The Toxic Root Meta in Alliance War / PvP

Elong · July 2016

Darnathian wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

.....

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

If anyone has a screenshot they want to share with the Haxus leaders then feel free to PM me here or in game with a link. Cheating is not tolerated whatsoever. Let's please get that straight.

I've seen the screen shot, it's just a facebook conversation that accuses Jules of something without actually providing evidence, it proves nothing.

Yeah I was gonna say how is a screenshot going to prove anything about cheating? Would have to be a video. Thanks for the info Ghost

It was never claimed it *proved* anything. It was circumstantial evidence provided during a well known time when a lot of her friends (among others) were actually banned for cheating. It's no secret I have been every bit as vocal as Columba regarding the cheating for over a year now. Columba, rest his soul, who knew this cheat engine garbage was going on. He got a ban for sticking to his guns. It should come as absolutely no shock that a lot of the people he accused have been exposed. Mojican further confirmed this and seemingly has quit the game because of it. So please. Let's just please stop these silly pretenses. Everyone knows now what's going on. Is Jules guilty? I don't know and really don't care. I will tell you what I told Ghost Shot-she's been a party to slandering me and it felt good in the moment to have her over a barrel. I admit it. And it should further come as no surprise that the accusations of old are rearing their heads from the SAME people.

That's the last I'm even going to say on this whole subject. As far as I am concerned it's done. You all can keep doing what you're doing. Cheat, don't cheat. Play, don't play. Believe me, don't believe me.

So basically, you admit you can't confirm this player is cheating, but because she said mean things about you, you're gonna do it back? That's the jist right? I thought you were a mature woman...

You consider calling someone being a *** being mean? k thats all i need to know about u.

Not going to address any of the other points then?

frozywozy · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

Ghost-Shot · July 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

It wont.

Satiar · July 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

I'd put forward that Red has seen very little resistance from AD for quite a while. It's been commen practice to simply swarm Alessia with 2 raids and then stack everyone north. AD must seem like a gigantic Zerg now that EP actually has to have groups in different locations instead all stacked up in one spot.

And yeah, I totally stack attacked with Fantasia, probably 1-2 times a night? 90% of the time we took different sides of the map because we know stacking everyone up in one spot is how you lose territory. Biggest AD Zerg Ive seen in ages formed up this last campaign... To take back the our scroll. The horror. Shouldn't have taken it at 5am

ishilb14_ESO · July 2016

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

Zheg · July 2016

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

As for the blobbing, every alliance does it, though I do put a lot more of the blame on PM. It would be far less of a problem if the root meta wasn't a thing, but alas, these are the cards we're dealt. Either wrobel/wheeler will accept that they will be giving some power back to small and large organized groups in the way of mobility, or they will refuse and we will have the root meta for the foreseeable future.

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Elong · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

As for the blobbing, every alliance does it, though I do put a lot more of the blame on PM. It would be far less of a problem if the root meta wasn't a thing, but alas, these are the cards we're dealt. Either wrobel/wheeler will accept that they will be giving some power back to small and large organized groups in the way of mobility, or they will refuse and we will have the root meta for the foreseeable future.

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Everybody does everything you've suggested above. Everybody. This is the ESO we know.

Zheg · July 2016

Elong wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

As for the blobbing, every alliance does it, though I do put a lot more of the blame on PM. It would be far less of a problem if the root meta wasn't a thing, but alas, these are the cards we're dealt. Either wrobel/wheeler will accept that they will be giving some power back to small and large organized groups in the way of mobility, or they will refuse and we will have the root meta for the foreseeable future.

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Everybody does everything you've suggested above. Everybody. This is the ESO we know.

I said as much. God help me, there was a slight defense of haxus buried in there as I tried to set the facts straight. If only you were all like EPK, you'd be so easy to stand up for.

Elong · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

As for the blobbing, every alliance does it, though I do put a lot more of the blame on PM. It would be far less of a problem if the root meta wasn't a thing, but alas, these are the cards we're dealt. Either wrobel/wheeler will accept that they will be giving some power back to small and large organized groups in the way of mobility, or they will refuse and we will have the root meta for the foreseeable future.

