Dodge roll everything

Shader_Shibes · July 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

I have 2k stam regen, 7x medium armour, all legendary with 5x well-fitted and 10% roll dodge cost reduction in pvp and if i spam roll dodge im still out of stamina in no time.

It's fine as is.

That's because you don't have Engine Guardian with well fitted traits equipped.

So thats what ive been doing wrong.......damn.

Voxicity · July 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Magicka based characters need dodge roll based off their max magicka then everything would be fine.

I disagree. When playing a magicka build you generally have more access to good class survivability skills anyway.

Sorc has Streak
Nightblade can spam cloak indefinitely/shadow image
Templar has BoL
Dragonknight can... do dragon stuff

Except that cloak is broken and useless in combat and shade is telegraphed and grants one poof.

I've been playing a stamblade for the best part of 6 months and I have no problems incorporating cloak into a defensive combo. It could be better but I wouldn't say it's useless.

And so what? I said good class survivability skills, not skills that get you away from the enemy in a straight line. Shade can be used effectively as a defensive skill if you know what to do with it, even on a stamblade.

Voxicity · July 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

I have 2k stam regen, 7x medium armour, all legendary with 5x well-fitted and 10% roll dodge cost reduction in pvp and if i spam roll dodge im still out of stamina in no time.

It's fine as is.

That's because you don't have Engine Guardian with well fitted traits equipped.

So thats what ive been doing wrong.......damn.

Yeah. Those dodge rolls procing engine guardian magicka sphere, helps tremendously.

Lokey0024 · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Use aoe.

Still gets dodged. They might have fixed this because i used sap essence as a finisher last patch for the tumble monkeys and it worked every time. Now it dodges, just like steel tornado and onion chili breath on the dk

DannyLV702 · July 2016

Lokey0024 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Use aoe.

Still gets dodged. They might have fixed this because i used sap essence as a finisher last patch for the tumble monkeys and it worked every time. Now it dodges, just like steel tornado and onion chili breath on the dk

When I dodge I still get hit by clapping mageblades so idk

Brutusmax1mus · July 2016

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Brutusmax1mus · July 2016

Then you're a sitting duck

leepalmer95 · July 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

Brutusmax1mus · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

I'm a row, maybe it's 7. The cost is like 13k stamina at that point.

Brutusmax1mus · July 2016

And if you're just dodge rolling, your opponent isn't dying at all. Dodge roll is fine.

Voxicity · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

The cost increase is accumulative so i wouldnt put it that much higher than 6 consecutively

Ffastyl · July 2016

From my two years experience, I have gleaned how dodge roll works mechanically.

Dodge roll negates all incoming single target attacks at the time of activation. This includes all attacks in the process of casting and projectiles mid flight. Area of effect attacks are not negated. The frustrating quirk is how the system handles current position: until the moment the roll animation finishes, the character is registered by the server as standing exactly where the roll started. At the roll animation's termination, the character's position is updated and for targeting purposes is like a delayed Bolt Escape.

This makes running, sprinting or even walking out of AoE more effective than rolling due to the delay in position update. This also makes targeting a character mid roll unintuitive and heavily in favor of the rolling character. The distance is just long enough that if a player were smart enough to target where the roll started, once the roll ends the character will be outside of the player's melee attack range. To adjust for this, the player would have to stand in the path of the roll, but this presents the issue of needing to turn 180 to continue attacking. At that point if the character rolls again, the same counter cannot be employed.

If the dodge roll is mechanically changed to update character position at the start of the animation, catching rolls would be more intuitive and roll spam less of an issue.

leepalmer95 · July 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

I'm a row, maybe it's 7. The cost is like 13k stamina at that point.

7 medium is 28% reduction, full 100 into cp would be 25%~, 7x well fitted would be 30%

83% reduction

OdinForge · July 2016

Play a stam build outside of a group or zerg, and limit yourself to one dodge every minute. See how that works out for you, what's with this misconception that stamina builds are overpowered because of dodge roll.

In reality most competitive stam builds today are making do with less and less regen than we had in 1.6, ironically while also facing higher dodge cost and a cooldown that increases that cost. I run around with 1K regen this patch, I used to have 3K on a Dunmer in 1.6 back in the day.

The reality is that magicka builds are suffering as a result of ZOS continuously nerfing movement across the board. Snares have increased, everything snares you. Spammable roots without cooldown, the nerf to rapids. This is the real issue, not stamina builds dodge rolling.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Mayrael
Then use the attacks that are unavoidable or even do a hard CC; come on mate don't tell me you can't even do that.

Brutusmax1mus · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

I'm a row, maybe it's 7. The cost is like 13k stamina at that point.

7 medium is 28% reduction, full 100 into cp would be 25%~, 7x well fitted would be 30%

83% reduction

Try it yourself. I made full well fitted, 80 in cp, full medium, you cannot roll dodge indefinitely. Even that said, why the hell would you do that?!

Egonieser · July 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

I think the increased cost, and even greater increased cost when used within the cooldown is fine as it is.

So you think that being able to heal from 20% up to 100% while being "immune" to almost 90% of attacks is fine? Roll dodge isnt even a skill, you dont need to slot it and its the most powerfull defensive strategy right now as there is rly few ways to counter it and kill someone while 1v1.

Well I don't think dodge roll spamming is an issue here. People who dodge roll spam generally end up dead anyway 'cause they have little or no stamina left. A good player will dodge roll into shuffle into cloak (edit: or reflective scales or a similar skill) into dodge roll again when it's off cooldown. I think anyway, I'm no expert.

