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Lets Balance Radiant Destruction
-
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No bluffs. I settled on a range nerf since proposing it ages ago and have been 100% consistent since.
I still think the damage is absurd, though, and I'm not the only one. A range nerf would just be the simplest change, introducing counterplay without requiring compensatory buffs.
If you are okay with a slight range nerf, then no need to say anything else. Just say that. And begone you foul beast!5 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭
You should edit your post and get rid of the last part. You just sound dumb
I mainly do PvE, believe me, this doesn't impact PvE at allDocFrost72 wrote: »
Lets not turn this into a PvE rotation, but no you don't reapply shards or entropy, you should be using potions. You reapply vampires bane and wall of elements, proc the spell damage enchantment on your swords. If you're not doing that then you're not doing it right.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Radiant channel time is 2.9 seconds, having a cooldown will largely reduce how much damage you are taking by it at one time, unless there are Templars in group specifically timing their beams at the same time. Think about it more logically.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Where have I said nerf the damage? I haven't said that once. I said in it's current form how it is behaving, it is clearly over powered, and knowing ZOS, they don't know how to handle things and will give it a damage nerf if the community doesn't agree upon something soon.DocFrost72 wrote: »*Sigh* So I see we went from "let's fix toxic behavior" back to "Nerf RD, it's too powerful".
There's really no having a discussion with you, is there OP? If I recall correctly, you even said you weren't calling for a nerf to the skill and you recognized it's shortcomings, which made it fair play.
But hey, keep farming those easy likes.
Giving it a damage nerf I believe will make the class have less damage than it already does. I'm suggesting a cooldown to reduce the amount of beams on a target at once to give them some breathing room and some time to actually counter it. With doing this I think it is the best way to deal with it, I do like the idea of reduced range too, will stop people from sitting in the back doing nothing but beams.
A cool down will do nothing to stop multiple beams, which is your problem. It will stop beam spam from one person...barely. not to mention ZOS has clearly said they do not want cooldowns, and we can see this by the fact that 90% of in game abilities are instantly cast.
And a cool down will ruin PvE DPS, which you claim you don't want to do.
So no, I don't think you are tackling this situation in a way that fixes something you see as wrong.
You shouldn't really be spamming radiant in PvE in any scenario, you should be keeping your DoTs up and weaving in between, so it wont hurt PvE at all
I'm not reapplying sun fire, entropy, shards etc every 3 seconds, and FENGRUSH is right (oh gods I said it), Cooldowns are not ZOS's MO. And if multiple beamers are hitting you, easy solution. L.O.S.
You know, the way you normally deal with range when already fighting.
I do like this idea tooZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I just think it's hilarious that people are coming in here defending how it works currently like nothing is bad about it, why not also offer solutions to balance it without not having to reduce the damage it does as a whole.
I also like this idea.ZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I think more people need to actually come up with solutions on balancing it out without having to nerf it's damage as a whole
I was more making a point that you have a 6 or 8 or even 12 second cooldown on dots, I don't do templar MDPS. And you made this a PvE discussion by asking for a change to a move. Unless whatever change you apply is only in the battle spirit buff, every change will impact PvE.
And I like Fengrush's idea as well, but if you get 3 beams latched onto you, you're still going to take 3 beams worth of damage all at once, and if you dipped into execute range when any of them was destined to tick, it is still game over.
That said, if you're interested in balancing the move, consider the wide scale applications of a change to any ability in all aspects of the game. I don't dislike you and I don't want you to feel this is personal, but I am defending a move I have literally zero issues with because I learned how to deal with it with my particular build.
But no, this is mainly about PvP counters to the skill etc, its largely over performing in there at the moment, and what not. I also like Feng's idea.
Feng's as no idea of a magplar!
Don't agree with his post about templar because he doesn't have a character that's a magplar. If you want to agree with some one post then be certain that player as a magplar character in PvP.( that as earned the title captain, at least)
Edit:
No offence!
If your a PvE player then stay out of PvP, and dont make threads about nerfs to a class(in PvP) that you have no idea off.
At this point I'm pretty sure almost everyone plays every part of the game
I have a pvp healer from a dominating red group as a main healer
I have a legate and a general in my guild too, and #1 in the trials on NA. That comment just lol people still have that mind set?
What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased).
Note: I don't have any hatred towards fengrush and sypher, but to me I think they are very biased regarding templar solution.
Edit:So,don't listen to those that have not spend time and money with that class. I give credit to fengrush for playing a StamsOrc( worst class).No offence,but I hope you understand!!
Also,I am not well, right now!!Edited by Van_0S on July 11, 2016 5:09AM1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
They've been playing since beta, I trust their opinion on most things as they try to balance the game out. Also blab was the one who suggested the breath of life nerf (LoS).
You should edit your post and get rid of the last part. You just sound dumb
I mainly do PvE, believe me, this doesn't impact PvE at allDocFrost72 wrote: »
Lets not turn this into a PvE rotation, but no you don't reapply shards or entropy, you should be using potions. You reapply vampires bane and wall of elements, proc the spell damage enchantment on your swords. If you're not doing that then you're not doing it right.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Radiant channel time is 2.9 seconds, having a cooldown will largely reduce how much damage you are taking by it at one time, unless there are Templars in group specifically timing their beams at the same time. Think about it more logically.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Where have I said nerf the damage? I haven't said that once. I said in it's current form how it is behaving, it is clearly over powered, and knowing ZOS, they don't know how to handle things and will give it a damage nerf if the community doesn't agree upon something soon.DocFrost72 wrote: »*Sigh* So I see we went from "let's fix toxic behavior" back to "Nerf RD, it's too powerful".
