Slow Movement Speed Fixed?
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Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
It's called outsourcing.4 -
bunnytrix✭✭✭✭Yeah I totally believe they are still "working on a fix" for this "bug" to bring it "more in line to what it used to be." But it will not happen until some time after Dark Brotherhood launches, by which time we will hopefully have forgotten about it again.
So they now have been "working" on the "fix" since just after TG launch where at first they did their best to deny there was a problem, and since early April have been sinking any threads that mentioned it.
It's not a bug. Movement speed was nerfed on purpose, but they refuse to revert it for whatever reason.
And seriously ? Movement speed is 10% - 15% slower than it was before Thieves Guild launched and this company thinks its totally fine to just leave it like that for months and try to limit any damage with the usual "working on it " excuse.Edited by bunnytrix on May 26, 2016 2:36PM3 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
It's called outsourcing.
What do you mean outsourcing? Like hiring a ctrontracter to program? @Pomaikai0 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
It's called outsourcing.
What do you mean outsourcing? Like hiring a ctrontracter to program? @Pomaikai
Yes, like in hiring outside contract programmers. ZOS has recently started hiring local programmers again, so maybe they've learned to keep it in house now.2 -
bunnytrix✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We’re still working on this one, and do plan to make some improvements with the goal of bringing movement speed more in-line with where it used to be. Changes won’t be in until sometime after Dark Brotherhood launches, but we are working on it.
Please let us know what these improvements are that you are "planning." And can you please elaborate on "bringing movement speed more in line with where it used to be."
Will the nerf to movement speed be reverted back to what it was before Thieves Guild or not ? And when ? A simple question that only requires a simple answer and not some nebulous " we have a plan for some time in the future."1 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭Yeah I totally believe they are still "working on a fix" for this "bug" to bring it "more in line to what it used to be." But it will not happen until some time after Dark Brotherhood launches, by which time we will hopefully have forgotten about it again.
So they now have been "working" on the "fix" since just after TG launch where at first they did their best to deny there was a problem, and since early April have been sinking any threads that mentioned it.
It's not a bug. Movement speed was nerfed on purpose, but they refuse to revert it for whatever reason.
And seriously ? Movement speed is 10% - 15% slower than it was before Thieves Guild launched and this company thinks its totally fine to just leave it like that for months and try to limit any damage with the usual "working on it " excuse.
Inaccurate. Normal movement was not nerfed on purpose. They admitted it was a bug once the vid of it was posted on an earlier thread. Sprint WAS nerfed on purpose, but regular run was not.ContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master0 -
Jhunn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yup. It's a bug which they have no idea how occurred and likewise have no idea how to fix.
Gave up.1 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
Two parts to this answer.
1. As a developer I can tell you that is not what version control does. What does it do? Picture two programmers making different changes to the same piece of code at the same time. If programmer 1 saves his changes, then programmer 2 saves his changes, everything programmer 1 did is lost/overwritten. Version control prevents that. If everything goes well it will automatically merge both sets of changes into the code. But if things are too complex for it to figure out what was intended programmer 2 will have to manually merge his changes into code. That's were things can get messy. If he does not really understand what programmer 1 did he might mess things up.
2. Even if all the checking in and merging works fine, it is still very possible for a change in one place to have unintended consequences in another. Especially with a complex system of buffs and debuffs like in ESO. Could a debuff be applied when not intended? Could someone have put in a multiplier somewhere and been off by 0.1 (10%)? Could someone be accidentally calling the wrong value from the database or using the wrong calc method for running? These are all mistakes that are very easy to make and damn hard to track down.
I suspect the bug happened when they nerfed sprint so those changes are where I would look. I would trace the calculation end to end and account for each value and modifier. But that is tedious work and it won't happen while they are working on a major (like really, really major) release like DB.
Edited by ContraTempo on May 30, 2016 6:31AMContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master1 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
It's called outsourcing.
What do you mean outsourcing? Like hiring a ctrontracter to program? @Pomaikai
Yes, like in hiring outside contract programmers. ZOS has recently started hiring local programmers again, so maybe they've learned to keep it in house now.
There are appropriate times to hire contractors. For example, if I were dealing with the lag issue and my team just could not figure it out, I might hire someone who specialized in exactly that sort of issue. People like that are very expensive but they also work miracles. Once the lag is fixed you cut them a check and say thanks. They go on to their next job, or take 6 months off since you just wrote them a big enough check they can do that.
Contractors can help you cope with surges in programming. If you are doing something big but already know that after release you will only need half as many programmers, you might hire contractors who understand the job is limited, rather than hire then lay off a bunch of staff.
If you have a lot of bugs to track down, you can try to handle that with contractors while your staff continues to develop the next DLC.
How good or bad contractors are depends a lot on who you hire, how your treat them, and how your shop does programming. On my project our lead architect use to be one of our contractors but we hired her on because she was so good and was willing to work for what we could pay. Her pay went down but she got access to some killer benefits and that was important for her family.
