The Toxic Root Meta in Alliance War / PvP

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Ffastyl · June 2016

I took Forward Momentum off my bar one time... I put it back on shortly after. Having snare/root immunity is an immense aid in PvP, but is currently in short supply. At the moment, Stamina users have a monopoly over snare/root immunity abilities (Forward Momentum, Shuffle and Rapid Maneuvers). I wholly agree with not introducing a cooldown on snares/roots because certain classes/playstyles (ie Dragonknight) depend on them. So the answer is to introduce immunity to more abilities. Purge may be an ideal place to start: add to its list of effects snare/root immunity for 2/3/4 seconds. Small groups will need to frequently recast Purge to remove snares/roots but will not need to mash the key to sometimes remove them. At 5 seconds in duration, this change to Purge threatens to remove snares and roots as an option in large battles due to the abilities ubiquity, in fact even 4 seconds is pushing it given how frequently Purge can be cast. However 2 seconds is likely too short a duration. This added snare/root immunity can be tweaked between morphs as well, with the more costly morph having a longer duration; it should prevent negating snares and roots as a viable option in large scale battle.

Zheg · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8
As a side note, your 6man is a small group, but my 8 man is not? Ok. I'm not saying I'm in an 8 man group every night, but don't assume others aren't playing in smallmans and have their own experiences.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

Also, purify =/= cleanse.

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using bombard (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

True and all but both of you are forgeting the most important element here. 'Brain Power! The ability to improvise tactics." Yes the zerg's members can use these same abilites as well, However most zerglings would rather mindlessly spam abilities like bombard, then to think about positioning of self and enemy formation throughout the battle. Also I've came to noticed my zerglings also choose to chase solo players or players they out number to a great degree. The is where abilities like bombard and such shine in the hands of the small groups going up against the zergs.

I'll ran with EP zergs from "LFG" guild and "Blood for the Pact" guild up until recently for the past 3 weeks. And when ever I brought up things like, " If more members carried poisons and immovable pots and such. Most would respond to me with things like "I would like but that stuff is too expensive" or "I just don't want to have to think about which poisons I have to use and such." or "Those things are nice but they are too much of a bother." These things are standard to most solo and small group 2 to 6 players.

My conclusion is that yes even tho everyone can use bombard, it mostly helps the smaller groups going against the zergs. I've found most zerglings to either have huge lack of gold and or AP because lets face it zerging rewards you with crap these days. Many zerglings just don't care to think for themselves and would rather other do the thinking for them, Quite a few zerglings lack attention to details and get tunnel vision while chasing that streaking sorcerer into a small group's perfectly setup ganker's ambush. Also I find alot of people just don't have or have the willingness to get gear "just for pvp". So abilities like bombard and such when put together in builds just meant to take down mindless zerglings, they will always be more of a bane to zergs then the solo or small group players in Cyrodiil. Therefor zerglings will so more hate for such abilities then the solo or small man groups.

This is ofc all opinionated experience while running with these groups of zerglings. EP is not the only gulity party here either just the one I most recently immersed myself with.

God_flakes · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

@Zheg I'm not getting into the semantics of what constitutes a small group or a large group. You and I are never going to agree on that point, which is fine because it's all relative. But if you say you usually run more people than I do, and you're telling me bombard isn't helpful against zergs, then maybe you need to update your strategy book. But I guess that's no longer relevant advice anyways.

Zheg · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

Also, purify =/= cleanse.

You aren't the only ones that want to keep it in game though, and your post very much insinuated as much, even if that's not what you meant. And yes, every1 can take chunks out of them, the point is that you aren't beating them with a 6 man when they're all spamming bombard and dropping negates on you. Everyone from solo to large groups has complained about bombard for 6 months. You have a unique perspective to share and we should be mindful we don't destroy the skill so it can still function for the situations you talk about, but let's be careful not to act like there isn't a gigantic problem with the permaroot meta.

Also, your purge/cleanse in relation to root spam will always be less efficient than purify, so I'm not sure what your point was there. You implied purge was enough to keep you mobile, and that was what I disagreed with. If that wasn't what you were implying, then forget it.

PosternHouse · June 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

Also, purify =/= cleanse.

You aren't the only ones that want to keep it in game though, and your post very much insinuated as much, even if that's not what you meant. And yes, every1 can take chunks out of them, the point is that you aren't beating them with a 6 man when they're all spamming bombard and dropping negates on you. Everyone from solo to large groups has complained about bombard for 6 months. You have a unique perspective to share and we should be mindful we don't destroy the skill so it can still function for the situations you talk about, but let's be careful not to act like there isn't a gigantic problem with the permaroot meta.

Also, your purge/cleanse in relation to root spam will always be less efficient than purify, so I'm not sure what your point was there. You implied purge was enough to keep you mobile, and that was what I disagreed with. If that wasn't what you were implying, then forget it.

