Still no fixes for sorcs

Lokey0024 · July 2016

Im not sure if the basis of comparison is how strong they where (OP) or how strong compaired to other classes. 2 of us where completely destroyed by a sorc in the sewers tonight. They used mobility, cced with ice staff, timed hits and used meteor or soul assault. I even timed his shield cast 4 seconds foss/dbos as shield dropped.

Think the best quote i have heard is the good ones will still wreck, the bad ones get rekt.

Derra · July 2016

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Im not sure if the basis of comparison is how strong they where (OP) or how strong compaired to other classes. 2 of us where completely destroyed by a sorc in the sewers tonight. They used mobility, cced with ice staff, timed hits and used meteor or soul assault. I even timed his shield cast 4 seconds foss/dbos as shield dropped.

Think the best quote i have heard is the good ones will still wreck, the bad ones get rekt.

And yet another player with the lack of ability to understand that it´s not about sorcs underperforming currently but simply that they are the most one dimensional class when specced magica and not fun to play.

Sorcs have been the least mained class in the last pvp-class poll and that was before DB update. The class did not improve since then:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266957/pvp-what-class-do-you-main/p1

Sorcerer is the only class that is sub 20%. That is a huge difference compared to ANY other class and it was BEFORE the DB nerfs to class when sorcs where considered op. If players really always take the road of least resistance there would have been more sorcs to begin with. Now there are even less (atleast for magica).

It´s a problem with the classes design philosophy not with the resulting performance. It´s simply not fun to play.

Mumyo · July 2016

Derra wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.

Yeah, they're so balanced that noone plays them anymore. Definition of balanced when noone plays the class, right? :P

shoes and apples... There are still many sorcs around but way too many magplars.
People tend to play the easiest classes and now sorc is not the easiest anymore.

Sorc was never as popular and predominant as DKs were pre 1.6 or NBs afterwards and Magplars are now - so what´s the point exactly?

i quoted someone, there is my point. 1.6 was Magsorc and NB time. That's what i talk about.
And No! There surely were as many sorcs as there are magplars now!

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Im not sure if the basis of comparison is how strong they where (OP) or how strong compaired to other classes. 2 of us where completely destroyed by a sorc in the sewers tonight. They used mobility, cced with ice staff, timed hits and used meteor or soul assault. I even timed his shield cast 4 seconds foss/dbos as shield dropped.

Think the best quote i have heard is the good ones will still wreck, the bad ones get rekt.

And yet another player with the lack of ability to understand that it´s not about sorcs underperforming currently but simply that they are the most one dimensional class when specced magica and not fun to play.

Sorcs have been the least mained class in the last pvp-class poll and that was before DB update. The class did not improve since then:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266957/pvp-what-class-do-you-main/p1

Sorcerer is the only class that is sub 20%. That is a huge difference compared to ANY other class and it was BEFORE the DB nerfs to class when sorcs where considered op. If players really always take the road of least resistance there would have been more sorcs to begin with. Now there are even less (atleast for magica).

It´s a problem with the classes design philosophy not with the resulting performance. It´s simply not fun to play.

That i understand but Sorc community doesn't ask for that, they just cry and say they are underperforming, so i guess u have to do a thread on that topic! I'd support it, because even i am bored of sorc gameplay when facing them.

Dracane · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.

This is not true. Sorcerer can't be stronger, because all their damage has taken a hit.
The only slight buff is, that annulment now absorbs all damage and this is only important for the cancerous shieldstackers.

For those who play fair with 1 shield (like me) we definately did not get buffed, no matter if elite Sorc or not.
It's ridiculous how shieldstacking gets rewarded, even though they want to nerf it. And how fairplay with 1 shield just gets nerfed.
Once you play with only 1 shield or maybe 2, you'll see how bad and squishy Sorcerers are. You need to spam 3 shields in order to survive something.

Sorcerers need reliable damage buffs and single shields need to be buffed and shieldstacking finally removed.

Grao · July 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.

Yeah, they're so balanced that noone plays them anymore. Definition of balanced when noone plays the class, right? :P

shoes and apples... There are still many sorcs around but way too many magplars.
People tend to play the easiest classes and now sorc is not the easiest anymore.

Sorc was never as popular and predominant as DKs were pre 1.6 or NBs afterwards and Magplars are now - so what´s the point exactly?

i quoted someone, there is my point. 1.6 was Magsorc and NB time. That's what i talk about.
And No! There surely were as many sorcs as there are magplars now!

