Dungeons are laughably easy now.. Example video in OP

Lysette · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

What does it have to do with the discussion? You can be a great player with fulltimejob and family and you can be really "bad" while playing 24/7. So pls stop with it.

It has to do with it - if the majority does not have the time to ever be able to do content, because it is too hard and they do not have the time to get much better as well, than ZOS has failed their goal, to make content which keeps people playing. But if it is too hard, they won't even try and this content is basically not fulfilling it's purpose for ZOS. So they make it so, that most players see a chance to eventually be able to do the content - then they have a goal - but if it is obviously too hard (what it would be, if hardcore players deem it worthy), they will just not even attempt to do this content - and so the purpose of being a goal to achieve is lost. But if you guys say, it is too easy, then those will assume, ah, maybe I will have a chance to do it, if they say, it is too easy - and so it is good, that you say it is too easy - and does not need change.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Lysette
Yeah 30 hours+ a week + college education is a pretty normal thing and on top of that you act like 70/80 hour week is the norm that the majority of the casuals you know the 95% you talked about experience when clearly I can say it isn't. I also doubt you even work 70/80 like you seemingly boast to be when you have time day in and day out to come back to this post spreading off topic non-sense while assuming things in other people(s) lives aren't demanding and try to draw comparisons to a life that you supposedly live thinking that it represents the majority of the player base in this game when it most certainly doesn't.
I find it amusing as someone who supposedly does experiments in a lab to have time to post on forums what are you trying to say you are, Dexter?

Also again you are refusing to learn the game when you say you don't and would rather not waste time on it so yeah I'm not sure how you're trying to get the best of both worlds with your statement it's either one or the other not both.

Lysette · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Lysette
Yeah 30 hours+ a week + college education is a pretty normal thing and on top of that you act like 70/80 hour week is the norm that the majority of the casuals you know the 95% you talked about experience when clearly I can say it isn't. I also doubt you even work 70/80 like you seemingly boast to be when you have time day in and day out to come back to this post spreading off topic non-sense while assuming things in other people(s) lives aren't demanding and try to draw comparisons to a life that you supposedly live thinking that it represents the majority of the player base in this game when it most certainly doesn't.
I find it amusing as someone who supposedly does experiments in a lab to have time to post on forums what are you trying to say you are, Dexter?

Also again you are refusing to learn the game when you say you don't and would rather not waste time on it so yeah I'm not sure how you're trying to get the best of both worlds with your statement it's either one or the other not both.

No, I said 70-80 hrs/week for a self-employed person or a CEO - I did not say common Joe would work like this - but many do overtime and have easly 50-60hrs/week. And in a demanding job, which is a career, this is absolutely normal.

I do currently a series of test which involved the growth of bacteria before I can do the next step - those are a series which are scheduled to have to do something with one of sample about every 30 minutes - and meanwhile I have to evaluate the results and otherwise some spare time, which is not enough to play but to read and post on the forum. This is tedious work, but it has to be done by me, because our staff is in winter break (it's winter in south africa currently), but I want results nevertheless and so I have to do that myself.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Lysette
Then learn to section off your sentences because you went immediately into a example pretty much stating that you do 70/80 hours a week in a lab doing experiments but somehow have the time to post in this forum.

Lysette wrote: »

70-80hrs/week is normal for a self-employed person or a CEO - this is the time required to do the job, Take me for example, it is sunday today, I am in the laboratory doing some experiments, where there is time inbetween which I fill with other things, like posting here - but it is sunday, and I am working anyway. And this is normal, I would not have to do that, because I am the boss, but as such, I have to work more than most - even it does not look like it.

You stated self employed people work 70/80 hours a week then said take me for example and followed up that you yourself is a self employed person which means you can justify the claim that self employed people work 70/80 hours a week since you supposedly know they do for some reason.

Lysette · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Lysette
Then learn to section off your sentences because you went immediately into a example pretty much stating that you do 70/80 hours a week in a lab doing experiments but somehow have the time to post in this forum.

