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For all the sorcs who think they've been nerfed
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I play both mag & stam sorc, pvp only tho.
After hearing a lot of feedback from excellent players and building my own opinion via playing, I came to the conclusion that the "only" real new problems for DB Mag sorcs in pvp are higher ressource cost (= less damage output) and sluggish to break/long lasting cc`s (fear, reverb, etc.) exploiting the short shield timer, especially in mid/high ping situations.
Top Magsorcs are mostly able to play around those newly introduced weaknesses and dont feel these nerfs are holding them back all too much. Applying basic balancing rules would imply that the class is still totally viable, it`s just that the skill floor was raised quite a bit and theres still room for all struggling Magsorcs to slowly adapt improve their skills without adjusting the numbers.
Since ESO isn`t a competetive game and most players are not very talented in controlling their characters I`d advocate an increase of about 2 seconds to the shield timers for the sake of artificially boosting their learning process and to compensate those nasty cc`s incoming.
Since Magsorc burst potential was far too high in previous patches I`m still torn on whether help is needed or a slight cost decrease across the board would be totally sufficient. What I`m trying to say is, that I think very minor changes to dmg related mechanics can have already huge effects.
I.e.: making curse unblockable again would change a lot by itself, in my honest opinion. Sorcs were able to (over)compensate for the blockable curse with DB and Detonation so far, not anymore. I think thats one of the core issues, since unblokcable curse opened up a very dangerous burst window every 4 seconds which is just not existant anymore.
BR
I sat down and thought about it, and you're right.
1. A two second shield boost would help lower the skill floor for PVE and PVP. You're right here, six second only works 'fine' when you animation cancel everything (sort of an L2P issue, but the gameplay Some people have a hard time with that, me included, but I still do it. Because it's what works).
2. Magicka cost reduction to a few abilities would help as well. High Sustain/Seducer builds are working GREAT this patch, but spell damage builds are a thing of the past (unless you're an overload spammer). They could add another 3-4% in passives (1/2/4%) and replace one of the many garbage ones.
It wouldn't fix everything (toggles, bad pets) but it might bring some people back to playing the class. They have to recognize that Magicka sorcs are sort of broken, while Stam sorcs are doing fine.
Edited by Minalan on June 28, 2016 6:42PM0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
1 -
Serenityx✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I play both mag & stam sorc, pvp only tho.
After hearing a lot of feedback from excellent players and building my own opinion via playing, I came to the conclusion that the "only" real new problems for DB Mag sorcs in pvp are higher ressource cost (= less damage output) and sluggish to break/long lasting cc`s (fear, reverb, etc.) exploiting the short shield timer, especially in mid/high ping situations.
Top Magsorcs are mostly able to play around those newly introduced weaknesses and dont feel these nerfs are holding them back all too much. Applying basic balancing rules would imply that the class is still totally viable, it`s just that the skill floor was raised quite a bit and theres still room for all struggling Magsorcs to slowly adapt improve their skills without adjusting the numbers.
Since ESO isn`t a competetive game and most players are not very talented in controlling their characters I`d advocate an increase of about 2 seconds to the shield timers for the sake of artificially boosting their learning process and to compensate those nasty cc`s incoming.
Since Magsorc burst potential was far too high in previous patches I`m still torn on whether help is needed or a slight cost decrease across the board would be totally sufficient. What I`m trying to say is, that I think very minor changes to dmg related mechanics can have already huge effects.
I.e.: making curse unblockable again would change a lot by itself, in my honest opinion. Sorcs were able to (over)compensate for the blockable curse with DB and Detonation so far, not anymore. I think thats one of the core issues, since unblokcable curse opened up a very dangerous burst window every 4 seconds which is just not existant anymore.
