The Toxic Root Meta in Alliance War / PvP

FENGRUSH · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Why can't things just go back to the way they use to be ? The days when Cyrodil had torchbugs and deer . Purge worked on everyone . People made fun of each other light heartedly and laughed about it instead of taking it seriously all the time . Everyone's so grumpy all the time now .

Fix purge or remove the AOE caps or take the root off bombard please .

They put in a fix for purge last patch I believe.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Why can't things just go back to the way they use to be ? The days when Cyrodil had torchbugs and deer . Purge worked on everyone . People made fun of each other light heartedly and laughed about it instead of taking it seriously all the time . Everyone's so grumpy all the time now .

Fix purge or remove the AOE caps or take the root off bombard please .

They put in a fix for purge last patch I believe.

OH good ! Now I can slot it again . Thanks Lord FENGRUSH !

The_Great_Maldini · June 2016

I'm sorry but roots are really one of the few defenses against:

1) Rock Dancers
2) Mini-Zerg of Debuff Tanks and Templars
3) Perma Roll Dodgers

The problem is that people don't use their brains. If you know Negate exists and will be used and you see a choke point.. maybe you shouldn't ball up? Negate has a limited range. I hate it when people want the game to be dumbed down because they don't want to use strategy and would rather just ball up and zerg.

PosternHouse · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

Stfu, AOE. Go cry some more about Ve being called a Zerg.

Personally, I prefer best guild in the game for the last year and a half, personally

FENGRUSH INC has been the best for more than 1.5years.

At self-promotion in all caps? (ARM was funnier anyways.) Yeah sure. There have been plenty of small group zerg busters that performed better.

ARM was for comedy. FENGRUSH INC has been a long standing organization the covenant has always respected and rallied behind. Your blasphemy shows that you are either not AOE BBQ or you have been fully indoctrinated into a hate cult that looks down on all small group players unable or unwilling to form trial sized groups or larger.

You accused 20 people of causing the lag. That's stupid as hell. You're right we look down on you ... you say things about us that are entirely divorced from reality.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

K-hole will not save you from necessary atonement.

Yeah, I need atonement for valuing teamwork in a team game. Someone get me a priest.

A small-sized VE group preparing to breach the inner keep!

Asgari · June 2016

Give bombard a cast time of like .03 or increase its cost significantly.

Problem solved.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Give bombard a cast time of like .03 or increase its cost significantly.

Problem solved.

Stop it with the cast time nonsense, Princess. Go with the cost increase!

IxSTALKERxI · June 2016

You could make the skill interactive like blade cloak. I think the interactive stuff is pretty cool.

Eg. Does aoe damage but has no root. If activated a second time roots the enemy. Or use 2 light attacks to turn it into a skill that roots people?

Or you can make snare immunity abilities more practical to use on all builds mag and stam.

ZOS_DaryaK · June 2016

We've removed a number of posts that were personal attacks or otherwise not contributing to the topic of this conversation. If you can't remain civil, refrain from commenting.

_Chaos · June 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Give bombard a cast time of like .03 or increase its cost significantly.

Problem solved.

That only hurts the small groups though, we're talking solely about the perma root from mega zergs. With 15 players on the outskirts of a fight, cast time nor cost is a factor. Unfortunately we all know they won't revert the rapids change so it won't break on heals/buffs.

The_Great_Maldini · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Give bombard a cast time of like .03 or increase its cost significantly.

Problem solved.

Stop it with the cast time nonsense, Princess. Go with the cost increase!

Yes, make it cost as much as prison for sorcs.