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Im not sure if the basis of comparison is how strong they where (OP) or how strong compaired to other classes. 2 of us where completely destroyed by a sorc in the sewers tonight. They used mobility, cced with ice staff, timed hits and used meteor or soul assault. I even timed his shield cast 4 seconds foss/dbos as shield dropped.

Think the best quote i have heard is the good ones will still wreck, the bad ones get rekt.

And yet another player with the lack of ability to understand that it´s not about sorcs underperforming currently but simply that they are the most one dimensional class when specced magica and not fun to play.

Sorcs have been the least mained class in the last pvp-class poll and that was before DB update. The class did not improve since then:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266957/pvp-what-class-do-you-main/p1

Sorcerer is the only class that is sub 20%. That is a huge difference compared to ANY other class and it was BEFORE the DB nerfs to class when sorcs where considered op. If players really always take the road of least resistance there would have been more sorcs to begin with. Now there are even less (atleast for magica).

It´s a problem with the classes design philosophy not with the resulting performance. It´s simply not fun to play.

That i understand but Sorc community doesn't ask for that, they just cry and say they are underperforming, so i guess u have to do a thread on that topic! I'd support it, because even i am bored of sorc gameplay when facing them.

Since 1.6 sorcerers have pretty much only seen nerfs with every large patch and we are currently on patch 2.4.9.

As for what the sorcerer community is asking, you are wrong. We are not asking for buffs, but for a complete rework of the class as our kit currently accommodates no build flexibility, role flexibility or fun. Increasing our numbers won't fix the problem in either PvP or PvE, the class will remain boring to play even if they become the best in every role.

We have too many toggles, some of which you are forced into. Magika builds need to equip Bound Aegis, a really bad skill for a DD, just to get a lesser version of a Nightblade passive, do you have any idea how frustrating that is? And then you go to pets, likely the only skill in the game that is not affected by your champion points disposition, some of their active components are affected, but not the damage. Considering the pets are also toggles (and a Ultimate), that their damage does not benefit at all from any progression beyond level 50 is an insult and yet ZOS adds salt to the wound by making so pets are also not affected by several sorcerer passives. Meanwhile, we are the only class without a spammable ability and with only terrible options for healing skills, we have Dark Exchange with its ridiculous 1.5 seconds cast time, we have pets with near to no health and Surge, a flat heal that heals as much as a HoT tick, but that only triggers when you crit instead of every second. Oh, and of course our nerfed shields and our stacking price Streak.

And then everyone will shout Overload OP, but no one ever counts that Overload projectiles are slow, reflectable and dodgeable. No seems to consider that ultimate often bugs getting you stuck in Heavy Attack mode, a bug that has been with ability since Beta...

The class needs to be reworked. Every bit of personality and fun was drained out of sorcerers by several changes made to the game, from the removal of veteran levels for the champion points to the changes to how the game understands buffs and debuffs, not to mention the no number of nerfs.

Derra · July 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.

Yeah, they're so balanced that noone plays them anymore. Definition of balanced when noone plays the class, right? :P

shoes and apples... There are still many sorcs around but way too many magplars.
People tend to play the easiest classes and now sorc is not the easiest anymore.

Sorc was never as popular and predominant as DKs were pre 1.6 or NBs afterwards and Magplars are now - so what´s the point exactly?

i quoted someone, there is my point. 1.6 was Magsorc and NB time. That's what i talk about.
And No! There surely were as many sorcs as there are magplars now!

I´ve played 4+ hours of pvp daily in 1.6 from the day the patch hit up until IC went live. While i do not have numbers from back then I can assure you there were never as many sorcs as NBs back then and no there weren´t even as many sorcs as you can find magplars now.
Simply from how fast the kill class X quests finished - and that was not due to sorcs getting away. We played with two bombard stamblades with bowspeed. I can remember one sorc that we could not catch and that´s it.
Sorc quest always took the longest because there never were as many sorcs as people claim(ed) there were.

Mumyo wrote: »

That i understand but Sorc community doesn't ask for that, they just cry and say they are underperforming, so i guess u have to do a thread on that topic! I'd support it, because even i am bored of sorc gameplay when facing them.

Thats for one related to unintuitive/bad/enemy dependant gameplay can be mistaken for an underperforming class. If things go wrong and you´re not entirely sure why (and you´re doing better with other classes) it´s natural to blame the class.

In terms of pve those people are right. Sorcs can put up competetive magica DPS (all magica lacks behind stam atm) with a build that has two toggles for every bar. That build however is underperforming in terms of raidutility when compared to magplar/magblade or magDK and on top of that more magica cost intensive so missteps are punished harder than on those other classes.