There's really no having a discussion with you, is there OP? If I recall correctly, you even said you weren't calling for a nerf to the skill and you recognized it's shortcomings, which made it fair play.
But hey, keep farming those easy likes.
Giving it a damage nerf I believe will make the class have less damage than it already does. I'm suggesting a cooldown to reduce the amount of beams on a target at once to give them some breathing room and some time to actually counter it. With doing this I think it is the best way to deal with it, I do like the idea of reduced range too, will stop people from sitting in the back doing nothing but beams.
A cool down will do nothing to stop multiple beams, which is your problem. It will stop beam spam from one person...barely. not to mention ZOS has clearly said they do not want cooldowns, and we can see this by the fact that 90% of in game abilities are instantly cast.
And a cool down will ruin PvE DPS, which you claim you don't want to do.
So no, I don't think you are tackling this situation in a way that fixes something you see as wrong.
You shouldn't really be spamming radiant in PvE in any scenario, you should be keeping your DoTs up and weaving in between, so it wont hurt PvE at all
I'm not reapplying sun fire, entropy, shards etc every 3 seconds, and FENGRUSH is right (oh gods I said it), Cooldowns are not ZOS's MO. And if multiple beamers are hitting you, easy solution. L.O.S.
You know, the way you normally deal with range when already fighting.
I do like this idea tooZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I just think it's hilarious that people are coming in here defending how it works currently like nothing is bad about it, why not also offer solutions to balance it without not having to reduce the damage it does as a whole.
I also like this idea.ZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I think more people need to actually come up with solutions on balancing it out without having to nerf it's damage as a whole
I was more making a point that you have a 6 or 8 or even 12 second cooldown on dots, I don't do templar MDPS. And you made this a PvE discussion by asking for a change to a move. Unless whatever change you apply is only in the battle spirit buff, every change will impact PvE.
And I like Fengrush's idea as well, but if you get 3 beams latched onto you, you're still going to take 3 beams worth of damage all at once, and if you dipped into execute range when any of them was destined to tick, it is still game over.
That said, if you're interested in balancing the move, consider the wide scale applications of a change to any ability in all aspects of the game. I don't dislike you and I don't want you to feel this is personal, but I am defending a move I have literally zero issues with because I learned how to deal with it with my particular build.
But no, this is mainly about PvP counters to the skill etc, its largely over performing in there at the moment, and what not. I also like Feng's idea.
Feng's as no idea of a magplar!
Don't agree with his post about templar because he doesn't have a character that's a magplar. If you want to agree with some one post then be certain that player as a magplar character in PvP.( that as earned the title captain, at least)
Edit:
No offence!
If your a PvE player then stay out of PvP, and dont make threads about nerfs to a class(in PvP) that you have no idea off.
At this point I'm pretty sure almost everyone plays every part of the game
I have a pvp healer from a dominating red group as a main healer
I have a legate and a general in my guild too, and #1 in the trials on NA. That comment just lol people still have that mind set?
What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased)
Note: I don't have any hatred towards fengrush and sypher, but to me I think that their very biased regarding templar solution.
Playing in group or watching their stream you start to see how much they actually notice in Cyrodill and how to counter it. I'd stop with the attitude "streamers try to ruin everything" or that they only complain, cause in the end they are just trying to balance the game out and help it in the long run. Sure there are some times where it's biased but that's human nature.
#MOREORBS2 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You should edit your post and get rid of the last part. You just sound dumb
I mainly do PvE, believe me, this doesn't impact PvE at allDocFrost72 wrote: »
Lets not turn this into a PvE rotation, but no you don't reapply shards or entropy, you should be using potions. You reapply vampires bane and wall of elements, proc the spell damage enchantment on your swords. If you're not doing that then you're not doing it right.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Radiant channel time is 2.9 seconds, having a cooldown will largely reduce how much damage you are taking by it at one time, unless there are Templars in group specifically timing their beams at the same time. Think about it more logically.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Where have I said nerf the damage? I haven't said that once. I said in it's current form how it is behaving, it is clearly over powered, and knowing ZOS, they don't know how to handle things and will give it a damage nerf if the community doesn't agree upon something soon.DocFrost72 wrote: »*Sigh* So I see we went from "let's fix toxic behavior" back to "Nerf RD, it's too powerful".
There's really no having a discussion with you, is there OP? If I recall correctly, you even said you weren't calling for a nerf to the skill and you recognized it's shortcomings, which made it fair play.
But hey, keep farming those easy likes.
Giving it a damage nerf I believe will make the class have less damage than it already does. I'm suggesting a cooldown to reduce the amount of beams on a target at once to give them some breathing room and some time to actually counter it. With doing this I think it is the best way to deal with it, I do like the idea of reduced range too, will stop people from sitting in the back doing nothing but beams.
A cool down will do nothing to stop multiple beams, which is your problem. It will stop beam spam from one person...barely. not to mention ZOS has clearly said they do not want cooldowns, and we can see this by the fact that 90% of in game abilities are instantly cast.
And a cool down will ruin PvE DPS, which you claim you don't want to do.
So no, I don't think you are tackling this situation in a way that fixes something you see as wrong.
