Getting Sick Of All The Murders In Town

BenLocoDete · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

Yes, this is just perfect, an implementation I'd love to see as well. If you're wrecked by a guard, you are sent to jail - where you can choose to spend your time and lose some progress, or roleplay that you are bored, sit around scream at the gate... get insane. This would pay a big tribute to TES games and force the criminals to be cautious and think about the consequences of their acts.

I'd definitely support this idea alongside a "Press X to report the crime" system based on the radius it is committed. Get players living in town to help and actively keep things civil - nothing more pertinent and fun than interact with the world you're playing in every way possible.

AmberLaTerra · June 2016

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the roleplay aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

The only thing against the roleplay aspects is the way the system is poorly implemented - murder and theft aren't to be left outside the game, but the world must react to them in a more logical way, not like "dead body, oh, it is me! I'll just get to do my things..."

I feel forced to roleplay a truly insane character, who sees people walking over their dead bodies, and thinks to himself he is seeing murders that will happen in the future. It is cool, I give you that, but not with every freaking character!

The NPC's standing over their own bodies is due to the difference between possible loot time and respawn time and would be easily solved by making bodies disappear once looted. This however would negatively effect skills and morphs like werewolf in dungeons that need to siphon stamina from or eat the bodies. Adding longer respawn time would on the other hand interfere with quests. So lets just assume to the NPC the dead body of their former life is not even there and it is just there for the use of the killer in loot or skills. Easy to adapt to.

As for those who want to report other players. That will never work. We already have trolls who just stand around in zone chat and troll that. Now imagine you are a brand new to the game player, you have 2 options to make money early in game. 1. Farm resources to sell. 2. Steal stuff and sell it. However these trolls camp every area where stuff can be stolen waiting to troll other players by reporting them to the guards while trolling chat as well. Now new players can only farm resources and the forums get flooded with posts about resources becoming to heavily farmed to get and the prices crashing from the amounts being farmed.

So yes you could have your fun reporting players to guards and such but in the process cut your own legs out from under you in the games economy great fix.

Or you could just choose to adapt and understand the reasons the bodies tend to remain longer then the respawn time and realize said NPC has no clue their body is there as in a single player game there would be no respawn until the body was gone but in an MMO other players need the same chance at that target so respawns by nature must be faster, but for the NPC's knowledge they have always been there and there is no body.

I would prefer to have the bodies on the ground over giving trolls the ability to target new players and drive them out of the game via that trolling while also destroying the economy anytime myself.

greylox · June 2016

Getting sick of murders is why we need justice system for players. It's hardly sneaky assassinating even though it's supposed to be the dark brotherhood and immersion wise seeing people just murder in plain sight with little care I could imagine jarring for rp'ers etc

The game shouldn't limit this any way, the players should, that's how mmo's should be. The achievement and title would be a lot harder if there was people roaming around looking for trouble makers....people might actually have to not rush through something and might realise it's fun doing it 'properly'.

When you are 'kill on sight' by the law, you should be open to being killed by players. If a player kills you within a certain time after snuffing your target (a 30 sec timer could come up on screen to get away, would be fun trying to avoid players for a set time, you could scout routes before the kill to try and outfox pursuers, incorporate more thieves guild-esque hiding spots), you fail because you're a poo assassin and have to do it again with a little forethought.

newtinmpls · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Players should be able to "witness" a crime, if a murder goes off within line of sight of them within a range comparable to NPC vision, a prompt should pop up to "report crime to the guard" or "turn a blind eye"

Awesome!!!! I want this in the Justice System!!

.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

Yes, this is just perfect, an implementation I'd love to see as well. If you're wrecked by a guard, you are sent to jail - where you can choose to spend your time and lose some progress, or roleplay that you are bored, sit around scream at the gate... get insane. This would pay a big tribute to TES games and force the criminals to be cautious and think about the consequences of their acts.