Last but not least you have those players not playing a cookiecutter sorcbuild that was vaible last patch but for most of them they got obliterated in terms of vaibility with the DB changes. Those people claiming sorcs are underperforming also have a valid point.

Basically the only sorc player who is not right when saying a sorc is underperforming in some regard is someone using a resto/destro build with three shields, curse, fragments, wrath/x, shock, teleport, entropy/surge, mines/boundless in pvp. Oh wow - wait a second. You can narrow pvp sorcs down to one build with a whooping 3 skillchoices to make? Does seem like the class is in a great shape.

Imo the class IS underperforming for all but two builds (one of which is 100% gear dependant) in pvp.

jhharvest · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.

I think you might be right. Really good sorc players still wreck face on their sorcs. But I was one of those "unskilled" sorcs, just about average and I found playing in DB PVP to be not fun anymore. I could still fight 1v1 and do okay but the open world PVP experience is never that. Instead my experience was: I get stunned near the end of my 6s shield, the new poisons and penetration mechanics drain all my stam when I CC break, get hit by hit by 3 poison injections from stealth, I can refresh shield but can't bar swap, no stam to dodge roll anymore and then it's just a trip to dead town from there. It's either this, or I can stay behind a zerg nuking from the back - a lot of AP that way for sure but too boring for my taste.

So my question is, is a class balanced if only the very best players can make it work? I still have my mag temp that I used to play in 1.6 but that was just another flavour of the stay far and nuke, and TBH there's too many mag temps now anyway.

Minalan · July 2016

We're clearly underperforming, but I think it would only take a couple of small tweaks to fix, not a complete redesign.

NordSwordnBoard · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

We're clearly underperforming, but I think it would only take a couple of small tweaks to fix, not a complete redesign.

Yes, DD heal cast reduced by even half a second OR some passive re-works could be that tweak.

Foxic · July 2016

Magicka sorcs are perfectly balanced in pve with all of the other magicka classes. We can pull the exact same dps they can. And in pvp if you know what youre doing you can still easily perform.

Minalan · July 2016

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are perfectly balanced in pve with all of the other magicka classes. We can pull the exact same dps they can. And in pvp if you know what youre doing you can still easily perform.

I keep hearing that. The best players will perform the best with anything, even a naked Magicka DK. Sorc however is hostile to average players. It'd be nice if they gave us a few quality of life improvements to make the class easier to play for everyone, not the select few.

Bad and average sorc players all rolled Templar, and they're doing objectively better because of it. What does that say about sorc?

I'm doing 'good' with the new setup, but the investment of time and gear into this spec has been incredible. I dare say I could do better with an under geared Magicka Templar with less CP, fewer skill points, and no undaunted or Mage guild passives. Is that right or fair?

But hey, the dozen or so amazing sorcs are still killing everyone, so. It must be balanced. XD I guess all of the skilled nightblades and dragon Knights are terrible by comparison...

Spearblade · July 2016

TheHsN wrote: »

it is SORC for God Sick

- it is based on magic and that leads to it MAGICKA...
- so it should be the best of the MAGICKA CLASS...

BUT,

-as Skills , Magicka sustains , Magicka Pool and now as DPS Based on MAGIC it is the worst MAGICKA CLASS!!!
i cant stand the idea and THE FACT that STAMSORC is better than the ACTUAL MAGICKA BASED SORC... that is SAD... BUT TRUE ALSO

- And the other thing is that it is like bound to DestroStaff like it has no magic power:)...thats SAD ALSO even tho it can reach it is highest spell damage with Dual SWORDS that is another SAD..:)...

- LATELY no one is prefers to play or play togeter with MAGICKA SORC not in Dungeons not in Trials everybodys Says that it is DPS and Time LOST for a higher SCORES to achive...They are right tho Sorcs have No DPS no Support as SORCERER... even they need others to support it to achive it is avarage DPS:)...

- One other thing is that HOW IS THE LORE I CANT UNDERSTAND!!! A Tank and Heal Classes are making MORE DPS than the ACTUAL DPS Classes!!!

so pls noone says that magicka sorc is awesome NO!!! it is liker a kid who need supports everywhere in game to be able to make somethings...

Thank you...

No. Just...no.

Elara_Northwind · July 2016

I would like them to make sorcerer good again, purely so that all of these new templars that keep springing up all over the place go away! It used to be rare to find another templar and I kind of liked it like that, but it doesn't feel so special to be a templar anymore...