You shouldn't really be spamming radiant in PvE in any scenario, you should be keeping your DoTs up and weaving in between, so it wont hurt PvE at all
I'm not reapplying sun fire, entropy, shards etc every 3 seconds, and FENGRUSH is right (oh gods I said it), Cooldowns are not ZOS's MO. And if multiple beamers are hitting you, easy solution. L.O.S.
You know, the way you normally deal with range when already fighting.
I do like this idea tooZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I just think it's hilarious that people are coming in here defending how it works currently like nothing is bad about it, why not also offer solutions to balance it without not having to reduce the damage it does as a whole.
I also like this idea.ZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I think more people need to actually come up with solutions on balancing it out without having to nerf it's damage as a whole
I was more making a point that you have a 6 or 8 or even 12 second cooldown on dots, I don't do templar MDPS. And you made this a PvE discussion by asking for a change to a move. Unless whatever change you apply is only in the battle spirit buff, every change will impact PvE.
And I like Fengrush's idea as well, but if you get 3 beams latched onto you, you're still going to take 3 beams worth of damage all at once, and if you dipped into execute range when any of them was destined to tick, it is still game over.
That said, if you're interested in balancing the move, consider the wide scale applications of a change to any ability in all aspects of the game. I don't dislike you and I don't want you to feel this is personal, but I am defending a move I have literally zero issues with because I learned how to deal with it with my particular build.
But no, this is mainly about PvP counters to the skill etc, its largely over performing in there at the moment, and what not. I also like Feng's idea.
Feng's as no idea of a magplar!
Don't agree with his post about templar because he doesn't have a character that's a magplar. If you want to agree with some one post then be certain that player as a magplar character in PvP.( that as earned the title captain, at least)
Edit:
No offence!
If your a PvE player then stay out of PvP, and dont make threads about nerfs to a class(in PvP) that you have no idea off.
At this point I'm pretty sure almost everyone plays every part of the game
I have a pvp healer from a dominating red group as a main healer
I have a legate and a general in my guild too, and #1 in the trials on NA. That comment just lol people still have that mind set?
What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased)
Note: I don't have any hatred towards fengrush and sypher, but to me I think they are very biased regarding templar solution.
WHAT!? It's not useless at all -_-
I run 2k regen in PvP on my Templar and can sustain enough to use BoL.
I run 1700 regen on my PvE healer and can sustain enough to use BoL efficiently in trials such as vMoL. I don't understand how it's useless at all
Edited by DisgracefulMind on July 11, 2016 4:59AMUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »
You should edit your post and get rid of the last part. You just sound dumb
I mainly do PvE, believe me, this doesn't impact PvE at allDocFrost72 wrote: »
Lets not turn this into a PvE rotation, but no you don't reapply shards or entropy, you should be using potions. You reapply vampires bane and wall of elements, proc the spell damage enchantment on your swords. If you're not doing that then you're not doing it right.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Radiant channel time is 2.9 seconds, having a cooldown will largely reduce how much damage you are taking by it at one time, unless there are Templars in group specifically timing their beams at the same time. Think about it more logically.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Where have I said nerf the damage? I haven't said that once. I said in it's current form how it is behaving, it is clearly over powered, and knowing ZOS, they don't know how to handle things and will give it a damage nerf if the community doesn't agree upon something soon.DocFrost72 wrote: »*Sigh* So I see we went from "let's fix toxic behavior" back to "Nerf RD, it's too powerful".
There's really no having a discussion with you, is there OP? If I recall correctly, you even said you weren't calling for a nerf to the skill and you recognized it's shortcomings, which made it fair play.
But hey, keep farming those easy likes.
Giving it a damage nerf I believe will make the class have less damage than it already does. I'm suggesting a cooldown to reduce the amount of beams on a target at once to give them some breathing room and some time to actually counter it. With doing this I think it is the best way to deal with it, I do like the idea of reduced range too, will stop people from sitting in the back doing nothing but beams.
A cool down will do nothing to stop multiple beams, which is your problem. It will stop beam spam from one person...barely. not to mention ZOS has clearly said they do not want cooldowns, and we can see this by the fact that 90% of in game abilities are instantly cast.
And a cool down will ruin PvE DPS, which you claim you don't want to do.
So no, I don't think you are tackling this situation in a way that fixes something you see as wrong.
You shouldn't really be spamming radiant in PvE in any scenario, you should be keeping your DoTs up and weaving in between, so it wont hurt PvE at all
I'm not reapplying sun fire, entropy, shards etc every 3 seconds, and FENGRUSH is right (oh gods I said it), Cooldowns are not ZOS's MO. And if multiple beamers are hitting you, easy solution. L.O.S.
You know, the way you normally deal with range when already fighting.
I do like this idea tooZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I just think it's hilarious that people are coming in here defending how it works currently like nothing is bad about it, why not also offer solutions to balance it without not having to reduce the damage it does as a whole.
I also like this idea.ZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I think more people need to actually come up with solutions on balancing it out without having to nerf it's damage as a whole
I was more making a point that you have a 6 or 8 or even 12 second cooldown on dots, I don't do templar MDPS. And you made this a PvE discussion by asking for a change to a move. Unless whatever change you apply is only in the battle spirit buff, every change will impact PvE.
And I like Fengrush's idea as well, but if you get 3 beams latched onto you, you're still going to take 3 beams worth of damage all at once, and if you dipped into execute range when any of them was destined to tick, it is still game over.
That said, if you're interested in balancing the move, consider the wide scale applications of a change to any ability in all aspects of the game. I don't dislike you and I don't want you to feel this is personal, but I am defending a move I have literally zero issues with because I learned how to deal with it with my particular build.