I'd definitely support this idea alongside a "Press X to report the crime" system based on the radius it is committed. Get players living in town to help and actively keep things civil - nothing more pertinent and fun than interact with the world you're playing in every way possible.

The possibility of jailbreak would be fun as well.

VodkaVixen1979 · June 2016

disintegr8 wrote: »

I had not put 2 and 2 together - I have been noticing more dead bodies than usual around towns but it did not even occur to me that if was for DB (on console here).

I am sure it will settle down to a 'normal' level once the initial rush is over. Maybe I should start on TG while everyone is busy on DB and then when I get to DB it won't be as crazy as it probably is now.

@disintegr8

That is actually a great idea to do TG before DB. Not only will it die down, but the TG skill line is REALLY helpful when doing DB, especially the quickly forgotten skill which lowers your bounty faster. Also you get leniency edits which reduce your bounty by a certain dollar amount. I have the one from the TG that forgives $100,000 bounty, but I can't imagine what I could do to incur such a bounty... killing everyone in Wayrest? Happy playing...

Lumenn · June 2016

Created a new character, khenarthis roost farms have almost everyone dead.....

Xylphan · June 2016

greylox wrote: »

...When you are 'kill on sight' by the law, you should be open to being killed by players...

The horse is dead. Stop beating it.

This has already been discussed ad nauseum. There is no player based justice system that is immune to:

a) Griefing/trolling
b) Exploiting

That's why it doesn't exist. That's why it was dropped. ZOS certainly does get things wrong, but in this case they got it 100% correct. You don't implement a PvP justice system in a game full of murdering sociopaths. :P

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2016

This idea of players witnessing a crime is silly to me. They talked about a pvp solution to criminals, but everyone one was all oh no, I might get killed, oh no it might be abused. Now everyone is all oh just let me witness the crime. I don't actually want to have any skin in the game. I just want to be able to stop other players from doing things I don't want them to do by just pressing a button. I don't want to actually try to stop them.

If you were to have a witness system, you sure as heck better have a bounty system. Where I can preform the sacrament and send an assassin after anyone who has witnessed my crime. And the assassin better be guard level. So if the guards are left unkillable, then so are the assassins. Fair is fair after all.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Players should be able to "witness" a crime, if a murder goes off within line of sight of them within a range comparable to NPC vision, a prompt should pop up to "report crime to the guard" or "turn a blind eye"

Awesome!!!! I want this in the Justice System!!

.

This would also be abused by players, making them just as bad or worse. Could lead to people stalking people and blackmailing them, aka griefing.

Jaronking · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

If you put them in jail they can just switch to one of their other characters and keep doing it.Also who would arrest them and put them in jail the guards?If its the guards the jail cells will be as empty as a hollow tree no one with be their because the guards as so easily to get away from.Players should be the one to arrest you and put you into prison so you can't escape.

MornaBaine · June 2016

Abeille wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There should be an option for me to turn off role players and their moral concerns about computer generated animated 3d objects with a texture.

Whoa don't blame roleplayers for this! We're usually among the first to long for more graphic everything! LOL

Same, although I wouldn't be against a separated RP server/phase.

NOT getting the RP Shard was perhaps my hugest disappointment with this game to date.

BenLocoDete · June 2016

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the roleplay aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

The only thing against the roleplay aspects is the way the system is poorly implemented - murder and theft aren't to be left outside the game, but the world must react to them in a more logical way, not like "dead body, oh, it is me! I'll just get to do my things..."

I feel forced to roleplay a truly insane character, who sees people walking over their dead bodies, and thinks to himself he is seeing murders that will happen in the future. It is cool, I give you that, but not with every freaking character!

The NPC's standing over their own bodies is due to the difference between possible loot time and respawn time and would be easily solved by making bodies disappear once looted. This however would negatively effect skills and morphs like werewolf in dungeons that need to siphon stamina from or eat the bodies. Adding longer respawn time would on the other hand interfere with quests. So lets just assume to the NPC the dead body of their former life is not even there and it is just there for the use of the killer in loot or skills. Easy to adapt to.

