Getting Sick Of All The Murders In Town

SK1TZ0FR3N1K · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the role-play aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

And, this is where you are wrong. It is a game...plain, and simple. You play it as a role-player, and I play it as a blood thirsty murder, with no morals. It's like this...you get upset that you have a hard time role-playing at the bank, or crafting station, while I run by you on a killing spree, well I get upset that I am trying to concentrate on my killing spree, while you are running around RP'ing that you are wiping your bum, or counting the coins in your bag.

I would have no problems with allowing players to call the guards when they witness a crime...as long as I can call the guards when I walk into an area where 2 people are erotic role-playing. Public *** should be just as illegal as murder, and thievery. Don't you think? Or, when people YELL...that's worth a guard chase. What about when I come into an area, and the RP is just really bad...I should be able to call the guards on that.

I log in everyday realizing that something I do when I play, probably ruins someone's immersion. What most of the people complaining, about their immersion being ruined, refuse to understand...is that your immersion ruins someone's gameplay for some reason, or another. You need to co-exist with us, the way we have to co-exist with you...until ZOS finally decides to give you your own RP server.

Also, I hate to tell you, but other than talking to the lady in the Thieves Guild to start the Dark Brotherhood quest line, your first real quest is to go and murder a random NPC for personal gain - admission into the Dark Brotherhood.

HaldaAinur · June 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

You seem to have taken what I said completely out of context...what I meant is that on the internet, particularly in a world wide multiplayer fantasy game, people are going to do that sort of thing for 'fun'. And no, that doesn't automatically make someone a psychopath- although the influence of such in game activities and if they'll turn someone psycho/influence a psycho to do immoral acts is certainly debatable -most of that is down to the person in particular, mental health mostly. Most people can tell the difference between a game and reality, and normally aren't influenced by a game to that extremity. It just happens to be that sometimes things fall into the wrong hands.

Mind you, I do get your concern though- certain individuals are likely to be heavily influenced by violent games, but that is down to the rating, and how well regulated the buying of a game rated M for Mature audiences is. I've yet to see ESO advertised as a family friendly game- the Mature rating is right there in the trailers, and on the box. Sure the trailer itself doesn't depict a massive amount of the violence and darker themes in the game, but I do think it is down to a matter of regulation and making sure such materials only fall into the hands of those who can handle them.

It's the same with a lot of media & it's ultimately unavoidable that people who are unstable in one way or another may access materials that may influence them more heavily than most people. It's sort of like how kids can easily get hold of very violent games/movies, despite efforts to prevent it. There's only so much that can be done until people accept that people CAN be affected by this sort of thing, and thus mature material needs to be regulated much more strictly, especially as you said, with the rise of violent crimes.

Long story short; people will kill for fun in a game, as horrible as it sounds, because it's fantasy, and most people know this and would never act as their character in a game would. There have been countless games based around killing- from shoot 'em ups to war games to mature games. There needs to be a certain limit, I agree, however I really do believe it's down to being able to tell fantasy apart from reality and stricter regulations. All you have to be is 18+ (or a kid with parents that don't pay attention) and any pyscho that happens to be an adult could get a game, and be influenced by it.

leshpar · June 2016

I think it would be awesome if players had an option to yell for a guard when they see a player committing a crime. I mean, why is it when I'm sneaking around and trying to steal things do I even have the option of not considering other players a threat? NPCs and players both should be able to report me.

Lysette · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It is just sad - in Oblivion the TG was a somewhat good organization, they stole, but they did not steal from the poor and it was more like a Robin Hood like thing, especially with the gray fox as their leader. In Sykrim they made the TG a guild of scums. The DB in Oblivion was a clearly sacred organization where the art of stealthy assassinations came with a special reward for when it was executed in a special way. In Skyrim that was already watered down and with a tendency to become scum. And now in ESO they are even more prone to be scum, instead to be what the guild should be - a sacred service to a divine being.

The Gray Fox also had a presence in the TG of Morrowind, the guild was more heroic in that era. I agree with you the Skyrim branch of TG felt like Vory, but I don't think that was necessarily incorrect. I think the thieves guild always had two sides to it, the Robin Hood types, and those more in league with bandits or mafia. The Thieves Guild is in fact a form of crime syndicate no matter how you look at it. My view of Dark Brotherhood was always a touch sour, but that's because of Morrowind I think. I'd like to point out their honor wasn't all that great, because they gave up trying to fill their contract once I killed the guy who called the hit on me. The Morag Tong always felt like more. I personally feel ESO and Skyrim both went a long way toward bringing the DB back. In Skyrim you were dealing with a guild that was on its last rope, and either dies or revives based on the protagonist/dragonborn. It stands to reason these last DB members were pretty weak or lost the faith. I personally thought this was the best DB plot I had done.