But no, this is mainly about PvP counters to the skill etc, its largely over performing in there at the moment, and what not. I also like Feng's idea.
Feng's as no idea of a magplar!
Don't agree with his post about templar because he doesn't have a character that's a magplar. If you want to agree with some one post then be certain that player as a magplar character in PvP.( that as earned the title captain, at least)
Edit:
No offence!
If your a PvE player then stay out of PvP, and dont make threads about nerfs to a class(in PvP) that you have no idea off.
At this point I'm pretty sure almost everyone plays every part of the game
I have a pvp healer from a dominating red group as a main healer
I have a legate and a general in my guild too, and #1 in the trials on NA. That comment just lol people still have that mind set?
What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased)
Note: I don't have any hatred towards fengrush and sypher, but to me I think they are very biased regarding templar solution.
WHAT!? It's not useless at all -_-
I run 2k regen in PvP on my Templar and can sustain enough to use BoL.
I run 1700 regen on my PvE healer and can sustain enough to use BoL efficiently in trials such as vMoL. I don't understand how it's useless at all
BoL is very expensive compared to honor of the dead( gives back magicka) and healing springs( again, gives back magicka)
Edit: Its good to know BoL is useful for you!
Edited by Van_0S on July 11, 2016 5:27AM0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No bluffs. I settled on a range nerf since proposing it ages ago and have been 100% consistent since.
I still think the damage is absurd, though, and I'm not the only one. A range nerf would just be the simplest change, introducing counterplay without requiring compensatory buffs.
You've talked about nerfing both the damage and the execute % threshold. I just quoted you FFS. You may have settled on nerfing the range now, but this is the exact point I made earlier. Many of your crowd have vehemently argued one aspect needs to be nerfed, and then change to picking something else. If that aspect was truly broken in your eyes, then there should be consistency.
I've argued against you and others over why damage nerfs (as you've called for them) are unnecessary, and I've argued with others over why making it dodgeable again is a terrible idea. These same people now say "the only thing it ever needed was a range nerf." Maybe don't act so surprised when we have a hard time taking you seriously and giving weight to your points, who knows if you'll still be arguing them in a few weeks?
Ah, about time you gave up on arguing for the skill's balance. Finally we can put this debate to rest.
I proposed the range nerf ages ago and have not supported another type of nerf in lieu of it since. However, if a better idea comes up, I'll support it too. And why shouldn't I? That's how the problem solving process works -- you identify the problem, propose and discuss solutions, and decide on the best fix to make. People are expected to change their minds as the process unfolds and new ideas come into the mix. Notice that a few replies back, I said whoever had changed their mind would probably be justified.
That's how a healthy problem solving process works. Consider yourself educated.
----Summary of thread----
Problem:
- RD is op in pvp
- RD is a long range channeled high dps ability which executes beginning at 50% health and cannot be dodged.
- Counterplay sometimes absent when using the ability at long range or from behind a group
- Promotes low risk one-ability play while heavily punishing opponents who do not run Cloak or Purify or Purge
- RD is balanced in pve dps
- Needs nerfs in pvp to achieve appropriate risk for reward without changing pve dps.
Suggested nerfs:
- Reduce damage per tick
- Lower execute threshold
- Eliminate initial tick, lower damage early in the channel, increase damage as channel progresses for equivalent overall dps
- Reduce cast range
Analyses of suggested nerfs:
Lowering damage per tick or execute threshold will alter pve dps, requiring compensatory buffs. These are perfectly viable options for pvp balance, albeit more complicated ones.
Redistributing the damage to later in the channel will make the ability behave more like an actual channel -- it's basically an instant cast burst with a channel following right now -- but at the cost of usability as a true execute (there'd be a pause between cast and damage). Also, Templars who hold the beam on enemies at high health as they take damage from others would remain problematic, if not moreso with the stronger later ticks.
Reducing the cast range forces the Templar to expose itself to consistent risk when beaming. Basically, Templars would have to reserve beam for execute range, prepare with a good cc, or risk being interrupted since they'd be closer to their enemy. This holds true to the original design of the ability, giving the channel uniform risk for its already high reward while not changing the damage profile of the ability.
Opinions on whether the skill needs a nerf, which nerf is best, or if an entirely different nerf is better, will differ. I have tried to remain objective in the above summary.
Casting my objectivity aside, hopefully with your thread, @Nifty2g , this subject will finally subside on the forums as we await hopeful action from ZOS. Thanks for lending us your rational analysis and valuable support.
Unless an entirely new suggestion for the nerf is proposed, all debate beyond this point is repetitive at best. Glad to have this conversation finally come to a close. Cheers.
/thread
Inb4 forumplarsplosion2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online5 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
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They've been playing since beta, I trust their opinion on most things as they try to balance the game out. Also blab was the one who suggested the breath of life nerf (LoS).
You should edit your post and get rid of the last part. You just sound dumb
I mainly do PvE, believe me, this doesn't impact PvE at allDocFrost72 wrote: »
Lets not turn this into a PvE rotation, but no you don't reapply shards or entropy, you should be using potions. You reapply vampires bane and wall of elements, proc the spell damage enchantment on your swords. If you're not doing that then you're not doing it right.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Radiant channel time is 2.9 seconds, having a cooldown will largely reduce how much damage you are taking by it at one time, unless there are Templars in group specifically timing their beams at the same time. Think about it more logically.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Where have I said nerf the damage? I haven't said that once. I said in it's current form how it is behaving, it is clearly over powered, and knowing ZOS, they don't know how to handle things and will give it a damage nerf if the community doesn't agree upon something soon.DocFrost72 wrote: »*Sigh* So I see we went from "let's fix toxic behavior" back to "Nerf RD, it's too powerful".
