For all the sorcs who think they've been nerfed
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Seratopia✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?2 -
Serenityx✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.0 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Nah, its you who is whining and its you who needs to "l2p". And I dont want to sound like I want to offend you in any way. But I think you really dont know enough about this class, which your Opening Thread and answers already have proven more often than not. Its the opposite,
I actually tried to give a huge comparison, showing in a reasonable manner what the problems are, and all you did was complaining about my English, bringing some wrong infos in about the sorc class and "TL;DR" me, showing nothing but ignorance and lack of understanding for the problems the players of other classes have.
Therefore I assume you're just another selfish person, who laughs at everything bad that happens to others.
That said, im sure your favourite class will be confronted with some nerfs too some time, and I just want to let you know:
I wont be the one laughing at you.Attempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Well, you have never played a sorc yet you pull number out of your ass like there's no tomorrow. Seriously, L2P and realize sorcs need to be fixed badly instead of just being biased, ok?Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on June 28, 2016 5:06PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »@Minalan I never said sh*t was balanced, you're missing my point. I'm saying that shield duration doesn't affect that much of the gameplay. Shield stacking is still here when you need it, and every sorc still does it. I do agree that 6 sec is kinda harsh, but I mean as long as you get used to refreshing it constantly, to weaving it into your rotation you'll be fine. I'm running with Empowered Ward and Dampen Magic. The first because 10% recovery > returns from harness magicka, and the second because they are essentially the same. These 2 overlap and gave me great results in PvP. PvE's a little different, now we can't just chuck a shield and not worry about anything for 20 seconds, we actually have to pay attention or we die.
I tried empowered ward, it's just not big enough by itself to absorb a Stam hit. Whether it's the no-CP campaign where its 6K, or the 8K in CP campaigns, the shield gets obliterated in one hit, and those hits always eat into health. I also had serious sustain issues trying to stack and refresh two shields constantly. It was too expensive, nullify Magicka was just too costly even with the 10% buff from empowered.
I do better stacking healing ward and hardened, because the former at least keeps your health up when enemies eat into it, and you only need to cast heal ward when injured (no sustain issues). I front barred hardened ward and use it in the damage rotation. The 9K/12K works out much nicer, but the duration is still terrible.
My point is we aren't 'fine'. Only a few of us Magicka sorcs are 'doing okay' in PVP. The average Magicka sorc players left. Many of the really good players are having more fun with Templar. I'm not elitist, I think everyone should be able to have fun with this class. It needs to be fixed to be on par with the other three.
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Seratopia✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Who is crying? Me? Lmao really. I feel buffed this patch as a magicka sorc. I run a build and gear that balances all my stats out and shield changes do not affect me. The other sorcs just need time to figure it all out again.
The only thing that upsets me regarding you is you do not man a sorc so you just put those down who feel are nerfed and you aren't experienced in our playstyle enough to say anything but to the equivalent of "oh, such and such was buffed so stop crying." (In your original post) These other sorcerers are stuck in their obsolete playstyles because they need time to adjust and learn a new system again. So of course they're going to be snapping and nipping. You should let them alone so they can have peace to discuss what issues they have and maybe an experienced sorc who actually plays the class can step in and coach them.
Your thread was unnecessary. This thread from what I see is going nowhere positive and should be closed.
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Serenityx✭✭✭andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Nah, its you who is whining and its you who needs to "l2p". And I dont want to sound like I want to offend you in any way. But I think you really dont know enough about this class, which your Opening Thread and answers already have proven more often than not. Its the opposite,
I actually tried to give a huge comparison, showing in a reasonable manner what the problems are, and all you did was complaining about my English, bringing some wrong infos in about the sorc class and "TL;DR" me, showing nothing but ignorance and lack of understanding for the problems the players of other classes have.
Therefore I assume you're just another selfish person, who laughs at everything bad that happens to others.
That said, im sure your favourite class will be confronted with some nerfs too some time, and I just want to let you know:
I wont be the one laughing at you.
Im sorry I find it funny that such a good class is being considered bad by those who main it. To be fair, I would have been laughed at if I even tried to say NBs were not great last patch (pre DB). Which they werent as far as stam NB are concerned, still very capeable dont get me wrong but they needed an ulti that scales with their champ points and their class execute is now fixed as well. So now that they have been brought up only to compete with sorcs, alot of people seem to be losing their sh*t over it.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Imho, with the One Tamriel update, they should reconsider how the entire class system works.
We should be able to choose 3 skill lines from the ''class'' skill lines (so choose 3 out of 12) and you get some combination for a class name.