As for those who want to report other players. That will never work. We already have trolls who just stand around in zone chat and troll that. Now imagine you are a brand new to the game player, you have 2 options to make money early in game. 1. Farm resources to sell. 2. Steal stuff and sell it. However these trolls camp every area where stuff can be stolen waiting to troll other players by reporting them to the guards while trolling chat as well. Now new players can only farm resources and the forums get flooded with posts about resources becoming to heavily farmed to get and the prices crashing from the amounts being farmed.

So yes you could have your fun reporting players to guards and such but in the process cut your own legs out from under you in the games economy great fix.

Or you could just choose to adapt and understand the reasons the bodies tend to remain longer then the respawn time and realize said NPC has no clue their body is there as in a single player game there would be no respawn until the body was gone but in an MMO other players need the same chance at that target so respawns by nature must be faster, but for the NPC's knowledge they have always been there and there is no body.

I would prefer to have the bodies on the ground over giving trolls the ability to target new players and drive them out of the game via that trolling while also destroying the economy anytime myself.

I partially disagree with both approaches you mentioned - Ranting:

if I'll have to tell myself that that dead body doesn't exist, why shouldn't I instead take the money I intend to spend in the game and tell myself I'm having more fun keeping it in my wallet? I look to support ESO in the hopes it gets better and not to stay like it is, and from the rate of development we can expect it to change a lot because if we look at the beta~first build and the current, the game has changed a lot.

I don't see reporting and guarding the market/town as a trolling at all, actually, someone ignoring there are 10~35 people around witnessing their killings, looting and exploiting the game mechanics are the real trolls in this case. There is a big hole on these events and it is due to a cut out content.

The crime rampant is something completely understandable and adds to the game, offering more ways to play and roleplay your character, and to customize your experience immersing yourself into the game. But, as it was added later into the development stage,(and with parts of it cut out abruptly) it feels like the world presented before that feature was added does not coherently react to what is currently happening. None of the NPCs give a *** about people mass murdering and it is something that must be changed to further improve the immersion in the game. I look to something addressing that and the suggestions I made are purely illustrative but I really would like to have something done about it from ZOS.

In any way I understand that the chances of any suggestion being implemented are utterly small, but only if we think about it as a user request. I'm not looking at it as a personal wish, but in a way to address a poorly implemented mechanic that is causing more trouble as they add more features to it. And the problem, as the OP said, is that ZOS decided to reward players for mass murder(as if it wasn't bad enough without the DB grinding) and now the game mechanic flaw is even more explicit.

About that flaw, being able to report players ransacking NPCs and their stashes, or mass murdering in the plain light of day, is THE LEAST the game should provide in order to call it a fully implemented feature, since they decided they are not letting people to act as guards and get into disciplinary PvP instances.

If you ask me I'd suggest different ways to address this issue as I've posted in other threads:

NPC murdered:

- If in town: guard spawns nearby, or from a guard keep, and patrols that area where the NPC was killed. After a couple minutes, another NPC with a randomly generated appearance is ready to respawn and take that murdered NPC place and the guard moves back to the guard keep.
- Wilderness(farms and small villages): the body remains as usual but another NPC with randomly generated appearance spawns.

As for the economy, every game is the same, it is tough to start with, everyone is asking huge piles of money for good ingredients and such, but as you spend 15~50~250 hours into it, you've got plenty, you will come to the forums asking for more character slots more bank space crafting bag for premium etc. So it is just not a concern but I understand you might provide more reasons I'm wrong on that, and they're welcome.

qrichou · June 2016

pegi 18 ,.
nuff said

BenLocoDete · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Players should be able to "witness" a crime, if a murder goes off within line of sight of them within a range comparable to NPC vision, a prompt should pop up to "report crime to the guard" or "turn a blind eye"

Awesome!!!! I want this in the Justice System!!