Probably about 75% of my friends are sorcerers too, and I would like them to be great again for their sakes

Foxic · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are perfectly balanced in pve with all of the other magicka classes. We can pull the exact same dps they can. And in pvp if you know what youre doing you can still easily perform.

I keep hearing that. The best players will perform the best with anything, even a naked Magicka DK. Sorc however is hostile to average players. It'd be nice if they gave us a few quality of life improvements to make the class easier to play for everyone, not the select few.

Bad and average sorc players all rolled Templar, and they're doing objectively better because of it. What does that say about sorc?

I'm doing 'good' with the new setup, but the investment of time and gear into this spec has been incredible. I dare say I could do better with an under geared Magicka Templar with less CP, fewer skill points, and no undaunted or Mage guild passives. Is that right or fair?

But hey, the dozen or so amazing sorcs are still killing everyone, so. It must be balanced. XD I guess all of the skilled nightblades and dragon Knights are terrible by comparison...

I hear where you're coming from. But since sorcs CAN compete with the other classes as is with the right player. They would be much stronger than the other magic specs with any sort of buff. I do agree that sorcerers are harder for the average player, but that doesn't mean much when it comes down to what the class can achieve

TheHsN · July 2016

@Wrobel

Mr. Wrobel... I just want to know that and as a long term player i think i have a right to...

Do you read these threads or feedbacks???

thank you.

WillhelmBlack · July 2016

It was a heavy nerf but I think it was a much needed nerf, it has definitely separated the men from the boys. No more shield stack and mine camp. Thinking back now, 15k Shields for 20 seconds was a bit much. Their burst damage is still great so they absolutely wreck most stamina builds. Magicka Templar needs to toned down a bit, bit too much for a Sorc to handle and DK are Sorcs counter class so they are fine but lack Dragon Blood which needs a buff.

Overall happy with Sorc. Gonna roll another one soon.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO · July 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

When will you make sorcs good again, ZoS? They've been murdered ever since the dark brotherhood came and went on a killing spree against them.

Sorcs are in Okay spot atm, Mag DKs need a buff

TheHsN · July 2016

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

When will you make sorcs good again, ZoS? They've been murdered ever since the dark brotherhood came and went on a killing spree against them.

Sorcs are in Okay spot atm, Mag DKs need a buff

cuz u play magDK???!!!

IxskullzxI · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Make magicka DK good again in PvP before sorcs get anything.

As long as Magicka DK can have permanent immunity against 95% of all ranged attacks, I rather don't see them buffed. They are super strong when played right.

And so is magicka sorc.

Minalan · July 2016

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Make magicka DK good again in PvP before sorcs get anything.

As long as Magicka DK can have permanent immunity against 95% of all ranged attacks, I rather don't see them buffed. They are super strong when played right.

And so is magicka sorc.

This is like the blind guy and the deaf guy getting into a fight as to who has it worse off.

Magicka DK has no healing, damage, or mobility.
Magicka sorc has no defense, a terrible heal with a long cast time that doesn't scale with anything, mobility with an increasing cost and a self root, and really bad passives.

TrueGreenSmoker · July 2016

Lot noone plays Sorc anymore why the hell am I still playing Sorc then??? *** THIS... Lol JK I like Sorc and I still see sorcs on PS4 NA and they hit hard too but I do see alot of NBs nowadays because of the OP incap... also I know some sorcs who changed to stam sorc

Dracane · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Magicka sorcs are perfectly balanced in pve with all of the other magicka classes. We can pull the exact same dps they can. And in pvp if you know what youre doing you can still easily perform.

I keep hearing that. The best players will perform the best with anything, even a naked Magicka DK. Sorc however is hostile to average players. It'd be nice if they gave us a few quality of life improvements to make the class easier to play for everyone, not the select few.

Bad and average sorc players all rolled Templar, and they're doing objectively better because of it. What does that say about sorc?

I'm doing 'good' with the new setup, but the investment of time and gear into this spec has been incredible. I dare say I could do better with an under geared Magicka Templar with less CP, fewer skill points, and no undaunted or Mage guild passives. Is that right or fair?

But hey, the dozen or so amazing sorcs are still killing everyone, so. It must be balanced. XD I guess all of the skilled nightblades and dragon Knights are terrible by comparison...

That's the point. Only the best players are still competive as Sorcs.
All the other Sorcs I see running around, are free AP. The easiest class to kill, predictable and no damage I would need to be afraid of. And now the shortened shields make it like a walk in the park killing any Sorc.

And when I speak about Sorcs, I mean Magicka Sorcerers.
Stamina Sorcs are no Sorcerers in my book

They are stormknights.