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Damage shields nurfed to hard.
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americansteel✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.
shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.
the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.
.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.
do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.
templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.
Templars and dk's aren't in a bad spot, what game have you been playing?
a broken game called elderscrolls online.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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americansteel✭✭✭✭americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.
shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.
the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.
.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.
do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.
templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.
For someone whining so much about the game, you sure don't know much about it.
Yes, Templars do have 'Hardened Ward'. If you wear 7 pieces of light armor and choose the 'Dampen Magicka' morph of the light armor shield, you get a shield bigger than hardened ward, that lasts just as long, and costs about the same.
Now sorcs have no real unique class defense and it's showing.
is this a joke? a templar does not have hardened ward.
a templar can still be burst down so quick with ease by a sorcerer!
2 shields vs a sorcerer wearing 3 non critible shields GOD like DPS as always the templar will get worked over.
bad players is all i see here, still see many sorcs wiping templars constantly. L2P sorc playersNO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E
Idc anymore I'm going back to killing people lol... but a templar whining about sorcs is about the craziest thing on this thread.
Seriously... ur playing the ANTI-sorc class. Purge+ eclipse and stabby away to victory. that simple.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks0 -
DannyLV702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm actually doing better in VMA with my sorc now than before. Cut my time by over 40 minutes and beat my old score by high numbers. Tomorrow I'll actually go for a more serious run using potions0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.
shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.
the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.
.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.
do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.
templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.
For someone whining so much about the game, you sure don't know much about it.
Yes, Templars do have 'Hardened Ward'. If you wear 7 pieces of light armor and choose the 'Dampen Magicka' morph of the light armor shield, you get a shield bigger than hardened ward, that lasts just as long, and costs about the same.
Now sorcs have no real unique class defense and it's showing.
is this a joke? a templar does not have hardened ward.
a templar can still be burst down so quick with ease by a sorcerer!
2 shields vs a sorcerer wearing 3 non critible shields GOD like DPS as always the templar will get worked over.
bad players is all i see here, still see many sorcs wiping templars constantly. L2P sorc players
Maybe it's not your class that's lacking, it's your skill.
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.
Why?
Why is class objectively better or more important than weapon or guild or "world type" or for that matter race?
It seems i see a number of people wanting to use these isolated sub-groups of a character to tunnek-vision in and cherry pick to frame an argument to ignore lots of counter arguments. I see them used that way a lot more than i see these isolated sub-groups of skills used for any other discussion point.
At any given time, a character can have up to 18 skill slots of active powers at their disposal and passives from many different skill lines.
What objective reason is there or even subjective reason is there that says the 18 related to class should be better than every other non-class option?
Why should every sorcerer class heal be better than every resto staff heal?
Why should every templar close attack be better than every two-hand attack?
I see all the components that go into a character on an even footing. Some sub-sets will have strengths and weaknesses which are different than the other subsets strengths and weaknesses and its the combination of the combinations that makes for all the dynamic play.
Some characters for instance rely more on weapon skills for damage than class skills. I dobt see it then as axiomatic or obvious that those classes should do less damage than characters who rely on class skills for damage simply because class skills should always be superior.
This is not to say all skills should be the same or even equal. After all you never get just one skill but a package of skills. Thats part of the reason i question your position. I can see easily a class skill heal being weaker in isolation than a resto or guild heal IF the other skills and passives balance it out in an overall not-limited to healing context.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Natas013✭✭✭I've L2PvE with EW and the crappy CS, but I've never been a PvP shield stacker until this update. Dropped healing ward from my build and went DW on back bar, as I found healing ward worthless at the same time as HM/DM. I agree that 6 second shields are garbage, but @Wrobel doesn't seem to be budging on it because someone was running a 25K HW in vMSA.
