UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

Lyar09 · July 2016

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

Which 'victory' is hollow?

Are you, the person advocating the ability to enter groups with 3-4 man groups is saying that the tactic is not difficult?

are you saying you would be able to beat any of said players open field?

I dont personally consider hoping a wall and destroying countless bads a victory, but we love the idea of being hopelessly outnumbered, and I know some players who get tired of having a group of 5 try and siege down a keep with a raid + defending it. Its tiresome, and just prolongs the inevitable.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

And we can see your groups exploiting shady tactics and behaviors and generally making the gameworld a worse place for the majority of players.

Which 'victory' is hollow?

As for making the gameworld worse, I always loved the AD gates, visual masterpieces IMO. I look forward to getting real comfy down there. when not on DC, it seems you guys have also made some real friends on EP, and it would be nice to hop on some less used characters and hang out with old buddies on the south end of the map.

yodased · July 2016

When have I ever claimed to be good at pvp?

Can someone please show me the area of the entirety of the internet where anyone has ever heard me say that?

It's the opposite, sir. I understand that I have betters on the field, they will kill me every time.

I'm not worried about that and that is how it should be, that has never been in contention.

See this is the toxic behavior that I speak of, I am not saying that I couldn't beat you so I want you to stop cheating.

I am saying you can legitimately beat me without cheating, probably quite easily, why resort to it?

You know the tactics your group employs is cheese at best, I mean whatever good on you for farming bad players, but to try to get me riled up by saying I'm bad at pvp?

I know that, thanks, but I try to have fun, which players like you actively try to stop from happening.

That is all, sir, I'm sure you will be the texas heat in my near future and I'll congratulate you and your victory.

And before you ask, no, I don't lift and no I won't fight you in real life.

yodased · July 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And we can see your groups exploiting shady tactics and behaviors and generally making the gameworld a worse place for the majority of players.

Which 'victory' is hollow?

As for making the gameworld worse, I always loved the AD gates, visual masterpieces IMO. I look forward to getting real comfy down there. when not on DC, it seems you guys have also made some real friends on EP, and it would be nice to hop on some less used characters and hang out with old buddies on the south end of the map.

I mean do you even read what you write? Read that out loud lol, its juvenile, petty, vindictive and just confirms that you have deep seated issues.

So you are going to gate camp yellow now because your friends got banned for continually cheating?

GGWP

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

I was involved in twitch for a while, but I found it to be more of a popularity contest than people actually wanting to show/see good gameplay, so I just watch my buddy herfi now

Your point though is indicative of the general problem. Instead of actively trying to make this game better for everyone, some people use their access to information to make their game better at the cost of others.

It's mostly those with "unlimited" time, who also trend toward the bug exploiters/cheaters and spread it from there.

I would test on pts honestly, but I'm of limited time.

This is the problem with a pts, particularly if they want real feedback. Only the truly hardcore are going to do it, and that also tends to bring those that want a competitive edge at all costs into the fray.

The whole thing with gap closers is they were fine at one point... then the constant complain about things I never saw started up and now we got gap closers that are being abused. I routinely see people gap close from way out of range, certainly further than I can ambush... even though they have the same range.

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

if you dont see how you can accidentally gap close into a keep you must be fairly new to this game. You see their is a control called "tab target" and especially when clearing out the guards at a base of a outpost or inner it is very easy to accidentally tab someone on a oil and go charging up. That coupled with the charges causing endless cases of falling through the world is why I no longer run a gap closer on my chars.

As for the people in this thread upset, I could of easily guessed it. Its always the usual suspects. You can spot them from a mile away throwing shade at anyone better than them, and relying on the actions of others to carry them to a hollow victory.

oh well, having targets like these make the in game experience all the more fun lol

Are you really trying to claim that gap closing into a keep is purely accidental?

Consider the source is all that comes to mind I guess.

zyk · July 2016

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

1.5-2.0 Nirnhoned armor was working as intended. The issue was that it was OP.

While exploiting some bugs may be unintentional or even unavoidable, that is not the case for most. There is no excuse for intentionally exploiting bugs such as an overload bar bug.

This comes down to basic ethics because one plays this game with and against other people. Therefore, I have no sympathy for chronic abusers who are banned.

But again, I do not believe individuals should be banned for isolated instances of using gap closers to enter unbreached keeps. It is entirely possible to do this without knowing it is not intended.

How about you and/or your friends take your own advice when a new bug surfaces and chill instead of f**king other players with it like a rabbit in heat?

