Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

No, its actually not a strong heal in any situation. That is provable wrong. I gave you simplest scenario already in the original post.
RE: vampire passives and abilities. How is Dragon Blood any more effective in combination with Vampire than other abilities?

Because dragon blood is a heal that is intended to be used on low health. The undead passive and mistform support this.
Vampire DK tanks are almost immortal when you go for it. The best tanks in the game thanks to this heal, if Templars wouldn't dominate everything with malubeth at the moment. Well, Malubeth also benefits DKs. But not as much as Templars.

LOL

LOL +2.......

Even at (lets say 20%) low health (with a pool of 40k health), its a flat heal of (32/2*.33)= 5.28k..... You need 40 k health and need to be able to survive with 8k health without getting executed..... GL with that and all j-beam temps fighting to get that last beam tick on u......

Dragon blood should be a skill that get us out of execute range, it should prevent DKs from being executed. We dont have an execute skill which lets say it is fine but in order to be balanced we shouldnt be able to be executed then.

Dracane wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Vampire DK tanks are almost immortal when you go for it. The best tanks in the game thanks to this heal, if Templars wouldn't dominate everything with malubeth at the moment. Well, Malubeth also benefits DKs. But not as much as Templars.

This is a joke, right? We're talking about PvP.

"almost Immortal"
"...if Templar's wouldn't dominate..."

Surely this is a joke?

Not a joke at all. Do you want to deny, that Exploibeth Templars dominate everything ? Everyone complains about them. Stop making me look like an imbacile. I'm not making this up.

This thread isn't about exploits or Templars.

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

Also, wrobel said that he is fine that dragonblood is useless in pvp and medicore in pve. Can't find the thread, forums are filled with too many threads...was either in pts or combat/character subforum.

I think it was the TG eso live with Wrobel in it on the question and answer section. I threw up a little in my mouth when I heard it. Kind of sounds like. "we are okay with failure". Found it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKu7GnANIO8
@ 51:12

He says DB and igneous shield is designed for tanks because they scale of health...and yet we have shields that scale of damage, and BOL which scales off of damage so you can be both cannon and tank. You can even see him check his notes to answer the question, so it's a prepared answer and yet it makes no actual sense in PvP. Play it further to the execute question if you dare and you will see him compare mDK damage as even with all other class damage in PvP. You can tell he is balancing off spreads sheets rather than personal knowledge, experience, or understanding of the actual PvP environment and what is required as a gearing and build base for mDK's to compete in it.

I mean....the guy asking the question about dragonblood just started playing the game and even he could recognize how broken it was in PvP Mr Wrobel. You are the only way this gets fixed. Please step away from your spread sheets and enter your game so you can see what it is we have been telling you for a year now. All the numbers you look at daily are conditional and contingent numbers. You need to know the conditions to interpret the numbers.

Or not...

Damned you 1.5/1.6 ! Wrobel just don't want to fix dragonblood, he really don't care about the few stupid guys playing mag DK (light armor) in pvp.

Just let it go... we're doomed !

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

And you're a well known Sorc hater So we are even.
I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

^ This guy knows what he is talking about . None of us want the immortal DK back . I am saying this as a DK player . There are so many builds that are close to immortality already . Coagulating Blood makes it much easier with Minor Vitality with its current state . What I would like is giving something unique to Green Dragon Blood because that thing is the most useless skill in the game .

Armitas wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Before you rage at me for saying what I am gonna say , know that I am playing a DK as main .

You all Magicka DK players have insane healing with Burning Embers which is a very low cost skill and a very strong DOT .

Burning Embers is strong but only 10.5 seconds later. It's a strong heal if you let it auto tick off but if you steal it it won't be. If you are at 50% health and a radiant hits you are you really going to roll the dice and go for burning embers to get through it? No, it will get through once...maybe, and then not again for 10.5 seconds. Imagine a 10.5 second cooldown on BOL, or Sorc shields, or NB stealth. No, it's not a substitute for a working dragon blood. Also 1 skill shouldn't require an assistant skill to itself be viable and valuable such as the case with igneous>DB.

In addition you have to think about what sort of fights a mDK is going to find himself in with no mobility or escape. Most fights are going to be outnumbered or end that way. You can't survive the snipes, radiant, and stealth nukes to kill anything using a melee range heal with a 10.5 second cooldown. DB needs to work like it used to before they added battle spirit.

I am going to say no . I saw a DK spamming it and getting 4k heals each time . How is that not strong enough for you ? My friend and I tested mDK builds on PTS other day . He made a tank . Saying again , a tank . Without DB he got 20k healing with 8 seconds of waiting . How is that not strong ?

Another example , again in PTS , I was fighting a Stam DK . He was using MSA weapons with lots of DOTs . Just imagine the pressure with all the DOTs I had at that moment . We were both at %20 Health and I said ''I will go full cheese on you'' and started spamming Burning Embers . I got to full Health in 5 seconds and he died . And here you are saying it is only useful after 10 seconds . Sorry but you must be running white gear to say that .