.

This would also be abused by players, making them just as bad or worse. Could lead to people stalking people and blackmailing them, aka griefing.

There are plenty of griefing in Cyrodiil, don't really get why it should be left outside the game 'per se'.
Also, this is what makes Cyrodiil challenging and exciting and not absurdly boring as looting weak and dumb NPCs.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There should be an option for me to turn off role players and their moral concerns about computer generated animated 3d objects with a texture.

Whoa don't blame roleplayers for this! We're usually among the first to long for more graphic everything! LOL

Same, although I wouldn't be against a separated RP server/phase.

NOT getting the RP Shard was perhaps my hugest disappointment with this game to date.

This and having the full justice system dumped into the trashbin.

ZOS is awful at PR and executive planning. They advertise a feature at QuakenCon, causing a lot of hype that brings people to the game, just to later inform us that that top feature was dropped. They have done this for years.

Iluvrien · June 2016

BenLocoDete wrote: »

ZOS is awful at PR and executive planning. They advertise a feature at QuakenCon, causing a lot of hype that brings people to the game, just to later inform us that that top feature was dropped. They have done this for years.

Spellcrafting anyone?

BenLocoDete · June 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

BenLocoDete wrote: »

ZOS is awful at PR and executive planning. They advertise a feature at QuakenCon, causing a lot of hype that brings people to the game, just to later inform us that that top feature was dropped. They have done this for years.

Spellcrafting anyone?

Yup yup, except that we are probably getting spellcrafting at some point, not so sure with the RP shard and even less with any justice system revamp.

KrishakPanettier · June 2016

Ban all knives. That will fix it. Knives kill NPCs. Players don't.

waterfairy · June 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwBHM6XYxw

This is what people are getting so up in arms over? ha I had to Google to see for myself because some made it seem like it was so horrible and inappropriate for teens. It's not as if the assassin (bold for emphasis) is brutally disemboweling their target while they hold their innards screaming. It's a quick move and a flash of blood that looks very PG-13 to me...movies with that rating have had much more violent/graphic murders then this.

Runefang · June 2016

KrishakPanettier wrote: »

Ban all knives. That will fix it. Knives kill NPCs. Players don't.

I'd rather see background checks before you can buy a knife. If you've ever had a bounty then no knives for you.

Iluvrien · June 2016

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

BenLocoDete wrote: »

ZOS is awful at PR and executive planning. They advertise a feature at QuakenCon, causing a lot of hype that brings people to the game, just to later inform us that that top feature was dropped. They have done this for years.

Spellcrafting anyone?

Yup yup, except that we are probably getting spellcrafting at some point, not so sure with the RP shard and even less with any justice system revamp.

You think so? With The Konk gone, and no obvious development resources being pushed in that direction, I suspect that what we are seeing is ZOS intentionally not telling us that it isn't coming so as to retain the people with a slim hope that it may arrive.

Lysette · June 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

If you put them in jail they can just switch to one of their other characters and keep doing it.Also who would arrest them and put them in jail the guards?If its the guards the jail cells will be as empty as a hollow tree no one with be their because the guards as so easily to get away from.Players should be the one to arrest you and put you into prison so you can't escape.

There will be no pvp justice system, when do you get this?- it would make the issue just worse.

Edit. and it is absolutely no problem to implement that - guards get a new spell and you are in prison, simple as that.

zZzleepyhead · June 2016

The irony of this thread is so good.

newtinmpls · June 2016

I was going to try and quote... and I looked at the freakin' tangle of who said what and gave the whole thing up. But I think there are some really good ideas and concerns here.

so...

