Sneak vs. Stealth vs. Invisibility

neomadmonkey · April 2014

Kind of confused. Ok, so some of the nightblade abilities mention sneak, stealth and/or invisibility and crouch attacks. Now, I know when you press CTRL you go into sneak mode, and invisibility comes when you cast certain spells, so in this case, what does it mean by "stealth" For example, Master Assassin says it "increases weapon damage while using Invisibility or Stealth. Successful crouch attacks stun for a longer duration." Wouldn't a stealth attack be the same as a crouch attack? And then one of the medium armor perks says it "decreases the detection area radius by 3% and the cost of Sneaking by 4%" So I don't know. Is Stealth the same as Sneak?

Shimond · April 2014

Stealth is sneak, but for the sneak attack you have to be stealthed and behind the target (in order to get the stun).

nerevarine1138 · April 2014

Just to clarify: you are in stealth mode when you're crouched, but you are only considered stealthed/hidden when the cursor is the flat line.

Vikova · April 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Just to clarify: you are in stealth mode when you're crouched, but you are only considered stealthed/hidden when the cursor is the flat line.

Isn't it the other way around? Sneak mode when crouched, but not necessarily "stealthed"?

RatsnevE · May 2014

How many seconds or perhaps what is the record number of seconds one can stay _invisible_? For invisibility does the NB hold an edge?

I think invisibility only comes from potions?

Can the NB use invisibility for a 1-hit kill more so then stealth which does work for 1-hit kills but isn't 100% every time you try--at least not yet for my PC at level 19 now?

Tiyamel · May 2014

RatsnevE wrote: »

How many seconds or perhaps what is the record number of seconds one can stay _invisible_? For invisibility does the NB hold an edge?

I think invisibility only comes from potions?

Can the NB use invisibility for a 1-hit kill more so then stealth which does work for 1-hit kills but isn't 100% every time you try--at least not yet for my PC at level 19 now?

Nightblades have an ability that gives them 2.5 seconds invisibility, other classes need to use potions, and yes a NB can 1-hit kill some npcs when attacked from behind using stealth and critical damage, and no its not 100% at least not at level 19

RatsnevE · May 2014

Tiyamel wrote: »

Nightblades have an ability that gives them 2.5 seconds invisibility, other classes need to use potions, and yes a NB can 1-hit kill some npcs when attacked from behind using stealth and critical damage, and no its not 100% at least not at level 19

Agree but won't potions last a lot longer then 2.5 seconds which even my NB would like at times sneaking past but up close to NPCs?

I wonder if switching weapons when your invisible passing by something if the noise effect is a give away?

Tiyamel · May 2014

[/quote]Agree but won't potions last a lot longer then 2.5 seconds which even my NB would like at times sneaking past but up close to NPCs?

I wonder if switching weapons when your invisible passing by something if the noise effect is a give away?[/quote]

never used potions so I can't say, but I do know you can keep NB invisibility going with good timing and a lot of mana, I have managed to get mine close to 10 seconds before i ran out of juice, great for getting around in hard areas but then screwed if something jumps you and all that precious mana gone... and as for weapon swap giving away, its never give me away to NPC's, but PvP could be a whole different matter

RatsnevE · May 2014

Tiyamel wrote: »

Never used potions so I can't say, but I do know you can keep NB invisibility going with good timing and a lot of mana, I have managed to get mine close to 10 seconds before i ran out of juice, great for getting around in hard areas but then screwed if something jumps you and all that precious mana gone... and as for weapon swap giving away, its never give me away to NPC's, but PvP could be a whole different matter.

Cool! Why not use invisibility potions too and save the mana? And, you can't trust those sneaky PvPers. If I touched one while invisible with a ten-foot pole they'd grab the pole and kill my PC with it.

Delte · May 2014

I have killed some npcs from stealth in one hit as a nightblade using dual daggers. This is very situational though as you need to be behind the target in the rear arc if you imagine a circle with it cut 4 times. (rough guide)

Nightblades can also go invisible with a skill from the Shadow line for 2.5 seconds and this increases with a passive but not by a lot though.

There are potions one can make that will grant a 3 or 4 second invisibility as well that would work for all classes.

A good attack to use after using invisibility on a nightblade would be veiled strike which increases the damage done from invisibility or stealth.

Also a nightblade can make a really good tank if speced right as some of the passives coupled with heavy armour with shield would make a really tough tank.