BR
I agree with this. The resource costs and sluggish cc break compound the short ward duration. The 6s ward I could easily deal with if I could cc break on time (or even weapon swap on time). I've gone vamp and 1x bloodspawn to get 900 stam regen so I never run out of stam, but I still die when cc'd even though I'm spamming break free. I have 20k resitances and 1600 crit resistance. Netcode will never be fixed so I agree that a slight increase to ward duration would help.Edited by FriedEggSandwich on June 28, 2016 7:09PMPC | EU0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
I'm currently finding small group easier than duelling, but that's because I'm out of practice with duels and I haven't build for magicka sustain yet (can't afford to atm). I wouldn't exactly call 5x kags, 3x willpower, 2x arch mage and 1x bloodspawn a spell damage build though
I'm saving up for lich but until then I feel like I'm running oom unnecessarily quickly. Does my build sound like glass canon?
Edit: I've always preferred to build so I can fight back to back without taking a break to regen. My pre-DB build allowed me to do that, not anymore. This is what upsets me the most; pre-DB I only ever used 1 ward anyway so I'm used to refreshing it every 6s, I'm fine with that change in no-lag situations. But why the skill cost increases? Zos why?
Edited by FriedEggSandwich on June 28, 2016 7:28PMPC | EU0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is my shield fix suggestion for Hardened Ward:
"While active, you are immune to CC"
/runs and hides1 -
incite✭✭✭✭non mag sorcs commenting mag sorcs aren't nerfed at all
like a fat guy at mcdonalds saying there is no hunger in the world
the ignorance :-)PC EU
Check your CMX
solo/small scale pvp
Emphys
Sorcerer (AR 50)
Nightblade (AR 50)
Dragonknight (AR 37)
Arcanist (AR 15)
Played since release until 2019
Back since February 20243 -
Xundiin✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
No man, I play Xbox NA and have guested 3 or so campaigns since DB while homed in Scourge for the past 2-3 months on EP. There has been a strong presence(/normal amount) of mag sorcs in each campaign Ive guested and plenty in scourge.
I dont see the point in implying that mag sorcs aren't competitive post DB. Tbh the only difference Ive noticed about them (the ones who are very good) is they arent unkillable when 1vXing.
So let me get this straight, your whole argument is based off of how many magsorcs you see running around on a platform that has no reliable way to gauge class/build performance other than "did it die before I died?"
You sir, haven't a clue what you are talking about. Most of the people that are advocating for sorcs in DPS, PVE, and PVP all play PC.... where we have meters and tools to not only test builds functionality but also viability of builds/classes with any given number of choices at our hands.
if the class was truely as OP as you keep claiming... or that the so called buffs we got where such a boon..... the PC crowd that MAIN sorcs and PLAY sorcs every day when they log in would not be asking for Wrobel and ZOS to redo the entire class.
You want to know why the stamsorc is doing so well..... they got the same buffs as Stamplars, StamDKs, oh and Stamblades. They got a very minor buff in the actual class trees. in fact if I go back and look at the buffs each class got... NB's got more buffs to it than any other class.... and it's a class that doesn't need a lot of buffs to begin with. It's synergy in passives and abilities (when they work and aren't broken) are amazing. Better than Sorc, DK's, and possibly Templars.#SavePlayer12 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
I'm currently finding small group easier than duelling, but that's because I'm out of practice with duels and I haven't build for magicka sustain yet (can't afford to atm). I wouldn't exactly call 5x kags, 3x willpower, 2x arch mage and 1x bloodspawn a spell damage build though I'm saving up for lich but until then I feel like I'm running oom unnecessarily quickly. Does my build sound like glass canon?
Edit: I've always preferred to build so I can fight back to back without taking a break to regen. My pre-DB build allowed me to do that, not anymore. This is what upsets me the most; pre-DB I only ever used 1 ward anyway so I'm used to refreshing it every 6s, I'm fine with that change in no-lag situations. But why the skill cost increases? Zos why?
@FriedEggSandwich
I had something close to your your setup. An easy and poor man's fix for your regen, just swap out all of your spell damage enchants on the willpower jewelry to lower Magicka cost. All three preferably, but two at least. Then replace the blood spawn piece with a Kena shoulder or head if you can, that gives about one of those jewelry pieces worth of damage back. Keep the archmage.