Lysette wrote: »

70-80hrs/week is normal for a self-employed person or a CEO - this is the time required to do the job, Take me for example, it is sunday today, I am in the laboratory doing some experiments, where there is time inbetween which I fill with other things, like posting here - but it is sunday, and I am working anyway. And this is normal, I would not have to do that, because I am the boss, but as such, I have to work more than most - even it does not look like it.

You stated self employed people work 70/80 hours a week then said take me for example and followed up that you yourself is a self employed person which means you can justify the claim that self employed people work 70/80 hours a week since you supposedly know they do for some reason.

It is the norm when you are self-employed - it is well known and common.

In german the word for self-employed is "selbständig" - and the saying goes, this is because you work "selbst" and "ständig" what means yourself and all the time. There is no such thing as vacations for example, a business trip with some spare moments on a beach is it maybe, but no real vacation. There are as well no free weekends, there is always something to do, even on weekends. This makes for that many hours on average per week.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Lysette
Ok sure it is, the way I look at it is if you're earning 0 dollars or not making any money from time A to time B then you are not working. You may be getting info from clients for 5 hours but that doesn't equate to any money earned within those 5 hours but rather what comes after is the money earned which is how long you actually work.

Now we can carry this discussion on all day but this is about a game so I'm stopping right here because it's absolutely mental at this point. Don't bring any examples unless it can speak for the 95% you spoke about earlier which no normally does not work 70/80 hours a week but instead works 30-40 hour weeks with over time sometimes. This is going based off in-game experiences with people who are dad,moms,students,etc.

Lysette · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Lysette
Ok sure it is, the way I look at it is if you're earning 0 dollars or not making any money from time A to time B then you are not working. You may be getting info from clients for 5 hours but that doesn't equate to any money earned within those 5 hours but rather what comes after is the money earned which is how long you actually work.

Now we can carry this discussion on all day but this is about a game so I'm stopping right here because it's absolutely mental at this point. Don't bring any examples unless it can speak for the 95% you spoke about earlier which no normally does not work 70/80 hours a week but instead works 30-40 hour weeks with over time sometimes. This is going based off in-game experiences with people who are dad,moms,students,etc.

A business person is not looking at pay per hour - but revenue per year - you have a wrong view on that.

I never said a normal person would work 70-80hrs/week, you are just turning the words around in my mouth, I said a self-employed person or a CEO work that much. And that includes as well things, which you might not deem work, but which are important - like being present on the golf course, because their might be your clients and you need to have good contact to them and so on - not all looks like work, but it is.

Is Matt Firor working when he is giving an interview - of course, this is part of his job, communication, public relations - it might not look like work but it's part of his job, this cannot be measured in pay per hour - and it is not, he has a salary and maybe other benefits instead.

Zerok · July 2016

Lack of time is not the main issue IMHO.

The main issue is stress. If you get too much stress at your job, you will seek more "relaxing" content. Those high-end dungeons are by no mean relaxing.

Players skip this content because they don't want the extra stress, and this is a perfectly valid reason.

ZOS sees this and tries to make the content easier, but it won't work because these dungeons would need a huge nerf to reach these players.

Therefore, I think it's better if they kept the current high-end dungeons the way they are, but focus on making future content more appealing for everyone.

Lysette · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Lack of time is not the main issue IMHO.

The main issue is stress. If you get too much stress at your job, you will seek more "relaxing" content. Those high-end dungeons are by no mean relaxing.

Players skip this content because they don't want the extra stress, and this is a perfectly valid reason.

ZOS sees this and tries to make the content easier, but it won't work because these dungeons would need a huge nerf to reach these players.

Therefore, I think it's better if they kept the current high-end dungeons the way they are, but focus on making future content more appealing for everyone.

Very good point, I mentioned it in other places, but I forgot to mention it here - but this is a very reasonable point.

The Uninvited · July 2016

Zerok wrote: »

Lack of time is not the main issue IMHO.

