This idea would be pretty simple to change in my opinion. Weapons are what give you your base weapon/spell damage. So essentially we could lower damage/tool tip value from sets and raise the weapon/spell damage your weapons give you.

Then utility sets will get more value.

My only concern with this, will we end up in the same scenario where damage sets do not feel worth it over certain utility sets? Since utility set damage would not be far off from people stacking damage, would there really be a point to stack damage?

It really depends how much of a difference were talking about. That would be something the developers would need to look into.

thankyourat wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

The high damage in PvP is balanced by how tanky some builds are capable of being atm. I don't think you can directly nerf damage without making certain builds truly unkillable.

how tanky some builds are...

Its like building a NB burst around how well a templar can heal, then nerf the heal.

Make armor midigate dmg. Currently about 10-14k armor pen is standard because of breech and rend (10k low end non mace, 14k high end of HA)

This makes for real easy gameplay because you CP all damage into mighty or elemental expert for the biggest gains in dmg. If you raise armor to a point where investing in penetration as a choice to combat heavy armor builds.( The amount per point would have to be raised. )

Some builds are incredibly tanky though. I have 43k magic and 3800 sd buffed and there are still players I can't burst through or take upwards of 6 or 7 minutes to beat. Healing is too strong and mitigation is also really strong as is. And if you nerf damage you would also have to nerf healing and mitigation to balance the game out

Yea ive fought the templar/dk tanks as well. What i did was slot 3 strong dot and a strong dps ability (dizzying swing) and burnt them that way. Tanks are group set ups (except blazing shield build, crazy return dmg) and cant really fight alone.

If ZoS changes resource cost by raising it to reflect effect ( gapcloser spam, shield casting spam, heaviest hitting abilities) it could balance that out. And tie the cost reduction of break free, dodge roll, and damage shield cost to the armor abilities for Heavy, Medium, and Light armor. There is to much passive reduction of cost given from armor sets that can essentially make spamming the hardest hitting abilities (Snipe and Uppercut the main culprits) cost effective.

They increase cost.with DK class abilities and it essentially made spamming them not effective.

Worst thing that could happen did happen with Orsinium when regen/max health food came out. The balance was broken. Made resource stacking that much worse because of non tradeoff. Not many people run drinks because you give up to much survival for minimal regen increase. If they halved or 3/4 current value it would be a good start.

Thats why there is a pts, not just to hype up DLC ZoS.

Lower healing, or raise cost significantly. Raise spammable dps cost. That way you can go full dmg to time a burst while you weather the storm or go high regen/low dmg to put consistent pressure.

Raise Armor Level FFS. Having 0 protection in light armor is stupid.

"Hai guis, i got my tee shirt of julianos on, lets go fight some demons! Yea its made of Ancestor silk, this ancient plant material that only grows out of blood spilt on the battlefield of Tamriel. Awesome? Not really. Its like wearing a wet napkin from Wayrest Burgers."

ManDraKE wrote: »

The idea is good, but lowering the max possible damage will make people that is already unkilleable, even more unkileable. With the new fortress passive and the strudy trait, is very easy to make a permablock builds that is unkilleable with less than 4-5 people hitting him (and i'm talking about 4-5 top pvp players hitting him, those builds can tank entire raids of "normal" players), even magika builds can pull permablock builds now...And malubeth makes them even more unkilleable, because even if you use hard CC's like fear to break the block, they get healed by malubeth.

The idea of the video is good imo, but they should also rebalance damage mitigation in order to make it viable. We are in a weird spot, in one hand, sharpened and other forms of penetration are pushing damage really high, but in order hand, tank builds with permablock and malubeth are capable of taking insane amounts of damage making them unkilleable (and with the new guard mechanics, ignoring them is no longer an option, they are no longer useless zombies, they can make a glass cannon DD extremly hard to kill while guard is up)

This is how im feeling about it these days. Tanks do extremely well in pvp this patch, and with this i see a lot more build diversity now conpared to anytime afyer they removed soft caps. I think the availability of a variety of difgirent build reviews is what hurts build diversity currently (more so than the way damage is calculated, although i still see room for improvement).

