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Still no fixes for sorcs
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.4 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭This weekend i started to play mag sorc on PvP again. The first thing i had to change was my playstyle, i used to play a very aggresive magsorc with streak in frontbar and going into people faces with the stun, i wasn't able to do that anymore because my shields were expiring before i could catch and kill my target lol.
I switched for a more defensive style, standing in my mines and keeping a better control of the shields, and you are really hard to kill in 1v1.
1vX are 10x times harder now, not because of the shields duration (when you are going defensive is kinda irrelevant since you will be recasting them very oftem) but because everyone is hitting harder, 20k shields are getting wiped in an instant, plus the CC break mechanincs working like ***, i trend to die a lot more than before.
I think the change to shield duration is irrelevant for PvP, but since now everyone is hitting way more harder, your shields provide far less dmg mitigation than before. About the DPS, at least for PvP, sorcs still hit like a truck, if you run in group where you don't have to worry too much about your shields being zerged down, you can stay at range and output some serious damage. Also those negates bro, omg, a well placed negate can wipe an entire zerg.Edited by ManDraKE on July 11, 2016 5:24PM0 -
TheHsN✭✭✭✭✭
✭americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
yeah that is a great CLASS u love it it is powerfull BUT YOU DONT PLAY IT.... i believe you:)Plays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE0 -
Zaryc✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
First off, your L2P argument is awesome. It's so constructive, I wish I can argue like you one day.
But seriously now. By the rocket mobility do you mean the I don't know how often nerfed streak with stacking magicka cost? I will tell you a counter for it: gap closers. Not only they are slowing your target down while in charge, you can also use them more often because unlike streak's cost the cost for gapclosers are not stacking.
And I still try to figure out the OP DPS you mentioned. Sorcs can time their damage to have a nice burst damage but that doesn't make the damage output per second high. Our spammable is crushing shock, you can go and compare the damage of it with other spammables if you think we have "OP DPS". Oh and if you mean Overload (the most boring thing ever) it is an ultimate so you can't use it always. It does a lot of damage, yes, but it's easy to counter.
Oh and by the way Templars are the go to class for PvP atm and stam DK aren't in a bad state too. Maybe you should train to play against sorcs and learn how to counter them instead of whining on the forums. I could also call it "L2P", but that's below my level.0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.
Whenever i see a sorc i get excited. Some quick and easy AP.
They are far from balancedStrider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
if what you mean by skilled is: "standing in the back of a zerg and spamming mages wrath" then yeah sure. otherwise, no. I have yet to be killed in a legit 1v1 by a sorc. they under-perform by massive amounts compared to other classes even the really good sorcs, aren't much of a threat this patch.Edited by Lucky28 on July 11, 2016 6:46PMInvictus2 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
Lol learn to crunch numbers and listen to almost every magica sorc in the game. The only people saying mag sorcs are fine are Nb's.Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.
Whenever i see a sorc i get excited. Some quick and easy AP.
They are far from balancedStrider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
if what you mean by skilled is: "standing in the back of a zerg and spamming mages wrath" then yeah sure. otherwise, no. I have yet to be killed in a legit 1v1 by a sorc. they under-perform by massive amounts compared to other classes even the really good sorcs, aren't much of a threat this patch.
The issue is armor pen this patch, most people are running around with 10-15K or more with major breach, sharpened weapons, concentration, elemental drain, etc. That basically makes light armor about as good as running around naked. Even with Impen that's a quick death.
Most of us build around that with sustain and try to keep two shields up while using streak to reposition. It works, sometimes.0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.
Whenever i see a sorc i get excited. Some quick and easy AP.
They are far from balancedStrider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
if what you mean by skilled is: "standing in the back of a zerg and spamming mages wrath" then yeah sure. otherwise, no. I have yet to be killed in a legit 1v1 by a sorc. they under-perform by massive amounts compared to other classes even the really good sorcs, aren't much of a threat this patch.
The issue is armor pen this patch, most people are running around with 10-15K or more with major breach, sharpened weapons, concentration, elemental drain, etc. That basically makes light armor about as good as running around naked. Even with Impen that's a quick death.
Most of us build around that with sustain and try to keep two shields up while using streak to reposition. It works, sometimes.
I've only been running Hardened Ward since DB patch, there's already a lot to micromanage on a sorc and juggling two 6 sec shields (or 8 for empowered or w/e) is just not fun at all to me. I would rather die having fun than do better not having fun.Edited by WreckfulAbandon on July 11, 2016 7:31PMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP0 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭The issue is armor pen this patch, most people are running around with 10-15K or more with major breach, sharpened weapons, concentration, elemental drain, etc. That basically makes light armor about as good as running around naked. Even with Impen that's a quick death.
Thats right, but there Is more to it.