Choose Ardent Flame, Shadow and restoring Light, you're called a Holy Firestalker or whatever... You get what I mean lol.
There would be downsides, but I would personally love a system like that.
That way, well sorcs wouldn't be under or over powered, there wouldn't be a ''sorc'' class anymore. Choose the Daedric Summoning, Storm Calling and Shadow lines and be called a Nightstorm Herdsman... obviously someone better than me would find the classes names LOL.
Would fix some of the classes problems (sorc no magicka spammable, DK lack of mobility, etc) and be WAY more ''Elder Scrolls-y''Edited by Averya_Teira on June 28, 2016 2:20PM0 -
hayaschwarz✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Imho, with the One Tamriel update, they should reconsider how the entire class system works.
We should be able to choose 3 skill lines from the ''class'' skill lines (so choose 3 out of 12) and you get some combination for a class name.
Choose Ardent Flame, Shadow and restoring Light, you're called a Holy Firestalker or whatever... You get what I mean lol.
There would be downsides, but I would personally love a system like that.
That way, well sorcs wouldn't be under or over powered, there wouldn't be a ''sorc'' class anymore. Choose the Daedric Summoning, Storm Calling and Shadow lines and be called a Nightstorm Herdsman... obviously someone better than me would find the classes names LOL.
Lolz, this will be the biggest imbalance that can be added to the game since Launch!
And I still don't get why sorcs are so focused on the shields, the class is pretty much functional without shield stacking for Long period. Besides Harness magicka is also now absorbing all kinds of damage, which makes the shield stacking more broken than ever!
Basically all the sorcs want just to stack so many shields to become immortal in PvP. And not even bother to adapt or adjust and Play the game in fair sense of Balance! If that what you are looking for, then gg on breaking the game!haya-sw - Stamina Dragonknight / Tank
Shrouded Lachance - Stamina Nightblade / Tank
Healer le Bobo - Magicka Templar
Haya-Jr - Magicka Dragonknight
C-Frags Haya - Magicka Sorcerer
Hi Ya - Magicka Nightblade
Haya-Jr II - Stamina Dragonknight / Tank
Co-Founder and Officer of Well Fitted, PvE leading EU DC Guild0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭hayaschwarz wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Imho, with the One Tamriel update, they should reconsider how the entire class system works.
We should be able to choose 3 skill lines from the ''class'' skill lines (so choose 3 out of 12) and you get some combination for a class name.
Choose Ardent Flame, Shadow and restoring Light, you're called a Holy Firestalker or whatever... You get what I mean lol.
There would be downsides, but I would personally love a system like that.
That way, well sorcs wouldn't be under or over powered, there wouldn't be a ''sorc'' class anymore. Choose the Daedric Summoning, Storm Calling and Shadow lines and be called a Nightstorm Herdsman... obviously someone better than me would find the classes names LOL.
Lolz, this will be the biggest imbalance that can be added to the game since Launch!
And I still don't get why sorcs are so focused on the shields, the class is pretty much functional without shield stacking for Long period. Besides Harness magicka is also now absorbing all kinds of damage, which makes the shield stacking more broken than ever!
Basically all the sorcs want just to stack so many shields to become immortal in PvP. And not even bother to adapt or adjust and Play the game in fair sense of Balance! If that what you are looking for, then gg on breaking the game!
I know of many sorcs that wanted shield-stacking removed from the game and just wanted their class ward to be viable by itself. Why would you prefer to slot/cast 3 wards rather than just one? Most sorc mains are tired of being seen as tyrants and want their class to be balanced as much as anyone else. The players who enjoy being op don't main a single class; they re-roll to the fotm.PC | EU2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭hayaschwarz wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Imho, with the One Tamriel update, they should reconsider how the entire class system works.
We should be able to choose 3 skill lines from the ''class'' skill lines (so choose 3 out of 12) and you get some combination for a class name.
Choose Ardent Flame, Shadow and restoring Light, you're called a Holy Firestalker or whatever... You get what I mean lol.
There would be downsides, but I would personally love a system like that.
That way, well sorcs wouldn't be under or over powered, there wouldn't be a ''sorc'' class anymore. Choose the Daedric Summoning, Storm Calling and Shadow lines and be called a Nightstorm Herdsman... obviously someone better than me would find the classes names LOL.
Lolz, this will be the biggest imbalance that can be added to the game since Launch!
And I still don't get why sorcs are so focused on the shields, the class is pretty much functional without shield stacking for Long period. Besides Harness magicka is also now absorbing all kinds of damage, which makes the shield stacking more broken than ever!