Zheg · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Ok guys this has turned into a "who faces a bigger Zerg?" argument. Everyone- including myself- has acknowledged that bombard in its current state is a problem, I just proposed changes that will keep the skill useful, or create an entirely new melee skill that is stam based and has an aoe root. I say effective in small groups against bigger groups, and then I'm told I'm wrong. Like ok, whatever. My experiences that have actually happened are wrong. People are acting like I don't know what a zerg is. What? We all play the same game- hell I used to run with VE and I still stick up for you guys in zone chat. But don't tell me I'm wrong and then accuse me of not recognizing that different people have different experiences. @Zheg

Jeez snu. Reread your post that i responded to. Your exact words were "how come small groups are the only ones that dont want the root removed". You may have meant something different, you may have clarified later (which is why i dropped it), but at face value those words were far from the reality of current pvp. That specific post WAS wrong and thats what i called out and responded to, sorry im not a mind reader and took your words at face value. It seemed like you had no experience fighting the very groups that people complain about this mechanic favoring (i had never seen you on TF this campaign and we played for hours every night) from the way you were talking and were trying to validate the skill because it works for you even though its endless frustration for the rest of us when its scaled up to the zerg sizes on TF.

You clarified what you meant afterwards, not before, so why are you harping on someone responding to your original words. You explained afterwards and started making more sense, and we're mostly in agreement. So whats the deal?

And yes, id say many agree that its not actually effective against a larger group considering theyre doing the same thing to your small man but with more people spamming it. Its like the forward camp argument, sure there are times it helps the smallman, but a super majority of the time its more beneficial to the side with far larger numbers. I cant believe people would argue the opposite, for bombard or camps.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Ok guys this has turned into a "who faces a bigger Zerg?" argument. Everyone- including myself- has acknowledged that bombard in its current state is a problem, I just proposed changes that will keep the skill useful, or create an entirely new melee skill that is stam based and has an aoe root. I say effective in small groups against bigger groups, and then I'm told I'm wrong. Like ok, whatever. My experiences that have actually happened are wrong. People are acting like I don't know what a zerg is. What? We all play the same game- hell I used to run with VE and I still stick up for you guys in zone chat. But don't tell me I'm wrong and then accuse me of not recognizing that different people have different experiences. @Zheg

Jeez snu. Reread your post that i responded to. Your exact words were "how come small groups are the only ones that dont want the root removed". You may have meant something different, you may have clarified later (which is why i dropped it), but at face value those words were far from the reality of current pvp. That specific post WAS wrong and thats what i called out and responded to, sorry im not a mind reader and took your words at face value. It seemed like you had no experience fighting the very groups that people complain about this mechanic favoring (i had never seen you on TF this campaign and we played for hours every night) from the way you were talking and were trying to validate the skill because it works for you even though its endless frustration for the rest of us when its scaled up to the zerg sizes on TF.

You clarified what you meant afterwards, not before, so why are you harping on someone responding to your original words. You explained afterwards and started making more sense, and we're mostly in agreement. So whats the deal?

And yes, id say many agree that its not actually effective against a larger group considering theyre doing the same thing to your small man but with more people spamming it. Its like the forward camp argument, sure there are times it helps the smallman, but a super majority of the time its more beneficial to the side with far larger numbers. I cant believe people would argue the opposite, for bombard or camps.

Dude that was forever ago. We've already said our experiences are different and we'll have to agree to disagree. The thread is back on topic now.

KenaPKK · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

No. People are complaining that they run metric arseloads of people.

And yeah because it's the 20 VE breaking the server, not the 2+ stacked blue raids or 3+ stacked red raids. Whatever you say man. You're going to come to TF and get walked down by 72 twanging Pact derps and whine live for your viewers' pleasure for 10 minutes straight is more likely.

Id recommend removing AOE caps - but youd tell me removing AOE caps is not needed this patch anymore!

Removing the AOE caps is the only rational way to effect large groups that become immune to ground effects . It also means large groups will probably start running a lot of ground effects too . Seems like it's always a double edged sword and numbers always win .