There's really no having a discussion with you, is there OP? If I recall correctly, you even said you weren't calling for a nerf to the skill and you recognized it's shortcomings, which made it fair play.
But hey, keep farming those easy likes.
Giving it a damage nerf I believe will make the class have less damage than it already does. I'm suggesting a cooldown to reduce the amount of beams on a target at once to give them some breathing room and some time to actually counter it. With doing this I think it is the best way to deal with it, I do like the idea of reduced range too, will stop people from sitting in the back doing nothing but beams.
A cool down will do nothing to stop multiple beams, which is your problem. It will stop beam spam from one person...barely. not to mention ZOS has clearly said they do not want cooldowns, and we can see this by the fact that 90% of in game abilities are instantly cast.
And a cool down will ruin PvE DPS, which you claim you don't want to do.
So no, I don't think you are tackling this situation in a way that fixes something you see as wrong.
You shouldn't really be spamming radiant in PvE in any scenario, you should be keeping your DoTs up and weaving in between, so it wont hurt PvE at all
I'm not reapplying sun fire, entropy, shards etc every 3 seconds, and FENGRUSH is right (oh gods I said it), Cooldowns are not ZOS's MO. And if multiple beamers are hitting you, easy solution. L.O.S.
You know, the way you normally deal with range when already fighting.
I do like this idea tooZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I just think it's hilarious that people are coming in here defending how it works currently like nothing is bad about it, why not also offer solutions to balance it without not having to reduce the damage it does as a whole.
I also like this idea.ZOS will never implement cooldowns on skills. Best you can hope for in that respect is penalty on recast, which does nothing here.
Take away initial insta tick - scale damage on backend as beam holds to equalize the total DPS (doesnt impact PVE). Lets do it wrobel.
I think more people need to actually come up with solutions on balancing it out without having to nerf it's damage as a whole
I was more making a point that you have a 6 or 8 or even 12 second cooldown on dots, I don't do templar MDPS. And you made this a PvE discussion by asking for a change to a move. Unless whatever change you apply is only in the battle spirit buff, every change will impact PvE.
And I like Fengrush's idea as well, but if you get 3 beams latched onto you, you're still going to take 3 beams worth of damage all at once, and if you dipped into execute range when any of them was destined to tick, it is still game over.
That said, if you're interested in balancing the move, consider the wide scale applications of a change to any ability in all aspects of the game. I don't dislike you and I don't want you to feel this is personal, but I am defending a move I have literally zero issues with because I learned how to deal with it with my particular build.
But no, this is mainly about PvP counters to the skill etc, its largely over performing in there at the moment, and what not. I also like Feng's idea.
Feng's as no idea of a magplar!
Don't agree with his post about templar because he doesn't have a character that's a magplar. If you want to agree with some one post then be certain that player as a magplar character in PvP.( that as earned the title captain, at least)
Edit:
No offence!
If your a PvE player then stay out of PvP, and dont make threads about nerfs to a class(in PvP) that you have no idea off.
At this point I'm pretty sure almost everyone plays every part of the game
I have a pvp healer from a dominating red group as a main healer
I have a legate and a general in my guild too, and #1 in the trials on NA. That comment just lol people still have that mind set?
What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased)
Note: I don't have any hatred towards fengrush and sypher, but to me I think that their very biased regarding templar solution.
Playing in group or watching their stream you start to see how much they actually notice in Cyrodill and how to counter it. I'd stop with the attitude "streamers try to ruin everything" or that they only complain, cause in the end they are just trying to balance the game out and help it in the long run. Sure there are some times where it's biased but that's human nature.
Agreeing with you here.
Also keep in mind that the term "streamers" is sometimes misleading. I do not trust all streamers.
I for one trust Sypher and Fengrush's balance commentary to be objective and to contain some good ideas because they have shown themselves to be objective, thoughtful, intelligent, experienced, and rational individuals who care about balancing the game. I do not trust streamers such as Krotha, though, for balance commentary because he, for example, has shown himself to be the opposite.
Some streamers are great for constructive commentary.
Some actually do just complain and cause drama.
I'm being picky here, but the stigma does have some truth to it even if it's unjustly aimed at Feng and Siffer more often than not.Edited by KenaPKK on July 11, 2016 5:44AM1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Edited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 5:53AM#MOREORBS1 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont think you were here when RD was originally implemented into the game...
Kinda wish they brought back flashes tho...~Thallen~1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I got emperor before the first RD nerfbosmern_ESO wrote: »I dont think you were here when RD was originally implemented into the game...
Kinda wish they brought back flashes tho...
@Cinnamon_Spider that was fun timesEdited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 5:57AM#MOREORBS0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I got emperor before the first RD nerfbosmern_ESO wrote: »I dont think you were here when RD was originally implemented into the game...
Kinda wish they brought back flashes tho...
@Cinnamon_Spider that was fun times
When it first came out I was rank #1, 100% by solo play. All it took was darkflare-RD and pretty much everyone was dead.~Thallen~0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
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I wonder if I have any recordings from around that time. You were so annoying
I got emperor before the first RD nerfbosmern_ESO wrote: »I dont think you were here when RD was originally implemented into the game...
