The Toxic Root Meta in Alliance War / PvP

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Jules wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

It's really not spammable and sustainable.

To "lockdown" the same area, caltrops is a hell of a lot cheaper and sustainable.

Even with high stamina regen, Bombard will make you go out of stamina.

Caltrops give you 3 seconds of 70% snare 30 seconds of 30% snare for 5.5k stamina cost.

Bombard gives you 3 seconds of root with 5 seconds of 40% snare for 2k.

Francescolg wrote: »

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

The range where the cone is actually effective to lockdown a big area is probably 5-10m. So it's actual range to affect an area is much shorter than advertised.

Anyways, if your goal was to root an area for duration, it is possible with bombard... sure. Have to figure it's pretty cheap to do if you are only doing it every 3 seconds. But if someone is really standing there well within range and spamming it on you and you let them... well, lol... I guess crying on the forums is the best defense to it.

Fasoo · July 2016

Technically in game anything more than 4 is a "large group" so that's how I view it.

ggwp Navitas salt thread

Telel · July 2016

Hektik_V wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

So do I stack my raid with PM and push objectives or do I farm alone at milegates and bridges and not push objectives?

Which one of those two distinctly separate things, but both of which you claim I do?

If this one had an elf in this fight they'd point out you'd do whatever got you the most AP, and or likely foiled humble Telel plans.

Fortunately Khajiit has no need to intercede in the conversation and can safely not make such comments until they're appropriately amusing.

God_flakes · July 2016

...

Telel wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

So do I stack my raid with PM and push objectives or do I farm alone at milegates and bridges and not push objectives?

Which one of those two distinctly separate things, but both of which you claim I do?

If this one had an elf in this fight they'd point out you'd do whatever got you the most AP, and or likely foiled humble Telel plans.

Fortunately Khajiit has no need to intercede in the conversation and can safely not make such comments until they're appropriately amusing.

But....you just made it.

Telel · July 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

...

Telel wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

So do I stack my raid with PM and push objectives or do I farm alone at milegates and bridges and not push objectives?

Which one of those two distinctly separate things, but both of which you claim I do?

If this one had an elf in this fight they'd point out you'd do whatever got you the most AP, and or likely foiled humble Telel plans.

Fortunately Khajiit has no need to intercede in the conversation and can safely not make such comments until they're appropriately amusing.

But....you just made it.

This one can assure you of their innocence and will do so with a most benign expression upon their face.

Any statements to the contrary are in fact just those wishing to falsely besmirch a humble and well manngered khajiit. Such slanderous accusations are quite rude and should be ignored.

God_flakes · July 2016

Telel · July 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

Khajiit can post gifs emoting their actions too!

Satiar · July 2016

God_flakes · July 2016

Remind me to set out fresh bowls of anti-freeze.

Xsorus · July 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

It wont.

This is true; the town capture won't help with the zerging that happens... It will probably bring some small man fights around those areas which will be nice.

God_flakes · July 2016

I love to small man but don't gaf about armor sets. So what incentive is there for me to go to those towns? I wish they had just made them map/combat related. How hard could that have been?!

The-Baconator · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

It's really not spammable and sustainable.

To "lockdown" the same area, caltrops is a hell of a lot cheaper and sustainable.

Even with high stamina regen, Bombard will make you go out of stamina.

Caltrops give you 3 seconds of 70% snare 30 seconds of 30% snare for 5.5k stamina cost.

Bombard gives you 3 seconds of root with 5 seconds of 40% snare for 2k.

Francescolg wrote: »

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

The range where the cone is actually effective to lockdown a big area is probably 5-10m. So it's actual range to affect an area is much shorter than advertised.

Anyways, if your goal was to root an area for duration, it is possible with bombard... sure. Have to figure it's pretty cheap to do if you are only doing it every 3 seconds. But if someone is really standing there well within range and spamming it on you and you let them... well, lol... I guess crying on the forums is the best defense to it.

If you're running out of stamina spamming bombard in group you REALLY need to change your build. I can run 1500 recov on a stamplar and cast rapids every other cast or 3 times in a row after a break free and never run out of stam with consistent repentance and the occasional shard while our group is idle. Also caltrops isn't what kills good groups in Xv4-5X, its the permaroot coming from bombard spam.

Chilo · July 2016

Navitas wrote: »

So as I'm sure we've all read there was a ton of pvp changes going on in this new release, glad to see honor guards were the target of the nerf hammer this time because they've solo wiped my group so much before. On a more serious note, I feel like the main thing that has to be addressed right now is the current state of group vs group pvp which has turned into "who can spam more roots on the other group inside of negates."

