Getting Sick Of All The Murders In Town

xilfxlegion · June 2016

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Vulkhel Guard used to be a peaceful town. Ya, there was the occasional thief here and there. That was fine. Also there was the occasional new player who would accidentally attack an npc and cause a ruckus. But it rarely happened. It used to be a nice vibrant town to get immersed in. The whole atmosphere was peaceful. But now you can't go a minute without hearing people getting murdered all around you. I'm trying to do some crafting, some trading, organize my items at the banker, all the while people are getting murdered all around me. Corpses lying on the streets and avenues. This applies to every towns I visit.

I'm so sick of this. It's at odds with the whole ambient of the place. Ruins my immersion. If the town's were designed to be seedy dangerous places crawling with thieves and murderers, and the atmosphere build around that, I'd be fine with it. But they're not. They were designed to be peaceful lawful vibrant towns full of life. Which motivates the player to spend hours doing these quests to save the town from threats that would destroy it, and return a hero. But now you return to a town full of players murdering NPCs in plain site and you can't do anything about it. They just walk over to the next NPC and continue killing. What's the point? I guess players are doing it to get some lame achievement. But this is stupid. I can't attack them. Can't do anything about it. And it looks like its real easy for players to go on these killing sprees. How is this even fun?

Can we introduce some method of allowing players to report and sick guards on other players who kill NPCs? I'm sure the people going on these murdering sprees would appreciate the extra challenge.

WE NEED KNIFE CONTROL! NOW! LMAO

rotaugen454 · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

Indeed, especially because the wrong kind of people want to be law enforcers - they are not lawful people in the first place.

Like in the movie Silverado, where the bad guys were the law in town.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

resized_the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world-meme-generator-i-don-t-always-murder-people-but-when-i-do-there-are-no-witnesses-7938fb.jpg

Avalon · June 2016

I think part of the problem is the 'aimless murdering'. Kill 20 people... Which 20? The Dark Brotherhood doesn't kill random people. They kill those targeted by the sacrament, those contracted otherwise, and those who have gotten in the way and need removed. Never randomly. One of the most common 'contracts' I've gotten is 'Kill 3 Citizens in X-Area'... Soooo... Either ZOS did the DB completely wrong, or someone keeps doing the sacrament to kill randomly? No...

The contracts should have been handled more like the TG bounty board: kill X-npc in first area, return for minor reward or go kill Y-npc in next area, return for moderate reward or kill Z-npc in third area, return for maximum reward. Or, kill X-npc in their house, for maximum reward- don't be detected, kill all servants as well. Stuff like that. The DB isn't a great-club crushing entire areas randomly, they are daggers striking precisely and surgically.

Potenza · June 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Vulkhel Guard used to be a peaceful town. Ya, there was the occasional thief here and there. That was fine. Also there was the occasional new player who would accidentally attack an npc and cause a ruckus. But it rarely happened. It used to be a nice vibrant town to get immersed in. The whole atmosphere was peaceful. But now you can't go a minute without hearing people getting murdered all around you. I'm trying to do some crafting, some trading, organize my items at the banker, all the while people are getting murdered all around me. Corpses lying on the streets and avenues. This applies to every towns I visit.

I'm so sick of this. It's at odds with the whole ambient of the place. Ruins my immersion. If the town's were designed to be seedy dangerous places crawling with thieves and murderers, and the atmosphere build around that, I'd be fine with it. But they're not. They were designed to be peaceful lawful vibrant towns full of life. Which motivates the player to spend hours doing these quests to save the town from threats that would destroy it, and return a hero. But now you return to a town full of players murdering NPCs in plain site and you can't do anything about it. They just walk over to the next NPC and continue killing. What's the point? I guess players are doing it to get some lame achievement. But this is stupid. I can't attack them. Can't do anything about it. And it looks like its real easy for players to go on these killing sprees. How is this even fun?

Can we introduce some method of allowing players to report and sick guards on other players who kill NPCs? I'm sure the people going on these murdering sprees would appreciate the extra challenge.

WE NEED KNIFE CONTROL! NOW! LMAO

That's it! being a member of the NKO (National Knife Organization) I will vote to veto ANY knife control measures!