Basically all the sorcs want just to stack so many shields to become immortal in PvP. And not even bother to adapt or adjust and Play the game in fair sense of Balance! If that what you are looking for, then gg on breaking the game!
Sorcs don't all want to shield stack to infinity... They want a good way to mitigate damage. The problem is that without shield, magicka sorcs die in about 1.5 second.
they could change the spell so it absorbs a portion of the damage for 20 seconds. Like one morph absorbs 20% (or whatever percentage feels right...) of all incoming damage and heals for 15% of the absorbed amount and the other morph damage back for a % of the absorbed amount ?
Obviously tweek the percentages so it isn't super OP.1 -
Serenityx✭✭✭Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.0 -
hayaschwarz✭✭✭andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Maybe a little comparison can help people understand this situation a little better.
- A )How much damage does a shield on a Mag Sorc block, how much health does he have and what kind of armor does he use?
- B )How much damage does a dodge roll on a Stam DK block, how much health does he have and what kind of armor does he/she use?
Maybe you can see where I'm going here.
A ) A shield costs about ~2.6k Magicka and absorbs 10-15k Damage in next 6 seconds. He has 15-20k health and He is wearing Light Armor.
B ) A dodge roll costs about ~3k Stamina and absorbs ALL damage in a small time frame, he has about 22-25k health and he is wearing Medium Armor
So what do we learn from this?
- A sorc
has to sacrifice health to have strong, timed Shields as replacement for low health, which lasts 6 seconds. Why not take Health instead? max Magicka is important for Damage, too! The fact that a shield Defends against Maybe 2 attacks and every 6 seconds he is back to ridiculous low health and that he has to use Light Armor, makes him in this meta so squishy, that he's scared of being sneezed at. Keeping Resistance Reduction + Ignores in mind, a Sorc effectively runs less than 0 - 5000 resistance and 15k health if shield is down, a reliable class heal does not exist and an emergency heal comes only in form of a resto staff ability which relies on shield strength which forces to use Resto Staves aswell. This leads to shield spamming, considering wreckingblow and surprise attack spam hitting for at least 6-10k or being crit rushed deals ~5k dmg itself and the low health leads to death any second, fighting back is impossible (due to shield spamming).The Low Stam pool allows for maybe 2-3 dodge rolls or break frees and leads to completely ignored shields anyway, leaving a Sorc with 15k health, 0-5000 Resistance and no possibility to dodge or break free, waiting for death.
- A Stam DK
Has overall higher health and due to wearing Medium Armor higher resistances, aswell as benefits from cheaper dodge rolls and mobility. The Shield a sorcerer has to spam, Is Kind of included here as Health and doesnt Need to be reactivated. Therefore a Stam DK relies on healing. He benefits from HoT from Rally as example which Can be used as emergency Heal or Vigor, which Is a very strong HoT, comparable to Rally, and both come improved from a class Major Mending(sorc has no Access to this buff) which costs a less important resource(Magicka).If everything fails and He Is surrounded by 10 Enemy Players, he can still Dodge Roll, negating ANY Damage in a Small Time Frame and if done repeatedly for increased Cost in a very Long Time Frame, which Is not a big Problem since regen usually Is higher, Damage as High or Even higher and abilities Cost Overall way less than on a Magicka Build . Combining that with a permanent 20% Dodge Chance and Slow Immunity from Shuffle, and keeping Ressource Return on Ultimate Use in mind, a Stam DK (and Overall Stam Builds) excell at survivability.
To make a sorc survive better without Falling behind too much (Damage wise) Is hard If not impossible when keeping in mind there are
- no reliable self heals(except stupid pets or easily interruptable and delayed Dark Exchange which heal is not that great to begin with)
- spamming shields leads to no Damage Output at all (too easy to be forced into defense)
- No variation due to underwhelming class abilities -> Same playstyle -> Same Problems -> same easiness to be countered
Now dont get me wrong, with that comparison im not asking for Stam DK or stam overall nerfs "because I'm a salty Mag Sorc git gud" or whatever, no I'm just pointing out how well it (Stam dk) works and how good a DK can put what he has available to use. This is how good and fluently every class should work. And it does so because of the tools available, exactly what a Sorc doesn't have.
These tools im talking about also include class abilities which is the biggest flaw of a sorc in my opinion.
The only tools a Sorc has for survival are
a
- (nerfed) Streak
- (nerfed) Surge (+ reliance on crit!)