I disagree. Removing AoE caps cannot negatively impact a small group or a spread group in a significant way because they already take damage as if there were no AoE caps. However, large and dense groups take exponentially less damage the larger their groups become. Removing or raising the AoE caps is one of the few changes that ZOS can make which objectively nerfs groups based on size without backfiring on smaller groups.

But they won't remove them, so this discussion is unfortunately a moot point.

We need fewer snares in the game overall, better purges, reverted nerfs to rapids, and applying outright immobilizes, roots, and hard ccs needs risk incorporated, as @Ghost-Shot pointed out. Adding a root to Cleave and removing the root from Bombard was a good idea.

@Zheg has been beating this horse to death for months now. I am disappointed that these patch notes do not address the issue...

KenaPKK · June 2016

Haderus is the anti-meta. Stay away please, or at least don't bring your bombard with you. The pugs there haven't learned what true Bombard spam is...yet...and small groups function well without it.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

If by better rapids you mean a 24 man group running at full speed spamming BoL then I disagree.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Haderus is the anti-meta. Stay away please, or at least don't bring your bombard with you. The pugs there haven't learned what true Bombard spam is...yet...and small groups function well without it.

If you think that you havent been fighting much at primetime! Megaburn zergs are an exceptional because theyre all templars rotating defensive ults and beams.

Zheg · June 2016

We dont even need a full reversion of the rapids nerf. A 2 second immunity if you arent casting dmg skills would work too, and still bring down the raw mobility groups had prior to TG.

Fix the purge bug, bring the cost in line with the numbers of debuffs in pvp and the current cap of 6.

Aoe caps should be removed, but as we've said in other threads, its less impactful in the current meta because the megazerg is typically far more spread than they used to be.

Banners, veil, and nova need to be buffed to be in the same league as negate (both in terms of cost and utility).

Give QOL buffs to mag DK and stam sorc to even out the class playing field.

Stop people from spamming camps and zombie hording their way to victory when they should have lost.

Remove Dticks and last emp keep BS.

THIS is a meta id like to play in.

HoloYoitsu · June 2016

Small group players saying they need Bombard to fight against bigger numbers. That's nice and all, but since we should all be logical adults in here, can we please use our critical thinking abilities and extend the idea of "Bombard is a powerful force multiplier that enables smaller groups to take on more numbers", and apply that to "What if there's 2+ raids worth of people zergging around with ~20 of them just spamming Bombard?"

Because that is what THORNBLADE has been literally every single day since TG patch hit.

Here are some helpful hints:

Why do you think almost all the smallmans play on Haderus now?
Why do those smallman players express relief that the pugs on Haderus have not learned the mindless Bombard spam meta?
Why do you think, given the extreme effectiveness you find Bombard to have in the hands of your smallman groups, that however, it's just fine and peachy in the hands of the zerg hoard?

Hektik_V · June 2016

Purge needs a serious buff. As it stands right now with poisons, roots, status effects, snares, heal debuffs, health debuffs, minor maim, mark target (which by itself is two purges) and DoT's the reality that purge only removes two of those effects (possibly not even the right target with the purge targeting bug) is a travesty.

Oh you wanted to purge off this cold stone treb ticking on you for 6k a second? Let's purge that mark instead.

Satiar · June 2016

Hektik_V wrote: »

Purge needs a serious buff. As it stands right now with poisons, roots, status effects, snares, heal debuffs, health debuffs, minor maim, mark target (which by itself is two purges) and DoT's the reality that purge only removes two of those effects (possibly not even the right target with the purge targeting bug) is a travesty.

Oh you wanted to purge off this cold stone treb ticking on you for 6k a second? Let's purge that mark instead.

Pretty much. It's sooooooo stupid how it is now, nerfed and broken, with poisons and siege and such stronger than ever.

Navitas · June 2016

Hektik_V wrote: »

Purge needs a serious buff. As it stands right now with poisons, roots, status effects, snares, heal debuffs, health debuffs, minor maim, mark target (which by itself is two purges) and DoT's the reality that purge only removes two of those effects (possibly not even the right target with the purge targeting bug) is a travesty.