Three reduce costs glyphs will give you about the same sustain as a seducer/Magnus build. The reduced spell damage hurts, but you're only trading out a couple of hundred points, at the cost of a couple of Kuta runes. The goal is 2.8-3K spell damage buffed, you get a campaign scroll and it should help you reach that.
As for money, I sold all of my campaign reward stuff and bought all of the dreugh wax and temper I needed. Winning the campaign gave me about 40K cash (between all three mails). Gold reward jewelry sells for a ton of money (fury AND VD here). I had also farmed raw mats in Craglorn for a couple of days and refined a bunch of my own gold mats. I had 2-3 pieces worth of dreugh wax to start from farming leather from mobs and void bloom.
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys. Problem is, competent players know how to deal with overload and they will kill you. For those you really need the sustain build to grind out the full resource war.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/239336/thelon-magicka-sorc-pvp-dark-brotherhood/p2
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Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
✭[
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys.
I dont use Energy Overload for sustain. I'm a Breton with 5 seducer, 2 engine guardian and 1 spell cost reduction jewelry enchant. And I chain chug pots0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
The issue is that:
1. The skill floor is too high for most to succeed. To win with 6 second shields, you need to animation cancel everything. Casting shield and waiting for the animation to finish gives you 5 seconds. Two attacks without animation cancelling and it's over. The twitch gameplay isn't an option, it's a necessity. And frankly with all of the bar swapping and cancelling everything, it's not that much fun. Make a mistake? Forget to cancel something? Lose your rhythm? You're going to die.
2. It's not nearly as competitive against extremely skilled players. If you're not doing everything in (1) above, you're going to be farmed.
The class skill floor doesn't have to go down to say, Templar level (they sort of deserve that barb). But a couple of quality of life improvements would help immensely.
2 -
Ex_Draconis✭✭I play my sorc a lot (not my main) and this is what I have noticed since the change.
All I have ever used was one shield and I already had the tendency to overcast it, so I didn't think the change would affect me much. That being said it has; now to be fair I can achieve the same survivability but I have to work a lot harder at it and it does have some negative drawbacks which are significant.
First, I have noticed a significant drop in dps as I have to work my shield into my rotation A LOT which is where the dps loss comes from. Second, and what is most concerning to me is the new shield duration making a huge chunk of my CP obsolete.
I'll explain; with the sorc (no pets build) lacking a lot of self heals we depend on our shields for survivability, which appears to be by design. Now with the implementation of CP we are able to tailor our builds for specific strengths based upon build and play style which again is by design. So naturally being a sorc depending on shields we would put points into bastion which I have done (a lot) making my shield much stronger, again working as intended. But now with the change my shield goes down way before it can take even close to the amount of damage it was designed to take (with CP) and thereby making a huge chunk of my CP obsolete. Now I can't imagine this was intended so that leaves me to think its a negative consequence of a change that doesn't seem to have been well thought out.
The last thing although not as concerning is I have noticed I use a lot more resources for the same style of play, which is annoying but manageable. The shield thing though is a little more difficult to solve because there is nowhere else for me to put those CP that will provide me with any real benefit. So for the foreseeable future those hard earned CP are just a write off. But I have to say (sorry sorcs) that I still manage just as fine as I did before, I just have to work a little harder at it.Edited by Ex_Draconis on June 28, 2016 11:42PMBy forge and fire we prep for war
With war in our eyes we're ready to die
With death in hand we bear our blades
By Stendarr's blade we will settle the score1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭[
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys.
I dont use Energy Overload for sustain. I'm a Breton with 5 seducer, 2 engine guardian and 1 spell cost reduction jewelry enchant. And I chain chug pots
Thanks, I asked you this in the other thread. I we curious what sets you were using. I'm also not criticizing your method, I think it's awesome how many people die to your overload. XD
My luck, I tend to run into experienced players that know exactly how to deal with overload spam with block and dodge roll. It doesnt work as well for my playstyle. If I have overload, I always try to save up ultimate instead of blowing it constantly to kill the other guy. It's soo good against nightblades though!0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
I'm currently finding small group easier than duelling, but that's because I'm out of practice with duels and I haven't build for magicka sustain yet (can't afford to atm). I wouldn't exactly call 5x kags, 3x willpower, 2x arch mage and 1x bloodspawn a spell damage build though I'm saving up for lich but until then I feel like I'm running oom unnecessarily quickly. Does my build sound like glass canon?