My point is: small groups rely on mobility and kiting in order to break apart groups multiple times their size. Fighting guilds where they have 10 people just spamming bombard completely shuts that down and our only counter play is to use a near broken skill (aka Purge), pop rapids and then not do any damage or healing (that's a sure fire way to kill a bunch of people), or just reroll all stamina classes to roll around? I am certain that anyone who runs a smaller sized group of solid players against zergs will say the same things I've repeated here, it's frustrating to deal with in lag especially when everyone who only has to spam one button to lock down a group is completely fine but when you're trying to bar swap every 3 seconds to throw off heals or shield yourself, reapply proxies, buff up, apply your own debuffs to enemy groups and still manage to do damage in the middle of 700 ping, it just makes for an all around salt filled night where you just say *** it and go sit in a tower somewhere to farm. Thank you for taking the time to read this post from a salty (and depressed after not seeing any changes to this in the new update) magicka PvP'er, hopefully some things I've said resonate with people out there who have had these same thoughts in PvP lately.

I think they should also fix line of sight healing not necessarily being able to heal through walls and doors but.. I was PvPing with a friend and there was a small pile of logs in front of me and he was behind them.. and I could not heal him because he was not line of sight of me.. which I honestly think is terrible and BS because I can obviously see my friend, "in my line of sight not through a door" and I cannot heal them.

I agree with taking away healing through doors and walls but small objects such as rocks, logs, bones... yeah no that is extremely unfair especially if my fellow teammate is standing right in front of me but a small rock wants to hug my leg and say "Nope you can't heal."

dashima · July 2016

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

NACtron · July 2016

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

To be fair we rarely ever stack with Invictus (execpt for the times where we need to overhelm a massive Alessia defence) but we do coordinate with them. The example you used of black boot and Bloodmanye being taken a few days ago was Pact Militia taking black boot while Bloodmayne was being taken by Invictus. We were coordinating yes, but no we were not "stacking"

frozywozy · July 2016

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

I agree entirely about this. Perfect example being when you see Fantasia + Arcane Council + Dominion Knights + Vehemence + Children of Hircine stacking together while sieging Brk mine side in a small gank squad.

Zheg · July 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

I agree entirely about this. Perfect example being when you see Fantasia + Arcane Council + Dominion Knights + Vehemence + Children of Hircine stacking together while sieging Brk mine side in a small gank squad.

Except those guilds do indeed acknowledge when they stack. Also, pretty sure those guilds have never all been on at the same time, you can take it from someone who desperately tried to figure out what groups were running in primetime so we could coordinate and hit different targets - the opposite of what you allude to.

dashima · July 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

I agree entirely about this. Perfect example being when you see Fantasia + Arcane Council + Dominion Knights + Vehemence + Children of Hircine stacking together while sieging Brk mine side in a small gank squad.

It's true, now that AD TF actually has people, the AD zerg is reaaallllll!!!!

Let's all reroll DC together.

Psilent · July 2016

Should make PvP interesting, at least I hope.

Alliance War
General
Increased the respawn timer for Forward Camps from two minutes to five minutes.
@Zheg

Zheg · July 2016

Psilent wrote: »

Should make PvP interesting, at least I hope.

Alliance War
General
Increased the respawn timer for Forward Camps from two minutes to five minutes.
@Zheg

That should help a bit. Poke me when theyve also fixed purge, invisible siege, invisible and mobile negates, negates outclassing every other ultimate in the game, permaroots, and when they actually have a healthy vision for pvp. My week away from eso has made me greedy, its almost like i expect basic and obvious things to be fixed now.

_Chaos · July 2016

Psilent wrote: »

Should make PvP interesting, at least I hope.

Alliance War
General
Increased the respawn timer for Forward Camps from two minutes to five minutes.
@Zheg

Damn, I might actually have to log in this week now.

FENGRUSH · July 2016

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

Wow, did you throw my name in the mix for zerging? Usually its the other way around here??

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

The-Baconator wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

It's really not spammable and sustainable.

To "lockdown" the same area, caltrops is a hell of a lot cheaper and sustainable.

Even with high stamina regen, Bombard will make you go out of stamina.

Caltrops give you 3 seconds of 70% snare 30 seconds of 30% snare for 5.5k stamina cost.

Bombard gives you 3 seconds of root with 5 seconds of 40% snare for 2k.

Francescolg wrote: »

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

The range where the cone is actually effective to lockdown a big area is probably 5-10m. So it's actual range to affect an area is much shorter than advertised.

Anyways, if your goal was to root an area for duration, it is possible with bombard... sure. Have to figure it's pretty cheap to do if you are only doing it every 3 seconds. But if someone is really standing there well within range and spamming it on you and you let them... well, lol... I guess crying on the forums is the best defense to it.

If you're running out of stamina spamming bombard in group you REALLY need to change your build. I can run 1500 recov on a stamplar and cast rapids every other cast or 3 times in a row after a break free and never run out of stam with consistent repentance and the occasional shard while our group is idle. Also caltrops isn't what kills good groups in Xv4-5X, its the permaroot coming from bombard spam.