Oh you wanted to purge off this cold stone treb ticking on you for 6k a second? Let's purge that mark instead.

Basically comes down to this. Purge needs some kind of change to actually cleanse this stuff off of us when we need it to.

frozywozy · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

People that avoid the 'laggy' server usually end up missing out on valuable insight into the real meta though. Multiple groups stacking and spreading to bombard smaller numbers causes lag.People like you leave the server because of lag and then joke (or actually believe) theres nothing wrong with the meta theyre so desperate to flee. Its weird.

Yes. We've thoroughly broken them, even demoralized them. That doesnt mean the meta isnt disgusting. That doesnt mean most of the changes over the past 5 months dont favor bringing more and more numbers to a fight. People that pop back into eso for a short spell after playing other games have almost unanimously said "why cant I effing move!?" within minutes.

Steve and i are exhausted and need a break after this campaign win, but i heard there was a fengrush emp we could go fight...

You kinda contradict yourself here. In every other threads and posts I've seen you complain about the root meta, you mention Pact Militia spreading out and spamming bombard and negates, never stacking. Then you state that this actual strategy of spreading out and spamming bombard is the actual main cause of the server latency issues. I'm sorry but it is not. The main cause of latency issues will always remain organized groups stacking really close to each other, charging prox at the same time and dealing massive aoes, purges and heals all at the same time in a burst fashion. This is what will always cause major problems.

Having too many players in the same area also cause issues, but nowhere near as bad. In any case, we're not getting ride of that second problem anytime soon. People are too stubborn to create massive zergballs and don't wanna make an effort to create their own fights most of the time. Or they have this specific mentality that "As long as they don't git gud, they will stack numbers to win".

I personally think that Bombard is fine as it is. With Shuffle and Forward Momentum getting fixed next patch and working inside the negate, it's a great step in the right direction. You're a magicka class and you don't want to use a 2hand or you think that Shuffle doesn't give you enough immunity time wearing light or heavy armor? Maybe it's time to learn how to properly manage your stam to always have that extra dodge roll in case you get negated. Am I complaining because stam classes don't have access to high burst damage such as prox det? I'm not. Can't have it all.

Finally, as I said before, I think that snares are part of too many passives and abilities. They need to make them unique and hard to access. Your dps should be penalized by ALOT if you want to apply a snare. Just like Bombard does for the root instead of additional poison dmg.

KenaPKK · June 2016

@frozywozy I read like 2 sentences in the middle of that ^ post.

Magicka builds can't rely on Shuffle or roll dodge because roots and snares can be reapplied immediately. We'd run out of stam and get rekt (which is what happens).

Also stamina builds have plenty of burst damage. A bow heavy > crit rush > dawnbreaker > executioner combo is a ton of burst. Heck, anything plus Dawbreaker is a ton of AoE burst right now, and you have access to Steel Tornado, which remains the best AoE dps skill in the game.

You need to go play magicka open world before you make claims like those.

frozywozy · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

@frozywozy I read like 2 sentences in the middle of that ^ post.

Magicka builds can't rely on Shuffle or roll dodge because roots and snares can be reapplied immediately. We'd run out of stam and get rekt (which is what happens).

Also stamina builds have plenty of burst damage. A bow heavy > crit rush > dawnbreaker > executioner combo is a ton of burst. Heck, anything plus Dawbreaker is a ton of AoE burst right now, and you have access to Steel Tornado, which remains the best AoE dps skill in the game.

You need to go play magicka open world before you make claims like those.

I think you misunderstood the part where the problem is not only Bombard or not only Negate but the combination of both. This is what people have been complaining about. Now all you need to get out of a well placed negate into Bombard / Encase is a lil bit of judgement and stamina management to make sure that you always have that extra stamina to shuffle into dodge roll or simply dodge roll into mist if you are a vampire (which I strongly recommend).