Giraffon · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Lol at all the people making fun of me for being immersed in this game. This is one of the most immersive MMOs out there. What do you think all the voice acting and walls of text are for? Immersion. Yeah, a few things here and there brake it but it's not as big a deal as what is happening now.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Since DB, the game is a total failure in regard of immersion.
No society could and would tolerate a behavior like this.
ZOS failed to give us a working jurisdiction and bounty system,

The game now is completely nuts.
It is not like an Elder Scrolls family game anymore,
more like a kind of GTA, celebrating violence. Disgusting.

Exactly. I could get into playing the stealthy evil assassin type character, but it's pointless. You don't need to worry about stealth and not being seen. Just go out and murder defenseless NPCs like it's Grand Theft Auto. I'm not into that garbage.

I'm not asking for PvP in the streets. I know that will turn out badly. I'm asking for a system to allow players to alert guards to chase down criminals when murders occur. It will add a whole layer of skill to the act of assassinating NPCs. I'm glad some of you assassin players want to see a feature like this added too.

I actually like the idea to some extent. The way I think it could be done is that the player has the ability to call a nearby patrolling guard to their current location. The guard would stand at the summoned location for a moment or two and then return to their patrol. In theory that's all you would need to do. The guard would then see the suspect and if their bounty were high enough they would get attacked.

Is there an opportunity to troll other players? Sure. You might call a guard to your location and accidently cause a nearby criminal not currently in the act to be noticed by the guards. I don't really consider this an issue though. If you are wanted by the law, you take that risk when you go to a public place. Maybe you need to head to the nearest outlaws refuge instead of hanging around the good folk of Tameriel.

The only thing that would need adjusted is that if you are being attacked by a guard, you should be able to open doors freely. It's completely stupid that you can't open doors when guards are attacking you. This would need to change so non-criminal players can't ruin the game for the bandits. Should the criminal die by the guards hand, then the guards will leave the player a reward on the corpse of the fallen criminal.

I think this system would work and serve to deepen immersion.

But to be fair, you should as well not be able to see stealthy players outside of your detection radius - like it is you can see them from far away, this would have to be adjusted as well then. Another problem with it is 3rd person view - you can see things, which are behind your back in 3rd person - this is not good as well and immersion breaking for stealth gameplay.

I agree with this idea for PvE. The exception would be if that player was in a group with you then you would see them outside of your normal detection radius just as you do same alliance players in PvP. It really should be like this anyway even if nothing else above is implemented.

Lysette · June 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

Indeed, especially because the wrong kind of people want to be law enforcers - they are not lawful people in the first place.

Like in the movie Silverado, where the bad guys were the law in town.

Well, human history had systems which allowed anyone to kill a person on sight if it was either "wanted - dead of alive" or declared "vogelfrei", like in the holy roman Reich of german nations - vogelfrei meaning "free like a bird". But this applied to notorious criminals, which were hard to catch, not to petty thievery.

Gargath · June 2016

Maybe increase significantly the number of guards patrolling certain areas, and make their patrolling routes overlap, give some guards a special "boss" status - even more deadly abilities, doubled speed, ultimate roots with strong dot etc, significantly increasing the player's risk of being caught and killed on sight. Even more immersion for killers

.

Lysette · June 2016

Avalon wrote: »

I think part of the problem is the 'aimless murdering'. Kill 20 people... Which 20? The Dark Brotherhood doesn't kill random people. They kill those targeted by the sacrament, those contracted otherwise, and those who have gotten in the way and need removed. Never randomly. One of the most common 'contracts' I've gotten is 'Kill 3 Citizens in X-Area'... Soooo... Either ZOS did the DB completely wrong, or someone keeps doing the sacrament to kill randomly? No...

The contracts should have been handled more like the TG bounty board: kill X-npc in first area, return for minor reward or go kill Y-npc in next area, return for moderate reward or kill Z-npc in third area, return for maximum reward. Or, kill X-npc in their house, for maximum reward- don't be detected, kill all servants as well. Stuff like that. The DB isn't a great-club crushing entire areas randomly, they are daggers striking precisely and surgically.

yeah, guild tasks like this are disgusting and against the DB ways to do things - ZOS has done it wrong if it is like this.

vamp_emily · June 2016

I was in Wayrest sitting waiting to do the sewer. Out of the corner of my eye I seen a nightblade appear behind a fisherman. He sliced the fisherman up and cloaked away.