As for those that say shields are still OP, this truly is a L2P issue. I didn't have a problem killing most sorcs pre battle spirit and all the nerfs to sorcs that came with that. I never go into any battle expecting it to be easy though, regardless of how much of an advantage I may perceive I have. That's a good way to get your ass handed to you
RIP Ellania Delome
June 9, 2015-June 14, 2016
A skilled crafter, competent sorcerer, and denizen of the night
Along came the Dark Brotherhood and summarily ended it all0 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.
Why?
Why is class objectively better or more important than weapon or guild or "world type" or for that matter race?
It seems i see a number of people wanting to use these isolated sub-groups of a character to tunnek-vision in and cherry pick to frame an argument to ignore lots of counter arguments. I see them used that way a lot more than i see these isolated sub-groups of skills used for any other discussion point.
At any given time, a character can have up to 18 skill slots of active powers at their disposal and passives from many different skill lines.
What objective reason is there or even subjective reason is there that says the 18 related to class should be better than every other non-class option?
Why should every sorcerer class heal be better than every resto staff heal?
Why should every templar close attack be better than every two-hand attack?
I see all the components that go into a character on an even footing. Some sub-sets will have strengths and weaknesses which are different than the other subsets strengths and weaknesses and its the combination of the combinations that makes for all the dynamic play.
Some characters for instance rely more on weapon skills for damage than class skills. I dobt see it then as axiomatic or obvious that those classes should do less damage than characters who rely on class skills for damage simply because class skills should always be superior.
This is not to say all skills should be the same or even equal. After all you never get just one skill but a package of skills. Thats part of the reason i question your position. I can see easily a class skill heal being weaker in isolation than a resto or guild heal IF the other skills and passives balance it out in an overall not-limited to healing context.
The simple, Yet overwhelmingly complicated answer is : Identity
If I'm playing a class that claims to have more magicka then any other, and be a spell wielding magicka bomb on foot. Then I naturally would expect that I'm better at "being" that, then say a DragonKnight. Universal skills muddle this identity crises...and the reason many believe they shouldn't be as strong as class skills is because they diminish the "identity" of that class.
Identity is a huge crises for Sorcs right now because we don't have supporting skills to tank, and we don't have strong enough heals to be competitive with templars, so we're stuck in the dps position. For DPS we get beaten by everyone, have less damage mitigation then anyone, and bring less utility to the group then anyone.
For PVP, and the identity of sorcs we had a few iconic things for us, our burst damage, bolt escape (actually being able to pull out of situations without getting poisoned, snared, and gap closed to death) and shields. the burst damage combos of the past few patches where directly assaulted this time so we lost those turning alot of fights into sustained battles, (which to us was like taking away a nb's ambush or lotus fan. Yes we can still find a way to make people dead, but it was part of our combo and other ways arn't nearly as efficient.) For our bolt escape and mobility, as you well know... pvp is alot "stickier" these days with the 60% snares EVERYWHERE, poison immobilizes, CCs, and bombard roots every 2 steps... Bolt escape has been nerfed to oblivion, and using it to escape someone that can spam gap closers on you with no penalty and having infinitly high stacking costs... it's just impossible to use it to disengage a situation. I wish I could cloak away like NBs... but my pets don't cloak with me, even with a vanish potion x.x
And finally shields. As I've highlighted before ... with the removal of shield stacking basically. (yes u can do it but ur playing purely defensively at that point and against anything other then potatoes I don't think it's very effective) and All magicka classes (almost stamina as well...whew) have our style of shields. Only they get those shields... along with their own classes mitigation techniques. Kinda sorta making them the better "sorc" class.
I mean what is our identity? what makes us "feel" like a magickal storm of destruction? cuz Magical nightblades, magical templars, and magical dragonknights arguably do it all better.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »oh look all the bad sorc in one thread...
Seriously shield stacking got buffed.
If you've seen a strong player using a sorc this patch there even harder to kill.
Increase shields to 10s if they are made critable.