I never said there wasn't a problem with the current meta- in fact if you read my previous posts, I offer several suggestions that won't actually ruin the skill.
Purge doesn't need to be synergized (in the lag created by mega zergs, synergies aren't always effective). That's why I run it. It makes a huge difference.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

Zheg · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

People that avoid the 'laggy' server usually end up missing out on valuable insight into the real meta though. Multiple groups stacking and spreading to bombard smaller numbers causes lag. People like you leave the server because of lag and then joke (or actually believe) theres nothing wrong with the meta theyre so desperate to flee. Its weird.

Yes. We've thoroughly broken them, even demoralized them. That doesnt mean the meta isnt disgusting. That doesnt mean most of the changes over the past 5 months dont favor bringing more and more numbers to a fight. People that pop back into eso for a short spell after playing other games have almost unanimously said "why cant I effing move!?" within minutes.

Steve and i are exhausted and need a break after this campaign win, but i heard there was a fengrush emp we could go fight...

FENGRUSH · June 2016

If you guys lag out and break Haderus as well, there will be no forgiveness left in this world for you.

Zheg · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

If you guys lag out and break Haderus as well, there will be no forgiveness left in this world for you.

Ill just take VE raids 2-4 to haderus. Maybe the 5th as alternates for any afks and crashes.

PosternHouse · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

No. People are complaining that they run metric arseloads of people.

And yeah because it's the 20 VE breaking the server, not the 2+ stacked blue raids or 3+ stacked red raids. Whatever you say man. You're going to come to TF and get walked down by 72 twanging Pact derps and whine live for your viewers' pleasure for 10 minutes straight is more likely.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

No. People are complaining that they run metric arseloads of people.

And yeah because it's the 20 VE breaking the server, not the 2+ stacked blue raids or 3+ stacked red raids. Whatever you say man. You're going to come to TF and get walked down by 72 twanging Pact derps and whine live for your viewers' pleasure for 10 minutes straight is more likely.

Id recommend removing AOE caps - but youd tell me removing AOE caps is not needed this patch anymore!

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Are people complaining that pact militia is too strong? You should blame @Jules for creating them. Additionally, they lack discipline and are easily broken. If you need Lord FENGRUSH to come set an example, please send word. Every visit to TF has been a disappointing lagfest. You guys need to stop breaking that server.

No. People are complaining that they run metric arseloads of people.

And yeah because it's the 20 VE breaking the server, not the 2+ stacked blue raids or 3+ stacked red raids. Whatever you say man. You're going to come to TF and get walked down by 72 twanging Pact derps and whine live for your viewers' pleasure for 10 minutes straight is more likely.

Id recommend removing AOE caps - but youd tell me removing AOE caps is not needed this patch anymore!

Removing the AOE caps is the only rational way to effect large groups that become immune to ground effects . It also means large groups will probably start running a lot of ground effects too . Seems like it's always a double edged sword and numbers always win .

God_flakes · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

Stfu, AOE. Go cry some more about Ve being called a Zerg.

FENGRUSH · June 2016

@PosternHouse is AOE BBQ? Your lack of the faith in The Lord is displeasing. What happened to the BBQ that we once knew?? Has his mind been tarnished forever?!

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

No that's not AOE . AOE has many a thesaurus at his disposal and would never post without $5 words in each sentence . It's probably AOE's second cousin twice removed on his mothers side through arranged marriage to a wealthy aristocrat . Let's not worry about the messenger but the message here .

PosternHouse · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

No that's not AOE . AOE has many a thesaurus at his disposal and would never post without $5 words in each sentence . It's probably AOE's second cousin twice removed on his mothers side through arranged marriage to a wealthy aristocrat . Let's not worry about the messenger but the message here .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

FENGRUSH · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

Stfu, AOE. Go cry some more about Ve being called a Zerg.

Personally, I prefer best guild in the game for the last year and a half, personally

FENGRUSH INC has been the best for more than 1.5years.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Ok guys this has turned into a "who faces a bigger Zerg?" argument. Everyone- including myself- has acknowledged that bombard in its current state is a problem, I just proposed changes that will keep the skill useful, or create an entirely new melee skill that is stam based and has an aoe root. I say effective in small groups against bigger groups, and then I'm told I'm wrong. Like ok, whatever. My experiences that have actually happened are wrong. People are acting like I don't know what a zerg is. What? We all play the same game- hell I used to run with VE and I still stick up for you guys in zone chat. But don't tell me I'm wrong and then accuse me of not recognizing that different people have different experiences. @Zheg

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2016

Yeah if AOE caps go, then so with it the zergs absolute important advantage. Zerg balling would be much much less optimal in that case.

PosternHouse · June 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

Stfu, AOE. Go cry some more about Ve being called a Zerg.

Personally, I prefer best guild in the game for the last year and a half, personally

FENGRUSH INC has been the best for more than 1.5years.

At self-promotion in all caps? (ARM was funnier anyways.) Yeah sure. There have been plenty of small group zerg busters that performed better.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

No that's not AOE . AOE has many a thesaurus at his disposal and would never post without $5 words in each sentence . It's probably AOE's second cousin twice removed on his mothers side through arranged marriage to a wealthy aristocrat . Let's not worry about the messenger but the message here .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Ouch . Why do you give me the brain pain so much ?