Contractors are just another option and whether that works out for the best depends details like those I have described above.ContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master1 -
bunnytrix✭✭✭✭ContraTempo wrote: »Yeah I totally believe they are still "working on a fix" for this "bug" to bring it "more in line to what it used to be." But it will not happen until some time after Dark Brotherhood launches, by which time we will hopefully have forgotten about it again.
So they now have been "working" on the "fix" since just after TG launch where at first they did their best to deny there was a problem, and since early April have been sinking any threads that mentioned it.
It's not a bug. Movement speed was nerfed on purpose, but they refuse to revert it for whatever reason.
And seriously ? Movement speed is 10% - 15% slower than it was before Thieves Guild launched and this company thinks its totally fine to just leave it like that for months and try to limit any damage with the usual "working on it " excuse.
Inaccurate. Normal movement was not nerfed on purpose. They admitted it was a bug once the vid of it was posted on an earlier thread. Sprint WAS nerfed on purpose, but regular run was not.
Don't be so naive.
Look at the history of the problem from when it was first reported and how ZOS tried to deny it.
They nerfed normal movement speed on purpose and called it a bug when they could not deny it any longer.
They still call it a "bug."
They have put off reverting it because they don't want to.3 -
NoRagret✭✭✭
3rd DLC is coming up why haven't you guys even updated us after this long?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We’re still working on this one, and do plan to make some improvements with the goal of bringing movement speed more in-line with where it used to be. Changes won’t be in until sometime after Dark Brotherhood launches, but we are working on it.1 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
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3rd DLC is coming up why haven't you guys even updated us after this long?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We’re still working on this one, and do plan to make some improvements with the goal of bringing movement speed more in-line with where it used to be. Changes won’t be in until sometime after Dark Brotherhood launches, but we are working on it.
I am at the point where I think they don't actually want to fix it and if they can find a way to get away with it, they won't, no matter how much we complain about it.
They say it is a minimal amount of speed that is reduced, but if it is so minimal, then why did a large amount of us notice this decrease in movement speed immediately when it happened?
Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
3rd DLC is coming up why haven't you guys even updated us after this long?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We’re still working on this one, and do plan to make some improvements with the goal of bringing movement speed more in-line with where it used to be. Changes won’t be in until sometime after Dark Brotherhood launches, but we are working on it.
I am at the point where I think they don't actually want to fix it and if they can find a way to get away with it, they won't, no matter how much we complain about it.
They say it is a minimal amount of speed that is reduced, but if it is so minimal, then why did a large amount of us notice this decrease in movement speed immediately when it happened?
At this point, who really remembers what the old 'speed' felt like? We've all adjusted to the new 'norm'. Whether the change was intentional or a bug, I would be truly surprised if we ever got the old speed back. Whether this was planned or a mistake, if I made decisions at zos, I would try to fix it, because in either case it reflects poorly on the company. zos is probably too focused on profitability to understand they have egg on their face, though.
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »SleepyTroll wrote: »Serious question. Anyone here who is a programmer can you explain how something like this happens? isn't there like version control and what not that are supposed to prevent changes to one thing effecting another?
It's called outsourcing.
What do you mean outsourcing? Like hiring a ctrontracter to program? @Pomaikai
Yes, like in hiring outside contract programmers. ZOS has recently started hiring local programmers again, so maybe they've learned to keep it in house now.
I think they keep the programming in house. What hiring we are seeing is (1) back fill to compensate for natural attrition, or (2) hiring resource for "unannounced projects". I have to wonder whether the "Producer" they are hiring is backfill or new resource.
As to how this happens? They made a change to something and, intentional or not, it changed the movement speed. It is possible that they did not even notice it, since they might not have been looking for it. Maybe they did notice it and decided that it was an acceptable side effect, given the size of the delta, and that they would fix it later.
Version control? We have no idea what ZOS uses for code management, QA control, or anything about how they manage their day-to-day development. They are not going to tell us, either. Personally, I think that all of ESO is stored on surplus floppy disks left over from DAoC in a filing cabinet in Matt Firor's office. It takes the developer days to find the right disk, and sometimes they misplace it. They are still looking for all the disks that they stored "Spell System" on, and they accidentally dropped "Murkmire" in a cup of very hot coffee last summer. Fortunately, they stopped slapping the disks on the side of the filing cabinet with magnets, but not before they lost most the original Imperial City.
As to why it remains unfixed? This is entirely resource management and prioritization. You have 10 people and 20 things to do. It is clear that all 20 things are not going to get done first, so 10 of them get done first. Making the complex simple, the 10 things that get done are the more important things. Clearly, they do not view fixing speed as one of the more important things to do right now. I also think it is more like they have 10 people and 200 things that need to be done.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sadly, sneak speeds are still incredibly far too slow.
please increase our sneak speeds. i beg of you.
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Drungly✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for your patience in this thread. To give you an update, this is still an issue (as you're well aware) and something we would still like to fix, but currently isn't a high priority due to other bugs the team is working on. We understand this isn't ideal, but keep in mind this is a global issue so everyone has the same movement speed reduction - and for what it's worth, the reduction is very slight compared to what it used to be. Not trying to sweep the issue under the rug, but just tossing out some food for thought.
We'll let you know when we have an update.
That was the reply in another thread.1