Kinda wish they brought back flashes tho...
@Cinnamon_Spider that was fun times
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
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BoL useless? What? I don't know what you're doing wrong that you find this skill to be useless.What I am trying to say is, don't listen to streamers! Blab,yes but fengrush and sypher, no.
Why?
Because, they are the ones that asked for BoL nerf! , and now BoL is useless in both PvE and PvP.( at least for some, who don't have good sustain. Also, magicka cost as increased).
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Lyar09✭✭✭✭✭No bluffs. I settled on a range nerf since proposing it ages ago and have been 100% consistent since.
I still think the damage is absurd, though, and I'm not the only one. A range nerf would just be the simplest change, introducing counterplay without requiring compensatory buffs.
You've talked about nerfing both the damage and the execute % threshold. I just quoted you FFS. You may have settled on nerfing the range now, but this is the exact point I made earlier. Many of your crowd have vehemently argued one aspect needs to be nerfed, and then change to picking something else. If that aspect was truly broken in your eyes, then there should be consistency.
I've argued against you and others over why damage nerfs (as you've called for them) are unnecessary, and I've argued with others over why making it dodgeable again is a terrible idea. These same people now say "the only thing it ever needed was a range nerf." Maybe don't act so surprised when we have a hard time taking you seriously and giving weight to your points, who knows if you'll still be arguing them in a few weeks?
Zheg, for someone who supposedly doesn't even use the skill, you care entirely way too much about this ability. Also, can you try and keep your responses under 2 paragraphs? I swear it's like reading the next Harry Potter book everytime you respond to somethingPC/NA | twitch.tv/ohhlyar | youtube.com/lyaryt8 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been maining a stamsorc for a long time now after having played every other class and i can honestly say i have NO problem against beamplars. I block+heal if im too far while i gapclose, if im right in melee range i interrupt, and if im lazy i just run behind a rock/tree. Pretty simple counters but i understand why its hard sometimes with constant 500+ ping.
Magplars are one of the slowest things in the game and, if you've played one, youre usually fighting in one spot, aka protect dis house. Once i'm in melee range, beam is nothin, in fact, i WANT them to beam me from up close. Even when i get down to like 20% i interrupt+block+heal, its a guaranteed interrupt (if it lands) and its feels great to kill a magplar out of stam with light attacks.
If theres going to be a nerf to Jesus beam, all they would have to do is reduce the range by 4-5m but if you wanna nerf Jesus Beam for PvP reasons, then we better talk about PvP trash like Fasalla, Malubehts, and pretty much the entire balance/core mechanics of PvP like healing, battle spirit, and aoe caps. Why do we have all that lag-causing nastyness when there are item sets out there that just negates them anyways and shifts metas/balance?? smh
Edited by PainfulFAFA on July 11, 2016 8:51AM4 -
sluice✭✭✭✭I like the idea of reducing the range by ~10 meters.
Down to 15-20 meters sound legit.
But I fee l like any other change to this skill would make it pretty much useless.
To be honest, the only time Jesus Beam becomes an issue for me is when you already have a bunch of heat coming your way and someone starts beaming at full health. It won't be long that you will drop in execute range.
Little organized groups seems to be a thing lately:
-DK spamming Talons
-Templar staying behing everyone and pre-executing with Jesus Beam
-1x -3x Nightblades/Sorc finishing you off
PSN: sluiceqc (NA-PS4) CP: 551+
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(vMA) drop table and probability1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No bluffs. I settled on a range nerf since proposing it ages ago and have been 100% consistent since.
I still think the damage is absurd, though, and I'm not the only one. A range nerf would just be the simplest change, introducing counterplay without requiring compensatory buffs.
You've talked about nerfing both the damage and the execute % threshold. I just quoted you FFS. You may have settled on nerfing the range now, but this is the exact point I made earlier. Many of your crowd have vehemently argued one aspect needs to be nerfed, and then change to picking something else. If that aspect was truly broken in your eyes, then there should be consistency.
I've argued against you and others over why damage nerfs (as you've called for them) are unnecessary, and I've argued with others over why making it dodgeable again is a terrible idea. These same people now say "the only thing it ever needed was a range nerf." Maybe don't act so surprised when we have a hard time taking you seriously and giving weight to your points, who knows if you'll still be arguing them in a few weeks?
Zheg, for someone who supposedly doesn't even use the skill, you care entirely way too much about this ability. Also, can you try and keep your responses under 2 paragraphs? I swear it's like reading the next Harry Potter book everytime you respond to something
Sorry, but 1 paragraph is rarely enough to adequately respond to the delusion in some of these posts, particularly when they go as long as the one Kena just posted above yours. Kena thinks he can deem when a discussion is over and has moderator powers to /close a thread
I mean... you could reply with an "lol", but why not use actual words?
It's a cute implication and a nice way to farm brownie points with the nerfplars (see? I can come up with stupid names too), but not really accurate when jesus beam just recently overtook blazing spears as my most frequent KB skill, with reflective light close behind it.