You have no idea what you are talking about especially if you believe its a buff. Puff puff pass.0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know you're trolling but just in case you really don't l2p magicka sorc, i will tell you:
3 shields and 2 bar swaps takes 4 seconds and no is doing that
change to harness is a nerf to magicka regen/management for sorc
every class _except_ magicka sorc was buffed by the change to annulment (harness magicka) since they gained a shield as powerful as hardened ward, with the same duration (more powerful than empowered ward mind you)
so you can cast healing ward + annulment and get a 2 shield stack
or you can cast healing ward + hardened ward for that same exact 2 shield stack with almost no difference whatsoever
if you fight a sorc who actually cast 3 shields for some reason, just cast vigor when you see them start to cast shields, between vigor, rally, and sustained restore health, you should have regenerated 8 - 10k health by the time they cast them.
Edit: protip, cast vigor again before you crit rush, the first shield will expire by the time you arrive
Exactly. I think vigor should be nerfed but thats a whole other thread.
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LordSidious wrote: »
*Looks for weaknesses in NB and DK copy/paste builds post-patch*Brutusmax1mus wrote: »You're just mad bc your cookie cutter build has a weakness now.
*Still looking*
like cloak is crap and any single light attack decloaks you?
there are tons of posts about that and no answer from ZOSSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@deepseamk20b14_ESO all the shields scale off max magicka what are you even talking about
edit: except bone shield
edit2: also your friend would have 15k in PVP since they're reduced by half in cyrodiil, and he was talking about multiple shields applied at once
Neither DK shields, non Templar shields scale off max magickaSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
americansteel✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »americansteel wrote: »nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.
shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.
the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.
.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.
do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.
templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.
For someone whining so much about the game, you sure don't know much about it.
Yes, Templars do have 'Hardened Ward'. If you wear 7 pieces of light armor and choose the 'Dampen Magicka' morph of the light armor shield, you get a shield bigger than hardened ward, that lasts just as long, and costs about the same.
Now sorcs have no real unique class defense and it's showing.
is this a joke? a templar does not have hardened ward.
a templar can still be burst down so quick with ease by a sorcerer!
2 shields vs a sorcerer wearing 3 non critible shields GOD like DPS as always the templar will get worked over.
bad players is all i see here, still see many sorcs wiping templars constantly. L2P sorc players
Maybe it's not your class that's lacking, it's your skill.
haha i kill sorceres on a magplar they are either bad, no shields, stam play, or almost dead by a group dps. L2P perhaps? i see mAny sorcs wrecking well named known magplars when im in pvp. your whiteknight crusade defending shield buffs and sorcerers is a lost cause, triple shield stacking is a problem!
btw my templar was nerfed!
NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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americansteel✭✭✭✭https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E
Idc anymore I'm going back to killing people lol... but a templar whining about sorcs is about the craziest thing on this thread.
Seriously... ur playing the ANTI-sorc class. Purge+ eclipse and stabby away to victory. that simple.
learn to play learn to adapt. if a sorcerer dies to a magplar dps build that player needs 2 l2p!
a sorc should not be able to kill a pure healer,
eclipse? you know nothing!
my back door poker can not damage reapllied 3 shields.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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holosoul✭✭✭✭
and of course this only applies to templaramericansteel wrote: »a sorc should not be able to kill a pure healer,
saying nothing about other 40k magicka classes using a resto staff
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
The simple, Yet overwhelmingly complicated answer is : Identity
If I'm playing a class that claims to have more magicka then any other, and be a spell wielding magicka bomb on foot. Then I naturally would expect that I'm better at "being" that, then say a DragonKnight. Universal skills muddle this identity crises...and the reason many believe they shouldn't be as strong as class skills is because they diminish the "identity" of that class.
Identity is a huge crises for Sorcs right now because we don't have supporting skills to tank, and we don't have strong enough heals to be competitive with templars, so we're stuck in the dps position. For DPS we get beaten by everyone, have less damage mitigation then anyone, and bring less utility to the group then anyone.