- (nerfed) Shields (say what you want, reduced duration IS a nerf)
- (buffed but still wasteful) channelled heal: Dark Exchange
For Damage we got interesting abilities like
- a heavy-hitting, timed curse
- a heavy-hitting but easy to avoid/reflect Chrystal Fragment (with a useless 2nd morph)
- an execute with a not-so-good execute range
- A Stunning very short-range Teleport which deals Shock Damage, cost increae with every use
- a good ground based Shock AoE Ability
- a heavy-hitting but easy to avoid/reflect Overload Ultimate
- An Atronach Summon Ult which Stuns and Damages in AoE range, but afterwards is not doing too well.
- A great AoE Silence Ult which can either deal some damage or heal when inside, but is easy to avoid if not timed perfectly
This is where Sorc doesn't need much improvement actually.
The rest are utility Abilities, which either
- other classes also have and use more efficiently
- are Toggles with underwhelming Use
- are underwhelming summons(toggles, too)
- Are not contributing to Group/Dungeon Play in any way with let's say unique buffs
or
- are not useful to begin with, due to various other reasons (range/radius, cost per use, being bound to a stupid pet, etc.)
Some Active Abilitiy Change Suggestions:
- Empowered Ward: "Also grants Minor IntellectVitality to you and nearby allies for 10 seconds"
- Bound Aegis: "While equipped you receive Minor Mending, increasing healing done by 10%. Aditionally, you restore 2% Max Stamina, whenever you are attacked. This can happen once every 4 seconds."
- Surge: Remove the crit based proc and replace it with a constant 50% Chance while active
- Dark Exchange: Make the user uninterruptable while channeling + make the heal come instantly (seems delayed)
Passives:
- Most passives sorc use, have passive (no pun intended) improvements, like a little more spell dmg, more health regen, more weapon damage and so on. Now, This is not a bad thing, but these include nothing that helps during a fight. Also there are 2 Summon centred Passives, which are really useless.
- Rebate: When a Summon dies(doesnt include the Daedroth as example) you restore pathetic 1450 Magicka
How to improve Rebate: When a summon dies, it explodes for 3000 Shock Damage and knocks down the closest enemy. Additionally, you restore 1500 Magicka and gain Minor intellect for 8 seconds.
- Expert Summoner: 8% more Max Health if a Summon is active
How to improve: 2/4% more Max Health. If a summon is active, your Max Health is increased by 5/10% instead
The only potentially interesting Passives are
- "Blood Magic": 8% max health restore when dark magic ability used against an enemy
- "Implosion": Whenever you deal shock/physical dmg to a target under 15% health, you have a 6% chance to cause 4732 Shock/Physical Damage
Why potentially interesting?
- Blood Magic: 8% max Health restore sounds good at first, but 8% of already low Health, lets say from 20k is 1600, which still is low. Additionally it only happens when hitting an enemy, also only on the first hit. This means this Ability has a internal cooldown and it also doesnt work on more than 1 target hit(Tested Suppression Field, Restraining Prison)
- Implosion: The idea of this passive is great and works out very good on a Stam Sorc due to more Dots being avalaible and used. For Mag Sorc on the other hand, there are very few options to proc this Effect at all.
How to improve Blood Magic:
New Tooltip: Restore 8% max Health when a dark magic ability is used against an enemy
Restore 12% max Health whenever a dark magic ability is activated.
- Even if it still doesnt proc multiple times, it atleast works on every single ability from Dark Magic and overall proc more often
- Dark Exchange procs it now and heal + Blood Magic proc at same time is like a buff to Dark Exchange itslf (which is needed)
- Defensive Rune now also grants the heal, even if the attacking Enemy is cc immune
- (Obviously) more Healing
How to improve Implosion:
New Tooltip: : Whenever you deal physical(shock) dmg to a target under 15%(25%) health, you have a 6%(12%) chance to cause 4732 Physical (2742 Shock) Damage
- The Physical Dmg stays the same since it works well enough
- Shock Damage proc chance is now higher but in exchange the damage it can deal is lowered
My first reaction to your Response is, where are you getting your numbers from! In base function Stamina and magicka builds have the same base values of health and regen (excluding class and race passives). So in practice the stam DK and the Sorc should have the same amount of health under the same circumstances. And about the regen, both classes can gain through gear and enchants very similar amounts of regen!
You also compared streak to dudge roll! Both abilities got nerfed because of endless streaking sorcs who streaked from one end to the other in cyro, and ofc perma dadging Stamina builds. So both abilities are very justified to be nerfed.
Also the shields, Sorcs used to stack shields beyond believe. Whenever I ran into sorc back in 1.6 it took me forever to take down their shields due to the fact, whenver I take one down, the next one is up! And the base mechanic about shields is to use them for defence untill the sorc burst is usefull (combingin it with short range frag). If you are complainign about Crystal frags in longer range, then even snipe can be dodged!