Well, there is this thing called math. Math is like magic, but it works with numbers.

To be both spammable and sustainable you would need 3k+ stamina recovery being bombard drains 2k per second if you are spamming it.

That's not to say you can't selectively spam it on ball groups to slow them down.... The point i made it wasn't spammable and sustainable... which for the majority of builds it isn't.

Maybe it's a little cheap for it's effectiveness, but that's another argument entirely. A for instance of that argument would be if you were to increase it's cost to 3k it becomes unsustainable for any build.

The problem most people seem to have is not spammers of it, but how many people that work it into a rotation on groups.

Zheg · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

It's really not spammable and sustainable.

To "lockdown" the same area, caltrops is a hell of a lot cheaper and sustainable.

Even with high stamina regen, Bombard will make you go out of stamina.

Caltrops give you 3 seconds of 70% snare 30 seconds of 30% snare for 5.5k stamina cost.

Bombard gives you 3 seconds of root with 5 seconds of 40% snare for 2k.

Francescolg wrote: »

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

The range where the cone is actually effective to lockdown a big area is probably 5-10m. So it's actual range to affect an area is much shorter than advertised.

Anyways, if your goal was to root an area for duration, it is possible with bombard... sure. Have to figure it's pretty cheap to do if you are only doing it every 3 seconds. But if someone is really standing there well within range and spamming it on you and you let them... well, lol... I guess crying on the forums is the best defense to it.

If you're running out of stamina spamming bombard in group you REALLY need to change your build. I can run 1500 recov on a stamplar and cast rapids every other cast or 3 times in a row after a break free and never run out of stam with consistent repentance and the occasional shard while our group is idle. Also caltrops isn't what kills good groups in Xv4-5X, its the permaroot coming from bombard spam.

Well, there is this thing called math. Math is like magic, but it works with numbers.

To be both spammable and sustainable you would need 3k+ stamina recovery being bombard drains 2k per second if you are spamming it.

That's not to say you can't selectively spam it on ball groups to slow them down.... The point i made it wasn't spammable and sustainable... which for the majority of builds it isn't.

Maybe it's a little cheap for it's effectiveness, but that's another argument entirely. A for instance of that argument would be if you were to increase it's cost to 3k it becomes unsustainable for any build.

The problem most people seem to have is not spammers of it, but how many people that work it into a rotation on groups.

Nope. Wrong. It is indeed the spammers that people have a problem with. Its the people that continue to make that obnoxious "twang" sound over your dead bodies long after the fight is over. They are literally hitting air when theres no one left to fight and youre trying to argue it cant be spammed. /facepalm

If it was a rotation then me hitting purify every second would let me move, but thats not the reality. A rotation would still need to be addressed because when you scale up that one person hitting bombard every 3 or 4 seconds to 50 people doing it, it evokes the same broken mechanic that occurs when its spammed.

A lot of the same people i see defending bombard were the same ones that railed on barrier. One barrier was never a problem, but multiple people using it in a rotation enabled massive sustain. Barrier was a problem when scaled up to multiple people using it and that had to go according to this crowd. Bombard is a problem when a few spam or many use it in a rotation, but that needs to stay because reasons. It was pretty easy to stay alive and avoid a group rotating barrier when they bombed, the same cannot be said for bombard. Anyone that defends bombard but complained about barrier is a hypocrite.

The-Baconator · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

It's really not spammable and sustainable.

To "lockdown" the same area, caltrops is a hell of a lot cheaper and sustainable.

Even with high stamina regen, Bombard will make you go out of stamina.

Caltrops give you 3 seconds of 70% snare 30 seconds of 30% snare for 5.5k stamina cost.

Bombard gives you 3 seconds of root with 5 seconds of 40% snare for 2k.

Francescolg wrote: »

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

The range where the cone is actually effective to lockdown a big area is probably 5-10m. So it's actual range to affect an area is much shorter than advertised.

Anyways, if your goal was to root an area for duration, it is possible with bombard... sure. Have to figure it's pretty cheap to do if you are only doing it every 3 seconds. But if someone is really standing there well within range and spamming it on you and you let them... well, lol... I guess crying on the forums is the best defense to it.

If you're running out of stamina spamming bombard in group you REALLY need to change your build. I can run 1500 recov on a stamplar and cast rapids every other cast or 3 times in a row after a break free and never run out of stam with consistent repentance and the occasional shard while our group is idle. Also caltrops isn't what kills good groups in Xv4-5X, its the permaroot coming from bombard spam.

Well, there is this thing called math. Math is like magic, but it works with numbers.

To be both spammable and sustainable you would need 3k+ stamina recovery being bombard drains 2k per second if you are spamming it.