Guess it was a bad day to go fishing.

Potenza · June 2016

vamp_emily wrote: »

I was in Wayrest sitting waiting to do the sewer. Out of the corner of my eye I seen a nightblade appear behind a fisherman. He sliced the fisherman up and cloaked away.

Guess it was a bad day to go fishing.

Gotta love it!

willymchilybily · June 2016

@EdmundTowers

They are but children of the night mother. They are sent to your towns and cities summoned by someone performing the black sacrament. They are not responsible for the influx of unworthy being "baptized" in your precious Vulkhel Guard.

No i think you will find some devilish horticulturist must have been spreading nightshade seeds all over tameriel one of the all important plants need to perform the black sacrament. I previously had never even seen, yet now they bloom all over. Now it is available, and so the killing has begun. maybe you should watch out for those responsible. listen for the sacrament.

"Sweet mother, Sweet mother, send your child onto me for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear."

immersion is what you mold around your game experience. drawn into the story. the lore. Only you can break your own immersion, normally it must be said by lack imagination.

Beardimus · June 2016

I'm with the OP, it does change the game totally. In your quest you are protecting people whilst ignoring killers rampaging around like a medieval GTA.

The guards should be ramped up in towns so there is more of a penalty. I don't really get the fun in charging thru town openly killing innocents, it's pure box ticking. Would be assassins should need to be sneaky, bode their time or get busted outside of the gold coast

Agree that PvP justice wouldn't be great in PvE land, just another battlefield, but it could carry over to cyrodill etc but we know the justice system was shelved.

Saltypretzels · June 2016

It is far easier to steal gold and items from people than pickpocketing them. Thus the murders everywhere. Maybe straight out murdering people should have a lesser drop rate on stolen items.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Seeing the replies in this thread and every other similar thread reminds me daily that ZOS actually made the right decision in keeping Justice System PvP out of this game. Its interesting to see how the opportunity or the possibility of a mechanic that would allow players to grief bring out the sadists in our community.

Indeed, especially because the wrong kind of people want to be law enforcers - they are not lawful people in the first place.

Like in the movie Silverado, where the bad guys were the law in town.

Well, human history had systems which allowed anyone to kill a person on sight if it was either "wanted - dead of alive" or declared "vogelfrei", like in the holy roman Reich of german nations - vogelfrei meaning "free like a bird". But this applied to notorious criminals, which were hard to catch, not to petty thievery.

And what people want is a system where they can do the very thing they claim others are doing but with a hall pass for it.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · June 2016

vamp_emily wrote: »

I was in Wayrest sitting waiting to do the sewer. Out of the corner of my eye I seen a nightblade appear behind a fisherman. He sliced the fisherman up and cloaked away.

Guess it was a bad day to go fishing.

And this one thought no one would notice one less fisherman

Potenza · June 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm with the OP, it does change the game totally. In your quest you are protecting people whilst ignoring killers rampaging around like a medieval GTA.

The guards should be ramped up in towns so there is more of a penalty. I don't really get the fun in charging thru town openly killing innocents, it's pure box ticking. Would be assassins should need to be sneaky, bode their time or get busted outside of the gold coast

Agree that PvP justice wouldn't be great in PvE land, just another battlefield, but it could carry over to cyrodill etc but we know the justice system was shelved.

Why should I have more of a penalty just because you don't like that aspect of the game? You don't have to participate if you don't like it, but don't advocate to put penalties on other people who do enjoy that part of the game.