ESO's DB is pretty good as well, and I love their duel with a certain order of monks/priests. My only regret here is they didn't give us a choice between factions so we could play either side. The outcome could have ultimately been the same (a device TES games have used for over a decade). I think it was a lost opportunity personally, though I'm sure it saved them some cost and time, I think in this case you are talking about two iconic factions. It would have been worth it.

Just that the "good side" in regards to the TG are just mercenaries, who fight for the establishment - they are in no way better, they just steal in different ways, by exploitation and other means. So there is no good side IMO, both are neither good nor bad.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

Deadly gun violence is something every nation has to deal with on their civilians, America isn't alone in this fact. I can list numerous first world European countries with gun violence issues, as well as brutal stabbings and hackings. If I'm wrong please explain the Paris Theater murders, explain the airport murders in Belgium - and these were just in the last year, a lot of lower profile violence has gone on in those nations in the last year which I could name, of varying criminal natures. A good friend of mine lives in what is considered a very nice part of London, and he literally saw a man get hacked to pieces with a cleaver, if I remember correctly. Human beings can be violent, and violence happens, please don't bring this kind of agenda in here.

Please lets not get political about this, or bash nations over it, because you're liable to upset people, including me. I'm tired of hearing how much more civilized the European world is than America. If you like Europe so much please by all means go and live there. I like Europe as well but I prefer my own American way of life with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. I have a lot of friends that live out there, both online and in my personal life. I don't like violence of any kind, so please don't misunderstand that, but I actually think the right to bear arms is probably one of the most important checks and balances against the potential of a tyrannical government. The Magna Carta actually started this tradition in a sense by giving the Barons the strength to fight back against the King theoretically at least. Sometimes the threat of reprisal can be enough to stop abuse - and I've seen this in my dealings on the playground all the way through to my life as an adult in business. The US sprung out of abusive British rule. The reason many people support gun ownership is not because we believe random shootings are a good thing, but because we believe it actually promotes a more civil society. Anyone who thinks life isn't fragile is either ignorant or selling a line. You can disagree with me on this matter, and that's fine with me but please don't conflate video game violence with the Orlando murders that were clearly inspired by jihad. I will by the way add that I do believe video game violence has the potential to go a long way toward psychologically mapping or rewiring people toward certain violent behaviors, likely with a certain level of cold detachment. I think it really depends on the person, and it is actually worth study. I also believe in general liberty, as long as people own their mistakes and failures and pay the consequences for said failures.

My apologies if I come off as chewing your head off here, its not my intention but I'm getting sick of people parroting this nonsense, and I don't like coming to the forums and reading it. My only point in replying to it was that I find it greatly insulting that people assume the issue hasn't been considered on the 'pro-gun' side because 'guns 'er bad m'kay'. The entire political environment has gotten toxic enough without having to read it here. People don't converse any more and the vitriol has really gotten out of control in my view. Please do also realize that in my work life I have to hear people parroting this debate all the time, and I'm getting awfully tired of having to listen and smile when I think what they're saying is nonsense and potentially dangerous. I personally feel the last 20 years of American governance has seen a significant slide away from Constitutionality or an attempt to twist the same, so I do feel that Tyrrany can happen. With the options we have available to us this coming year I'm particularly sickened in this regard. None of the major candidates seem to care anything about the principles the US stands on, standing purely on agenda at best, or personal gain at worst (no one can really know). So yes I really don't appreciate this topic coming up, but I also realize you're just making a commentary. I'm just making my own because honestly I feel like my point of view is being drowned out and I'm pretty well tired of it.

The next point is that this is not a 'family friendly MMO' by any stretch. The only popular MMO I'm aware of that is more sick is TSW. ESO tries to gloss over the dark elements and put a foggy lense on it, but lets face it: daedra want to oppress people for eternity and do, murder is rampant, theft is rampant, mages have no compunction about sucking out the souls of animals and 'lesser races' and burning them up for their magical toys, ***, incest, clone-incest, drug use, cannibalism, ritual-cannibalism, torture, brothels, slavery, slave-brothels... While the game doesn't have a lot of gore, there are plenty of themes that can turn the stomach if you're paying attention. Some people revel in the darkness, and other people recognize it for a reflection of issues in reality, that's just the way it is in a scenario like this. This game is R-rated if we're going to make a movie analogy, so expect what you see.

deathbyk1te · June 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

I'm sorry but since when is ESO a "family MMO"?

