Dragonknight: Empowering Chains versus Unrelenting Grip after changes since 2.3.0

Geralt_of_Aalst · July 2016

I'm back after 8 months of absence from ESO. Lots of nice changes happened in the meantime. But some I find questionable. For my DK, I was disappointed that Empowering Chains no longer pulls one mob away from its group and delivers it to your toes for an easy kill before his friends can even reach you. So I started googling and found this thread here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245197/dk-changes-rant-thanks/p1. It's a pretty old thread by now and it got a tad off topic, so I think I better start a new thread.

But ok. When I read...

MaxwellCrystal wrote:

Empowering chains is a NO!!! Do not make it so you pull yourself to the enemy make it the other way around, you should always pull the enemy to you and if can't be pulled then it should give you the resources back.

.. I thought: "Right on man, my thoughts exactly". But then I read other people's posts explaining why they made this change and why a lot of people are happy with it, for example:

Kasyee wrote:

I actually like the change and prefer it that way. Lots of DK abilities are tanky with some good mass dmg abilities. I actually prefer to be in the middle of enemies to root them and burn them before they can target my teammates. Thats an easy way to get all agro.
Pretty often before I get in the middle of them I already have lost around 30% of my hp just running to the good spot to cathc them all in my mass abilities. It's better for tanky builds.

leepalmer95 wrote:

Chains pulling you is a gap closer. Dk's needed one.

NBrookus wrote:

Empowering Chains = DK class gap closer we've been asking for. One morph pulls, one morph always closes. Sounds good to me.

So now I completely understand why they changed it and why (most) people are happy with the change. But one thing still doesn't make sense to me. If the new and improved Empowering Chains are a gap closer for one-on-one fights and for tanky builds, then isn't it highly illogical for Empowering Chains to have the 20% damage bonus? I mean, the other morph, Unrelenting Grip, still pulls mobs to you, so in a way it's the better choice for DD who doesn't want to get in the middle of a group of mobs, let alone a group of other players in PvP, but rather wants to single one mob/PC out. But Unrelenting Grip does not have any damage bonus, so DD is pretty much forced to take Empowering Chains morph anyway. So who would even choose Unrelenting Grip anymore?

In short, I understand the benefits of the change to EC from 'pulling' to 'being pulled' for some builds, and I'm not saying they should change that back, but I am saying that adding the +20% damage bonus to EC instead of UG is illogical and should be reversed. Or what am I missing still? I play a stamina DD DK, by the way.

ThePaleItalian · July 2016

Sword and Board has a gap closer and so does 2 handed.

I just Shield assault, caltrops and talons. All grouped up, aoe and taunt away.

I have used chains in PvP and PvE, I just always like to rush in and gather instead of pulling. However in solo questing, pulling a target is always nice as well.

Just my two copper round monies..

leepalmer95 · July 2016

Well to be honest both morphs are useless in pvp, chains doesn't work half the time , the dmg is weak and there is no room for dk's to slot it.

The one where you pull a mob to you is more of a pve thing, tank pulls mobs like archers or long range mobs next to him while everyone else aoe nukes it.

Dubhliam · July 2016

I thinks the changes are good.
DKs lacked a gap closer, they got one.
And I as a tank gladly welcomed the changes to Unrelenting grip that prevents you from gap closing.
Remember it used to be if a target can't be pulled to you, you get pulled instead. This was a nuisance while tanking.

As for Empower, I think the gap closer is the correct morph to have it.
The pull morph is reserve for utility/tank DKs, not DDs.
As a DD, it is not your job to pull mobs to yourself, that is the tank's job. You have plenty of other options to activate Empower with (any Mages guild skill).

Draxys · July 2016

To be honest, it needs a CC like invasion for it to be useful to magicka DKs in pvp. As of right now, there are too many skills that DKs need, they can't consolidate their skill bars as well as other classes, and thus everyone runs a CC instead of a gap closer.