For PVP, and the identity of sorcs we had a few iconic things for us, our burst damage, bolt escape (actually being able to pull out of situations without getting poisoned, snared, and gap closed to death) and shields. the burst damage combos of the past few patches where directly assaulted this time so we lost those turning alot of fights into sustained battles, (which to us was like taking away a nb's ambush or lotus fan. Yes we can still find a way to make people dead, but it was part of our combo and other ways arn't nearly as efficient.) For our bolt escape and mobility, as you well know... pvp is alot "stickier" these days with the 60% snares EVERYWHERE, poison immobilizes, CCs, and bombard roots every 2 steps... Bolt escape has been nerfed to oblivion, and using it to escape someone that can spam gap closers on you with no penalty and having infinitly high stacking costs... it's just impossible to use it to disengage a situation. I wish I could cloak away like NBs... but my pets don't cloak with me, even with a vanish potion x.x
And finally shields. As I've highlighted before ... with the removal of shield stacking basically. (yes u can do it but ur playing purely defensively at that point and against anything other then potatoes I don't think it's very effective) and All magicka classes (almost stamina as well...whew) have our style of shields. Only they get those shields... along with their own classes mitigation techniques. Kinda sorta making them the better "sorc" class.
I mean what is our identity? what makes us "feel" like a magickal storm of destruction? cuz Magical nightblades, magical templars, and magical dragonknights arguably do it all better.
Ok so first off, where did the sorcerer class make the claims you mention? how do those claims even exist if the magica and stamina values are picked by the player? how does a stamsorc even exist if the class is CLAIMING to have more magica than any other? A strong element of this game is that any class can do any of the roles, do things in different ways yes but doi them nonetheless.
Secondly and where we most likely just dont exist in the same reality of perception, i do NOT see class or weapon or guilds or even race as setting my character's identity. My character's identity is set by the combination of all those things, the skill and point selections i make and the decisions towards personality I make and choices the character made in game.
To me, playing a sorc doesn't set a "magica bomb" identity, hence i have two stamsorcs tho one did level up as magica, and one magica sorc who are all quite different.
To me each of the classes has so many options that to look for a class to set your character's identity is operating in reverse. Your identity is what you want and you choose class along with all the rest to draw that picture. Class is just one of the brushes or one of the colors on the palette you use to draw your creation into "game" life.
So to me, sorcerer's the class do not have an identity. neither do nightblades, templars or dragonknights.
Looking at your post, taking the PVP set for instance, you basically list offense, defense and movement as the IDENTITY of the sorcerer. Seems to me those are things every character regardless of class wants and utilizes to various degrees and needs to be skilled at to be successful.
One of the things that attracted me to ESO and that i continue to like about ESo is the basic design "lack" of "identity" at the class level. i actually disliked some of the changes in DB, the fighter's guild ones for instance, because they pigeonhole that "brush" a little more heavily into a "stamina only club" . that nes wonders why a magica-based character would be involved with.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭Oh ok stevil
didn't realize my sorc could build different and get wings, cloak, and BoL
I'll try to keep that in mind at all times0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭Classes don't exist and everyone is capable of exactly the same maximum in all aspects of the game, didn't you know!?0
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh ok stevil
didn't realize my sorc could build different and get wings, cloak, and BoL
I'll try to keep that in mind at all times
Well no your sorc can stack shields, be a pet build, etc...
Or it can go stamina and go s+b to be tanky, go 2h for offence, or dw for dots.
You can choose what direction you want your sorc to go, it's not made to just be a shield stacker.
Thats what he mean't.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭@leepalmer95
lee you really need to work on your sense of humor and sarcasm, I must say
I don't take STEVIL's posts seriously anymore, so I try not to respond to him seriously if I can help it.
Now personally, I never found shields to be class defining. I think they are defined (by wrobel himself mind you) as the magicka defense whose siblings are dodge roll, block, and break free (he said this on ESO live in DB preview)
I don't think shields are an adequate defense when compared to those other mechanics whatsoever, and I would happily trade anyone who claims otherwise for those exact skills; which are the 'stamina' defenses according to wrobel.
Stamina has just as much access to magicka shields as magicka has access to block and dodge roll. Take that as you will.