My Stamblade has a full set of well fitted (gold quality) and some points in Tumbling. You won't ever see me run out of stamina from rolldodging, not in a single fight anyway. Combine it with 2.5k stam regen and 35k stamina - it's very much lethal, until lag hits and the b-stard refuses to dodge after spamming W 4 times in a row.

But do you spam it? Or wait for the cool down to finish?

Can spam it quite a lot before i take any noticable hit to my stamina (7 times consecutively)

Duiwel · July 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

[
Dragonknight can... do dragon stuff

LOL

Mayrael · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Mayrael
Then use the attacks that are unavoidable or even do a hard CC; come on mate don't tell me you can't even do that.

Ok give me example of spamable magical attack that can be used to kill roll dodgin target (except of RD as you all want to make it dodgeable)... and pls be fair dont tell me about aoes as the only magic aoe that could kill someone was nerfed last patch.

Birdovic · July 2016

Sorc has Streak
Nightblade can spam cloak indefinitely/shadow image
Templar has BoL
Dragonknight can... do dragon stuff

Please, for the Love of Azura, stop the
"Streak Is awesome for survival" Argumentation, im sick and tired of that.
Why you ask? Well, it doesnt even help you with running Away, gap closer spam and stuff...Only good for positioning in a fight...and in granting CC Immunity to the Enemy.

Also NB Cloak isnt that great anymore, too.

For Templar and DK I agree.

Mark my words, the new Set that Is coming with the Argonian Dungeon Pack ("Gossamer" Set)
will make PvP an even more frustrating Experience.

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

Birdovic wrote: »

Sorc has Streak
Nightblade can spam cloak indefinitely/shadow image
Templar has BoL
Dragonknight can... do dragon stuff

Please, for the Love of Azura, stop the
"Streak Is awesome for survival" Argumentation, im sick and tired of that.
Why you ask? Well, it doesnt even help you with running Away, gap closer spam and stuff...Only good for positioning in a fight...and in granting CC Immunity to the Enemy.

Also NB Cloak isnt that great anymore, too.

For Templar and DK I agree.

Mark my words, the new Set that Is coming with the Argonian Dungeon Pack ("Gossamer" Set)
will make PvP an even more frustrating Experience.

Streak is amazing! Easily the most evasive move in the game. It's a ton better than cloak, after using it I can see why they penalized it.

Jimbullbee85 · July 2016

I think dodge roling needs to make us immune to damage criticals. RO wouldn't be as strong then. Most RO spammers have very high spell critical ratings and is where most of the damage comes from. Blocking could also be immune to crits for the same effect. It would make tanks viable in pvp.

Mayrael · July 2016

I understand that with current meta most of you play with stam based toons and you dont want to touch your tralala but its rly serious problem just like shield stacking...

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Mayrael
Ok Flame lash/lava whip/molten whip. Quite sure you can't avoid inevitable det too.
fossilize/shattering rocks, quite sure that templar skill Power of Light (Which does damage you) is also unavoidable too.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

I was thinking more along the lines of giving magika classes there own shuffle. I would add to the light armor skill, the 20% chance when targeted by an attack to gain shield making you immune to all damage for the next 1 seconds. Ofcourse it would be 20 second duration as well.

Shader_Shibes · July 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

I understand that with current meta most of you play with stam based toons and you dont want to touch your tralala but its rly serious problem just like shield stacking...

It's not at all, maybe if it actually worked all the time, but more often than not you can still get hit in roll motion.

Bashev · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

I'm a row, maybe it's 7. The cost is like 13k stamina at that point.

7 medium is 28% reduction, full 100 into cp would be 25%~, 7x well fitted would be 30%

83% reduction

It is not additive. Here is the formula:

Bashev wrote: »

Roll dodge cost reduction
Base roll dodge cost 4040
3 glyphs - 609
7 medium armor pieces (7*4% = 28% - they are additive)
8 well fitted pieces (8*5% = 40% - additive again)
Champion passive 18%
The final formula is 4040*(1-0.28)*(1-0.40)*(1-0.18)-609 = 4040*0.72*0.6*0.82 - 609 = 1431 - 609 = 822

treborrealb14_ESO · July 2016

Mayrael wrote: »

So everyone wants that all skills should be dodgeable we should also think about roll dodge balance. The state where you can roll out of any troubles is as broken as RD spam everywhere (which is answer to roll dodge everywhere) so what are your ideas?
- make it to dodge only 2 skills per cast or
- while in roll dodge state you dodge also all heals or
- increase global cool down so you cant go from roll dodge to roll dodge to roll dodge without any gaps or... Any ideas?

WAITE

You just have to learn the

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAfXdb5LsA

Molag_Crow · July 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

I think dodge roling needs to make us immune to damage criticals. RO wouldn't be as strong then. Most RO spammers have very high spell critical ratings and is where most of the damage comes from. Blocking could also be immune to crits for the same effect. It would make tanks viable in pvp.

Nice idea to be honest.

hrothbern · July 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Even if you spec into full dodge roll reduction you can only dodge roll 6 times

Thats just a lie

I'm a row, maybe it's 7. The cost is like 13k stamina at that point.

7 medium is 28% reduction, full 100 into cp would be 25%~, 7x well fitted would be 30%

83% reduction

The cost reductions are multiplicative and not additive. Tumbling passive of the CP tree is max 18%.

You get 61.6% reduction with 7 gold MA Well-Fitted, the Athletics MA passive fully unlocked and 100 CP in Tumbling.