Lysette · June 2016

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the role-play aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

And, this is where you are wrong. It is a game...plain, and simple. You play it as a role-player, and I play it as a blood thirsty murder, with no morals. It's like this...you get upset that you have a hard time role-playing at the bank, or crafting station, while I run by you on a killing spree, well I get upset that I am trying to concentrate on my killing spree, while you are running around RP'ing that you are wiping your bum, or counting the coins in your bag.

I would have no problems with allowing players to call the guards when they witness a crime...as long as I can call the guards when I walk into an area where 2 people are erotic role-playing. Public *** should be just as illegal as murder, and thievery. Don't you think? Or, when people YELL...that's worth a guard chase. What about when I come into an area, and the RP is just really bad...I should be able to call the guards on that.

I log in everyday realizing that something I do when I play, probably ruins someone's immersion. What most of the people complaining, about their immersion being ruined, refuse to understand...is that your immersion ruins someone's gameplay for some reason, or another. You need to co-exist with us, the way we have to co-exist with you...until ZOS finally decides to give you your own RP server.

Also, I hate to tell you, but other than talking to the lady in the Thieves Guild to start the Dark Brotherhood quest line, your first real quest is to go and murder a random NPC for personal gain - admission into the Dark Brotherhood.

Yes, but you seem to not remember how Lucian LaChance explained it in Oblivion. They recruit those who can kill in cold blood, and integrate them into the "family", which is serving Sithis and the Nightmother. From now on, they are no longer murderers, but assassins who will put their talents in favor of a divine cause - there is equality in this, everyone can do the ritual and eventually get someone killed. If this would be real, a lot would be nicer to each other, to not become a target. I see the purpose of the guild as a good one, it would make people be more careful with each other, if that would be real.

xilfxlegion · June 2016

HaldaAinur wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

You seem to have taken what I said completely out of context...what I meant is that on the internet, particularly in a world wide multiplayer fantasy game, people are going to do that sort of thing for 'fun'. And no, that doesn't automatically make someone a psychopath- although the influence of such in game activities and if they'll turn someone psycho/influence a psycho to do immoral acts is certainly debatable -most of that is down to the person in particular, mental health mostly. Most people can tell the difference between a game and reality, and normally aren't influenced by a game to that extremity. It just happens to be that sometimes things fall into the wrong hands.

Mind you, I do get your concern though- certain individuals are likely to be heavily influenced by violent games, but that is down to the rating, and how well regulated the buying of a game rated M for Mature audiences is. I've yet to see ESO advertised as a family friendly game- the Mature rating is right there in the trailers, and on the box. Sure the trailer itself doesn't depict a massive amount of the violence and darker themes in the game, but I do think it is down to a matter of regulation and making sure such materials only fall into the hands of those who can handle them.

It's the same with a lot of media & it's ultimately unavoidable that people who are unstable in one way or another may access materials that may influence them more heavily than most people. It's sort of like how kids can easily get hold of very violent games/movies, despite efforts to prevent it. There's only so much that can be done until people accept that people CAN be affected by this sort of thing, and thus mature material needs to be regulated much more strictly, especially as you said, with the rise of violent crimes.

Long story short; people will kill for fun in a game, as horrible as it sounds, because it's fantasy, and most people know this and would never act as their character in a game would. There have been countless games based around killing- from shoot 'em ups to war games to mature games. There needs to be a certain limit, I agree, however I really do believe it's down to being able to tell fantasy apart from reality and stricter regulations. All you have to be is 18+ (or a kid with parents that don't pay attention) and any pyscho that happens to be an adult could get a game, and be influenced by it.

i agree with a lot of this.

to wit -- as far as gun violence goes --- america ranks around 30th in the world. you wouldnt know that by watching the news because it doesnt fit their narrative.

also, i remember when i was young, and they did all kinds of studies on the ALLEGED effects of violent video games. they had 100 kids play mortal combat for an hour, and 100 kids play mario for an hour --- they found that the kids that played mario were more aggravated than the ones that played mortal combat.

the way i see it ---- if someone can blame a game for their actions in real life --- you have to look at crappy parenting, or someone using games as a scapegoat.

Potenza · June 2016

deathbyk1te wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

I'm sorry but since when is ESO a "family MMO"?