PeggymoeXD · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

Let's be real people. They've officially come out and announced that it is indeed an exploit recently. If players accused and 100% found guilty of using 3rd party software to manipulate the way the game works to their own advantage can be allowed to return to the game, I highly doubt anyone is getting banned before this recent announcement.

At least one person already was.

Was it before this official statement? Because that's what I mean. Zenimax probably won't do anything to players doing thisbefore this statement. It's been an exploit for so long, it would be almost impossible to ban every single player who has ever done it. That would include me and even one of the game's major streamers. Most of their PvP community would be gone. I mean you can do this on accident. It's not always on purpose. I just think from here on out, people will be punished. Or at least I hope so.

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

zyk wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

How about you and/or your friends take your own advice when a new bug surfaces and chill instead of f**king other players with it like a rabbit in heat?

Heh, I guess the thing you missed is that doing that is their goal.

There are always those that get their thrills at your expense. That's their goal, their motivation and F you if you disagree.

ZOS seems to not understand the toxic player well...It's toxicity for being toxic's sake.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

I said that it can be accidental. When did I say it was purely accidental?

I have seen it dozens of times from all 3 factions with all types of players. Many of them could be accidental, many not.

As for yodased, the elder therapist online. You seem to have a very small view of why people play the game. Im not upset of the banning of someone who runs with me, if you heard our conversations I told him to stop multiple times, hence why you didnt see me up on the walls etc.

I dont play this game to fit inside the little rule box you deem to be the proper parameters for online play. Since my days in No Mercy I didnt log in with the thought "how can I make little yodaseds play experience better today" no I logged on to enjoy my free time in the way I chose. Bs'ing with friends, and stomping people.

This game, believe it or not, has a competitive aspect to it. hence the leaderboards. I dont have a psychosis for choosing to win. You may be able to play that mind game with a younger, more vulnerable individual, but you have no power here, sir.

My real life is everything I could hope for, and has absolutely 0 bearing on my gameplay, or what I am writing here.

I simply play the game to win, within the parameters I believe to be victory.

if that is too difficult for you to comprehend, let me leave it to one of the greats for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOchttps://youtu.be/6PQ6335puOc

yodased · July 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

Are you, the person advocating the ability to enter groups with 3-4 man groups is saying that the tactic is not difficult?

are you saying you would be able to beat any of said players open field?

I dont personally consider hoping a wall and destroying countless bads a victory, but we love the idea of being hopelessly outnumbered, and I know some players who get tired of having a group of 5 try and siege down a keep with a raid + defending it. Its tiresome, and just prolongs the inevitable.

These are well adjusted comments, but this is once again an attempt to derail the conversation around the fact that your group is a bunch of exploiters who have been banned.

You can attempt to attack me all you want, sir, it won't work. They chose to break the rules, they get the consequence.

As far as your personal life, I'm very happy for you.

You seem to think I have some sort of ill will personally towards you or any of your group, I don't, I just don't want to see the type of player you are in the game anymore.

"farming" people as a concept is wrong in my opinion, but that is simply my opinion so I leave that alone mostly.

Clear exploiters get bans, simple as that.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

If farming people is wrong, why did the developers make the max AP rank achievable only by said farming, and lots of it at that?

Exploiters dont get bans, I suppose that is my gripe. I have seen much worse malignant cheating in my day, with little to no consequences(blinky, anyone?)

As for the people currently banned, So be it. let the hammer drop on everyone though, there is a yellow group who welcomed me to the server with it, I would like to see them in trouble.

Im not sure why you keep referencing exploiting and me in the same sentence. I have been around for a very, very long time, and everyone on every faction I have played with or against will tell you I do not cheat nor exploit.

Stratforge · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

DrMoonMoon wrote: »

@yodased has been the most negative and disrespectful person on this thread. You constantly engage in personal attacks against people you have never met and thus you really don't know what you are talking about. Then when that's no longer enough you whisper them. On top of all of that, your comments are laced with profanity There are other ways to discuss things instead of degrading and putting down others just because they have a different point of view. I hope you find what you are looking for in life.

By different point of view do you mean "exploiting is ok"?

And lol Yoda hasn't been the most negative and disrespectful person on this thread... He's not even close to my level of negative and disrespectful. He actually tries not to be like that, where I try to be like that most the time.

But, if you are caught cheating... you really deserve to be mocked and ridiculed (as far as the mods will allow), because lol bro you are cheating at a game that isn't single player.

I once had a friend that cheated at board games... you couldn't go to the bathroom or take your eyes off him. Bishops would change the color tile they were on, and when you caught him with two bishops on the same color his response was to sweep the board with his hand and either tell you to leave or leave himself. The reason for it was he wasn't very good and cheating was the only way to change that.