And about changes to the class, you can ask for all changes in the world to be implemented to make the class unkillable! But that would add more stupidity and imbalance to cyro, while the sorc is fine as to so many duels I watched and did against magicka sorcs.
My solution to you is, stop crying about it and adjust to the changes and make use of a good class that is perfectly balanced with others!haya-sw - Stamina Dragonknight / Tank
Shrouded Lachance - Stamina Nightblade / Tank
Healer le Bobo - Magicka Templar
Haya-Jr - Magicka Dragonknight
C-Frags Haya - Magicka Sorcerer
Hi Ya - Magicka Nightblade
Haya-Jr II - Stamina Dragonknight / Tank
Co-Founder and Officer of Well Fitted, PvE leading EU DC Guild1 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.
You realize spamming Shield doesn't actually make you win, just loose slower ?2 -
Serenityx✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.
You realize spamming Shield doesn't actually make you win, just loose slower ?
In a situation where the sorc is outnumbered, that can be true. In any XvX situation all sorcs have to do is pop shields while other randoms/players apply pressure and they'll never die unless/until the group their with is wiped.0 -
Serenityx✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Who is crying? Me? Lmao really. I feel buffed this patch as a magicka sorc. I run a build and gear that balances all my stats out and shield changes do not affect me. The other sorcs just need time to figure it all out again.
The only thing that upsets me regarding you is you do not man a sorc so you just put those down who feel are nerfed and you aren't experienced in our playstyle enough to say anything but to the equivalent of "oh, such and such was buffed so stop crying." (In your original post) These other sorcerers are stuck in their obsolete playstyles because they need time to adjust and learn a new system again. So of course they're going to be snapping and nipping. You should let them alone so they can have peace to discuss what issues they have and maybe an experienced sorc who actually plays the class can step in and coach them.
Your thread was unnecessary. This thread from what I see is going nowhere positive and should be closed.
Why do you think Im specifically saying your the one crying? When I said "You guys" that was directed towards the ones crying. If your not crying and are happy with your class, Im glad for that! You should be, the many others out there that ARE crying about the sorc class need to learn from you.
And ZOS will close it if they feel it is neccesary. I dont feel Ive violated any of the forum rules with anything Ive said.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play both mag & stam sorc, pvp only tho.
After hearing a lot of feedback from excellent players and building my own opinion via playing, I came to the conclusion that the "only" real new problems for DB Mag sorcs in pvp are higher ressource cost (= less damage output) and sluggish to break/long lasting cc`s (fear, reverb, etc.) exploiting the short shield timer, especially in mid/high ping situations.
Top Magsorcs are mostly able to play around those newly introduced weaknesses and dont feel these nerfs are holding them back all too much. Applying basic balancing rules would imply that the class is still totally viable, it`s just that the skill floor was raised quite a bit and theres still room for all struggling Magsorcs to slowly adapt improve their skills without adjusting the numbers.
Since ESO isn`t a competetive game and most players are not very talented in controlling their characters I`d advocate an increase of about 2 seconds to the shield timers for the sake of artificially boosting their learning process and to compensate those nasty cc`s incoming.
Since Magsorc burst potential was far too high in previous patches I`m still torn on whether help is needed or a slight cost decrease across the board would be totally sufficient. What I`m trying to say is, that I think very minor changes to dmg related mechanics can have already huge effects.
I.e.: making curse unblockable again would change a lot by itself, in my honest opinion. Sorcs were able to (over)compensate for the blockable curse with DB and Detonation so far, not anymore. I think thats one of the core issues, since unblokcable curse opened up a very dangerous burst window every 4 seconds which is just not existant anymore.
BREdited by Mojomonkeyman on June 28, 2016 3:14PMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.
You realize spamming Shield doesn't actually make you win, just loose slower ?
In a situation where the sorc is outnumbered, that can be true. In any XvX situation all sorcs have to do is pop shields while other randoms/players apply pressure and they'll never die unless/until the group their with is wiped.
if you see a sorc Shield spamming, you ignore him... anyway it's not like if you focus others and he starts DPSing, he'll do much damage LOL... So what if he's the last alive, the sorc's group still lost -_-
What you are describing is bad players PvP...1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.
You realize spamming Shield doesn't actually make you win, just loose slower ?
In a situation where the sorc is outnumbered, that can be true. In any XvX situation all sorcs have to do is pop shields while other randoms/players apply pressure and they'll never die unless/until the group their with is wiped.