Most pvp build videos ive seen and responses i hear from people about pvp builds focus on these high damage builds, but there are a few that have good builds that dont focus so much on maxing one stat. One example is patrick scott's regenerator build videos. Currently i run a armor stacking, high regen build that is quite effective solo. I use armor master, marksman and bloodspawn (5 med, 2heavy; stats buffed: 2k wpn dmg, 2.6k regen w/o continuos, 35k stam, 36k resitence). I still kill *** and can take some heat, but i dont think many people would suggest armor master if their buddy asked them to reccomend a good pvp set.

The majority of players copy or just barely tweak the builds they hear about and see online. I think more people thinking outside the easily available builds and posting the info online would be more beneficial than waiting for zos to decide they will change the code and then zos figuring out how to implement it. We all know how long it takes zos to implement a chnage like that.

Written on phone, so who knows if this actually makes an sense

Soris wrote: »

softcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcapssoftcaps

A legend says, if you say something 40 times in less than a minute, it will come true in 40 days.

I count 41

TBois wrote: »

anks do extremely well in pvp this patch, and with this i see a lot more build diversity now conpared to anytime afyer they removed soft caps. I think the availability of a variety of difgirent build reviews is what hurts build diversity currently (more so than the way damage is calculated, although i still see room for improvement).

there is no build diversity. There are 3 kind of players/builds:

- Players who run cheese malubeth/fasallas builds
- Players who refuse to run cheese builds
- Players who still haven't realized about the cheese build

I have no problem with tanks, but tanks shouldn't be inmortal, even less when the player using the build is PLAIN BAD. Any PvE player can run a build of those and be *** inmortal withouth even know how to PvP. This meta is turning mediocre players into effective PvP players.

Also pee tee ess.

Successful and competitive games like League have dynamic test server activity with an active and informed test community and small, frequent patches where they experiment with stuff like this. ZOS wherE?

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Remove the damage multiplier for resource pools. If you stack magicka to the roof, then you should have more magicka. It shouldn't make you hit harder too. Then you could remove the battle spirit nerf to damage and to shields. This will make using lesser damage shields and lesser damage skills viable again.

Its like softcaps without actually re-instating soft caps. So ZOS doesn't have to actually admit their removal was a mistake.

Yes ^

Noone thought of health scaling abilities make to much of an impact on pvp? Like healing ward should provide the same shield size no matter what, but at low health the shield heals more for remaining points. Or if you make templars healing done increased by x% for the amount of remaining health on them, not the target. Just seeing my 20 seconds worth of set up being countered because i couldnt burst 25k hps in 1 second during break free to finish the fight kind of annoying.

Sypher did hit the nail on the head.

At this point however I have given up on ZOS and their ability to properly balance pvp and classes. We're over 2 years in and they just keep resetting class skills every few months and making different crazy OP specs that are glaring and obvious every update.

The closest they ever got was 1.5. Had they just stayed with 1.5 made some small tweaks, nudged progression more towards gear and delivering meaty content (see Dawnguard and Dragonborn from Skyrim and Shivering Isles from Oblivion) instead of introducing an unbalanced CP grind they would be pretty close to having a solid game.

My pvp time was waned considerably the last few months to the point I have hardly any interest in it anymore. The CP system really ruined pvp. Anyone who was around in the early days remembers the Bowplar it was a Templar who used both bow and arrow and magic abilities equally without being gimped, 1.6 killed that Templar spec all together, 1.6 killed every hybrid interesting build we ever had for pvp.

Eso has become a game I log on do some dungeons farm stuff, BS with friends and log. Pvp lags too much and is just too unbalanced. Just my thoughts.

Perhaps things will change, but I doubt it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My pvp time was waned considerably the last few months to the point I have hardly any interest in it anymore. The CP system really ruined pvp. Anyone who was around in the early days remembers the Bowplar it was a Templar who used both bow and arrow and magic abilities equally without being gimped, 1.6 killed that Templar spec all together, 1.6 killed every hybrid interesting build we ever had for pvp.

QFT. RIP Hybrids. The Crapeon system is responsible for almost every nerf to skills and gear making everything more bland and boring because 25% boost to damage, healing, regen or mitigation makes almost anything OP. We need to go back to classic PvP. back when it worked and didn't lag.

Yes , while I completely agree with everything you said in this thread , We both know the CP system is here to stay . We can't even get many players into Azura's Star . Too many like the cookie cutter play style the CP system reinforced . So people that know how to diversify a build and make amazing results are left holding a empty roll of toilet paper after the [snip] fest CP created ...