So yah, I'm saying the cheaters cheat because they aren't very good and that's their crutch.

Just like zergs ball up together because they aren't good. This is a elder scrolls game. You can do whatever tf you want to do. If you want to solo play you can solo play, if you want to play in a large group play in a large group. If i want to gap close onto some random who decided to stand right where sieges can hit him, then he deserves it. It is his fault for standing on the edge, and it is zos fault for making gap closers what they are. You pc players had a long time to test pts for stuff like this, and i know you guys reported it. No one is to blame here but a companies inability to fix the problem that later would turn into such a huge mess. There are far more important things to fix rather like the lag and constant loading screens in dungeons. Those have yet to be fixed for console.

Actually you can't gap close into keeps/outposts without it being an exploit, sorry.

The other problem you mentioned is the pts thing. The problem there is that's it's full of the cheats and exploiters that go there under the pretense of testing, but they aren't remotely interested in it past gaming the system. For PC, all the "usual suspects" are also busy on the pts. This is why exploit after exploit is used in the game immediately after a patch.

It's like you have some basic understanding of the process but the nuance eludes you. They test on the PTS, they tell ZoS of all the problems that ZoS introduced, then ZoS introduces them anyway. They are essentially features at that point. ZoS can treat them as exploits if they want but it's not smart from a business perspective and it's not smart from a moral perspective.

yodased · July 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

If farming people is wrong, why did the developers make the max AP rank achievable only by said farming, and lots of it at that?

Exploiters dont get bans, I suppose that is my gripe. I have seen much worse malignant cheating in my day, with little to no consequences(blinky, anyone?)

As for the people currently banned, So be it. let the hammer drop on everyone though, there is a yellow group who welcomed me to the server with it, I would like to see them in trouble.

Im not sure why you keep referencing exploiting and me in the same sentence. I have been around for a very, very long time, and everyone on every faction I have played with or against will tell you I do not cheat nor exploit.

only by association, sir, the people you are surrounded with will cloud perceptions.

I have never claimed you did anything against the rules, if I did I would have just reported you and called it a day.

If yellow exploits, they should be banned. If red exploits, they should be banned. if blue exploits they should be banned.

This is about a person or people, its about the mindset of the community and allowing the toxicity to spread.

You can judge me, call me names, do whatever it is you want, but I won't stand for it.

Yes i suck at pvp, no I won't sit back and let other people attempt to ruin something I love.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

Im not judging you, I honestly dont care about you, yours etc.

This is a game with a rating for adults, I assume everyone here is one, and responsible for their own action. The only reason you have come onto my radar is because you seem fit to tell people what is ok, and what isnt, well outside of the realm of exploits.

If you want to report people for something illegal, by all means, go ahead. But dont tell me that taking 5 people to an outpost and holding it against 60+ is game breaking or wrong. Its some of the most fun you can have in this game, and im sure many players would agree.

And I wasnt trying to get under your skin. I was pointing out something. For instance I knew about cheat engine for well over a year, and not only knew about but actively PvP'd against people using it. I didnt see it as a big deal because they were still very killable, it just presented a sort of extra challenge. Same goes for blinxey, the ultimate exploit, etc.

None of them ruined the game for me because none of them were impossible to overcome if you put the effort into it.

I wont tell you how to play the game within the rules, please dont tell me. Your skill or lack there of is not an excuse for you to dictate how others should play.

XILoKoIX · July 2016

@yodased Don't fret, subatomik's mind is just scrambled from all of the crystal frags i've put in his face over the last 4 days.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

XILoKoIX wrote: »

@yodased Don't fret, subatomik's mind is just scrambled from all of the crystal frags i've put in his face over the last 4 days.

No Idea who you are, but im sure you are part of the healthy 3 million AP I have made over those 3 days lol.

I spent a long time being focused down by the best players in the game, excuse me if in their absence I have absolutely no idea who you are.

yodased · July 2016

@Chuga_Rei stating my opinion is not telling anyone what to do in the game by any means.

It's my opinion that any time that group of 5 is in the tower, that tower should be taken down. The pugs flip the flag and you get 100k AP.

Your inference that I was judging that play style is interesting really, I don't particularly care for it and honestly that would not be fun for me, but you do you, I'll do me.

You won't catch me in a tower farm, for sure. I cam on your radar because your friends are cheaters who got caught.