The reason I argue against the nerfplars so much is because not only do I disagree with them, not only do they have a history of posting bogus videos/screenshots/examples to deceive people to try and strengthen their weak points, not only do they change their minds on what exactly makes the skill so OP - I have enough insight to realize they'll just keep going until the skill is nerfed into the ground. Take Kena's posts for example, all throughout the thread he says it only needs a range nerf, I just quoted him (from only one thread mind you, I didn't care enough to look at others) where he very obviously is asking for the damage and the execute threshold nerfed ... and asking for the range nerf in the same thread. He is far from the only one. The nerfplars will get the range nerfed, and then they will continue on. Even if you don't think they will, besides disagreeing with them, I find all of the arguments I've seen for nerfs to not be sound or anecdotal at best. I have a fundamental difference in how the game should have a strong system of rock/paper/scissor and many seem to think that everyone should be capable of everything (case in point, most of these guys want to go pure melee range and not struggle with a skill like jesus beam - boo effing hoo). So yes, I will lobby against that. Three paragraphs, get over it.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 2:02PM6 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.5 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
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Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
Lol...right?1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the idea of reducing the range by ~10 meters.
Down to 15-20 meters sound legit.
But I fee l like any other change to this skill would make it pretty much useless.
To be honest, the only time Jesus Beam becomes an issue for me is when you already have a bunch of heat coming your way and someone starts beaming at full health. It won't be long that you will drop in execute range.
Little organized groups seems to be a thing lately:
-DK spamming Talons
-Templar staying behing everyone and pre-executing with Jesus Beam
-1x -3x Nightblades/Sorc finishing you off
Nah, the new meta is to just lock 3 yeezus beams on every single rolypoly stam dk FOTM build and just watch it evaporate, usually followed by hate tells because its usually some pro streamer or video spammer thats mad they died.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
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Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I guess I just don't understand why "changing your mind" or "evolving your opinion" has consistently been ridiculed in this thread. Last time I checked, it's okay to hear others out and over time grow closer towards a consensus with your oppponent. It's okay to think one thing, and have someone convince you that there's an alternative way of looking at it, changing the way you view it. That's called productive conversation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with evolving your opinion over time. This is a sign of MATURITY. This is a sign of respect for those who disagree with you, and a sign of intelligence. It's okay to open your mind and admit that others have valuable knowledge and points of view in this game. We should all atleast listen to and entertain opinions that counter our own, because often times they have a great deal of validity.
Ps: People quote and reference Blab because he is an experienced Templar. But he is also a respectful and rational human being. He will engage in conversation or debate with anyone. And he would never try to discredit or insult someone's intelligence like is often the case with these conversations.8 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I guess I just don't understand why "changing your mind" or "evolving your opinion" has consistently been ridiculed in this thread. Last time I checked, it's okay to hear others out and over time grow closer towards a consensus with your oppponent. It's okay to think one thing, and have someone convince you that there's an alternative way of looking at it, changing the way you view it. That's called productive conversation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with evolving your opinion over time. This is a sign of MATURITY. This is a sign of respect for those who disagree with you, and a sign of intelligence. It's okay to open your mind and admit that others have valuable knowledge and points of view in this game. We should all atleast listen to and entertain opinions that counter our own, because often times they have a great deal of validity.
Ps: People quote and reference Blab because he is an experienced Templar. But he is also a respectful and rational human being. He will engage in conversation or debate with anyone. And he would never try to discredit or insult someone's intelligence like is often the case with these conversations.
Again jules, when you say people have hate boners for you and call those disagreeing with you 'forumplars', you do not get to take the high road and pretend like you are not guilty of the same things youre casting on others.
Being convinced of an argument is one thing. Much of what ive seen people doing is a different thing.
Im sorry, but when i saw there was a problem with bombard i know exactly what i had a problem with. I may be swayed on the ways to address it, but i know the problem is permaroot. The nerfplars do not seem to know what their problem with the skill is. If its the range, then it should be the range and you debate ways of addressing it. If its the damage, you debate ways to bring it in line. If its the execute range, you debate ways to make that happen. If its not being dodgeable, you debate ways to make that happen. People are not changing their minds on the best way to address what they think is broken about the skill, the nerfplars are changing their minds on whats broken about it. If changing your mind on THAT is so easy, then it suggests you never actually felt all that strongly about it to begin with and were just fishing for nerfs. That doesnt speak of maturity, though it was a nice attempt to cover it as such.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 4:34PM3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
#MOREORBS2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Opinions do change on subjects, but when i point out obvious flaws in a specific video, i do not then laud said video as an example and ignore those flaws even if i agree with the premise.
Some of us are indeed grasping at straws, its not me though.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.Edited by Zheg on July 11, 2016 4:30PM8 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't think I need to go back and explain why my replies back then had no real thought to them, I also hadn't tried it in Cyrodill around that time. I was obviously a biased response, but to try and use them against me and then saying I magically forgot about the flaws. I think it's time for you to leave, not only can you not argue but you resort to personal insults to people when arguing. Just seeing some of the replies against some of the players in here, at this point I think I'd stop.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Opinions do change on subjects, but when i point out obvious flaws in a specific video, i do not then laud said video as an example and ignore those flaws even if i agree with the premise.
Some of us are indeed grasping at straws, its not me though.
Also, people cite blab because his opinion matters, no one cares if you don't give a flying *** about it, but when people see the name and the opinion, they care a little bit.
Meh, to me in this thread all you're really doing is arguing nothing what so ever constructive and just ruining a reputation.#MOREORBS2 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't think I need to go back and explain why my replies back then had no real thought to them, I also hadn't tried it in Cyrodill around that time. I was obviously a biased response, but to try and use them against me and then saying I magically forgot about the flaws. I think it's time for you to leave, not only can you not argue but you resort to personal insults to people when arguing. Just seeing some of the replies against some of the players in here, at this point I think I'd stop.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Opinions do change on subjects, but when i point out obvious flaws in a specific video, i do not then laud said video as an example and ignore those flaws even if i agree with the premise.
