Minalan wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

So many great ideas, I posted mine on the racial passive thread.

I hope something is going to be done to Bretons because we all agree their passives suck in their current form. Bretons are the argonians of update 11.

I disagree, I think Breton is fine, I have no problems being successful with my Breton Magicka Templar. I don't expect Bretons to be EQUAL to Altmer or Dunmer, just as Bosmer is not supposed to be EQUAL to Khajiit or Redguard.

How they are fine? Comparing Altemrs or Dunmer? Breton is very prominent human race and deserves to be best not be a mediocre..

This means I should switch all my 5 bretons to Dunmer or altemrs?

So they will be good by looks only?

They are not SUPPOSED TO BE 'compared' or EQUAL... they are supposed to be DIFFERENT allowing for different builds and different focuses. If you're only out for DPS, than pick Altmer or Dunmer if you're a min/maxer, but if you play for RP or want a different type of build that isn't solely focused on DPS, then Breton is completely fine. Even when focused on DPS, Breton is still completely fine. If you can't be successful with a Breton, then clearly it isn't the racial passives that's the problem, but your skill.

I'm okay with being different, so long as the differences are relatively comparable.

For example: alter get a regen bonus of 9%.
Breton get a Magicka cost reduction of 3%.

Is that different? Yes
Is that comparable? No. Breton would need 5-6% cost reduction to be in the same class as a 9% regen bonus.

Consider raising the Magicka resist and cost reduction passives please.

Have you run the numbers since the cost increase with DB game update?!? Also, again you say 'relatively comparable'... relative to whose opinion? Because clearly according to Eric Wrobel, Breton's ARE comparable and HE is the one making the decisions on this. I just happen to agree with him, Breton's are fine right now. Would I love to see an increase, sure... but is it necessary for success, NO.

Why should one class get two or three pieces of light armor passive, and another gets just one?

Either nerf Altmer, or buff Breton slightly. I'd rather see the latter happen.

I'd rather see a buff to Breton too, who wouldn't want to see a buff to their character, but again, if Eric doesn't feel it's "necessary for success" then it isn't going to happen and complaining about it and beating it to death isn't going to change his mind. ZOS makes changes based upon actual facts, including actual numbers, presented by forum users, not subjective opinions. The reason they reversed Khajiit was because the forum viewpoint of them becoming OP was shown to be true when ZOS did an in-depth investigation, which is also when they discovered the Redguard passive wasn't working as intended. If players can PROVE with actual numbers that Bretons are severely handicapped with racial passives to the point of being unsuccessful because of it, then Eric would most likely be more inclined to make changes. However, since ZOS has access to Leaderboards and PvP data, apparently they aren't seeing the disparity that some people here are claiming... and personal observation wise, I still see a TON of Bretons in-game.

I didn't say we weren't successful because of it. But it might be nice not to be the worst (comparative) choice of three Magicka races.

Alright mate. Here's your math:

Light armor: evocation - gives 3% cost reduction per piece equipped.

That's the Breton bonus. One piece.

Light armor: recovery - gives 4% Magicka regen per piece.

What's the Altmer bonus here? That's right, over two pieces of light armor as a passive.

Balance? I understand that cost reduction is a little better than regen, since it's better not to spend mana to begin with rather than wait for it to come back. But by no means is it THREE TIMES better (3% versus 9%).

Why use light armor as an example? Because most Magicka classes wear at least five pieces of it. It's significant when comparing passive stacking, because it's our biggest base Magicka recovery and cost contribution before considering CP.

Not enough?! How about the fact that you can get the Breton cost reduction bonus with TEN points in magician, but it takes about THIRTY to get the Altmer 9% regen bonus with Arcanist? Can I get an extra 20 points of CP please?

I'm not about to create a 3D plot of this like they want. An increase to 4-5% total on the cost passive would probably be enough.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Bretons are fine, lorewise as well as gameplay wise.
Bretons have always been the defensive mages. Gifted with magicka and sustain, but also with a natural resistance to magic. And the defense bonus they have in ESO is noticeable.

Sorry to say that, but actually Altmer need buffs (or bretons a nerf):) Lorewise that is. Doesn't work that Bretons have the same Magicka bonus. That's not lore friendly at all.

How much do you know about breton lore wise ? High rock had faced worst war and bretons under shadow of elf becomes good with magic talent that includes Spell Absorption, Resistance and Healing.

They also have talent of swords and are best merchants.

The current pasives does not fit much per lore they are not best healers. Altmer heal same as breton, they do not have any magicka absorption talent.

What they have is 3% cost reduction? That is unfair comparing altemers 9% recovery. Enough Cost reduction can easily get using CP, light armor piece, sets I.e seducer.. 3% is very low..

They need boost in passives altmers and Dunmer crosses breton in dps, its matter for end game contents and pvp.

May be it does not matter for some because they are altemrs or Dunmer dps..

Breton pasive need improvements..