Yea, where the heck are people getting this "Family MMO" thing - it never was or should be. Maybe someone can "make" it their "family MMO" but don't force it on others because that's how you want to play.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

You seem to have taken what I said completely out of context...what I meant is that on the internet, particularly in a world wide multiplayer fantasy game, people are going to do that sort of thing for 'fun'. And no, that doesn't automatically make someone a psychopath- although the influence of such in game activities and if they'll turn someone psycho/influence a psycho to do immoral acts is certainly debatable -most of that is down to the person in particular, mental health mostly. Most people can tell the difference between a game and reality, and normally aren't influenced by a game to that extremity. It just happens to be that sometimes things fall into the wrong hands.

Mind you, I do get your concern though- certain individuals are likely to be heavily influenced by violent games, but that is down to the rating, and how well regulated the buying of a game rated M for Mature audiences is. I've yet to see ESO advertised as a family friendly game- the Mature rating is right there in the trailers, and on the box. Sure the trailer itself doesn't depict a massive amount of the violence and darker themes in the game, but I do think it is down to a matter of regulation and making sure such materials only fall into the hands of those who can handle them.

It's the same with a lot of media & it's ultimately unavoidable that people who are unstable in one way or another may access materials that may influence them more heavily than most people. It's sort of like how kids can easily get hold of very violent games/movies, despite efforts to prevent it. There's only so much that can be done until people accept that people CAN be affected by this sort of thing, and thus mature material needs to be regulated much more strictly, especially as you said, with the rise of violent crimes.

Long story short; people will kill for fun in a game, as horrible as it sounds, because it's fantasy, and most people know this and would never act as their character in a game would. There have been countless games based around killing- from shoot 'em ups to war games to mature games. There needs to be a certain limit, I agree, however I really do believe it's down to being able to tell fantasy apart from reality and stricter regulations. All you have to be is 18+ (or a kid with parents that don't pay attention) and any pyscho that happens to be an adult could get a game, and be influenced by it.

i agree with a lot of this.

to wit -- as far as gun violence goes --- america ranks around 30th in the world. you wouldnt know that by watching the news because it doesnt fit their narrative.

also, i remember when i was young, and they did all kinds of studies on the ALLEGED effects of violent video games. they had 100 kids play mortal combat for an hour, and 100 kids play mario for an hour --- they found that the kids that played mario were more aggravated than the ones that played mortal combat.

the way i see it ---- if someone can blame a game for their actions in real life --- you have to look at crappy parenting, or someone using games as a scapegoat.

I think if video games and tv become the mother and father of a child, of course you're going to have a neurotic child with probable violent tendencies. The real issue here is that such a child is being neglected and is not given a balanced understanding of life OUTSIDE entertainment. I think this is where the psychological damage can be done, because repetitive behaviors and visualization are in fact a strong way to map the brain. I think the big/core issue here is the other balance of the equation which is perspective. If people have proper perspective, it should not be a problem.

Malpherian · June 2016

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Yes, I must admit it's all a bit silly; standing around whilst seeing others get murdered. There was one player in Wayrest the other day, they went from NPC to NPC murdering one after another in the middle of the day.

It's a perfect example of game mechanics - that might work fine in single-player games - completely missing the mark when it comes to a multiplayer platform. Something does need to be done. I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to attack these players if we see (are flagged to have seen) them murder someone.

And that's making no mention of all the corpses lying about still after the NPCs have re-spawned. It's fairly amateurish, ESO development should have done better.

You should be aware that if the original Justice System which contained a PLayer involved Guard system, This would not be an issue. ZOE scrapped it.

The thing about it was it's an easy system, PLayer attacks an NPC and you "Witness it" They get flagged to you and you can either attack them or inform a guard.

Apparently introducing these "Simple" mechanics, which I could do with my frakin eyes closed (and have on private servers for other games), apparently ZOE which has 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars to hire professional developer... Can't ford to produce work a self taught amateur could.

I have no hope for ESO, as long as ZOE is in Charge. The game will continue to degrade and fail untill they have to shut the servers down.. and honestly... Good Riddance. It's an insult to TES games anyway. Give it to another publisher, or Bethesda.. Take it back from ZOS and do it yourself... We'd wait another 5 years for TES VI if you all will promise to fix this piece of garbage ZOS has created.

Whiphid · June 2016

Sure... I'll stop murdering random people every now and then if the rest of the "population" of the town stops spamming spels at the wayshrine, at the market, at the bank and all the other random places. Talking about breaking immersion...

Or maybe they should implement a system to report "dangerous spellcasters" to the guards as well?
And naked people.
And elves in the DC.