1-Report Crime (press X or whatever). I think that this could be cool; but not insta-troll, perhaps instead if it was limited to only be available as an option if you were literally right in front of a murder (i.e. otherwise you don't even see it) AND if the effect was NOT insta-arrest (good point, whoever said this would be trolled) but instead ... did something like raise some "suspicion" i.e. so many "reports" and there would be an increase in number of guards, or an increase in detecting someone's disreputable-ness . Something indirect, but an effect.

2-Sent to Jail. I think that there is already a pay fine/bounty or flee option; how about a "go to jail" option which even could have mini-quests of 1v1 or 1vX "meet the hardened criminals in jail" (and get dumped unconscious outside jail once sentence was over "brief") or "do X quest in Y time limit" to represent community service.

3-Jailbreak. Maybe a guild/DB functionality where you could have multi-person missions, and IF someone gets caught, the rest have the option to "rescue" him/her (not a huge long thing, but something).

thisisScoMan · June 2016

I like the ideas that are coming through about a jail.

I would probably spend most of my time in jail.

Just getting locked up on purpose, sitting in a cell singing "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows my sorrow"

newtinmpls · June 2016

thisisScoMan wrote: »

Just getting locked up on purpose, sitting in a cell singing "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows my sorrow"

A new emote????

Jaronking · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

If you put them in jail they can just switch to one of their other characters and keep doing it.Also who would arrest them and put them in jail the guards?If its the guards the jail cells will be as empty as a hollow tree no one with be their because the guards as so easily to get away from.Players should be the one to arrest you and put you into prison so you can't escape.

There will be no pvp justice system, when do you get this?- it would make the issue just worse.

Edit. and it is absolutely no problem to implement that - guards get a new spell and you are in prison, simple as that.

No it wouldn't it would actually fixed the issue because right now its nothing stopping people from breaking the law.Also this would be PVP in the sense that the other player has to knock you unconscious to arrest you.be it by a ability only player guards have or through battle.It also allow criminal a chance to escape.

Then players will complain about not being able to escape from the immortals guards.This will just cause ZOS to revert the change since it be unbalanced.

thisisScoMan · June 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

thisisScoMan wrote: »

Just getting locked up on purpose, sitting in a cell singing "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows my sorrow"

A new emote????

Maybe they could add the harmonica as a playable instrument. That would work too.

ADarklore · June 2016

Have to admit, I was just in Vulkhel Guard and there were tons of bodies laying all over, everywhere I went... was quite distracting actually because you couldn't help but stare.

Lysette · June 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Kenthros wrote: »

Really I would like to see a system for the crimes put in that kinda works like The Division. Agents that attacked other players became rogue and showed up on the map, giving incentives to other players to hunt them down. While on the flip side giving incentives for the rogue or rogues to stay alive and escape. I think a system like that would be awesome to help combat the crimes that we witness but can do nothing about. This is just a rough idea and tweaks would have to be made I think, but all and all if something like that was put in i think that would be pretty fun.

Put them in jail for some time - as long as they are imprisoned, they cannot murder - simple as that - it does not take pvp activity,which just would add misery.

If you put them in jail they can just switch to one of their other characters and keep doing it.Also who would arrest them and put them in jail the guards?If its the guards the jail cells will be as empty as a hollow tree no one with be their because the guards as so easily to get away from.Players should be the one to arrest you and put you into prison so you can't escape.

There will be no pvp justice system, when do you get this?- it would make the issue just worse.

Edit. and it is absolutely no problem to implement that - guards get a new spell and you are in prison, simple as that.

No it wouldn't it would actually fixed the issue because right now its nothing stopping people from breaking the law.Also this would be PVP in the sense that the other player has to knock you unconscious to arrest you.be it by a ability only player guards have or through battle.It also allow criminal a chance to escape.

Then players will complain about not being able to escape from the immortals guards.This will just cause ZOS to revert the change since it be unbalanced.

ZOS will not be that stupid to go against the majority of players - and those are not into PvP at all - they do not want to see or interfere with pvp activity. ZOS would shoot into their own foot, if they would alienate the majority of their player base.