Edit: I've always preferred to build so I can fight back to back without taking a break to regen. My pre-DB build allowed me to do that, not anymore. This is what upsets me the most; pre-DB I only ever used 1 ward anyway so I'm used to refreshing it every 6s, I'm fine with that change in no-lag situations. But why the skill cost increases? Zos why?
@FriedEggSandwich
I had something close to your your setup. An easy and poor man's fix for your regen, just swap out all of your spell damage enchants on the willpower jewelry to lower Magicka cost. All three preferably, but two at least. Then replace the blood spawn piece with a Kena shoulder or head if you can, that gives about one of those jewelry pieces worth of damage back. Keep the archmage.
Three reduce costs glyphs will give you about the same sustain as a seducer/Magnus build. The reduced spell damage hurts, but you're only trading out a couple of hundred points, at the cost of a couple of Kuta runes. The goal is 2.8-3K spell damage buffed, you get a campaign scroll and it should help you reach that.
As for money, I sold all of my campaign reward stuff and bought all of the dreugh wax and temper I needed. Winning the campaign gave me about 40K cash (between all three mails). Gold reward jewelry sells for a ton of money (fury AND VD here). I had also farmed raw mats in Craglorn for a couple of days and refined a bunch of my own gold mats. I had 2-3 pieces worth of dreugh wax to start from farming leather from mobs and void bloom.
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys. Problem is, competent players know how to deal with overload and they will kill you. For those you really need the sustain build to grind out the full resource war.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/239336/thelon-magicka-sorc-pvp-dark-brotherhood/p2
@Minalan
Hey thanks man (assuming you're a guy, apologies if not), I appreciate that. I have one cost reduction glyph but the other 2 are spell damage so you're right; switching those up would be a cheap way to fix my build. It's still a little disheartening to lose spell dmg though when I don't even stack that much imo (3k buffed with 36k mag cos 6x impen), I guess the ability to stack spell pen this patch might mitigate it. I hate overload cheese so wouldn't go that route. Cheers, appreciate your input
PC | EU0 -
SahrotRein✭✭✭✭I don't mind the shield duration nerf, even though 8-10s would be just perfect, it only takes time to get used to it, maybe put it on primary bar for what it's worth.
But what is the main concern is Power Surge. The heal is almost non-existent and being damaged constantly makes it not possible to keep the heals up to heal you efficiently. Even my 71% crit chance doesn't soften the nerf by critting often.Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.- A Dominion of peace. The fair and just rule of Tamriel0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
I'm currently finding small group easier than duelling, but that's because I'm out of practice with duels and I haven't build for magicka sustain yet (can't afford to atm). I wouldn't exactly call 5x kags, 3x willpower, 2x arch mage and 1x bloodspawn a spell damage build though I'm saving up for lich but until then I feel like I'm running oom unnecessarily quickly. Does my build sound like glass canon?
Edit: I've always preferred to build so I can fight back to back without taking a break to regen. My pre-DB build allowed me to do that, not anymore. This is what upsets me the most; pre-DB I only ever used 1 ward anyway so I'm used to refreshing it every 6s, I'm fine with that change in no-lag situations. But why the skill cost increases? Zos why?
@FriedEggSandwich
I had something close to your your setup. An easy and poor man's fix for your regen, just swap out all of your spell damage enchants on the willpower jewelry to lower Magicka cost. All three preferably, but two at least. Then replace the blood spawn piece with a Kena shoulder or head if you can, that gives about one of those jewelry pieces worth of damage back. Keep the archmage.
Three reduce costs glyphs will give you about the same sustain as a seducer/Magnus build. The reduced spell damage hurts, but you're only trading out a couple of hundred points, at the cost of a couple of Kuta runes. The goal is 2.8-3K spell damage buffed, you get a campaign scroll and it should help you reach that.