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

And you're a well known Sorc hater So we are even.
I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

DKs don't need more healing? Dragons blood isn't for everyone? How are we supposed to heal then? WTB whatever game you are playing. Its definitely not the same one as me.

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

And you're a well known Sorc hater So we are even.
I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

DKs don't need more healing? Dragons blood isn't for everyone? How are we supposed to heal then? WTB whatever game you are playing. Its definitely not the same one as me.

Auri-El.....
You have burning embers, lava whip can heal as well and you have access to healing ward.
And now don't say "uhhh but dis is noooo Dk skill" who cares ? The only way for Sorcerers and magicka nightblades to heal is healing ward and it's an overpowered ability and the root why shield stacking is so absurd. All good Dks use it already.

Whatever game you are playing, it's either not TESO or you didn't make it out of coldharbour when you created your char and you missed everything that's going on lately

Dracane wrote: »

Thank you. Finally someone reasonable.
DK has enough survivability, they don't need another burst heal on top. Immunity vs 95% of all ranged attacks, a semi burst heal on demand with burning embers and killer dps and let's not even talk about DKs who add annulment and healing ward.
It's enough

First, all your claims of "its fine" or "DKs are tanky enough" have been stated with zero numbers, i.e. no evidence. You have thrown in straw men arguments like Healing Ward and Annulment -- which are available to ANY class. Then you talked about templars "exploiting" malubeth. Absolutely non of this has anything to do with the thread. Please either do some diligence, or stop posting here.

Liofa wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

^ This guy knows what he is talking about . None of us want the immortal DK back . I am saying this as a DK player . There are so many builds that are close to immortality already . Coagulating Blood makes it much easier with Minor Vitality with its current state . What I would like is giving something unique to Green Dragon Blood because that thing is the most useless skill in the game .

Armitas wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Before you rage at me for saying what I am gonna say , know that I am playing a DK as main .

You all Magicka DK players have insane healing with Burning Embers which is a very low cost skill and a very strong DOT .

Burning Embers is strong but only 10.5 seconds later. It's a strong heal if you let it auto tick off but if you steal it it won't be. If you are at 50% health and a radiant hits you are you really going to roll the dice and go for burning embers to get through it? No, it will get through once...maybe, and then not again for 10.5 seconds. Imagine a 10.5 second cooldown on BOL, or Sorc shields, or NB stealth. No, it's not a substitute for a working dragon blood. Also 1 skill shouldn't require an assistant skill to itself be viable and valuable such as the case with igneous>DB.

In addition you have to think about what sort of fights a mDK is going to find himself in with no mobility or escape. Most fights are going to be outnumbered or end that way. You can't survive the snipes, radiant, and stealth nukes to kill anything using a melee range heal with a 10.5 second cooldown. DB needs to work like it used to before they added battle spirit.

I am going to say no . I saw a DK spamming it and getting 4k heals each time . How is that not strong enough for you ? My friend and I tested mDK builds on PTS other day . He made a tank . Saying again , a tank . Without DB he got 20k healing with 8 seconds of waiting . How is that not strong ?

Another example , again in PTS , I was fighting a Stam DK . He was using MSA weapons with lots of DOTs . Just imagine the pressure with all the DOTs I had at that moment . We were both at %20 Health and I said ''I will go full cheese on you'' and started spamming Burning Embers . I got to full Health in 5 seconds and he died . And here you are saying it is only useful after 10 seconds . Sorry but you must be running white gear to say that .

4k will not take you out of execute range and even vigor ticks for higher than that and doesn't have a cool down. You can't spam it, its not a heal button. It has to do damage to build its heal and even when its built you have to be in melee range of that target if you want the heal now. How is a 4k heal with a cooldown going to work when you are almost always out numbered due to no escape or mobility?

You guys keep talking about mDK tanks being hard to kill. Yeah they take while bit they also don't do any damage because they are sacrificing for it. Meanwhile the people not in a 0 damage build need a heal to survive.

If you had to use the PTS to test it out I assume you don't have a mDK? While your two tests on PTS were interesting I have been playing only the mDK since beta and your test is not representative of anything.

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IxskullzxI wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't know. I see Dk tanks in pvp surviving everything by using only dragon blood. I know many complain about it, because just like sun shield, it is not so good for the average ressource stacker. But in the hands of a tank with a higher health pool, it's definately a strong heal that is actually kinda OP in combination with Vampire passives and abilities.

Not all abilities are good for every spec. With that being said, I think Dragonblood is perfectly fine as it is.

Easy to say when you're a tank hating sorc.

And you're a well known Sorc hater So we are even.
I know that Dragonblood is not for everyone. But for tanks, it works pretty well.

DKs don't need more healing. They are already impossible to kill as a mage with all this wings spam and healing ward and burning embers, while still dealing the highest DPS.

I don't want to destroy your thread. I'm just telling my opinon.

DKs don't need more healing? Dragons blood isn't for everyone? How are we supposed to heal then? WTB whatever game you are playing. Its definitely not the same one as me.