That's not to say you can't selectively spam it on ball groups to slow them down.... The point i made it wasn't spammable and sustainable... which for the majority of builds it isn't.

Maybe it's a little cheap for it's effectiveness, but that's another argument entirely. A for instance of that argument would be if you were to increase it's cost to 3k it becomes unsustainable for any build.

The problem most people seem to have is not spammers of it, but how many people that work it into a rotation on groups.

As I said, if you run out of stam in a cp campaign either its lagging so much that you are locked in a block animation for +5 sec after a dodge roll ( on console block button=roll dodge ) or you're playing poorly\running a bad build. +3k recov with a pot is defiantly achievable while still doing respectable damage which is enough to spam bombard without a break for +20 seconds without any sort of assistance in the form of repentance or shards. Its hardly rocket science and pretending that caltrops is anywhere near as effective as bombard at hurting "ball groups" is just making everyone here that's in a half decent guild laugh at you.

Telel · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

dashima wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

But weren't you that guild that stacked with a full raid of PM at BM/BB a couple days ago..........................

Can't seem to remember that guild name though. Pact Militia Raid 8?

Anyway I really appreciate it when guilds are honest and admit that they do zerg. Because all of you do. Raid of 16, raid of 24, doesn't matter. Every guild has chased down tinier groups or solo players and just because you say you don't zerg because your group has X amount of people doesn't mean anything. I like to call it the Fengrush syndrome. Just because your group has 8 doesn't mean you're small scale if you have another 20-30 pugs right behind you.

Remember everyone: denial is the first step on the road to acceptance.

I agree entirely about this. Perfect example being when you see Fantasia + Arcane Council + Dominion Knights + Vehemence + Children of Hircine stacking together while sieging Brk mine side in a small gank squad.

Except those guilds do indeed acknowledge when they stack. Also, pretty sure those guilds have never all been on at the same time, you can take it from someone who desperately tried to figure out what groups were running in primetime so we could coordinate and hit different targets - the opposite of what you allude to.

This one says this to that.

When Telel is leading a group they stream it so as to remind everyone that they are.

a) not very good

b) doing exactly what they say they do.

C) really are fighting a prox blob with little more than PUGs and a mediocre build. And sometimes winning.

So it's pretty easy to confirm that any group stacking that occurs is not done out of choice as a first resort. Rather it happens when the opposition brings larger numbers to bear and the pack finds itself with the time to intervene.

Just this evening Telel made a very honest effort to avoid going to places they knew were already being swarmed by blobs on both sides. In the past they've made great effort to break their group up into smaller ones to fascilate spreading out fights.

Sadly tonight brought a combination of lack of other pack leaders, and a sever shortage of bloop groups willing and able to go stand toe to toe with twenty or so mediocre players. So this one could either smack down four people taking ash farm over and over, or they could go run amok at Farragut, then BRK, then Arrius, then Farragut again, and then back over to Ash to smack the aforemention four dogeflawed coverlet folks.

It's also worth noting that when we went off to attack things expressedly because of an honest attempt to prevent lag blobbing we encountered no real resistance from the 'good' Griffs who could have wiped us out. Instead a handful of brave but likely ungrouped players were left to defend keeps while the entirety of the EP faction seemd to be huddling in Arrius or Chalman.

This one imagines EP zone chat was filled with desperate calls for aid that went ignored at best, and likely received a 'LOL git gud' from people to busy farming AP to try and win.

To cap this all off Telel will now say that if people wish to see fights spreading out then we need more people leading groups instead of shoveling the job off onto the 1% willing to risk their sanity wrangling PUGs.

Also, none of what khajiit has said is relevant to how bombard does not need to be nerfed.

Zheg · July 2016

Telel wrote: »

...

Also ... bombard does ... need to be nerfed.

Telel, you said what needed to be said xD

Telel · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

...

Also ... bombard does ... need to be nerfed.

Telel, you said what needed to be said xD

This one reminds you that misquoted werewolves are like wookies who lose at space chess...

ataggs · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Should make PvP interesting, at least I hope.

Alliance War
General
Increased the respawn timer for Forward Camps from two minutes to five minutes.
@Zheg

That should help a bit. Poke me when theyve also fixed purge, invisible siege, invisible and mobile negates, negates outclassing every other ultimate in the game, permaroots, and when they actually have a healthy vision for pvp. My week away from eso has made me greedy, its almost like i expect basic and obvious things to be fixed now.

Come back to us @Zheg! Commenting on the forums when you haven't played in a week is almost as bad as someone farming pugs on Haderus commenting on the current meta on Trueflame.

KisoValley · July 2016

Even though I'm so very late just thought I'd leave a 'lol' here because someone a short while back tried to argue Stam DKs are weak.

Lol.