Its a mix of:
- Sharpened Weapons
- Major Breach
- Piercing CP
- Reduced Sorc Shield Duration + Strength
- Overall increased Ability Cost
- Sorc' Lack of a reliable Heal
- Greatly improved Damage on other Classes
--->
Sorc is forced too easily into expensive Shieldspamming which takes away the Chance to fight back At all.
What the Sorc actually needs, Is being freed from a Shield Stacking Gameplay. Because Thats all a Sorc can do, no variation, no Build diversity, nothing. Thats the reason for These many complaints.
The only thing a sorc Is good at isnt Even good anymore, Thanks to the buffs other classes received.
I think they Should Start working on:
- Useful Class Abilities (easily 50% + arent used)
- Blood Magic Passive must proc when using a Dark Magic Ability, not only when Enemy Is hit.
- Adding reliable Heals
OR
- Make current Heals reliable (Dark Exchange)
- Make Sorcerers excell at using Destro Staves
(allow for Elemental based Builds)
OR
- Options to efficiently use Stamina Weapons
(See Toggles for examples)
- Get rid of Toggles
OR
- Make Toggles worth the Slots used
Ideas:
--> Toggle slotted: Turn Stamina Weapon Damage into Elemental Damage And Stamina Cost to Magicka Cost. Elemental Damage depends on Enchantment -> Flame/Frost/Shock/Magic
--> Toggle Slotted(Bound Aegis): Stamina Abilities Cost 40% less
- Turn Shields into Mix of
--> Shield+Heal:
- weaker Shield but HoT; a "Magicka Vigor", also comes with Minor Vitality
--> Shield+Buff:
like empowered Ward currently but instead with a stronger Buff and much longer Lasting Duration:
- Major Mending(Self)
- Minor Protection(Self)
- Major Vitality(Self)
- Major Evasion(Self)
- Minor Evasion(Self)
- Minor Vitality(Group)
- Minor Protection(Group Buff, Players Must stay in Radius around Sorc)
- Major Fortify (Self; new Buff; grants 1500 Critical Strike Résistance for 20 Seconds)
- List goes on and on...
There Is SO MUCH this class could offer, but forcing everyone into shieldspam seems to be the easiest solution..Edited by Birdovic on July 11, 2016 8:46PMAttempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
Oversimplification much.
Every build using heals got improved way more than even the most talented magsorc. Build variety went down because of how unreliable weaponswitch (and with it shields on backbar) is.
Cookiecutter builds got a tiny improvement but that was coupled with quality of live going to crap. The class does not feel fluid to play anymore.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.
Whenever i see a sorc i get excited. Some quick and easy AP.
They are far from balancedStrider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
if what you mean by skilled is: "standing in the back of a zerg and spamming mages wrath" then yeah sure. otherwise, no. I have yet to be killed in a legit 1v1 by a sorc. they under-perform by massive amounts compared to other classes even the really good sorcs, aren't much of a threat this patch.
Lol you need to duel more. It's true on average sorcs are a ton easier now, but against really talented sorcs they're easily one of the toughest if not the toughest opponents to fight. This is a good time to be a sorc in my opinion.0 -
americansteel✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
LOL, you've been bitching about your templar and DK forever when they're among the best in the game, DK's are by far the best dps and tanks in the game atm while templars are the best healers, stop whining if you can't do well with that. Sorcs need a buff, it's not their fault if you're a baddie that can't use a gap closer.
what a terrible attempt at insulting me!
dps wise magic DK and Templar dont hold a chance to your god class. sorcs still hold no problem wrecking templars, l2p.
i never said i main a stamplar or stam DK. ignorance you show, i bet you send hate mail to those who kill you.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
POOR SERVER PERFORMANCE
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DONE0 -
americansteel✭✭✭✭
i play all 4 because i canamericansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
yeah that is a great CLASS u love it it is powerfull BUT YOU DONT PLAY IT.... i believe you:)
NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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americansteel✭✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
First off, your L2P argument is awesome. It's so constructive, I wish I can argue like you one day.
But seriously now. By the rocket mobility do you mean the I don't know how often nerfed streak with stacking magicka cost? I will tell you a counter for it: gap closers. Not only they are slowing your target down while in charge, you can also use them more often because unlike streak's cost the cost for gapclosers are not stacking.
And I still try to figure out the OP DPS you mentioned. Sorcs can time their damage to have a nice burst damage but that doesn't make the damage output per second high. Our spammable is crushing shock, you can go and compare the damage of it with other spammables if you think we have "OP DPS". Oh and if you mean Overload (the most boring thing ever) it is an ultimate so you can't use it always. It does a lot of damage, yes, but it's easy to counter.