The main issue is stress. If you get too much stress at your job, you will seek more "relaxing" content. Those high-end dungeons are by no mean relaxing.

Players skip this content because they don't want the extra stress, and this is a perfectly valid reason.

ZOS sees this and tries to make the content easier, but it won't work because these dungeons would need a huge nerf to reach these players.

Therefore, I think it's better if they kept the current high-end dungeons the way they are, but focus on making future content more appealing for everyone.

Again, a lot of things work both ways. If you get to much boredom at your work, you'll want to challenge yourself when at home.

Apocalypse1981 · July 2016

Ok i just saw the video... That was a mess, you have no idea what good dps or easy means.
You prob didnt even complete the dungeon under 30 mins since it took you so long to kill last boss in easy mode.
Are you aching for atention?

Apocalypse1981 · July 2016

@Lysette i am 34 years old, married and witha daughter.
I am a Self employed Dr. In Law and i also own a pretty big business.
I have 2 free hours to play per day.
I deal 20k plus dps single target and i completed all vet dungeons under 30 mins and i find it easy.

What are you talking about?

English isnt my native language

razzle1184kicks · July 2016

Isn't dragon star being made harder??

Lysette · July 2016

Apocalypse1981 wrote: »

@Lysette i am 34 years old, married and witha daughter.
I am a Self employed Dr. In Law and i also own a pretty big business.
I have 2 free hours to play per day.
I deal 20k plus dps single target and i completed all vet dungeons under 30 mins and i find it easy.

What are you talking about?

English isnt my native language

Well, I am impressed then - but 60hrs/month is not really casual, statistical average is 5 sessions per week with 1.9 hours in average each - given that you play on a daily basis, you are about 50% beyond that margin. But maybe you are as well not playing every day and can still be considered casual - you will know that best. I think that you are nevertheless an exception or maybe just playing ESO and nothing else - I have about 40-50hrs/month in average, sometimes more, sometimes less, but I play a couple of games - so I could not do that like you do - it takes me ages to progress in the game, especially because I am an altoholic too with 12 characters - I care for other things than progress and play pretty slow paced and role play oriented.

It would be interesting to know though, what the percentage of players is, who have veteran characters. I won't have any of those by end of next year, this is pretty clear to me - I play all my 12 characters about equally often and do not rush it. I prefer hybrid builds, because I find them more interesting to play, so I have no problem with the difficulty - it is neither too easy nor too hard IMO.

ArchMikem · July 2016

I have the ability to play ESO on a daily basis and when i do, im in there for 3 - 6 hours at a time, every time. And yet im still "casual". Its definitely about how you play. The OP beleives things are getting made too easy, yet to a player such as myself who spends numerous hours in-game im still glorified trebuchet fodder. Just today i went into the Windhelm public dungeon solo, and even though the mobs were easy, when i got to the group event boss i wiped twice. Now granted if only i could sustain my resources a lot better id most likely haved gotten through my first time, but this is a game thats meant to emphasize a players option to play the way they want and enjoy the experience, not be forced into certain builds in order to gaurantee success.

When you dedicate to builds you know to be great, the game is easy. When you just want to play whatever comes to you, the game will then stay difficult cause then there will be parts that will kick your butt. This makes me beleive that, its not the game, but the player that ruins their own experience. When players focus on taking advantage of the meechanic as much as possible in order to succeed, it makes the content seem easy, the very thing they hate, so they demand an even more difficult challenge, even though it was difficult to begin with. This will only serve however to leave behind and alienate other players.

I dont want ESO to become a niche community of "teh pro" mmo gamers.

waterfairy · July 2016

I assume you're 501CP with the best gold set pieces...of course things will be laughably easy then, not so much for people who haven't hit the cap or have the best equipment. I don't find dungeons too easy with my 250 CP using purple mix matched gear in a PUG...it's actually challenging, especially when other random people are worse equipped then you or play poorly.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Apocalypse1981
I hope you're trolling me because if not I'm not sure how to respond without seeming like a arrogant individual. I'm a Stam DK and the DPS was pretty solid and even if it was on easy mode towards the end on the third pillar which would've meant using the safe spot anyone could've executed him at that phase.