Some of us are indeed grasping at straws, its not me though.
Also, people cite blab because his opinion matters, no one cares if you don't give a flying *** about it, but when people see the name and the opinion, they care a little bit.
Meh, to me in this thread all you're really doing is arguing nothing what so ever constructive and just ruining a reputation.
You seemingly admit to joining the jesus beam nerf thread circus somewhat recently and then cannot understand why people are at zero patience when it comes to people like kena or jules? If you'd been dealing with them in the previous dozens of threads and dealt with both of their bogus videos meant to deceive people, youd have a little more insight into why seeing kena quote blab for the 25th time has lost its significance. If youd dealt with them being just as insulting if not more, and then having the gall to pretend like theyre on a high horse when it comes to discourse, youd call them out for it too.
If you call pointing out the flaws in why people are calling for nerfs and pointing out their own inconsistencies not constructive, then you dont want a discussion, you want an echo chamber.2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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It's just you that is getting irritated, most others are starting to realise how terribly and unthoughtful the skill can be, at least I have and I know some others who also have.
I don't think I need to go back and explain why my replies back then had no real thought to them, I also hadn't tried it in Cyrodill around that time. I was obviously a biased response, but to try and use them against me and then saying I magically forgot about the flaws. I think it's time for you to leave, not only can you not argue but you resort to personal insults to people when arguing. Just seeing some of the replies against some of the players in here, at this point I think I'd stop.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Opinions do change on subjects, but when i point out obvious flaws in a specific video, i do not then laud said video as an example and ignore those flaws even if i agree with the premise.
Some of us are indeed grasping at straws, its not me though.
Also, people cite blab because his opinion matters, no one cares if you don't give a flying *** about it, but when people see the name and the opinion, they care a little bit.
Meh, to me in this thread all you're really doing is arguing nothing what so ever constructive and just ruining a reputation.
You seemingly admit to joining the jesus beam nerf thread circus somewhat recently and then cannot understand why people are at zero patience when it comes to people like kena or jules? If you'd been dealing with them in the previous dozens of threads and dealt with both of their bogus videos meant to deceive people, youd have a little more insight into why seeing kena quote blab for the 25th time has lost its significance. If youd dealt with them being just as insulting if not more, and then having the gall to pretend like theyre on a high horse when it comes to discourse, youd call them out for it too.
If you call pointing out the flaws in why people are calling for nerfs and pointing out their own inconsistencies not constructive, then you dont want a discussion, you want an echo chamber.
You're honestly not offering anything constructive, you are only grasping straws as you like to say, saying there is already lag to cause ICD's, what kind of argument is that lol, not everyone plays in the lag fest you create.#MOREORBS1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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And there it is again, you resort to personal attacks because you can't offer anything else and hate being wrong. Please, please, for your own sake take your own advice and stop responding to me then.
If we're pointing out posts that are hilarious, your OP suggested an ICD to a single skill in a combat system built against the premise of internal cool downs. If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then theres no point responding to you.
Zheg, opinions change and yes I didn't agree with the video and picked flaws out, but now I agree with it. Don't try and tell me I can't change my own opinion lmao, who do you think you are? Honestly some of your replies are hilarious
Didn't agree with it back then, quoting something I said awhile back doesn't really mean anything, obviously my opinion changed?
Current meta, lol. Really?Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should one opinion count for more over another? Just because of PVP rank? My Templar is rank 24. How much weight is my opinion allowed to carry?
Have you been playing Templar on a regular basis in the current Meta? If so, then yes, I think your opinion carries more weight.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »The point is that an execute shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it is capable of dealing on a full health target.
But it doesn't do much damage on a full health target. It just doesn't. So why should I continue to listen to your opinion when you are posting false information?
As for damage, it's really easy to get around 4 or 5k ticks at full health. Just spec for it and read the tooltip
@Alcast does a great showing how terrible it can be in this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8v-oTHPio
And this is from you in the thread where this video was posted....Simple, this thread/video is stupid, you're just buffing your beam and not specing into anything else, highly ineffective in anything but picking someone off here and there.
And another quote from you...As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything .
And finally a quote from Gina back in March...
Thanks for your feedback on this ability, everyone. We did take a look at this ability just to make sure it was working properly and as intended, and it is. There are some circumstances where it can feasibly hit pretty hard, but that's ok in our eyes and we don't currently have plans to change its functionality. It's also worth noting that the way our Death Recap UI works is it combines all tickets of one channel together into one entry, so it may appear as though Radiant Destruction has some outrageous damage at first.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
And I guarantee you, the developers opinion are probably also going to change. At least I hope so
Yeah no, forget about ZOS' opinion, you shot down a video because it was unrealistic and "stupid" in your own words and are now praising it and citing it as an example. That's what you were being called out for nifty. Sure, some people change their minds, a whole lot of people seem to do it with Jesus beam regarding what they want nerfed about it. It's trendy. You don't identify the flaws in a video and then magically forget about them and use it as an example in your arguments.
The flaws I picked out in the video weren't even that great, but you're just grasping anything you can get a hold on to back up arguments I guess
Also, every skill has cooldowns ... what do you mean a combat system built against the premise of icd's? I guess I understand why you can't offer anything to the conversation/discussion cause you don't even understand how it worksEdited by Nifty2g on July 11, 2016 5:04PM#MOREORBS2
