a very good way to run a business.

idk · August 2016

Just find a decent trading guild. We all have 5 slots and this is part of the reason for that.

Lysette · August 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Just find a decent trading guild. We all have 5 slots and this is part of the reason for that.

That is the problem, because no one wants them for long, because they are not making a lot of volume in sales due to their time restrictions as casuals. There are too few things, they want to sell and guilds will not deem that worth of spending a slot on them for long, if they can have more active people - and that is exactly the problem here.

Conquistador · August 2016

Raise your hand if you've spent 5 hours searching all of the traders in the game, hoping there might be another way.

Lysette · August 2016

They might not even have a schedule when they can play - that might be 5 times in one week - and then 2 in the next, and maybe not at all for the next 10 days, and then a couple of days in a row - like 1-2 hours each. That is how this goes, real life has priority, because that is where their life is and gaming is something they do, when they are in the mood and have time.

If someone can play 40hrs/month without to get aggro from his/her spouse that might already by a lot. I read in a survey that in the industry someone who plays 5 times a week with 1.9 hours per session is already considered "hardcore". So you can imagine how less the average casual player has.

Lol, per week, I meant per month - corrected that.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2016

Conquistador wrote: »

Raise your hand if you've spent 5 hours searching all of the traders in the game, hoping there might be another way.

Ive never needed something bad enough i would waste that much time porting around.

Lysette · August 2016

Conquistador wrote: »

Raise your hand if you've spent 5 hours searching all of the traders in the game, hoping there might be another way.

I check 10 traders which are near to where I do writs or deliver the goods to - in all 3 factions that is - in total. Basically because I do writs on 12 characters and need a bunch of material stacks every day (on which i can play, I doubt that there is enough offered at a good price to actually do stuff every day) and look for a good price, so that I have enough win with the writs.

I basically live from that, I do not have a trader currently where I could sell stuff - to me an independent one would be a great help - but I can as well live without it, I am self-sufficient and invest nearly all what I earn in asset - for the pure chance that I might have a trader some day or another way to sell my stuff. If I sell it at all, i can as well play self-sufficient, even it will not bind me to this game like this - EVE is still my favorite and this will most likely never change, there is no better game.

xilfxlegion · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Just find a decent trading guild. We all have 5 slots and this is part of the reason for that.

That is the problem, because no one wants them for long, because they are not making a lot of volume in sales due to their time restrictions as casuals. There are too few things, they want to sell and guilds will not deem that worth of spending a slot on them for long, if they can have more active people - and that is exactly the problem here.

ok -- so your logic is, the casuals dont have time to play. so why bother diverting resources to the people who dont have time to use said resources ?

its the same as any business --- if i have steady customers that spend a lot of money, i am going to favor them over the people that buy one thing per year. or are you suggesting that if they install an auction house the casuals will switch to hard core players ?

every day there are 15 more threads about this auction house silliness --- all started by the same small group of people. zos said no. no means no.

not to mention ---- half of this will be alleviated once the chat feature comes. then " casuals " can just spam the chat channels with their blue level 17 junk.

Lysette · August 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Just find a decent trading guild. We all have 5 slots and this is part of the reason for that.

That is the problem, because no one wants them for long, because they are not making a lot of volume in sales due to their time restrictions as casuals. There are too few things, they want to sell and guilds will not deem that worth of spending a slot on them for long, if they can have more active people - and that is exactly the problem here.

ok -- so your logic is, the casuals dont have time to play. so why bother diverting resources to the people who dont have time to use said resources ?

its the same as any business --- if i have steady customers that spend a lot of money, i am going to favor them over the people that buy one thing per year. or are you suggesting that if they install an auction house the casuals will switch to hard core players ?

every day there are 15 more threads about this auction house silliness --- all started by the same small group of people. zos said no. no means no.

not to mention ---- half of this will be alleviated once the chat feature comes. then " casuals " can just spam the chat channels with their blue level 17 junk.

They do not have to play a lot, but if they play they should be able to enjoy their time. They pay for the show, they deserve a little respect for that they are doing this - ESO could not survive with just hardcore players, but it could with just casuals.

Casual are decent people with a career - if they would behave like this, they wouldn't have this career - they have manners and they would not spam others with something that insignificant as a few gold in a game. That is pestering people, a decent person does not do that.

That you think they would, tells a bit about where you are coming from.

now lets see, what you hardcore guys spend in this game - I am a casual, I spend in average 15,000 crowns per month in this game and my game time for ESO+ is pre-paid for a year. Now how much do you spend every month and for how long is your ESO+ pre-paid?

And guess what, around 40 hrs/months sum up to 480 hrs/year - it is not as if we wouldn't spend time here, which we want to enjoy with nice stuff, a lot of mounts, pets, vanity items - so we buy this and have as well enough time to enjoy it, if we do not waste it on grinding.