Sorcs don't judge the state of our class by XvX, though. In XvX, we have all the time in the world to run Curse-Frag-Fury rotations while spamming shields.... so what? Everyone's build works better in XvX, where you can hide behind others and soak up Rapid Regen heals.
Sorcs judge our class by the outcomes of 1v1 fights, where the pain and humiliation is REAL. My Hardened Ward is WAY too small, even at 13K, to absorb the damage coming from Stamblades these days. That's why everybody and their mother is running a Stamblade gank build in the IC sewers. It doesn't matter how much damage I can do if I get killed before the 3.5 second Curse detonates. Until I can last more than 2 seconds against those Stam clowns.... YEAH, I'm gonna keep coming to the forums to demand buffs for Sorcs!
Edited by Emma_Overload on June 28, 2016 3:23PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Serenityx✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Always get a big kick out of Mag Sorcs crying "but all you have to do is CC us when our shields go down and if we are out of stam then we are dead." I mean come on. Welcome to every magicka class in the game. It isn't like the other magicka classes have some latent ability to cast their defenses while CCed. Can't cloak while CCed, can't flap while CCed, can't BoL while CCed. The bottom line is if you get CCed as a magicka build while out of stamina then you are dead. Yet for some reason Sorcs love to go around on forums saying "OMG we are so easy to kill. Just CC us!" like they're the only magicka class that faces this issue.
Stam classes don't have the stun/death problem. Between heavy armor and vigor running you're usually okay.
Magicka sorcs have the problem, because nobody is refreshing their shield every two or three seconds. If they gave us 8-10 second shields we could refresh every 5 seconds and still be okay with a stun if we have the skill and reflexes. It wouldn't be instant death. Every time.
As for other Magicka classes? Templars can heal to full. Magicka nightblades can cloak off. Magicka dragon knights can reflect everything and heal. Sorcs can't do any of that. We can streak, but between the increasing cost, short distance, and the delay - you just get gap-closed immediately. If you streak downhill one centimeter you're dead because it literally stops you two seconds to show the falling animation.
See the issue here? It should be fixed. Increase shield duration by two to three seconds. Fix streak. Level the field.
Im sorry but if your being killed 100% of the time your CC'ed...I hate saying learn to play so, your doing something very wrong if being CC'ed is that detrimental to your playstyle.
If anything, a CC is worse to a class that doesnt have shields. Most sorcs I come against are running tri-pots anyways, so all they have to do is pop one after a CC and their good to spam shields for another 5 minutes. Pop another tri-pot...repeat.
You realize spamming Shield doesn't actually make you win, just loose slower ?
In a situation where the sorc is outnumbered, that can be true. In any XvX situation all sorcs have to do is pop shields while other randoms/players apply pressure and they'll never die unless/until the group their with is wiped.
Sorcs don't judge the state of our class by XvX, though. In XvX, we have all the time in the world to run Curse-Frag-Fury rotations while spamming shields.... so what? Everyone's build works better in XvX, where you can hide behind others and soak up Rapid Regen heals.
Sorcs judge our class by the outcomes of 1v1 fights, where the pain and humiliation is REAL. My Hardened Ward is WAY too small, even at 13K, to absorb the damage coming from Stamblades these days. That's why everybody and their mother is running a Stamblade gank build in the IC sewers. It doesn't matter how much damage I can do if I get killed before the 3.5 second Curse detonates. Until I can last more than 2 seconds against those Stam clowns.... YEAH, I'm gonna keep coming to the forums to demand buffs for Sorcs!
So when I complain about sorc shields letting them sustain for 20 minutes in a pretty much all situations (exadgerating, keep your panties neat for me) I have to l2p. But when you die to a stamblade in 2 seconds its not an l2p issue? Please...
As for XvX situations....it is sad you choose to ignore my point on this aspect of the game. Dont get me wrong, I absolutely love to duel. But 70% of the time Im in an XvX situation when in cyrodil. It is a huge aspect of this game, and the fact you ignore it shows how biased and unwilling to "see" you are. (if I werent to be so polite, Id just say Ignorant)
If your dying more often in duels because of 6 second shields, your doing something wrong. Shields by your logic of how much damage you take wouldnt last 6 seconds anyways..0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Surge nerf is what killed the class not ward duration. for me anyways.
Ward duration, is an annoyance that doesn't need to be in the game. but that's about it.
This is my main culprit aswell. I could live with wards even though i think 8s for hardened and 12s for empowered would make the class a little less hectic then it does now with 6/10s.
However the surge changes are the real big nerf the class got in pvp. The new surge just does not allow to heal up fast enough in pvp.