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Everybody does everything you've suggested above. Everybody. This is the ESO we know.

I said as much. God help me, there was a slight defense of haxus buried in there as I tried to set the facts straight. If only you were all like EPK, you'd be so easy to stand up for.

You misunderstand me Zheggy old boy, I'm saying that the game has changed like that for everybody, I'm not being defensive at all, I remember when CN were called out for being the zerglings of the game, their horde is the standard TF look these days. Not everything has to be salt, anger and argument.

frozywozy · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

The core of this toxic root meta is the need for AD and DC players to have to somehow combat the prox det blobs that EP runs around with. Haxus is always farming around nikel with around a 40 player blob using prox dets on ones and twos. Pact Militia basically runs around with the rest of the faction blobbing down whatever flags on their side of the map with all their herkamer sorcs spamming negates; is it any surprise that EP is usually fighting a "green alliance"? EP constantly blobbing is the reason so many players in DC and AD have to slot bombard and every other root available.

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

As for the blobbing, every alliance does it, though I do put a lot more of the blame on PM. It would be far less of a problem if the root meta wasn't a thing, but alas, these are the cards we're dealt. Either wrobel/wheeler will accept that they will be giving some power back to small and large organized groups in the way of mobility, or they will refuse and we will have the root meta for the foreseeable future.

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

If Haxus goes to Nikel, it's because they're tired to deal with the enemy zerg stacking raids on top of each other and the lag it creates on the transit line.

Invictus has a rule to run max 16 at all times.

Get your fact straights and stop your specculations, again.

Orchish · July 2016

Less roots and snares would be nice. Nobody finds it fun being constantly snared and rooted in every single fight whether it's solo or group. It's just a frustrating form of gameplay.

Anazasi · July 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a number of posts that were personal attacks or otherwise not contributing to the topic of this conversation. If you can't remain civil, refrain from commenting.

lets try removing some of the broken root mechanics.

HoloYoitsu · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Let's not kid ourselves, Zheg. You and I both know how our conversation over that will go when the next patch hits.

Preview:

Zheg · July 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Let's not kid ourselves, Zheg. You and I both know how our conversation over that will go when the next patch hits.

Preview:

No no no, listen sorc. The patch notes for the next quarterly patch are already on the PTS. I'm talking about the one that will be out for late winter, because priorities.

HoloYoitsu · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Let's not kid ourselves, Zheg. You and I both know how our conversation over that will go when the next patch hits.

Preview:

No no no, listen sorc. The patch notes for the next quarterly patch are already on the PTS. I'm talking about the one that will be out for late winter, because priorities.

And I was referring to ANY potential future updates. I will refer to you as "loser" regardless. I'll give you a moment to let that sink into the gingerbread walls of your Templar house.

Zheg · July 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Let's not kid ourselves, Zheg. You and I both know how our conversation over that will go when the next patch hits.

Preview:

No no no, listen sorc. The patch notes for the next quarterly patch are already on the PTS. I'm talking about the one that will be out for late winter, because priorities.

And I was referring to ANY potential future updates. I will refer to you as "loser" regardless. I'll give you a moment to let that sink into the gingerbread walls of your Templar house.

I think there's something wrong with your cat.

HoloYoitsu · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

As for negates, I am slightly optimistic (I have no effing clue why...) that wrobel will at least be buffing the other class capstone ultimates to keep them in the same league as negate, if not nerfing negate. The when ... well that's probably not a question we want to hear an answer to.

Let's not kid ourselves, Zheg. You and I both know how our conversation over that will go when the next patch hits.

Preview:

No no no, listen sorc. The patch notes for the next quarterly patch are already on the PTS. I'm talking about the one that will be out for late winter, because priorities.

And I was referring to ANY potential future updates. I will refer to you as "loser" regardless. I'll give you a moment to let that sink into the gingerbread walls of your Templar house.

I think there's something wrong with your cat.

Jules · July 2016

Omg lol. I finally saw this ever elusive "screenie" that all but proves I'm a cheater. Turns out it's one random kid on ESO Facebook page saying I got away with speed hacking. Who it is? No idea. What this proves? No idea.

Great detective work guys.