I am not making this post, or any post, in favor of shield stacking or the shield stacking meta. I would rather see damage absorbing shields completely removed from the game as a mechanic altogether. I would rather see a more fun and engaging magicka defense added to the game that does not involve casting a spell to absorb damage and relying on that spell to not get killed in 1 combo. I want more active ways to disrupt combos and keep the fight at a distance which gives me an advantage if I am a better player than my opponent.
Do you find shield stacking to be fun, engaging, or to have a high skill level which highlights worthy players? I don't.
Magicka defenses need to be reworked.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think the nerf was a bit too extreme. It seems to me that 10s Hardened Ward or 12s Empowered is reasonable, but as it stands, the only difference between Ward and Harness Magicka (for the most part, not looking for a detailed debate) is passive SD vs. magicka recovery, assuming a mag sorc not using any pets or anything that might benefit more from Ward.
I'll disagree that light armor is useless without Wards. My mag sorc doesn't make use of any Wards for group pve content, which I think it true for most sorcs that raid, save for a few exceptions (such as being a spear bait during Mantikora). I can argue it both ways to be honest; my main concern here is the duration. There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.
Light armor is useless in PVP. Most people stack enough penetration to make it effectively zero mitigation. Sharpened weapon (5K) major breach (5k). There goes all of your physical resist. You're naked and dead in two shots.
I'd be okay with an 8 second hardened and 10s empowered if it will stop the whining on the forums.
It will from me, but we still need to address armor penetration on everyone.psychotic13 wrote: »Just make dark exchange insta cast, then we don't have to solely rely on a shield, it's that simple.
I wish! Or at least a heal over time.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »snipped weak troll attempt
snipped successful trolling
snipped weak troll attempt
snipped incoherent nonsense
How exactly was magicka sorc buffed again?
via harness now mitigating physical dmg.
That's a buff to every Magicka class, remember there are three others. The other two benefit the most.
Remember that stacking six second shields doesn't work in a real fight, you're out of resources too quickly.
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Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the nerf was a bit too extreme. It seems to me that 10s Hardened Ward or 12s Empowered is reasonable, but as it stands, the only difference between Ward and Harness Magicka (for the most part, not looking for a detailed debate) is passive SD vs. magicka recovery, assuming a mag sorc not using any pets or anything that might benefit more from Ward.
I'll disagree that light armor is useless without Wards. My mag sorc doesn't make use of any Wards for group pve content, which I think it true for most sorcs that raid, save for a few exceptions (such as being a spear bait during Mantikora). I can argue it both ways to be honest; my main concern here is the duration. There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.
Light armor is useless in PVP. Most people stack enough penetration to make it effectively zero mitigation. Sharpened weapon (5K) major breach (5k). There goes all of your physical resist. You're naked and dead in two shots.
I'd be okay with an 8 second hardened and 10s empowered if it will stop the whining on the forums.
It will from me, but we still need to address armor penetration on everyone.psychotic13 wrote: »Just make dark exchange insta cast, then we don't have to solely rely on a shield, it's that simple.
I wish! Or at least a heal over time.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »snipped weak troll attempt
snipped successful trolling
snipped weak troll attempt
snipped incoherent nonsense
How exactly was magicka sorc buffed again?
via harness now mitigating physical dmg.
That's a buff to every Magicka class, remember there are three others. The other two benefit the most.
Remember that stacking six second shields doesn't work in a real fight, you're out of resources too quickly.
I would LOVE for penetration to be addressed. Its breaking any kind of defensive builds and pigeon-holing them into perma block builds.... I have a DK tank with 30k resists and the second I drop block, I take RIDONCULOUS hits..... I run with 32k resists and 2.5k impen too... Penetration is SO broken right now.
5k from major breach, 5k from sharpened, 5k from light armour, + CP.... 30k resists become like 15k... Im reduced from 45% mitigation to a meagre 20% by people who arent even trying..... They are giving up nothing to achieve such penetration while I practically trade 90% of my damage away....