RatsnevE · May 2014

Sneaking only goes so far... Did you ever kill Pelidii in 'Pelidii's End' in one-hit? In over a half-dozen original attempts from stealth/hidden and deaths I wasn't successful once in even surprising him and we're level matched! This is my biggest gripe--that high-end NPCs don't play by the same rules and are thus referred to as a 'boss' even which detracts from the environment. It is tough when you have an expertise that does nothing with no explanation against one foe but can be a devastating advantage at times against all other foes. It isn't fair and when this battle was over and all the NPCs are so congratulatory about the victory my PC was telling them to get f-d and was left exhausted and in an hour's recovery mode.

Hilgara · May 2014

Delte wrote: »

A good attack to use after using invisibility on a nightblade would be veiled strike which increases the damage done from invisibility or stealth.
.

The tool tip mentions stealth not invisibility. They are not the same thing. You can be invisible while standing directly in front of a target but not in stealth. Stupid I know....

GreyPilgrim · October 2014

Ok, so I'm going to totally necro this thread because I have some questions about the differences between regular old sneak, and the invisibility generated by cloak, and also invis pots. (And I did in fact search through a number of threads looking for an answer.)

My questions are prompted by the recent adjustment on the PTS server to 'stealthed attacks'. My first question is, "Are both regular sneak and cloaked/invisible considered 'stealthed attacks'?"

My second question is contingent on the first. "If Cloaked is considered 'stealthed', and 'stealthed attacks always critical hit', then what purpose does Shadow Cloak's %100 increase in critical chance actually serve?"

Because if the cloaked state is already stealthed, and stealthed automatically provides a crit, what purpose would %100 increase in critical serve on an attack that's already going to automatically crit?

Or is it that when ZOS says 'stealthed attacks always crit' what they mean to say is 'stealthed attacks have a %100 chance of critting', and since that chance can be mitigated by, say, impenetrable, adding another %100 helps make it REALLY certain?

Or does invisible state just not actually provide the automatic crit?

Anyone out there know? Thanks!

BruhItsOver9000 · July 2016

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Ok, so I'm going to totally necro this thread because I have some questions about the differences between regular old sneak, and the invisibility generated by cloak, and also invis pots. (And I did in fact search through a number of threads looking for an answer.)

My questions are prompted by the recent adjustment on the PTS server to 'stealthed attacks'. My first question is, "Are both regular sneak and cloaked/invisible considered 'stealthed attacks'?"

My second question is contingent on the first. "If Cloaked is considered 'stealthed', and 'stealthed attacks always critical hit', then what purpose does Shadow Cloak's %100 increase in critical chance actually serve?"

Because if the cloaked state is already stealthed, and stealthed automatically provides a crit, what purpose would %100 increase in critical serve on an attack that's already going to automatically crit?

Or is it that when ZOS says 'stealthed attacks always crit' what they mean to say is 'stealthed attacks have a %100 chance of critting', and since that chance can be mitigated by, say, impenetrable, adding another %100 helps make it REALLY certain?

Or does invisible state just not actually provide the automatic crit?

Anyone out there know? Thanks!

No one answered this, Nooooooo.

failkiwib16_ESO · July 2016

The tooltips of skills aren't reliable, as they can be interpreted in different ways and sometimes they are just wrong. I really hope someone gets to answer GreyPilgrim's questions Q_Q I would also like to know the answer...

E-Zekiel · July 2016

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Ok, so I'm going to totally necro this thread because I have some questions about the differences between regular old sneak, and the invisibility generated by cloak, and also invis pots. (And I did in fact search through a number of threads looking for an answer.)

My questions are prompted by the recent adjustment on the PTS server to 'stealthed attacks'. My first question is, "Are both regular sneak and cloaked/invisible considered 'stealthed attacks'?"

My second question is contingent on the first. "If Cloaked is considered 'stealthed', and 'stealthed attacks always critical hit', then what purpose does Shadow Cloak's %100 increase in critical chance actually serve?"

Because if the cloaked state is already stealthed, and stealthed automatically provides a crit, what purpose would %100 increase in critical serve on an attack that's already going to automatically crit?

Or is it that when ZOS says 'stealthed attacks always crit' what they mean to say is 'stealthed attacks have a %100 chance of critting', and since that chance can be mitigated by, say, impenetrable, adding another %100 helps make it REALLY certain?

Or does invisible state just not actually provide the automatic crit?

Anyone out there know? Thanks!

No one answered this, Nooooooo.