Oh and by the way Templars are the go to class for PvP atm and stam DK aren't in a bad state too. Maybe you should train to play against sorcs and learn how to counter them instead of whining on the forums. I could also call it "L2P", but that's below my level.
another you must play a stamplar argument, you assume thats all i see here.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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americansteel✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
bad players here all i see.
still see many sorcs 1vXing still see them wiping players.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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DONE2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
bad players here all i see.
still see many sorcs 1vXing still see them wiping players.
I'm seriously thinking here that your Templar and DK have build issues preventing you from killing sorcs. It's really not that hard.
Do you need help, or are you just too angry to talk about it? Let's discuss your build and tactics here.
Edited by Minalan on July 11, 2016 10:42PM1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I didn't hop onto the band wagon and I do just fine. If you search my forum posts, I have a couple build videos posted in the PvP section.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Sorcs are finally balanced. I honestly think them, magica NB and magica Dk are where everything else should be.
Whenever i see a sorc i get excited. Some quick and easy AP.
They are far from balancedStrider_Roshin wrote: »You know what changed about magicka sorcs last update? The talented ones became stronger. The unskilled ones became trash.
if what you mean by skilled is: "standing in the back of a zerg and spamming mages wrath" then yeah sure. otherwise, no. I have yet to be killed in a legit 1v1 by a sorc. they under-perform by massive amounts compared to other classes even the really good sorcs, aren't much of a threat this patch.
Lol you need to duel more. It's true on average sorcs are a ton easier now, but against really talented sorcs they're easily one of the toughest if not the toughest opponents to fight. This is a good time to be a sorc in my opinion.
You have a choice in dueling as a sorc. To turret or not to turret. If your opponent is prepared to fight a sorc that tries to minecamp you´re proper fecked on the sorc part.
Hunt set + the reworked rearming trap do wonders for stamina builds.
A non turret sorc can be harder to fight but at the same time those builds (atleast the ones i know of) are the ones that did get significantly weakened by the DB patch.
That gets amplified by a sorcs inability to pressure good/prepared opponents. If you´re fighting a turrent sorc and are not prepared for mines - don´t fight. If you´re on atleast comparable skill level a sorc with a stationary build will lack the ability to kill you when you´re not doing him the favor of jumping in his purple deathtraps on the ground.
Either way dueling does in no way resemble open world pvp and for that sorc took a hit in solo play. Every magica build (apart from templars maybe) did. Magica cost increase poisons are not counterable as long as stamina cost increase does not affect dodge and blockcost.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
shoes and apples... There are still many sorcs around but way too many magplars.
People tend to play the easiest classes and now sorc is not the easiest anymore.0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina Sorcerers make the best DPS class in the game at the moment along with Stamina DKs.
Stamina Sorcerers are awesome at open world PvP.
A Stamina Sorcerer just won one of the biggest 1v1 dueling contests ever held on the EU Megaserver.
Magicka Sorcerers still has lots of burst and survival potential.
- I meet them daily. Some I run over and some run over me. As opposed to all of them running over me before DB.
Sorcerers weren't nerfed, the meta changed. This benefited Stamina Sorcerers hugely and Magicka Sorcerers not so much.
But Stamina Sorcerers needed a lift and Magicka Sorcerers needed to be toned down.
The people who know their class learned to adjust and are still wrecking face in both PvE and PvP and the rest will eventually reroll to whatever is FotM now and then QQ when that gets hit by balance patches.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
shoes and apples... There are still many sorcs around but way too many magplars.
People tend to play the easiest classes and now sorc is not the easiest anymore.
Sorc was never as popular and predominant as DKs were pre 1.6 or NBs afterwards and Magplars are now - so what´s the point exactly?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
Lol learn to crunch numbers and listen to almost every magica sorc in the game. The only people saying mag sorcs are fine are Nb's.
...and templars (purge)...and dk's(scales)....and stam sorcs(no comment).Edited by juhasman on July 12, 2016 8:39AM0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Actually stamina sorcerers are not saying magicka sorcerers are ok now for the most part. But that stamina sorcerers have actually become generally competitive.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭antihero727 wrote: »americansteel wrote: »L2P
your class has rocket mobility, stupid OP DPS, incredible defense which still brings ubalanced gameplay to pvp btw updates need to be split for pvp and pve. the sorc class has its cake and eats it too unlike my templar and DK.
shield duration was reduced so you assume the class is bad, yeah ok dude.
l2p adapt.
Lol learn to crunch numbers and listen to almost every magica sorc in the game. The only people saying mag sorcs are fine are Nb's.
...and templars (purge)...and dk's(scales)....and stam sorcs(no comment).
Well to be perfectly honest: While magica sorc players don´t say the class is fine - the ones of which i value the opionion highly also don´t say the class is broken.