Not just that.... Penetration as it is now, makes LA USELESS. Like you pointed out, its basically just used for regen, cost red and penetration.... 10k resists is basically 0 loooool.
As for my sorc, I think the shields are fine. ZOS principle on someone shouldnt be able to shield stack and damage at the same time is fine and dandy as long as they change up the sorc a little bit.
1. Like make bound armour bonus an "always on" as LONG AS IT IS ON YOUR BAR for the magicka version. Make it like magelight in the sense that casting it has an added effect. Make the castable effect like give us major resists for X seconds while always giving us passive extra max mag + minor resists. That would make most sorc builds go from 10k to 15k resists. Which kinda puts it on par with medium armour. Also it can be place on main bar only so we dont need to give up 2 slots.
2. Completely rework lightning form into a much cheaper, much shorter, much more damage DOT. One morph can be for stam (hurricane which can remain the same as it is now) and one for mag. Keep the movespeed buff on the magicka one while removing the major protection buffs. Just make it cost much less and do an AOE damage over time around you for like X seconds while maybe slowing enemies around you etc. This would not only help PvP sorcs since we lack a spammable damaging ability, it would also address the lack of DOTS that PvE sorcs have.
These 2 changes would not only free up a slot on our bar, but give us a reliable tool to mitigate damage. So shields can be used RE-ACTIVELY instead of OMG OMG SHIELDS NEED TO BE UP 24/7 OR ME DEAD.... Which is currently what they are used for now.... I dont know if the above 2 will be enough to use shields re-actively, but it sure would be a start. And I doubt if anyone would find the above changes OP.Edited by Vangy on June 22, 2016 2:31AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭
The simple, Yet overwhelmingly complicated answer is : Identity
If I'm playing a class that claims to have more magicka then any other, and be a spell wielding magicka bomb on foot. Then I naturally would expect that I'm better at "being" that, then say a DragonKnight. Universal skills muddle this identity crises...and the reason many believe they shouldn't be as strong as class skills is because they diminish the "identity" of that class.
Identity is a huge crises for Sorcs right now because we don't have supporting skills to tank, and we don't have strong enough heals to be competitive with templars, so we're stuck in the dps position. For DPS we get beaten by everyone, have less damage mitigation then anyone, and bring less utility to the group then anyone.
For PVP, and the identity of sorcs we had a few iconic things for us, our burst damage, bolt escape (actually being able to pull out of situations without getting poisoned, snared, and gap closed to death) and shields. the burst damage combos of the past few patches where directly assaulted this time so we lost those turning alot of fights into sustained battles, (which to us was like taking away a nb's ambush or lotus fan. Yes we can still find a way to make people dead, but it was part of our combo and other ways arn't nearly as efficient.) For our bolt escape and mobility, as you well know... pvp is alot "stickier" these days with the 60% snares EVERYWHERE, poison immobilizes, CCs, and bombard roots every 2 steps... Bolt escape has been nerfed to oblivion, and using it to escape someone that can spam gap closers on you with no penalty and having infinitly high stacking costs... it's just impossible to use it to disengage a situation. I wish I could cloak away like NBs... but my pets don't cloak with me, even with a vanish potion x.x
And finally shields. As I've highlighted before ... with the removal of shield stacking basically. (yes u can do it but ur playing purely defensively at that point and against anything other then potatoes I don't think it's very effective) and All magicka classes (almost stamina as well...whew) have our style of shields. Only they get those shields... along with their own classes mitigation techniques. Kinda sorta making them the better "sorc" class.
I mean what is our identity? what makes us "feel" like a magickal storm of destruction? cuz Magical nightblades, magical templars, and magical dragonknights arguably do it all better.
Ok so first off, where did the sorcerer class make the claims you mention? how do those claims even exist if the magica and stamina values are picked by the player? how does a stamsorc even exist if the class is CLAIMING to have more magica than any other? A strong element of this game is that any class can do any of the roles, do things in different ways yes but doi them nonetheless.