Dunmer are overpowered, 7% fire damage buff, 2% shock and frost..

6% max stamina, they may need a nerf not bretons..

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

Dracane wrote: »

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TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

For pve at least dunmers are much better than Breton for night blade and Templar as some ~40-50% of your dps is flame

The only flame damage you have is sun fire and sun fire is not 50% of your dps.

Dracane wrote: »

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TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

For pve at least dunmers are much better than Breton for night blade and Templar as some ~40-50% of your dps is flame

The only flame damage you have is sun fire and sun fire is not 50% of your dps.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Yes this race need damage buff, as they have lower DPS comparing Altemrs or Dunmer.

Altemrs and Dunmers are still best magicka DPS choice. Though Altemrs are very sustained as well.

Dunmer shock and frost damage buff are useless, still fire damage will be preferred instead bretons should get some damage buff.

Developers can reduce spell resistance and add 2-3-4% damage buff. This race deserves serious changes in racial passives.

Breton Spell cost reduction to 3% is a big jolk comparing Light Armor offers 3% per piece. Even champion system offers descent reduction to 16%..seducer set offers 8%..

Altmers recovery passives gives 9% and two peiece light armor offers 8% recovery and breton reduce spell cost passive 3% is offered by 1 piece light armor. Seems like totally unbalanced pasive b/w race.

Now argonians are getting Healing buff so what bretons are left best at?

Breton is beautiful human race, there are lot of bretons around. People love them and looking forward for some good racial changes.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

Then you have no idea how recovery works, anyway you need good recovery for longer fights (pvp or with bosses), anyway 3% is nothing compared other reductions which are available to all races..it's not special anything. Out of 4000 spell cost it only reduces 120.

Recovery works in different way, normally people running with 1.5k+ recovery ad most set provides good recovery buff which is than further increased by 9% (Altmer passive) that is very good.

New set include amberplasm which offers around 400 recovery is gonna change recovery stuff anyway..this 9% is gonna add a lot and 3% reduction will remain crap offering 120 reduction over spell with cost 4000

Dracane wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

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TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

For pve at least dunmers are much better than Breton for night blade and Templar as some ~40-50% of your dps is flame

The only flame damage you have is sun fire and sun fire is not 50% of your dps.

Also the fire staff, and wall of elements, and your ultimate that should be Shooting Star... it adds up as only puncturing and the execute are left with magic damage, rest are fire.

Same thing applies for Nightblades...

So please stop misleading people at least.

Ah alright. Well, I never pve, I did not know how Templars do their damage Didn't expect anyone besides Sorcs to even look at the destruction staff line. In pvp, all they use is puncturing sweeps and maybe sun fire.

Reykice wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

##

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but cost reduction is additive on base cost of a spell or an ability. This means that no matter what you have on other cost reduction effects, the Breton passive will always shave off 3% of the spell's base cost (barring fixed amount cost reduction jewellery enchants, which actually diminish the passive's effectiveness).

Regeneration conversely always only considers base regeneration plus fixed amount bonuses. In order to make the 9% regeneration passive more efficient, you need to stack regeneration bonuses. In order to have the cost reduction efficient, you do not need to stack other cost reduction bonuses.

That means, especially with the current min/max meta, in order to make the altmer passive effective, you need to sacrifice damage for regeneration. This is not the case for the breton passive.

This is why I value altmer over breton for healing (where you would stack regen anyways) and vice versa for damage, as it allows me to stack more bang.

9% magicka regen is something like 50 regen every 2 seconds I believe. It's ridiculous to say, that it is superior to 3% cost reduction.

Also, Altmer and Dunmer only add something to elemental damage. Templars and Nightblades barely use any elemental damage. Bretons is the superior choice for these 2 classes, Altmer is only good as a Sorc and Dunmer only good for DKs.

These people should stop complaining, breton is the best magicka race.

For pve at least dunmers are much better than Breton for night blade and Templar as some ~40-50% of your dps is flame

The only flame damage you have is sun fire and sun fire is not 50% of your dps.

Also the fire staff, and wall of elements, and your ultimate that should be Shooting Star... it adds up as only puncturing and the execute are left with magic damage, rest are fire.

Same thing applies for Nightblades...

So please stop misleading people at least.

Ah alright. Well, I never pve, I did not know how Templars do their damage Didn't expect anyone besides Sorcs to even look at the destruction staff line. In pvp, all they use is puncturing sweeps and maybe sun fire.

Since they buffed Wall of Elements its mandatory in PvE. In PvP people don`t stay in it but in PvE it does wonders... making Altmer and Dunmer much better compared to Breton.

Everyone expected them to change it but... for some reason they skipped over Bretons. Hopefully they will read this thread and change their mind.

Dracane wrote: »

Breton is still one of the 3 best races for magicka. It's just a different style. Not everything needs to be equal.
Look at classes and the imbalance between them. Races are a minor problem imo.