Jaronking · June 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

What are you talking about its PVEr who are greifing each other in this thread.Is PVPers are just sitting around laughing because we told you all this would happen.You all are causing more grief to each other then we could have possibly done.

Lysette · June 2016

Games like this are not in vain rated M - they are not supposed to be played by minors, who are still learning about how the world functions. They might get a distorted perception by this, because they cannot separate roleplay from reality in the same way as an adult can do it. The same goes to p*orn basically as well. It distorts the perception at an age, where this is not appropriate, and that is why so many have a problem to find a girl friend - they expect something what is not real.

Malpherian · June 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »
Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

What are you talking about? Griefing would not be possible with the justice system as it was intended.

The only people you could attack were criminals, So.. how is this griefing?.... And lets be real here, you want to steal or murder people.. You can cheese the NPC guards all you want. But you can't Cheese a player.

If your caught doing a crime, you should be able to be attacked for it. Period. You don;t want to be attacked? Get sneakier, or Be a law abiding citizen, It's that simple.

Jaronking · June 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

Its really not a family MMO its rated M for Mature.Your children shouldn't be playing this game,unless their 17 and older.

Lysette · June 2016

Malpherian wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »
Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

What are you talking about? Griefing would not be possible with the justice system as it was intended.

The only people you could attack were criminals, So.. how is this griefing?.... And lets be real here, you want to steal or murder people.. You can cheese the NPC guards all you want. But you can't Cheese a player.

If your caught doing a crime, you should be able to be attacked for it. Period. You don;t want to be attacked? Get sneakier, or Be a law abiding citizen, It's that simple.

Or just stand there waiting to be killed by a player - all good then, you are cleansed from it and can go on - I see no point in it in a game, where you respawn immediately.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

For the most part I don't think PVPers necessarily cared about a "justice system" per se We don't spend a whole lot of time out in the towns watching people pick chests and murder civilians. we might have went along with it "who gonna say no to small scale pvp Implementation?" but we weren't advocating for it to happen. that was PVE vs PVE players duking it out and the kids sitting in their Safe space with kittens and puppies won.

Mureel · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

Deadly gun violence is something every nation has to deal with on their civilians, America isn't alone in this fact. I can list numerous first world European countries with gun violence issues, as well as brutal stabbings and hackings. If I'm wrong please explain the Paris Theater murders, explain the airport murders in Belgium - and these were just in the last year, a lot of lower profile violence has gone on in those nations in the last year which I could name, of varying criminal natures. A good friend of mine lives in what is considered a very nice part of London, and he literally saw a man get hacked to pieces with a cleaver, if I remember correctly. Human beings can be violent, and violence happens, please don't bring this kind of agenda in here.

Please lets not get political about this, or bash nations over it, because you're liable to upset people, including me. I'm tired of hearing how much more civilized the European world is than America. If you like Europe so much please by all means go and live there. I like Europe as well but I prefer my own American way of life with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. I have a lot of friends that live out there, both online and in my personal life. I don't like violence of any kind, so please don't misunderstand that, but I actually think the right to bear arms is probably one of the most important checks and balances against the potential of a tyrannical government. The Magna Carta actually started this tradition in a sense by giving the Barons the strength to fight back against the King theoretically at least. Sometimes the threat of reprisal can be enough to stop abuse - and I've seen this in my dealings on the playground all the way through to my life as an adult in business. The US sprung out of abusive British rule. The reason many people support gun ownership is not because we believe random shootings are a good thing, but because we believe it actually promotes a more civil society. Anyone who thinks life isn't fragile is either ignorant or selling a line. You can disagree with me on this matter, and that's fine with me but please don't conflate video game violence with the Orlando murders that were clearly inspired by jihad. I will by the way add that I do believe video game violence has the potential to go a long way toward psychologically mapping or rewiring people toward certain violent behaviors, likely with a certain level of cold detachment. I think it really depends on the person, and it is actually worth study. I also believe in general liberty, as long as people own their mistakes and failures and pay the consequences for said failures.

My apologies if I come off as chewing your head off here, its not my intention but I'm getting sick of people parroting this nonsense, and I don't like coming to the forums and reading it. My only point in replying to it was that I find it greatly insulting that people assume the issue hasn't been considered on the 'pro-gun' side because 'guns 'er bad m'kay'. The entire political environment has gotten toxic enough without having to read it here. People don't converse any more and the vitriol has really gotten out of control in my view. Please do also realize that in my work life I have to hear people parroting this debate all the time, and I'm getting awfully tired of having to listen and smile when I think what they're saying is nonsense and potentially dangerous. I personally feel the last 20 years of American governance has seen a significant slide away from Constitutionality or an attempt to twist the same, so I do feel that Tyrrany can happen. With the options we have available to us this coming year I'm particularly sickened in this regard. None of the major candidates seem to care anything about the principles the US stands on, standing purely on agenda at best, or personal gain at worst (no one can really know). So yes I really don't appreciate this topic coming up, but I also realize you're just making a commentary. I'm just making my own because honestly I feel like my point of view is being drowned out and I'm pretty well tired of it.