Tib · June 2016

I wouldn't mind some kind of Justice PvP system and there's several great ideas here in this thread (trying to upvote you all as we speak!) ... although I'd probably be quite scared at the thought of other people hunting me haha. But that would be the point!
And I'd still try to get some of the killing done, perhaps in a sneakier and subtler style - and there is actually nothing wrong with that, makes it a bit more realistic

Killing should not be the facerolling it is now. Then again, much of the game is facerolling so perhaps it makes sense to continue like this :P

xilfxlegion · June 2016

what pisses me off is we can kill all kinds of people now, but not that aggravating, complaining *** near the wayshrine in belkarth. lyssa something. the one complaining about her delivery.

we should also be able to kill anyone singing that damn red diamonds song

Gidorick · June 2016

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't mind some kind of Justice PvP system and there's several great ideas here in this thread (trying to upvote you all as we speak!) ... although I'd probably be quite scared at the thought of other people hunting me haha. But that would be the point!
And I'd still try to get some of the killing done, perhaps in a sneakier and subtler style - and there is actually nothing wrong with that, makes it a bit more realistic Killing should not be the facerolling it is now. Then again, much of the game is facerolling so perhaps it makes sense to continue like this :P

And I think that WAS the point of the PVP portion of the justice system @nurrtibub16_ESO . It was going to be a deterrent for crime... but then a VERY vocal horde came out complaining that they don't want to partake in PVP and that they shouldn't be "forced" to PVP.

There could have been workarounds. My personal favorite is establishing a 4th wanted level that can ONLY be reached with violent crimes & running from guards. Steal all you want. A player will never be able to hunt you down. Attack or kill a guard/NPC (yes, guards should be killable) or run when the guard apprehends you and it's on son!

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

It is just sad - in Oblivion the TG was a somewhat good organization, they stole, but they did not steal from the poor and it was more like a Robin Hood like thing, especially with the gray fox as their leader. In Sykrim they made the TG a guild of scums. The DB in Oblivion was a clearly sacred organization where the art of stealthy assassinations came with a special reward for when it was executed in a special way. In Skyrim that was already watered down and with a tendency to become scum. And now in ESO they are even more prone to be scum, instead to be what the guild should be - a sacred service to a divine being.

The Gray Fox also had a presence in the TG of Morrowind, the guild was more heroic in that era. I agree with you the Skyrim branch of TG felt like Vory, but I don't think that was necessarily incorrect. I think the thieves guild always had two sides to it, the Robin Hood types, and those more in league with bandits or mafia. The Thieves Guild is in fact a form of crime syndicate no matter how you look at it. My view of Dark Brotherhood was always a touch sour, but that's because of Morrowind I think. I'd like to point out their honor wasn't all that great, because they gave up trying to fill their contract once I killed the guy who called the hit on me. The Morag Tong always felt like more. I personally feel ESO and Skyrim both went a long way toward bringing the DB back. In Skyrim you were dealing with a guild that was on its last rope, and either dies or revives based on the protagonist/dragonborn. It stands to reason these last DB members were pretty weak or lost the faith. I personally thought this was the best DB plot I had done.

ESO's DB is pretty good as well, and I love their duel with a certain order of monks/priests. My only regret here is they didn't give us a choice between factions so we could play either side. The outcome could have ultimately been the same (a device TES games have used for over a decade). I think it was a lost opportunity personally, though I'm sure it saved them some cost and time, I think in this case you are talking about two iconic factions. It would have been worth it.

HaldaAinur · June 2016

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO. Other players will do as they please- especially in the main towns/kingdoms, the most popular places to be, full of houses to loot and NPCs to murder. I RP on and off, so I can appreciate your complaint, but this is simply part of the way an MMO works.

Bounties in the fashion suggested by nurrtibub16_ESO would be a simple fun way to add to the immersion.

BalticBlues · June 2016

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't mind some kind of Justice PvP system and there's several great ideas here in this thread (trying to upvote you all as we speak!) ... although I'd probably be quite scared at the thought of other people hunting me haha. But that would be the point!
And I'd still try to get some of the killing done, perhaps in a sneakier and subtler style - and there is actually nothing wrong with that, makes it a bit more realistic Killing should not be the facerolling it is now. Then again, much of the game is facerolling so perhaps it makes sense to continue like this :P

And I think that WAS the point of the PVP portion of the justice system @nurrtibub16_ESO . It was going to be a deterrent for crime... but then a VERY vocal horde came out complaining that they don't want to partake in PVP and that they shouldn't be "forced" to PVP.