Zheg · July 2016

Jules wrote: »

Omg lol. I finally saw this ever elusive "screenie" that all but proves I'm a cheater. Turns out it's one random kid on ESO Facebook page saying I got away with speed hacking. Who it is? No idea. What this proves? No idea.

Great detective work guys.

Its not some big mystery as to who that was. It was kirsi's shifty looking cat. The thing talks FFS, what, you think social media is too much for it? This is what you get for not being a dog person.

Much as i may at times dislike jules, the last time i ran into her solo at ash gate and she died, if she was ever to use a speed hack it would have been right then and there to make sure she didnt die to me. Can confirm, shes not hacking.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

I really shouldn't keep reading this , it's fattening .

HoloYoitsu · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Omg lol. I finally saw this ever elusive "screenie" that all but proves I'm a cheater. Turns out it's one random kid on ESO Facebook page saying I got away with speed hacking. Who it is? No idea. What this proves? No idea.

Great detective work guys.

Its not some big mystery as to who that was. It was kirsi's shifty looking cat. The thing talks FFS, what, you think social media is too much for it? This is what you get for not being a dog person.

Much as i may at times dislike jules, the last time i ran into her solo at ash gate and she died, if she was ever to use a speed hack it would have been right then and there to make sure she didnt die to me. Can confirm, shes not hacking.

Kahjiit has wares, if you have bitcoin.

vortexman11 · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

Zheg · July 2016

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

If we're doimg clarifications, the sentence was intended as 'closer to a full raid than haxus' and not an implication of the dirty, filthy number 24.

frozywozy · July 2016

Zheg wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

If we're doimg clarifications, the sentence was intended as 'closer to a full raid than haxus' and not an implication of the dirty, filthy number 24.

Sorry but if you meant closer to a full raid than Haxus, you gotta put Haxus in your sentence. Just as I should add "crit" to my BoL sentence. Thank you for your comprehension.

Zheg · July 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You have some points that are spot on, and others that aren't so much. Usually when haxus goes to nikel it's because they want to farm they and don't have the horde with them. If you do see a large group, that's usually invictus who will run closer to a full raid. When red is pushing a keep and haxus is present, then yes, they embed themselves in the horde and try to bomb when others are engaged with the horde.

Just popping in to clear this up. We never run full raids, we have a group cap of 16 that only fills up once or twice a week.

If we're doimg clarifications, the sentence was intended as 'closer to a full raid than haxus' and not an implication of the dirty, filthy number 24.

Sorry but if you meant closer to a full raid than Haxus, you gotta put Haxus in your sentence. Just as I should add "crit" to my BoL sentence. Thank you for your comprehension.

Yeah, except you left out clarifications on all of your numbers until you were backed into a corner. Either way, 16 is closer to a full raid of 24 because its bigger than 12. Numbers yo. I clarified out of politeness, not correctness.

Francescolg · July 2016

Back to topic
I asked ZOS in July 2014 to put root and snare on an immunity timer. I bet, they won't do so, if they haven't done it for 2 years..

Despite this, some wrong statements have been done here!

1. 20m distance is nowhere that much distance.. I ran a bombard Templar in summer 2014 and this skill is OK as it is. No nurf is needed! People who claim 20m is too far away are drama queens.

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

3. Organized raids who use bombard effectively HAVE MORE SKILL THEN YOU (yes you, reader!). In Daoc (2002) the better pvp group was the one, who knew how to CC and, sometimes battles were won only by the correct use of CC, as we did in a group with Erson (EU pvp 2014) and DA (when they were kind and did LFM in the zone chat, unfortunately this time has passed). Back to 2002, In DAOC it was the group leader and the healers, who where responsible for CC and anti-CC. Skills like bombard where what made out the strength of the best pvp group.
4. Forgive me that I mention DAOC. I do so because, at that time, the complaints vs. CC were legit because we had no break-free at all.
5. Root should be considered hard-cc, problem solved!!

Jules · July 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

2. If you nurf bombard, you have to nurf Caltrops too, as it is the same thing!! (also distance, duration, etc.etc.). Many skilled players know this very well.. (they just don't open their mouth) Also some GTAE would be nursed, and so on!