Especially with magica sorcs "bursty" proccbased playstyle a heal based on constantly attacking and critting the enemy does feel clunky and gets outperformed even by rapid regeneration.
The new (power)surge is almost as bad as dragonblood for it´s intended function.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
@Derra I have been ignoring this clown Serenity this entire thread because he has no idea what he's talking about.
Since DB launched, I have put probably close to 60 hours doing to 1vX on Trueflame and Haderus PC/NA. I can count on my two hands how many magicka sorcs I have seen. One of them in this thread @Fasoo
I would not call that competitive. This guy is completely clueless and is obviously on the "I constantly get rekt by sorcs" choo choo train.
The non-FOTM sorcs can still play just fine but it's a chore. It's not fun. It's not engaging. My hands stiffen up so fast now playing my magicka sorc with the constant bar swapping and reapplying. And I honestly don't feel like we have anything that distinguishes us from the other classes.
- We don't have the escape or mobility
- shields are a joke (Honestly should buff the shield strength of hardened ward at least as any decent stamina player can burst down the 13k in a second with ani-cancelling)
- our choice in ultimates are situational and a joke (negate and atronach are fun against 1vX bads but any competent player just moves out of them)
- our damage is very subpar compared to even stam sorcs. And that is Lolz considering how "hurtin" they have been.
- the cost increase against our already stacking Bolt Escape increase is just silly, it's a BaBa for all the babies who cried about sorcs constantly getting away instead of "being a man" and standing toe to toe with a 2H sword wielding epeen whose definition of a fair fight is a button mashing melee.
I think the classes that can spam toppling, crit rush, ambush, etc need to STFU about Bolt Escape. Period. Amen. I mean, where's your stacking cost increase?
I can't believe how clueless some of you are to not understand that spamming shields = zero dmg output. It'd be nice if we could join the ezmode band wagon and get access to a powerful Heal Dot like Vigor so we can stay on the offensive, or have some form of physical mitigation so we're not pigeon holed into needing shields....imagine that, a *** magicka class not having access to a magicka heal without needing a resto staff....but it makes perfect sense to have one available to pure melee DPS class. The RP crowd must be rolling in nails over this. I mean, that's almost as stupid as Blizzard giving Warriors and Hunters a full class heal.
Edited by Makkir on June 28, 2016 5:59PM2 -
Serenityx✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
No man, I play Xbox NA and have guested 3 or so campaigns since DB while homed in Scourge for the past 2-3 months on EP. There has been a strong presence(/normal amount) of mag sorcs in each campaign Ive guested and plenty in scourge.
I dont see the point in implying that mag sorcs aren't competitive post DB. Tbh the only difference Ive noticed about them (the ones who are very good) is they arent unkillable when 1vXing.
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Serenityx✭✭✭
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
@Derra I have been ignoring this clown Serenity this entire thread because he has no idea what he's talking about.
Since DB launched, I have put probably close to 60 hours doing to 1vX on Trueflame and Haderus PC/NA. I can count on my two hands how many magicka sorcs I have seen. One of them in this thread @Fasoo
I would not call that competitive. This guy is completely clueless and is obviously on the "I constantly get rekt by sorcs" choo choo train.
The non-FOTM sorcs can still play just fine but it's a chore. It's not fun. It's not engaging. My hands stiffen up so fast now playing my magicka sorc with the constant bar swapping and reapplying. And I honestly don't feel like we have anything that distinguishes us from the other classes.
- We don't have the escape or mobility
- shields are a joke (Honestly should buff the shield strength of hardened ward at least as any decent stamina player can burst down the 13k in a second with ani-cancelling)
- our choice in ultimates are situational and a joke (negate and atronach are fun against 1vX bads but any competent player just moves out of them)
- our damage is very subpar compared to even stam sorcs. And that is Lolz considering how "hurtin" they have been.
- the cost increase against our already stacking Bolt Escape increase is just silly, it's a BaBa for all the babies who cried about sorcs constantly getting away instead of "being a man" and standing toe to toe with a 2H sword wielding epeen whose definition of a fair fight is a button mashing melee.
I think the classes that can spam toppling, crit rush, ambush, etc need to STFU about Bolt Escape. Period. Amen. I mean, where's your stacking cost increase?
I can't believe how clueless some of you are to not understand that spamming shields = zero dmg output. It'd be nice if we could join the ezmode band wagon and get access to a powerful Heal Dot like Vigor so we can stay on the offensive, or have some form of physical mitigation so we're not pigeon holed into needing shields....imagine that, a *** magicka class not having access to a magicka heal without needing a resto staff....but it makes perfect sense to have one available to pure melee DPS class. The RP crowd must be rolling in nails over this. I mean, that's almost as stupid as Blizzard giving Warriors and Hunters a full class heal.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Who is crying? Me? Lmao really. I feel buffed this patch as a magicka sorc. I run a build and gear that balances all my stats out and shield changes do not affect me. The other sorcs just need time to figure it all out again.