The next point is that this is not a 'family friendly MMO' by any stretch. The only popular MMO I'm aware of that is more sick is TSW. ESO tries to gloss over the dark elements and put a foggy lense on it, but lets face it: daedra want to oppress people for eternity and do, murder is rampant, theft is rampant, mages have no compunction about sucking out the souls of animals and 'lesser races' and burning them up for their magical toys, ***, incest, clone-incest, drug use, cannibalism, ritual-cannibalism, torture, brothels, slavery, slave-brothels... While the game doesn't have a lot of gore, there are plenty of themes that can turn the stomach if you're paying attention. Some people revel in the darkness, and other people recognize it for a reflection of issues in reality, that's just the way it is in a scenario like this. This game is R-rated if we're going to make a movie analogy, so expect what you see.

And it's against TOS to discuss real World blah blah like politics, news etc. so no one shiould be bringing that up in the first place.

Potenza · June 2016

Whiphid wrote: »

Sure... I'll stop murdering random people every now and then if the rest of the "population" of the town stops spamming spels at the wayshrine, at the market, at the bank and all the other random places. Talking about breaking immersion...

Or maybe they should implement a system to report "dangerous spellcasters" to the guards as well?
And naked people.
And elves in the DC.

lol Yes, this!

Lysette · June 2016

To me the issue is not about violence at all, but about a broken perception of what the Dark Brotherhood is and should be. The implementation has flaws, which go against the purpose and intention of this guild like outlined in former TES games.

I serve in the DB for a good and just divine cause, it is brutal in it's ways, but it is not judging people, but is available to all and it could balance out good against bad, neither too good nor too bad has a real chance to "survive" with the DB in place - it creates balance and leads to more equality - I see it as a good cause and I want to be able to be proud of the guild - I don't want it to be a club of murderers, who murder random NPCs, but who serve a just divine being for a greater and just cause. It is just not legal, but law was never about justice.

Ritzey01 · June 2016

Avalon wrote: »

I think part of the problem is the 'aimless murdering'. Kill 20 people... Which 20? The Dark Brotherhood doesn't kill random people. They kill those targeted by the sacrament, those contracted otherwise, and those who have gotten in the way and need removed. Never randomly. One of the most common 'contracts' I've gotten is 'Kill 3 Citizens in X-Area'... Soooo... Either ZOS did the DB completely wrong, or someone keeps doing the sacrament to kill randomly? No...

The contracts should have been handled more like the TG bounty board: kill X-npc in first area, return for minor reward or go kill Y-npc in next area, return for moderate reward or kill Z-npc in third area, return for maximum reward. Or, kill X-npc in their house, for maximum reward- don't be detected, kill all servants as well. Stuff like that. The DB isn't a great-club crushing entire areas randomly, they are daggers striking precisely and surgically.

I like the idea of the quest being like the TG board quest....good idea!

Jaronking · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

To me the issue is not about violence at all, but about a broken perception of what the Dark Brotherhood is and should be. The implementation has flaws, which go against the purpose and intention of this guild like outlined in former TES games.

Personal I like the DB in this game unlike the TG ZOS completely destroyed that guild and made me hate them.DB they did a good job of making you understand their motivation and told a good story in IMO showed to be more then just murders.They were fighting to protect their family.

Lysette · June 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

To me the issue is not about violence at all, but about a broken perception of what the Dark Brotherhood is and should be. The implementation has flaws, which go against the purpose and intention of this guild like outlined in former TES games.

Personal I like the DB in this game unlike the TG ZOS completely destroyed that guild and made me hate them.DB they did a good job of making you understand their motivation and told a good story in IMO showed to be more then just murders.They were fighting to protect their family.

I have edited my statement and gave another reason, why I see the DB as a just and good guild - just not a legal one.

SK1TZ0FR3N1K · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the role-play aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

And, this is where you are wrong. It is a game...plain, and simple. You play it as a role-player, and I play it as a blood thirsty murder, with no morals. It's like this...you get upset that you have a hard time role-playing at the bank, or crafting station, while I run by you on a killing spree, well I get upset that I am trying to concentrate on my killing spree, while you are running around RP'ing that you are wiping your bum, or counting the coins in your bag.