Huge difference: cost.
Bombard is spammable and sustainable, caltrops is not.

heystreethawk · July 2016

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

I'd put forward that Red has seen very little resistance from AD for quite a while. It's been commen practice to simply swarm Alessia with 2 raids and then stack everyone north. AD must seem like a gigantic Zerg now that EP actually has to have groups in different locations instead all stacked up in one spot.

And yeah, I totally stack attacked with Fantasia, probably 1-2 times a night? 90% of the time we took different sides of the map because we know stacking everyone up in one spot is how you lose territory. Biggest AD Zerg Ive seen in ages formed up this last campaign... To take back the our scroll. The horror. Shouldn't have taken it at 5am

Steve's key point bears repeating: if our methodology as a faction was just to clump up and stack attack everything like it was Hardhome 24/7, we wouldn't have won the campaign. What would have happened, in that scenario, is that we'd flip one thing, lose the thing behind us, restack to recapture the thing we just lost, immediately lose the thing we'd taken right before that, etc etc. Considering that the campaign was competitive on all three sides, the two keeps we'd be the most likely to bop between in this fictionalized eternal limbo would be Roe and Alessia; we'd never wind up gaining anything.

In addition to that, there's the point to consider whereby if we did just stack up wherever we went, we probably wouldn't ever be able to get a good night's sleep on account of having extremely dissatisfying victories 90% of the time and our skin would be grey and brittle akin to parchment. Even if you do have an unyielding moral opposition to groups larger than 16 people, there's no way you don't at least notice that VE uses their groups to go after the big fish, and hopefully people notice the same about us.

It wouldn't be fun to stack attack with that sort of regularity, because in most fights you have at least the chance of winning on your own, in the fights where you have no chance you still have to weigh out the importance of taking or defending a keep vs. the other friendly guild taking or defending something on the other side of the map, and vastly outnumbering your opponents in PvP is about as fun as dropping an ultimate on a sunbathing Horker in PvE. The process of winning has to be fun, it has to make you feel good about your efforts, or it's not even worth doing.

As such, we saved our stack attacks for either extremely tough takes or skin-o-teeth defenses, in which we were facing 2-3 raids of the opposition. 60-70 AD in one spot is an exaggeration, straight up, save for a rare situation like a massive endless Alessia defense against comparable numbers, wherein you have 32-40 players wearing VE and Fantasia tabards, and 30 more players who decided on their own to trot up and defend the keep because 1) it's Alessia and 2) it's flagged.

On the flip side, however, 2-3 raids of Pact Militia is not an exaggeration! That's not a judgment call, and I don't imagine all the raids are filled up all of the time, but multiple raids is just how they roll; I'm not going to complain about it, or lecture anyone about how they should play the game, but I'm also not going to feel bad for teaming up with another guild for an epic stack attack when I'm looking down from the postern wall onto a siege line of 50 furious Nords determined to seize the secret stash of priceless Renaissance era paintings that Queen Ayrenn has hidden in the basement of Castle Alessia. Something less important than that on the line? Fantasia is happy to fling ourselves into 50 furious Nords like a pack of shrieking suicidal dervishes, NP. We'll hold them up at Drakelowe for 45 minutes and wipe at the end if it keeps our own beautiful country safe.

It's all about context, is the idea.

Satiar · July 2016

heystreethawk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Pfft; I was wrong... 20 is clearly not a zerg like 24 is *grin*

20 man is a "small man group" now.

When you wiped to us this month as we ran significantly smaller groups, did it hit you in the feels or something? Why such salt? Is this like ... a peeing on a tree territory thing? Are you angry that I booted you from the ash gate all those times or something?

Run a 24 man group, "VE zergs!"

Run between 10-16 man groups, "VE has multiple raids!"

Do you ever take a step back and realize how silly you sound at times?

Ok Zheg, I have seen you say this at least 10times the past week. "WE now run smaller groups" or "VE runs 16-18 nowadays" but all I can see at primetime is Vehemence, Fantasia, Dominion Knights, Arcane Council , Children of Hircine all stack together creating a mega zerg of 60-70 who swarm to any flagged objective and lag the server to death.