I've played magicka DK 1month ago. I spent 400k gold into a fully upgraded setup yellow quality. I went back to stam because I still think that MagDK doesn't work in small scale openworld PVP. Not because of the snares or roots problems. Dodge roll into Mist form and gg negate root spam. No, I gave up because of the lack of burst or survivability.

Oh and btw, I started playing a magplar few weeks ago. Already rank 12 or so. I plan on playing him full time next Trueflame cycle. I've yet do die to Negate + root spam. I've been into alot of them and always managed to dodge roll into mist every single time. What bothers me is the amount of snares in Cyrodiil. They should be removed from several passives and/or abilities. People should have to pick between utility or damage. Never both. Another advice : If you have troubles getting out of a negate + root spam, maybe dropping your magicka recovery and/or magicka cost reduc and spend a lil bit more points into Tumbling would help.

Another though : Maybe Negate should remove only magicka ground effects? This way we could use ring of preservation that reduce the cost of dodge rolling by 20%.

Zheg · June 2016

@frozywozy you and I will never agree on the main cause of lag. Even though I feel strongly that each subsequent patch is just further evidence of how wrong you are/were about 20 people balled up causing the lag and not the 80 people running around a keep, I'm going to avoid having that debate for the 100th time. With regards to PM, no, I'm not wrong and I did not contradict myself. Stacking raids doesn't mean putting 3 raids literally on top of each other's bodies, they'd die in a single negate to that. Stacking raids refers to them bringing multiple raids to the same keep and all partaking in the same fights at the same time.

i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhrOVHObthc

Also the reason you aren't necessarily seeing the negate/root as much as organized groups is because you aren't playing in one all that often. I think I saw you in a large raid maybe twice this campaign? Sure, when I'm solo it's super easy to stay off to the side while watching invictus bomb and then go in with a prox, ult, and jabs/spears. When you're in a group you're a target, you can spread, and the good ones spread for incoming bombs, but when you have multiple raids plus pugs of opponents against your group and both sides spread, the deck is stacked in favor of those with more numbers (particularly because of the root spam).

I'd never expect saramis' raid to drop 6 negates on me when I'm solo (though who knows, he's not too fond of me), but that doesn't mean I don't remember fighting at brindle front door and hearing the sound effect of negate at least 7 or 8 times when we only had 2 of our own in group and no yellow pugs near that I saw. I'd like to see you get out of that many negates with the kind of aoe damage that groups put out and then come back to the discussion like everything is peachy - particularly when the majority of negates are invisible and you can't actually see that third negate that you need to gtfo from.

As an aside, magplar is one of the best solo and small scale builds, but I think you're starting to finally realize the grass isn't as green as you kept insisting it was all those times you argued with me about how unfair the deck was stacked against your poor top of the food chain stam DK.

Armitas · June 2016

Finally A dev came in to comfort us and tell us they have heard our complaints and are working on a solution....oh nevermind it was a mod. Carry on.

Anazasi · June 2016

sigh. This is a problem that many have commented on. Unfortunately ZOS simply can not fix the issue either by design or choice. All of the suggestions we as a community have made would in some way relieve the issues however there is no telling what other broken mechanics would be introduced.

frozywozy · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

@frozywozy you and I will never agree on the main cause of lag. Even though I feel strongly that each subsequent patch is just further evidence of how wrong you are/were about 20 people balled up causing the lag and not the 80 people running around a keep, I'm going to avoid having that debate for the 100th time. With regards to PM, no, I'm not wrong and I did not contradict myself. Stacking raids doesn't mean putting 3 raids literally on top of each other's bodies, they'd die in a single negate to that. Stacking raids refers to them bringing multiple raids to the same keep and all partaking in the same fights at the same time.

i.e.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhrOVHObthc

Also the reason you aren't necessarily seeing the negate/root as much as organized groups is because you aren't playing in one all that often. I think I saw you in a large raid maybe twice this campaign? Sure, when I'm solo it's super easy to stay off to the side while watching invictus bomb and then go in with a prox, ult, and jabs/spears. When you're in a group you're a target, you can spread, and the good ones spread for incoming bombs, but when you have multiple raids plus pugs of opponents against your group and both sides spread, the deck is stacked in favor of those with more numbers (particularly because of the root spam).