Secondly and where we most likely just dont exist in the same reality of perception, i do NOT see class or weapon or guilds or even race as setting my character's identity. My character's identity is set by the combination of all those things, the skill and point selections i make and the decisions towards personality I make and choices the character made in game.
To me, playing a sorc doesn't set a "magica bomb" identity, hence i have two stamsorcs tho one did level up as magica, and one magica sorc who are all quite different.
To me each of the classes has so many options that to look for a class to set your character's identity is operating in reverse. Your identity is what you want and you choose class along with all the rest to draw that picture. Class is just one of the brushes or one of the colors on the palette you use to draw your creation into "game" life.
So to me, sorcerer's the class do not have an identity. neither do nightblades, templars or dragonknights.
Looking at your post, taking the PVP set for instance, you basically list offense, defense and movement as the IDENTITY of the sorcerer. Seems to me those are things every character regardless of class wants and utilizes to various degrees and needs to be skilled at to be successful.
One of the things that attracted me to ESO and that i continue to like about ESo is the basic design "lack" of "identity" at the class level. i actually disliked some of the changes in DB, the fighter's guild ones for instance, because they pigeonhole that "brush" a little more heavily into a "stamina only club" . that nes wonders why a magica-based character would be involved with.
No intentional disrespect but Man oh man!.... the just be yourself and those that matter will stick around bit.
I'm floored that the nice guy type survived into adult hood, and survived this toxic atmosphere...whatever your doing to maintain this altruistic view point on the world. keep at it. I'm not going to be your rain cloud.
But for the rest of us, I think my explanation holds some weight.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
5k from major breach, 5k from sharpened, 5k from light armour, + CP.... 30k resists become like 15k... Im reduced from 45% mitigation to a meagre 20% by people who arent even trying..... They are giving up nothing to achieve such penetration while I practically trade 90% of my damage away....
Not just that.... Penetration as it is now, makes LA USELESS. Like you pointed out, its basically just used for regen, cost red and penetration.... 10k resists is basically 0 loooool.
I gotta say the irony is priceless.
using wearing light armor as part of the justification for penetration being so powerful and then saying how LA being useless is wonderful.
I would see it differently but then my doc did say I had "crazy eyes."
I would see the choice to give up meaningful physical resistance for significant penetration as a viable trade off with plusses and minuses. Useless is far from the word i would use... instead maybe offensive or aggressive comes to mind.
it means you do need to find health sustain elsewhere, since mitigation is an issue. Surge, entropy, infused enchants in your weaves, either of the two on-click pet heals, dark magic passive or the new potions where you can get significant healing over time or damage reductions (Example Essence of lingering health with 898 hps plus vitality +30% healing taken for 36s iirc.) but like most things there are always trade-offs. These ignore the heals you can get from weapon choices even unusual back bar ones like say the defensive stance absorb for health morph among others.
It just seems to me that if your premise stands - that LA provides sufficient penetration boost to seriously reduce the benefit of heavy armor AND light armor itself is basically meaningless in the physical protection racket - that is a feature and a deliberate trade-off and not a bug or design flaw.
As one example: Say you see the LA pen choice as allowing you to trade off the staff sharpened for infused - 5k vs 5k balancing out - and you stick a enchant of abs health on the infused. Now every 2.4s you generate about 1100 health as part of your rotation with no cp included (values not adjusted for PVP)
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭I can't take a discussion serious when you talk about shielded glas canons with mobility like a rocket at the same time.
Your expectations are totally out of control.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
No intentional disrespect but Man oh man!.... the just be yourself and those that matter will stick around bit.
I'm floored that the nice guy type survived into adult hood, and survived this toxic atmosphere...whatever your doing to maintain this altruistic view point on the world. keep at it. I'm not going to be your rain cloud.
But for the rest of us, I think my explanation holds some weight.
Out of respect, i will try and not read any disrespect into your response however I will note you did not answer the initial question about where you got that the class made the claims you base your position on?
What i am trying to understand is are those just preconceptions you bring into the game as to what any game element called a "sorcerer" should always be or were they actually stated in the game as the defining aspects of the sorcerer class?