I would have no problems with allowing players to call the guards when they witness a crime...as long as I can call the guards when I walk into an area where 2 people are erotic role-playing. Public *** should be just as illegal as murder, and thievery. Don't you think? Or, when people YELL...that's worth a guard chase. What about when I come into an area, and the RP is just really bad...I should be able to call the guards on that.

I log in everyday realizing that something I do when I play, probably ruins someone's immersion. What most of the people complaining, about their immersion being ruined, refuse to understand...is that your immersion ruins someone's gameplay for some reason, or another. You need to co-exist with us, the way we have to co-exist with you...until ZOS finally decides to give you your own RP server.

Also, I hate to tell you, but other than talking to the lady in the Thieves Guild to start the Dark Brotherhood quest line, your first real quest is to go and murder a random NPC for personal gain - admission into the Dark Brotherhood.

Yes, but you seem to not remember how Lucian LaChance explained it in Oblivion. They recruit those who can kill in cold blood, and integrate them into the "family", which is serving Sithis and the Nightmother. From now on, they are no longer murderers, but assassins who will put their talents in favor of a divine cause - there is equality in this, everyone can do the ritual and eventually get someone killed. If this would be real, a lot would be nicer to each other, to not become a target. I see the purpose of the guild as a good one, it would make people be more careful with each other, if that would be real.

Yes, but he also stated:
"Have you not heard of the Dark Brotherhood? Of the remorseless guild of paid assassins and homicidal cutthroats? Join us and you'll find the Dark Brotherhood all that and so much more. We are more than anything a union of like minded individuals." ―Lucien Lachance
I am of the "homicidal cutthroat" variety, when I play any ES game.

But let's get back to the point of the OP. The OP has an issue with their "immersion" being broken, by all of the dead bodies and killers running around. That's fine, but your "immersion" is no more important than my "FUN". You have to deal with me, the same way I have to deal with you.

Abeille · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

To me the issue is not about violence at all, but about a broken perception of what the Dark Brotherhood is and should be. The implementation has flaws, which go against the purpose and intention of this guild like outlined in former TES games.

I disagree completely. The implementation is exactly like in other TES games: You get your contracts and you fulfill them to send a soul to Sithis. But, exactly like in other TES games, you can go on a murder spree without a contract if you wish (and you can get a bounty for it if caught). In no TES game you are ever reprehended by the Dark Brotherhood for going on a murder spree - a soul for Sithis is a soul for Sithis. The only difference is that this is a MMO, so you see other people going on murder sprees, while in a single game it is only you choosing if you want to kill everyone or just stick to your contracts.

All the members of the Dark Brotherhood in ESO are followers of Sithis. They follow the Tenets and send souls to the Void in the name of Sithis. You can ask most of them.

babedenny · June 2016

This one just received contract for OP

Lysette · June 2016

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the role-play aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

And, this is where you are wrong. It is a game...plain, and simple. You play it as a role-player, and I play it as a blood thirsty murder, with no morals. It's like this...you get upset that you have a hard time role-playing at the bank, or crafting station, while I run by you on a killing spree, well I get upset that I am trying to concentrate on my killing spree, while you are running around RP'ing that you are wiping your bum, or counting the coins in your bag.

I would have no problems with allowing players to call the guards when they witness a crime...as long as I can call the guards when I walk into an area where 2 people are erotic role-playing. Public *** should be just as illegal as murder, and thievery. Don't you think? Or, when people YELL...that's worth a guard chase. What about when I come into an area, and the RP is just really bad...I should be able to call the guards on that.

I log in everyday realizing that something I do when I play, probably ruins someone's immersion. What most of the people complaining, about their immersion being ruined, refuse to understand...is that your immersion ruins someone's gameplay for some reason, or another. You need to co-exist with us, the way we have to co-exist with you...until ZOS finally decides to give you your own RP server.

Also, I hate to tell you, but other than talking to the lady in the Thieves Guild to start the Dark Brotherhood quest line, your first real quest is to go and murder a random NPC for personal gain - admission into the Dark Brotherhood.

Yes, but you seem to not remember how Lucian LaChance explained it in Oblivion. They recruit those who can kill in cold blood, and integrate them into the "family", which is serving Sithis and the Nightmother. From now on, they are no longer murderers, but assassins who will put their talents in favor of a divine cause - there is equality in this, everyone can do the ritual and eventually get someone killed. If this would be real, a lot would be nicer to each other, to not become a target. I see the purpose of the guild as a good one, it would make people be more careful with each other, if that would be real.