I'd never expect saramis' raid to drop 6 negates on me when I'm solo (though who knows, he's not too fond of me), but that doesn't mean I don't remember fighting at brindle front door and hearing the sound effect of negate at least 7 or 8 times when we only had 2 of our own in group and no yellow pugs near that I saw. I'd like to see you get out of that many negates with the kind of aoe damage that groups put out and then come back to the discussion like everything is peachy - particularly when the majority of negates are invisible and you can't actually see that third negate that you need to gtfo from.

As an aside, magplar is one of the best solo and small scale builds, but I think you're starting to finally realize the grass isn't as green as you kept insisting it was all those times you argued with me about how unfair the deck was stacked against your poor top of the food chain stam DK.

If someone drop 7 negates on you, you deserve to die. Period.

My stamDK sucks compared to my magplar. I don't have any points in elemental expert, I'm heavy armor full tank build and my RD ticks for 10k. I get 3-4x more killing blows on my templar as a full time healer. Should I keep going?

Zheg · June 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@frozywozy you and I will never agree on the main cause of lag. Even though I feel strongly that each subsequent patch is just further evidence of how wrong you are/were about 20 people balled up causing the lag and not the 80 people running around a keep, I'm going to avoid having that debate for the 100th time. With regards to PM, no, I'm not wrong and I did not contradict myself. Stacking raids doesn't mean putting 3 raids literally on top of each other's bodies, they'd die in a single negate to that. Stacking raids refers to them bringing multiple raids to the same keep and all partaking in the same fights at the same time.

i.e.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhrOVHObthc

Also the reason you aren't necessarily seeing the negate/root as much as organized groups is because you aren't playing in one all that often. I think I saw you in a large raid maybe twice this campaign? Sure, when I'm solo it's super easy to stay off to the side while watching invictus bomb and then go in with a prox, ult, and jabs/spears. When you're in a group you're a target, you can spread, and the good ones spread for incoming bombs, but when you have multiple raids plus pugs of opponents against your group and both sides spread, the deck is stacked in favor of those with more numbers (particularly because of the root spam).

I'd never expect saramis' raid to drop 6 negates on me when I'm solo (though who knows, he's not too fond of me), but that doesn't mean I don't remember fighting at brindle front door and hearing the sound effect of negate at least 7 or 8 times when we only had 2 of our own in group and no yellow pugs near that I saw. I'd like to see you get out of that many negates with the kind of aoe damage that groups put out and then come back to the discussion like everything is peachy - particularly when the majority of negates are invisible and you can't actually see that third negate that you need to gtfo from.

As an aside, magplar is one of the best solo and small scale builds, but I think you're starting to finally realize the grass isn't as green as you kept insisting it was all those times you argued with me about how unfair the deck was stacked against your poor top of the food chain stam DK.

If someone drop 7 negates on you, you deserve to die. Period.

My stamDK sucks compared to my magplar. I don't have any points in elemental expert, I'm heavy armor full tank build and my RD ticks for 10k. I get 3-4x more killing blows on my templar as a full time healer. Should I keep going?

*your rd ticks for 10k in super execute range, and probably those are the crits based on what you said about your build. I mock groupmates about stealing their KBs with jesus beam, they do all of the work and i get the KB at the very end and more of the juicy hate tells. You were far tougher on your DK. Keep going on magplar, its versatile and fun outside of bombard spam, and i think you'll benefit from getting actual experience under your belt on the class and hopefully stop making silly comments about how OP they are.