The issue that i hear about the most in regards to sorcs is they´re simply not fun to play anymore but tedious and along with that somewhat unrewarding as they rely heavily on opponents making mistakes.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have a manasorc by myself (not my mainchar) and I have to admit, that the class isn't good right now. In 1vs1 nightblades are the only class I can kill right now (but they can easily burst me too once I do one mistake), dks and temps are kinda impossible to take down with purge or wings and the nerfs to Deto and Dawnbreaker. I don't know how it is possible to die to a sorc if you don't jump into his mines and attronach over and over again. And petsorc gets melted by templars because for some reason jabs deal massive amounts of dmg to pets.
Next problem is open world. Sorc has nothing that is strong in open world. Major Vitality pots are useless on sorc. Malubeth (the strongest 2 piece set by far) is useless on sorc. No skills that negate dmg based on the dmg you get like dodgeroll or shuffle, only a flat value shield. No good sustain skill (Dark Exchange is bashable). And no good burst ultimate. Overpowered sets for stambuilds and heavy armor builds (Viper, Black Rose, Fasalla, ...) but no light armor sets which can compete with them.
The only unique thing that sorc has right now are pets... yeah great, temps wreck pets completely and one pet needs one slot on dmg AND offbar. With the new Harness Magicka and the nerf to the duration of damage shields every class got a strong damage shield while shieldstacking got a huge nerf.
Also funny to see, how nearly every good sorc that I know agrees on this, only sorc haters or people who don't even play a manasorc pretend that the class is fine. From my point as a stamina nb sorcs are also the easiest class to kill right now. However, if someone finds a build that is strong on manasorc than feel free to enlighten me...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.5 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sorry to say it but in PvE, Sorcs are worthless in every role and in PvP you have to break your love affair with wards unless you are among the top tier players. They're too expensive, too short of a period of time up, and they're gone in one good swing. The more time you spend popping wards, the less damage you're doing, and the less mana you have.
Really the only way to make a magicka sorc work (in PvP, PvE they seem difficult to justify in competitive end game content) is find a new form of survivability (I chose heavy armor and heals for that personally) or use every tool available to the sorc to control the battlefield (Prison, Mines, Cage, maybe an ice staff) and use your high mobility to get around (streak, lightning form). With skill, practice, and proper use of the terrain, the Sorcs have the unrivaled ability to either control the field or punish you for pushing up the wrong direction (example, streaking away putting a minefield between you and the enemy, they charge, and two mines minimum blow up in their face, all of them if it's clever terrain, they're gonna feel it).
I have to say a Magicka Sorc is the most skill dependent build in the game right now. Unless you have a group of friends with you all running Overload all day. Then it's just fun XD"Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I have a manasorc by myself (not my mainchar) and I have to admit, that the class isn't good right now. In 1vs1 nightblades are the only class I can kill right now (but they can easily burst me too once I do one mistake), dks and temps are kinda impossible to take down with purge or wings and the nerfs to Deto and Dawnbreaker. I don't know how it is possible to die to a sorc if you don't jump into his mines and attronach over and over again. And petsorc gets melted by templars because for some reason jabs deal massive amounts of dmg to pets.
Next problem is open world. Sorc has nothing that is strong in open world. Major Vitality pots are useless on sorc. Malubeth (the strongest 2 piece set by far) is useless on sorc. No skills that negate dmg based on the dmg you get like dodgeroll or shuffle, only a flat value shield. No good sustain skill (Dark Exchange is bashable). And no good burst ultimate. Overpowered sets for stambuilds and heavy armor builds (Viper, Black Rose, Fasalla, ...) but no light armor sets which can compete with them.
The only unique thing that sorc has right now are pets... yeah great, temps wreck pets completely and one pet needs one slot on dmg AND offbar. With the new Harness Magicka and the nerf to the duration of damage shields every class got a strong damage shield while shieldstacking got a huge nerf.
Also funny to see, how nearly every good sorc that I know agrees on this, only sorc haters or people who don't even play a manasorc pretend that the class is fine. From my point as a stamina nb sorcs are also the easiest class to kill right now. However, if someone finds a build that is strong on manasorc than feel free to enlighten me...
You hit the nail on the head, sustain builds DO work though since you won't run out of mana recasting shields. Sorc needs to depend on other skills, like stacking healing ward with Hardened with rune cage, streak, and mines.
I've said it before, the skill floor for the class went way up. You really have to use an arsenal of skills to succeed, it's not like Templar where one or two buttons will save you.
I think sorc will do much better once they do something about the Malubeth bugs...0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭what they really need to do, is make passives from slotting a skill affect you even if it's on the back bar, same with toggles. You give sorc so many of these on slot, and toggle abilities that they have to put on both bars to use that it really limits them.1