As for money, I sold all of my campaign reward stuff and bought all of the dreugh wax and temper I needed. Winning the campaign gave me about 40K cash (between all three mails). Gold reward jewelry sells for a ton of money (fury AND VD here). I had also farmed raw mats in Craglorn for a couple of days and refined a bunch of my own gold mats. I had 2-3 pieces worth of dreugh wax to start from farming leather from mobs and void bloom.
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys. Problem is, competent players know how to deal with overload and they will kill you. For those you really need the sustain build to grind out the full resource war.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/239336/thelon-magicka-sorc-pvp-dark-brotherhood/p2
@Minalan
Hey thanks man (assuming you're a guy, apologies if not), I appreciate that. I have one cost reduction glyph but the other 2 are spell damage so you're right; switching those up would be a cheap way to fix my build. It's still a little disheartening to lose spell dmg though when I don't even stack that much imo (3k buffed with 36k mag cos 6x impen), I guess the ability to stack spell pen this patch might mitigate it. I hate overload cheese so wouldn't go that route. Cheers, appreciate your input
I'm running about 3K buffed with the scroll and the seducer/Magnus stuff. That gives me enough regen to run all three spell damage enchants.
A Kena shoulder or helmet would mitigate that damage loss some, but you'll lose the extra health from bloodspawn (though you get to keep 1K from Kags). It's totally worth the trade. It should be up for sale again in a few weeks, or just get it in a chest.
As for spell damage being low, you'll lose 1,000 or so PVP frags damage, but you can cast so many more.
Boost Magicka! I'd also consider dropping Impen on three large pieces for infused, and make up for it with 30 points of CP into crit reduction that you drop from bastion. Bastion isn't worth more than say, 60 points or so on a six second shield.
I'd also try to push all my lazy PVE hating Magicka sorc friends to max the undaunted passive. That alone is worth 2K Magicka and a boost to 38K on your setup without changing anything other than 5/1/1. That is worth almost 200 spell damage. The grind sucks, but it's worth it.
PS: don't forget to run the atronach mundus.
0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
I'm currently finding small group easier than duelling, but that's because I'm out of practice with duels and I haven't build for magicka sustain yet (can't afford to atm). I wouldn't exactly call 5x kags, 3x willpower, 2x arch mage and 1x bloodspawn a spell damage build though I'm saving up for lich but until then I feel like I'm running oom unnecessarily quickly. Does my build sound like glass canon?
Edit: I've always preferred to build so I can fight back to back without taking a break to regen. My pre-DB build allowed me to do that, not anymore. This is what upsets me the most; pre-DB I only ever used 1 ward anyway so I'm used to refreshing it every 6s, I'm fine with that change in no-lag situations. But why the skill cost increases? Zos why?
@FriedEggSandwich
I had something close to your your setup. An easy and poor man's fix for your regen, just swap out all of your spell damage enchants on the willpower jewelry to lower Magicka cost. All three preferably, but two at least. Then replace the blood spawn piece with a Kena shoulder or head if you can, that gives about one of those jewelry pieces worth of damage back. Keep the archmage.
Three reduce costs glyphs will give you about the same sustain as a seducer/Magnus build. The reduced spell damage hurts, but you're only trading out a couple of hundred points, at the cost of a couple of Kuta runes. The goal is 2.8-3K spell damage buffed, you get a campaign scroll and it should help you reach that.
As for money, I sold all of my campaign reward stuff and bought all of the dreugh wax and temper I needed. Winning the campaign gave me about 40K cash (between all three mails). Gold reward jewelry sells for a ton of money (fury AND VD here). I had also farmed raw mats in Craglorn for a couple of days and refined a bunch of my own gold mats. I had 2-3 pieces worth of dreugh wax to start from farming leather from mobs and void bloom.