Everything else is your judgement of me, and that is fine, but that is it

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

People were punished for something ZOS deemed an exploit, so be it. I just wish they took action like this consistently instead of just randomly enforcing it.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

And yes lyar called it perfectly. I have seen people in this thread using maulbeth in game, yet think its any less of an exploit than the gap closer.

the cognitive dissonance is real.

yodased · July 2016

I don't even know if this is the same conversation anymore.

Did I say I was competition? Why is this continually turning into the fact that you can kill me in a video game? I mean we get it, you are better than me at pvp.

subtomik is 100% better than me at pvp and probably always will be, without cheating, he would kill me every time in an open fight and then openly teabag me for distain of my 'attitude'

There, now that is out of the way and we can get back to conversation at hand.

You killing me consistently doesn't make my game any less enjoyable, its hilarious you keep zoning in on this.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

what is the conversation at hand? Because im pretty sure we agree. Cheating should be dealt with.

XILoKoIX · July 2016

@Chuga_Rei Don't worry boo, you'll recognize me before too long, only been back to the game for a week

yodased · July 2016

As much as we would enjoy the measuring match that is about to happen, can we please stick to the conversation of gap closers and Zenimax's response to them?

I'm sure you will have some epic fights, but not here ok? Thanks @XILoKoIX and @Chuga_Rei

This has been for the most part a civil discussion, please keep it that way.

You both will wreck me in 2 seconds, that has been discussed

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

XILoKoIX wrote: »

@Chuga_Rei Don't worry boo, you'll recognize me before too long, only been back to the game for a week

Well, if you were a sorc of note from the past it shouldnt be hard. As for "only being back a week" Part of what brought me to AZ was it didnt matter how long you had been around or not.

I cant really think of someone hard casting frags on me that would make me worry, though, so im a bit skeptical lol.

on top of that most returning names worth talking about have either contactecd me or are in a guild with me.

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

As much as we would enjoy the measuring match that is about to happen, can we please stick to the conversation of gap closers and Zenimax's response to them?

I'm sure you will have some epic fights, but not here ok? Thanks @XILoKoIX and @Chuga_Rei

This has been for the most part a civil discussion, please keep it that way.

You both will wreck me in 2 seconds, that has been discussed

you can ask any of your faciton mates who have whispered me, i am very civil and polite.

and trust me, I have no need to play 20 questions with some random. Validation in this game for me doesnt come from some random on the forums etc, if he isnt a friend of mine from any faction his words have 0 weight.

yodased · July 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

As much as we would enjoy the measuring match that is about to happen, can we please stick to the conversation of gap closers and Zenimax's response to them?

I'm sure you will have some epic fights, but not here ok? Thanks @XILoKoIX and @Chuga_Rei

This has been for the most part a civil discussion, please keep it that way.

You both will wreck me in 2 seconds, that has been discussed

you can ask any of your faciton mates who have whispered me, i am very civil and polite.

and trust me, I have no need to play 20 questions with some random. Validation in this game for me doesnt come from some random on the forums etc, if he isnt a friend of mine from any faction his words have 0 weight.

Thank you, this is all I could have asked for. We don't have to like each other, but you deserve the respect of being an excellent player and i deserve basic human decency

Arthg · July 2016

Sad to see yet another thread in which people rile up one another simply because ZOS just won't do their job of policing the game.

No "exploits" should have been left unfixed for two years, this is insane.

Anybody who cares should just hold back on crown purchases until ZOS sorts this out in a clear, simple manner.

phairdon · July 2016

Witnessed players using the gap closing exploit during the weekend, after returning to Cyrodiil. When I head back to Cyrodiil later this week, not sure I'll report anyone for gap closing onto keeps.
My opinion is the exploit obviously should be fixed. Any players reported should be given a warning first & foremost. Continue to knowingly exploit after a warning, ban. Put some GM's into Cyrodiil for a couple of days.
Anyone running guilds or even streaming the game, should make people in their guilds or watching live streams aware of this discussion and ZOS's response.
My 2 cents worth.

Edit

How about a 3 strike option?
1st offense - warning
2nd offense - 72 hour ban
3rd offense - permanent ban

Chuga_Rei · July 2016

Arthg wrote: »

Sad to see yet another thread in which people rile up one another simply because ZOS just won't do their job of policing the game.

No "exploits" should have been left unfixed for two years, this is insane.

Anybody who cares should just hold back on crown purchases until ZOS sorts this out in a clear, simple manner.

Ay. I think if I was at all upset by this round of "exploits" its that ZOS has done almost no policing on so many of the more game breaking ones, its surprising to see action taken so quickly.

I wonder if a thread was made on say maulbeth, if the banhammer would drop, or if there is just 0 consistency as it seems.