The only thing that upsets me regarding you is you do not man a sorc so you just put those down who feel are nerfed and you aren't experienced in our playstyle enough to say anything but to the equivalent of "oh, such and such was buffed so stop crying." (In your original post) These other sorcerers are stuck in their obsolete playstyles because they need time to adjust and learn a new system again. So of course they're going to be snapping and nipping. You should let them alone so they can have peace to discuss what issues they have and maybe an experienced sorc who actually plays the class can step in and coach them.
Your thread was unnecessary. This thread from what I see is going nowhere positive and should be closed.
Rethinking my previous reply to you. With this sort of feedback I may want to request a lock. If thats possible? Ive made my points and nobody is going to be able to read them through these walls of text..
Maybe he is just on PC, probably more PC players read the forums than console which may lead to less sorcs playing in PC given all the "nerf" threads about their class.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
Sorcs have always been one of the crappiest bounty quests to get. Losing 1v1? STREAK! Losing 1vx? STREAK! Losing 1vZerg? STREAK!
Um, NB? Losing 1v1? CLOAK! Losing 1vX? CLOAK! Losing 1vzerg? CLOAK!
It's called using your defences wisely lol.
Cloak? -DoT, Caltrops, any AoE, detect pots, there are even poisons now that prevent you from cloaking or allow you to "mark" an NB. By any sorcs logic, NB has actually been nerfed. Their class ability mark target is now available to any class via poison. NBs are so effing trash, we need 20 second cloaks, 100% buff to vigor, and rally should be a class/guild line ability to make our class viable. @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Streak got every single gap closer in the game that prevents a sorc from getting away. Maybe if you'd L2P you'd know that instead of whining on the forums about streak being OP.......
Quote where you think Im whining in this topic? I dont expect you to have read every single comment in here, but I did say streak was actually balanced by its resource cost/increase per cast, as is dodge roll. Saying as you get tons of distance out of streaks, and its incredibly easy to break LoS with streak. Maybe its you who needs to l2p?
Seems like whining to me. I see you in every sorc oriented thread. Putting in your two cents.
...You don't even play a Sorc. What logic is that?
Im just thoroughly happy to see some effort from ZOS on balancing sorcs. Its also fun to watch you guys cry, when your class is still as competitive as it is in PvP.
An NB that has no "l2p issues" vs a sorc who knows half as much is still going to sustain 10x longer than any class just by putting their shields up.
Do you see any magica sorcs in pvp?
I´ve seen four including myself.
Sorc is in a form "competetive" as it has people going stamsorc on breton and performing better than by playing magica.
So yeah there is a form of competetive sorc. You just fail to mention that those are stam specced.
No man, I play Xbox NA and have guested 3 or so campaigns since DB while homed in Scourge for the past 2-3 months on EP. There has been a strong presence(/normal amount) of mag sorcs in each campaign Ive guested and plenty in scourge.
I dont see the point in implying that mag sorcs aren't competitive post DB. Tbh the only difference Ive noticed about them (the ones who are very good) is they arent unkillable when 1vXing.
Could be a difference between console/pc then.
They are not competetive on PC in soloing/duoing. They´re ok in grp mainly bc of negate and the finisher finally working properly for the first time since release.
Most sorcs i know switched/stopped playing/respecced stamina even on magica races. I do see quite a lot of stam sorcs though.
It´s just i hope the class does not go the DK route where magica does not get any attention but stamina gets buffed to a point where people deem the class competetive simply bc 1 spec is doing so well.
Magsorc aswell as magDK is NOT fine atm imo.
I do have a working spec. However the constant recasting of shield makes it unfun to play.
On top of that as a mag sorc i´m now more than i ever was limited in terms of my build. The little room that was left for customisation and personal playstyle completely evaporated with DB. I´ve become a clone of the other hand full of magica sorcs still running around. Not because i wanted to but because i don´t have ANY choice anymore as sorc.
Edit: A general problem of this patch is the difference in efficiency when looking at poisons. 60% cost increase for stam does not affect their main defenses of block and dodgeroll whereas magica cost increase is universal. It´s my one big problem with the cost increase poisons - i can´t counter cost increase when fighting mag vs stam.Edited by Derra on June 28, 2016 6:40PM<Noricum>
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