Alternately, you can keep your high spell damage build and troll the *** out of people with energy overload for sustain like the ninja kitty guys. Problem is, competent players know how to deal with overload and they will kill you. For those you really need the sustain build to grind out the full resource war.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/239336/thelon-magicka-sorc-pvp-dark-brotherhood/p2
@Minalan
Hey thanks man (assuming you're a guy, apologies if not), I appreciate that. I have one cost reduction glyph but the other 2 are spell damage so you're right; switching those up would be a cheap way to fix my build. It's still a little disheartening to lose spell dmg though when I don't even stack that much imo (3k buffed with 36k mag cos 6x impen), I guess the ability to stack spell pen this patch might mitigate it. I hate overload cheese so wouldn't go that route. Cheers, appreciate your input
I'm running about 3K buffed with the scroll and the seducer/Magnus stuff. That gives me enough regen to run all three spell damage enchants.
A Kena shoulder or helmet would mitigate that damage loss some, but you'll lose the extra health from bloodspawn (though you get to keep 1K from Kags). It's totally worth the trade. It should be up for sale again in a few weeks, or just get it in a chest.
As for spell damage being low, you'll lose 1,000 or so PVP frags damage, but you can cast so many more.
Boost Magicka! I'd also consider dropping Impen on three large pieces for infused, and make up for it with 30 points of CP into crit reduction that you drop from bastion. Bastion isn't worth more than say, 60 points or so on a six second shield.
I'd also try to push all my lazy PVE hating Magicka sorc friends to max the undaunted passive. That alone is worth 2K Magicka and a boost to 38K on your setup without changing anything other than 5/1/1. That is worth almost 200 spell damage. The grind sucks, but it's worth it.
PS: don't forget to run the atronach mundus.
Good suggestions, thanks. I love impen though, it really is so noticeable how much more survivable it makes you. I have 75cp in bastion cos I decided I wanted the 75pt passive from that tree. I have kena and I do run atro so I'll play around a bit. I can't grind undaunted, I don't have anyone to do it with and I don't enjoy pve enough to pug with pve elitists. To be fair I probably don't need the 1 piece blood spawn, it just allows me to dodge roll more, which is nice.PC | EU0 -
Serenityx✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
To be fair, you see many more of our kind Zerg surfing rather than solo or small group.
This is true as well, I wonder if the players who have been more vocal here on this matter are the ones who spend more of their time dueling/1vXing. It seems if anything they would be the ones feeling the lessened shield duration opposed to those zerging down on keeps and running with larger groups. I could be wrong though. And even if I am right Im not denoting my opinion here that sorcs are still a strong (probably as strong) compared to pre-DB patch.
Another thing I just thought of, consoles have been playing with these updates for a couple weeks less than PC has. Id still be surprised if I see the number of sorcs lessen in the coming weeks on xbox one, but that could be a possibility.
The issue is that:
1. The skill floor is too high for most to succeed. To win with 6 second shields, you need to animation cancel everything. Casting shield and waiting for the animation to finish gives you 5 seconds. Two attacks without animation cancelling and it's over. The twitch gameplay isn't an option, it's a necessity. And frankly with all of the bar swapping and cancelling everything, it's not that much fun. Make a mistake? Forget to cancel something? Lose your rhythm? You're going to die.
2. It's not nearly as competitive against extremely skilled players. If you're not doing everything in (1) above, you're going to be farmed.
The class skill floor doesn't have to go down to say, Templar level (they sort of deserve that barb). But a couple of quality of life improvements would help immensely.
Shields can not be nearly as bad as your describing them to be. Other classes who use stam based heal abilities (vigor and rally are basic examples) face worse issues than a sorc with shields in cyrodil. I get 1.2k crit ticks out of vigor in cyro and have to wait 15+ seconds to get a decent burst heal (5-8k depending on how many healing buffs I have). Vigor also only runs for about as long as a shield yet without absorbing 100% crit damage while I can use other heal abilities for the shield duration. Im sorry, its a joke to say sorcs are bad when you compare how amazing shields are compared to other DPS specced classes. Everything that compliments your shields ALSO COMPLIMENTS YOUR DPS.
Sorry, your playstyle must horrible if you are still as bad as you make it sound with a sorc post DB
0