Auri-El.....
You have burning embers, lava whip can heal as well and you have access to healing ward.
And now don't say "uhhh but dis is noooo Dk skill" who cares ? The only way for Sorcerers and magicka nightblades to heal is healing ward and it's an overpowered ability and the root why shield stacking is so absurd. All good Dks use it already.

Whatever game you are playing, it's either not TESO or you didn't make it out of coldharbour when you created your char and you missed everything that's going on lately

Embers and whip both require targets to use, and whip only heals on off balance targets. Which is what? Every 5 seconds? Embers can be good but is unreliable. Yeah we can use healing ward, but magicka nb's can use it and cloak to get the heal and sorcs can streak. DK doesn't have mobility. The ward gets wrecked instantly because you can't get away from enemies to get the heal.

OMG. Surge requires targets, strife requires targets, puncturing sweeps as well. And ? It works.
We are talking about in combat situations and not because fall damage is killing you and you have no targets to heal

@Armitas

I do have a Magicka DK on live server but I don't spend Wax to test stuff . I just go to PTS .

If you are playing a tank and 4k HPS is not enough for you to survive execute phase , your tank build needs some work .

Do not compare Vigor with Dragon Blood . There are only 2 heals for stamina users and they deserve to be good while there are several heals+shields available to Magicka users .

Yes , you can spam it . I put it on my second slot most of the time . I press 2 again and again . There , I just spammed it and I got craploads of Healing .

You need to sacrifice to get tanky . If you can be tanky and offensive at the same time , where is the fun ?

I said I survived 3-4 DOTs from a Stam DK while at %20 Health which are overpowered by MSA weapons with only spamming Burning Embers . If you think this doesn't representate anything , I don't know what can .

You are supposed to stand your ground as a DK , not run away . If every class had a escape ability , spammable , super strong heals etc. the game would be pointless .

What most people want in this thread is a good heal , survivability , tankiness and good damage at the same time . DK has insane tankiness and survivability with decent damage and healing . There is nothing that excels at everything . Accept it and ask reasonable stuff instead of straight buffs .

Liofa wrote: »

@Armitas

I do have a Magicka DK on live server but I don't spend Wax to test stuff . I just go to PTS .

If you are playing a tank and 4k HPS is not enough for you to survive execute phase , your tank build needs some work .

Do not compare Vigor with Dragon Blood . There are only 2 heals for stamina users and they deserve to be good while there are several heals+shields available to Magicka users .

Yes , you can spam it . I put it on my second slot most of the time . I press 2 again and again . There , I just spammed it and I got craploads of Healing .

You need to sacrifice to get tanky . If you can be tanky and offensive at the same time , where is the fun ?

I said I survived 3-4 DOTs from a Stam DK while at %20 Health which are overpowered by MSA weapons with only spamming Burning Embers . If you think this doesn't representate anything , I don't know what can .

You are supposed to stand your ground as a DK , not run away . If every class had a escape ability , spammable , super strong heals etc. the game would be pointless .

What most people want in this thread is a good heal , survivability , tankiness and good damage at the same time . DK has insane tankiness and survivability with decent damage and healing . There is nothing that excels at everything . Accept it and ask reasonable stuff instead of straight buffs .

4K HPS. Where does this come from?
Execute phase? Of a boss? What are you talking about?

So you're telling me... that because you can press Dragon Blood twice and got "craploads of Healing" that its OK. This is a joke, right?

The only thing anybody is this thread is asking for is for Dragon Blood to be a viable self-heal in Cyrodiil. 16.7% of missing health is not a viable self heal.

Ishammael wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

@Armitas

I do have a Magicka DK on live server but I don't spend Wax to test stuff . I just go to PTS .

If you are playing a tank and 4k HPS is not enough for you to survive execute phase , your tank build needs some work .

Do not compare Vigor with Dragon Blood . There are only 2 heals for stamina users and they deserve to be good while there are several heals+shields available to Magicka users .

Yes , you can spam it . I put it on my second slot most of the time . I press 2 again and again . There , I just spammed it and I got craploads of Healing .

You need to sacrifice to get tanky . If you can be tanky and offensive at the same time , where is the fun ?

I said I survived 3-4 DOTs from a Stam DK while at %20 Health which are overpowered by MSA weapons with only spamming Burning Embers . If you think this doesn't representate anything , I don't know what can .

You are supposed to stand your ground as a DK , not run away . If every class had a escape ability , spammable , super strong heals etc. the game would be pointless .

What most people want in this thread is a good heal , survivability , tankiness and good damage at the same time . DK has insane tankiness and survivability with decent damage and healing . There is nothing that excels at everything . Accept it and ask reasonable stuff instead of straight buffs .

4K HPS. Where does this come from?
Execute phase? Of a boss? What are you talking about?

So you're telling me... that because you can press Dragon Blood twice and got "craploads of Healing" that its OK. This is a joke, right?

The only thing anybody is this thread is asking for is for Dragon Blood to be a viable self-heal in Cyrodiil. 16.7% of missing health is not a viable self heal.

Do you even read what are we talking about ? I was talking about Burning Embers . We all are talking about PvP here . You don't even read your own thread . Please read before you post .