Yes, but he also stated:
"Have you not heard of the Dark Brotherhood? Of the remorseless guild of paid assassins and homicidal cutthroats? Join us and you'll find the Dark Brotherhood all that and so much more. We are more than anything a union of like minded individuals." ―Lucien Lachance
I am of the "homicidal cutthroat" variety, when I play any ES game.

But let's get back to the point of the OP. The OP has an issue with their "immersion" being broken, by all of the dead bodies and killers running around. That's fine, but your "immersion" is no more important than my "FUN". You have to deal with me, the same way I have to deal with you.

Yes, I am not saying that you would play in the wrong way, I am saying that the implementation is flawed in that it allows to use the sacred blade of Woe for other purposes than to assassinate a target, which is part of a contract based on the ritual and accepted by Sithis. I want the blade of Woe just be used for this sole purpose - and not to randomly kill anyone around.

chaserstorm16909 · June 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

Well, we recently had a bit of an influx of Black Sacraments that have been performed. So ofc we had to dispatch as many of our Brothers and Sisters as we could.

Our sincerest apologies from the Dark Brotherhood for ruining your immersion

Hail Sithis

Hail indeed!

Abeille · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I love my Blade of Woe Zos! Don't change a thing!

Thank you.

It can be fun, I give you that - but it is against the role-play aspect of ESO - this is a role play game and this behavior to murder random NPC just for personal gain is not what the DB is like - these kind of people should be expelled from the guild and the blade of Woe taken from them. They do not deserve the divine power granted to them.

And, this is where you are wrong. It is a game...plain, and simple. You play it as a role-player, and I play it as a blood thirsty murder, with no morals. It's like this...you get upset that you have a hard time role-playing at the bank, or crafting station, while I run by you on a killing spree, well I get upset that I am trying to concentrate on my killing spree, while you are running around RP'ing that you are wiping your bum, or counting the coins in your bag.

I would have no problems with allowing players to call the guards when they witness a crime...as long as I can call the guards when I walk into an area where 2 people are erotic role-playing. Public *** should be just as illegal as murder, and thievery. Don't you think? Or, when people YELL...that's worth a guard chase. What about when I come into an area, and the RP is just really bad...I should be able to call the guards on that.

I log in everyday realizing that something I do when I play, probably ruins someone's immersion. What most of the people complaining, about their immersion being ruined, refuse to understand...is that your immersion ruins someone's gameplay for some reason, or another. You need to co-exist with us, the way we have to co-exist with you...until ZOS finally decides to give you your own RP server.

Also, I hate to tell you, but other than talking to the lady in the Thieves Guild to start the Dark Brotherhood quest line, your first real quest is to go and murder a random NPC for personal gain - admission into the Dark Brotherhood.

Yes, but you seem to not remember how Lucian LaChance explained it in Oblivion. They recruit those who can kill in cold blood, and integrate them into the "family", which is serving Sithis and the Nightmother. From now on, they are no longer murderers, but assassins who will put their talents in favor of a divine cause - there is equality in this, everyone can do the ritual and eventually get someone killed. If this would be real, a lot would be nicer to each other, to not become a target. I see the purpose of the guild as a good one, it would make people be more careful with each other, if that would be real.

Yes, but he also stated:
"Have you not heard of the Dark Brotherhood? Of the remorseless guild of paid assassins and homicidal cutthroats? Join us and you'll find the Dark Brotherhood all that and so much more. We are more than anything a union of like minded individuals." ―Lucien Lachance
I am of the "homicidal cutthroat" variety, when I play any ES game.

But let's get back to the point of the OP. The OP has an issue with their "immersion" being broken, by all of the dead bodies and killers running around. That's fine, but your "immersion" is no more important than my "FUN". You have to deal with me, the same way I have to deal with you.

Yes, I am not saying that you would play in the wrong way, I am saying that the implementation is flawed in that it allows to use the sacred blade of Woe for other purposes than to assassinate a target, which is part of a contract based on the ritual and accepted by Sithis. I want the blade of Woe just be used for this sole purpose - and not to randomly kill anyone around.

The Blade of Woe in other games, despite not being the same Blade of Woe in ESO (which is conjured upon need) but actually a physical weapon, can be used to kill literally anything - from skeevers to giants. I actually think that because of that, its use in this game is much closer to its actual purpose.