I'm not saying it's all you do, you certainly have your own fights but in the most part, it's what we see from AD lately. I'm also not saying that EP doesn't stack with other guilds. Each faction seems to zerg more nowadays. I can't wait for the new town captures. Hopefuly that will help spread guilds out.

I'd put forward that Red has seen very little resistance from AD for quite a while. It's been commen practice to simply swarm Alessia with 2 raids and then stack everyone north. AD must seem like a gigantic Zerg now that EP actually has to have groups in different locations instead all stacked up in one spot.

And yeah, I totally stack attacked with Fantasia, probably 1-2 times a night? 90% of the time we took different sides of the map because we know stacking everyone up in one spot is how you lose territory. Biggest AD Zerg Ive seen in ages formed up this last campaign... To take back the our scroll. The horror. Shouldn't have taken it at 5am

Steve's key point bears repeating: if our methodology as a faction was just to clump up and stack attack everything like it was Hardhome 24/7, we wouldn't have won the campaign. What would have happened, in that scenario, is that we'd flip one thing, lose the thing behind us, restack to recapture the thing we just lost, immediately lose the thing we'd taken right before that, etc etc. Considering that the campaign was competitive on all three sides, the two keeps we'd be the most likely to bop between in this fictionalized eternal limbo would be Roe and Alessia; we'd never wind up gaining anything.

In addition to that, there's the point to consider whereby if we did just stack up wherever we went, we probably wouldn't ever be able to get a good night's sleep on account of having extremely dissatisfying victories 90% of the time and our skin would be grey and brittle akin to parchment. Even if you do have an unyielding moral opposition to groups larger than 16 people, there's no way you don't at least notice that VE uses their groups to go after the big fish, and hopefully people notice the same about us.

It wouldn't be fun to stack attack with that sort of regularity, because in most fights you have at least the chance of winning on your own, in the fights where you have no chance you still have to weigh out the importance of taking or defending a keep vs. the other friendly guild taking or defending something on the other side of the map, and vastly outnumbering your opponents in PvP is about as fun as dropping an ultimate on a sunbathing Horker in PvE. The process of winning has to be fun, it has to make you feel good about your efforts, or it's not even worth doing.

As such, we saved our stack attacks for either extremely tough takes or skin-o-teeth defenses, in which we were facing 2-3 raids of the opposition. 60-70 AD in one spot is an exaggeration, straight up, save for a rare situation like a massive endless Alessia defense against comparable numbers, wherein you have 32-40 players wearing VE and Fantasia tabards, and 30 more players who decided on their own to trot up and defend the keep because 1) it's Alessia and 2) it's flagged.

On the flip side, however, 2-3 raids of Pact Militia is not an exaggeration! That's not a judgment call, and I don't imagine all the raids are filled up all of the time, but multiple raids is just how they roll; I'm not going to complain about it, or lecture anyone about how they should play the game, but I'm also not going to feel bad for teaming up with another guild for an epic stack attack when I'm looking down from the postern wall onto a siege line of 50 furious Nords determined to seize the secret stash of priceless Renaissance era paintings that Queen Ayrenn has hidden in the basement of Castle Alessia. Something less important than that on the line? Fantasia is happy to fling ourselves into 50 furious Nords like a pack of shrieking suicidal dervishes, NP. We'll hold them up at Drakelowe for 45 minutes and wipe at the end if it keeps our own beautiful country safe.

It's all about context, is the idea.

This was arguably why EP was insanely OP back in the Red Council days. Although we could and did frequently stack up for big fights, we just had multiple competent groups communicating and rotating around the map. If Havoc was north we could take south, if we were held at Bleakers a guild would reinforce it or bypass to Aleswell. To me that time, though it ended in overkill and desolation, was why I bought this game: a faction made up of multiple Guilds, allied and working together to win. It was amazing. Makes me sad to see what it's come to now.

Navitas · July 2016

Ok well I feel like the orignal purpose of this thread (purge needs a buff to counter act the bombard and massive amount of debuffs in game right now with poisons is essentially what it came down to) has been derailed into a back and forth ego contest here. I appreciate all the replies and those of you that participated in actively putting forth suggestions and ideas to make pvp more balanced.