PosternHouse · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

No that's not AOE . AOE has many a thesaurus at his disposal and would never post without $5 words in each sentence . It's probably AOE's second cousin twice removed on his mothers side through arranged marriage to a wealthy aristocrat . Let's not worry about the messenger but the message here .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Ouch . Why do you give me the brain pain so much ?

I've been trying my best to keep things to two syllables or less to avoid causing you an aneurysm.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

You kids need to stop fighting and get back on the meta . The meta is root snares . I propose new counter measures . "Buttery Slippers" .

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Why can't things just go back to the way they use to be ? The days when Cyrodil had torchbugs and deer . Purge worked on everyone . People made fun of each other light heartedly and laughed about it instead of taking it seriously all the time . Everyone's so grumpy all the time now .

Fix purge or remove the AOE caps or take the root off bombard please .

FENGRUSH · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014 In no way does bombard benefit the small group more than the zerg when both are using it. Small groups can still bomb in chokes just fine. We've killed plenty of blue and red zergs without bombard. If anything, mobility is what smaller groups always relied on to take out the zerg and that was gutted with the rapid maneuvers nerf in TG. Bombard spam always benefits the side with obscene numbers, even moreso when they just spread out and start twanging nonstop. Wrobel at least realizes this meta is a problem because otherwise he wouldnt have done the mist form and forward momentum changes. Unfortunately he either thinks its good enough now or doesnt know what else to do because theyre so adamantly anti-group that theyd rather promote the mega zerg than give groups back a functional rapid maneuvers. Either way we're stuck with this garbage meta for probably at least another 4.5 months - the patch notes on pts have almost zero combat/balance changes.

Then how come the small group players are the only ones that want to keep the root on bombard? I'm sorry, but VE doesn't count as a small group and you can't say that bombard doesn't help small groups defeat zergs because, speaking from personal experience, yes it does.

Are you serious? Go listen to a pact militia stream or watch any fight in TF and then try telling me that again. You're a knowledgeable player, but all I can do is go "wtf" at that comment. You may use it effectively and likely how it's supposed to be used, but every single mega zerg that's been created since TG spreads out and spams it nonstop. They want it to stay in game far more than your 2-4 man.

Also, many of our groups have been 8-12 in size this month, fighting sometimes 40+ blue and red. You're not as up to speed as you'd like to think. And I never said it doesn't help kill zergs, I said that when both are using (which they always are) it always benefits zergs more than a small man. You really have no leg to stand on arguing against that, I'm sorry.

Thank you for not listening and trying to invalidate what I have to say. I never said VE was a zerg (I know you're sensitive about that) I just said you're not a small group- and you're not. Nor was it a personal attack, although you were pretty rude to me for no reason just now. Why do you assume that I am not being spammed with bombard? I run purge when I play, and since we usually run with 6 people or less, that hits everyone and gives us enough time to get out of the spam. Bombard is effective for small groups against larger numbers using it. If you can't accept what I'm saying as true because you can't counter bombard, then maybe you aren't as strong of a player as you think.

Because you're not fighting the megazerg Snu. Are you even playing on TF? Or on Haderus? Play on TF against pact militia and saramis and your points go right out the window. The fact that you say purge is effective just demonstrates that. I can spam my purify nonstop and walk all of 3m during a fight. I can't accept what you're saying as true because it's not true; you're not fighting the same fights we put up with every night.

There's a pact militia video from the other day. I held BRK for about half an hour with a group of around 16 (I think, vex may have recorded the fight and could confirm) against multiple pact militia raids, a small haxus group, and tons of random red pugs until I crashed and they made it to the inner. The points you're trying to make are irrelevant in those fights, and whether we like it or not, those fights are the meta. Most of the time their raid leads will literally shout "bombard spam! roots!" and you're trying to tell me that small groups are the only ones that want it to stay in the game? It's not accurate Snu, I'm sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B776eJpG6Z8

Dude. I meant in this thread. If that's the one point you disagree on- that small group players are the only ones that want to keep it- I meant in this thread- we are the only people arguing for it. I play on both trueflame and haderus FYI. I am well aware of what it's like fighting pact militia, and honestly it's pretty easy to take out a good chunk of them when you've got a healer and a few strong DPS - especially when they're spread out. But that's just me I guess. Even if we are talking about different fights, why is yours the "correct" one? I get zerged on both campaigns- Krotha emp squad, anyone? This isn't new.

This. PM is so dam bad, even I can put together a group of decent DC pugs and farm them for hours. And have! Ve bragging they can stave off wave after wave of PM is no great accomplishment. Sorry, Ve.

You don't farm anyone, Jauriel.

Stfu, AOE. Go cry some more about Ve being called a Zerg.

Personally, I prefer best guild in the game for the last year and a half, personally

FENGRUSH INC has been the best for more than 1.5years.

At self-promotion in all caps? (ARM was funnier anyways.) Yeah sure. There have been plenty of small group zerg busters that performed better.

ARM was for comedy. FENGRUSH INC has been a long standing organization the covenant has always respected and rallied behind. Your blasphemy shows that you are either not AOE BBQ or you have been fully indoctrinated into a hate cult that looks down on all small group players unable or unwilling to form trial sized groups or larger.