We had 1 DPS (Me) the entire time decked out in PvP Impen gear and I can say I was pulling at-least 90% of the DPS while the others weren't facing a threat. We didn't do hard more because they were doing a random Dungeon when their DPS left and I joined in via group finder for the EXP reward which is showed at the end. I believe my DPS ranged from 40k-60k so I don't know what else to say. The beginning part they struggled since it was their first time completing it, how do I know you ask well during the ash titan they thanked me because they hadn't gotten that far before.

Zerok · July 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

Lack of time is not the main issue IMHO.

The main issue is stress. If you get too much stress at your job, you will seek more "relaxing" content. Those high-end dungeons are by no mean relaxing.

Players skip this content because they don't want the extra stress, and this is a perfectly valid reason.

ZOS sees this and tries to make the content easier, but it won't work because these dungeons would need a huge nerf to reach these players.

Therefore, I think it's better if they kept the current high-end dungeons the way they are, but focus on making future content more appealing for everyone.

Again, a lot of things work both ways. If you get to much boredom at your work, you'll want to challenge yourself when at home.

Well yes. If you can't get a sense of accomplishment in your life (and not necessarily your job), then it's possible you will try to get that in a game. In fact, I believe this is the definition of a hardcore gamer.

The problem is that hardcore gamers will always be in the minority. From a business perspective, it makes more sense to create content appealing to the larger casual base who play mostly for fun.

A company won't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or more on content that will be used by 5 to 10% of their player base.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Zerok
Runescape did just that in the sense they got more involved with Hardcore players and just as I said before when the hardcore players started coming back, more casuals came along. The hardcore players then made channels dedicated to the game and showed it off while playing which drew in more casuals who wanted to play the game.

Companies who invest in their hardcore players see more turn out while retaining those same players who stick to the game. If we wanna get into business I'd say hardcore players are more willing to shell out extra cash via micro transaction or ESO+ I won't go in depth with velocity of cash and how that could also be a reason why more hardcore players are willing to pay for more stuff but yeah. Since that'll take a bit and after just getting off work Imma play me some games before I sleep

!

Mojmir · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

Name one good reason why they recently nerfed 2 dungeons other than the fact that not many people were completing them. They release content that is hard and after it has been out for awhile it is nerfed so more people can complete it.

Honestly, I can't think of one.

If they based nerfing of content purely on completion statistics, it's not a good way without knowing the reasons behind non-completed runs.

For instance, in some dungeons you have groups farming the first boss for gear over and over. They go in, kill the first boss, get the loot and go back out to reset the dungeon.

Does this count as a non-completed run in statistics? Yes. Does this mean they couldn't complete it if they ran the whole dungeon? No.

What if the player base consisted more of roleplayers than people who like the boss fights in a dungeon? Not a lot of dungeons would be run. Does that mean they should nerf them all? No, because the roleplayers still wouldn't run them simply because it isn't interesting to them.

A better way would have been to ask the community if they wanted those dungeons nerfed and combine that with the statistics.

And how would they want to do that?- Asking 7 million players per email and count the votes - this would be quite costly to do and more like a survey, which would most likely involve to use external survey services, because the team from ZOS can hardly work through millions of emails - to just ask the forum crowd would be quite biased.

Achievements would be a better judge,hopefully it's not based solely on group finder.

Apocalypse1981 · July 2016

@Lysette yes, i only play eso. No time for other games.

Saturn · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

They are easier than WGT/ICP on IC-PTS (maybe on par with them on live atm), so don't call them difficult.

That's your claim, I've yet to see how easy/difficult they are but I'll kinda take your word for it.

Cradle is harder than WGT and ICP in my opinion, but the trash mobs are vastly easier. Mazzatun is about on par with WGT and a bit easier than ICP, its trash mobs are about the same as ICP in terms of strength, though no dps check boss adds.