There could have been workarounds. My personal favorite is establishing a 4th wanted level that can ONLY be reached with violent crimes & running from guards. Steal all you want. A player will never be able to hunt you down. Attack or kill a guard/NPC (yes, guards should be killable) or run when the guard apprehends you and it's on son!

I agree, guards should be killable. If they're so tough, they're just lazy. They should be out in Cyrodiil becoming Emperor or killing Molag Bal, not me (Vestige).

RoyalPink06 · June 2016

at first I thought it was funny, seeing all the dead bodies lying everywhere in the streets. Like, so many lol. I still find it a bit amusing, but it is kind of getting old. It might help to just have the bodies clear away faster, especially if the NPC has already respawned.

sorry about your 'mursion, OP.

PhxOldGamer68 · June 2016

After the first kill behind a building, I did the Steve Urkel, "Did I do that?" But it felt good. I needed to see more cut scenes...literally "cut" scenes. The coup de gras smack to the head...ohhhh.

So I farmed 19 more behind the same buildings...the same 5 that respawned over and over again. Three guys digging, a nightblade and a lady praying at a well. Got my 20 kill achievement.

I was PC to those who didn't want to see the carnage. Kill behind buildings.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

HaldaAinur wrote: »

Yes it can ruin immersion but guess what? This is an MMO.

How many MMOs are known for massive and deadly violence against civilians?

Considering the deadly gun violence against civilians in America which is always present in the news, is it really necessary to turn a "family MMO" as ESO into a sick pleasure for psychopaths?

any, Literally Any true Sandbox MMO does this by way of allowing attacks on innocent, Questing players inside and outside of Towns, and WoW would be a Very good Example of this as the Town raids contribute just as much. only difference is in ESO the Players *IE you* are Saved the scrutiny of Having to chase down your corpse to revive when the players come killin NPCS

Khaos_Bane · June 2016

Just be thankful there isn't open world PvP. Can you imagine how annoying it would be? I really wish they would have a PvP server and PvE server like some other MMOs. Then they could open up PvP everywhere and allow PvE only everywhere on the PvE servers.

Tib · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't mind some kind of Justice PvP system and there's several great ideas here in this thread (trying to upvote you all as we speak!) ... although I'd probably be quite scared at the thought of other people hunting me haha. But that would be the point!
And I'd still try to get some of the killing done, perhaps in a sneakier and subtler style - and there is actually nothing wrong with that, makes it a bit more realistic Killing should not be the facerolling it is now. Then again, much of the game is facerolling so perhaps it makes sense to continue like this :P

And I think that WAS the point of the PVP portion of the justice system nurrtibub16_ESO . It was going to be a deterrent for crime... but then a VERY vocal horde came out complaining that they don't want to partake in PVP and that they shouldn't be "forced" to PVP.

There could have been workarounds. My personal favorite is establishing a 4th wanted level that can ONLY be reached with violent crimes & running from guards. Steal all you want. A player will never be able to hunt you down. Attack or kill a guard/NPC (yes, guards should be killable) or run when the guard apprehends you and it's on son!

I agree, guards should be killable. If they're so tough, they're just lazy. They should be out in Cyrodiil becoming Emperor or killing Molag Bal, not me (Vestige).

Agree about guards! Gidorick, I'm sorry for beating this dead horse, it was just so tempting to think "what if"! And your solution could definitely have been an option, sigh.

ChrispyRambo · June 2016

Lysette wrote: »

ChrispyRambo wrote: »

You can make sooooo much money with the Blade Of Woe....robbing every NPC as they die has filled my bank account. Find a small village with no guards and let the the slaughter begin. Just creep in a nice circular pattern around the village and by the time you get back to the first NPC you've killed they all start to re-spawn. Maxed out my Fence everyday since the DB landed on XB1.

I am sorry, but that is not how a dark brother/sister should behave. I reject the notion, that DB members are murderers, we are not, a DB assassination is a sacrament, a sacred activity with a specific target person. This murdering going on in cities has nothing to do with what the DB was like in other TES games. I think it is not a good implementation, as it is, this behavior is just not what the brotherhood is meant to be - we are not meant to be bloodthirsty murderers, who go after any random NPC. The whole point of the DB is derailed with this implementation, it makes DB members scum, whereas we should be sacred.