I'm assuming you want these questions answered since you quoted but didn't ask any yourself :-P

1. A sneak attack is a sneak attack. An invisible sneak attack is a sneak attack. An invisible attack is not a sneak attack. IE, if you have to be sneaking for it to be a sneak attack. Invisibility is helpful towards achieving one, but not determinant.
2. Cloaked is not considered stealth. I don't think stealth attacks always crit? But they might. Even if ZOS said it, I'm skeptical, I'd have to pay attention to my damage floaters. Regardless, stealth attack and strong attack are distinctly different.
3. The reason 100% chance of crit is useful, even if basic stealth attacks always crit (which I do not think is currently the case, but may be), is because it affects all attacks, not just stealth attacks.
4. If you have the 100% crit morph of your NB stealth, it will always provide the bonus, regardless of whether or not you are actually sneaking. This is good for burst damage but not for sustain, so don't get too tied up in this, because the time it takes to make the most of it could be used to wind up a second attack rather than guaranteeing a crit on one. Great for opening, though.

E-Zekiel · July 2016

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Ok, so I'm going to totally necro this thread because I have some questions about the differences between regular old sneak, and the invisibility generated by cloak, and also invis pots. (And I did in fact search through a number of threads looking for an answer.)

My questions are prompted by the recent adjustment on the PTS server to 'stealthed attacks'. My first question is, "Are both regular sneak and cloaked/invisible considered 'stealthed attacks'?"

My second question is contingent on the first. "If Cloaked is considered 'stealthed', and 'stealthed attacks always critical hit', then what purpose does Shadow Cloak's %100 increase in critical chance actually serve?"

Because if the cloaked state is already stealthed, and stealthed automatically provides a crit, what purpose would %100 increase in critical serve on an attack that's already going to automatically crit?

Or is it that when ZOS says 'stealthed attacks always crit' what they mean to say is 'stealthed attacks have a %100 chance of critting', and since that chance can be mitigated by, say, impenetrable, adding another %100 helps make it REALLY certain?

Or does invisible state just not actually provide the automatic crit?

Anyone out there know? Thanks!

No one answered this, Nooooooo.

I'm assuming you want these questions answered since you quoted but didn't ask any yourself :-P

1. A sneak attack is a sneak attack. An invisible sneak attack is a sneak attack. An invisible attack is not a sneak attack. IE, if you have to be sneaking for it to be a sneak attack. Invisibility is helpful towards achieving one, but not determinant. For example, if you do not sneak, but you have the auto crit stealth and use it while winding up an attack, you will simply do a critical strong attack.
2. Cloaked is not considered stealth. I don't think stealth attacks always crit? But they might. Even if ZOS said it, I'm skeptical, I'd have to pay attention to my damage floaters. Regardless, stealth attack and strong attack are distinctly different.
3. The reason 100% chance of crit is useful, even if basic stealth attacks always crit (which I do not think is currently the case, but may be), is because it affects all attacks, not just stealth attacks.
4. If you have the 100% crit morph of your NB stealth, it will always provide the bonus, regardless of whether or not you are actually sneaking. This is good for burst damage but not for sustain, so don't get too tied up in this, because the time it takes to make the most of it could be used to wind up a second attack rather than guaranteeing a crit on one. Great for opening, though.

Van_0S · July 2016

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

Ok, so I'm going to totally necro this thread because I have some questions about the differences between regular old sneak, and the invisibility generated by cloak, and also invis pots. (And I did in fact search through a number of threads looking for an answer.)

My questions are prompted by the recent adjustment on the PTS server to 'stealthed attacks'. My first question is, "Are both regular sneak and cloaked/invisible considered 'stealthed attacks'?"

Yes !

GreyPilgrim wrote: »

My second question is contingent on the first. "If Cloaked is considered 'stealthed', and 'stealthed attacks always critical hit', then what purpose does Shadow Cloak's %100 increase in critical chance actually serve?"

What assassin passive gives is a boon to your critical % like if you slot an assassin passive, you get x% boon in critical that is, if you have 45% critical without slotting an assassin passive then once you slot your critical increases by x%

Shadow disguise ( morph of dark cloak), grants 100℅ critical chance. So, it always grants a critical to your next attack. That is if you have 45% critical chance, and when you use this ability then you will get 145% critical chance ( a grantee crit)
Also, this !

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkdkjg70h6wdJ953yVZh3td8dC_fySfJE2aTh8Yk9FRgL0CYBD

This grantees a stun to any enemy while under stealth.( not to bosses)