Did you come in wanting more of your "identity" choices pre-defined for you more rigidly by class and get a less rigid system than you hoped for OR did they promise explicitly those things and then not deliver?
its the difference between unfulfilled expectations and broken promises, both of which can be painful but they focus attention in radically different directions.
None of those will rain on anything for me, since i came in with different anticipations and hopes than you perhaps and so far they are being satisfactorily met.
As for the "positive outlook" for me, i dont see a reason for anything but. The game is to be fun. if its fun i play. if its not i dont. Simply put i wouldn't be posting in the forum of a game i dont find fun. there are so many of those, i just dont have the time even if i had the inclination.
No sense in my mind getting bent out of shape over changes in a game. i can either treat them as challenges to overcome, learn and adapt to that keep the game fresh (a hallmark of good MMO IMO) or i can decide its not for me and find something better suited. i think i called it SACK in another thread - See the changes, Analyze the impact, Change where appropriate and resume Killing. Its part of the fun.
i would not have just shy of 3k hours (maybe over - not counting two deleted vets) invested into ESO play (almost half of that sorcs BTW) if i did not find it enjoyable or if it outraged me as much as it seems to do a vocal minority on these forums who seem to thrive on rage, derision and direct insults. They are easily ignored however, so no biggie.
For me there are just more important things deserving of outrage IRL and so i can save that energy for that arena. My final response today to major medical news sidelining me for weeks (after the initial flurry of questions and instructions and planning with f&f) was "well, more ESO in the daytime i reckon."
As the zen master said "We'll see!"
or as i said "the sun will still come up tomorrow morning whether i am angry or not."
looking forward to your answers.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
5k from major breach, 5k from sharpened, 5k from light armour, + CP.... 30k resists become like 15k... Im reduced from 45% mitigation to a meagre 20% by people who arent even trying..... They are giving up nothing to achieve such penetration while I practically trade 90% of my damage away....
Not just that.... Penetration as it is now, makes LA USELESS. Like you pointed out, its basically just used for regen, cost red and penetration.... 10k resists is basically 0 loooool.
I gotta say the irony is priceless.
using wearing light armor as part of the justification for penetration being so powerful and then saying how LA being useless is wonderful.
I would see it differently but then my doc did say I had "crazy eyes."
I would see the choice to give up meaningful physical resistance for significant penetration as a viable trade off with plusses and minuses. Useless is far from the word i would use... instead maybe offensive or aggressive comes to mind.
it means you do need to find health sustain elsewhere, since mitigation is an issue. Surge, entropy, infused enchants in your weaves, either of the two on-click pet heals, dark magic passive or the new potions where you can get significant healing over time or damage reductions (Example Essence of lingering health with 898 hps plus vitality +30% healing taken for 36s iirc.) but like most things there are always trade-offs. These ignore the heals you can get from weapon choices even unusual back bar ones like say the defensive stance absorb for health morph among others.
It just seems to me that if your premise stands - that LA provides sufficient penetration boost to seriously reduce the benefit of heavy armor AND light armor itself is basically meaningless in the physical protection racket - that is a feature and a deliberate trade-off and not a bug or design flaw.
As one example: Say you see the LA pen choice as allowing you to trade off the staff sharpened for infused - 5k vs 5k balancing out - and you stick a enchant of abs health on the infused. Now every 2.4s you generate about 1100 health as part of your rotation with no cp included (values not adjusted for PVP)
@STEVIL
Dude... You are taking this in the wrong context. Light armour should be weaker than medium and heavy in terms of mitigation. Agreed. But the way damage numbers are, setting the base as 0 resists is not a good idea. No one should have 0 protection.... Wearing 5 LA isnt really a choice when you are playing DPS. Its kind of a must-have...
What I want to see is the baseline for resists brought up. The average penetration be it from LA or sharpened maces etc is around 15k. Base armour for LA is like 10k...... Effectively you would have 0 mitigation even with 2 heavy.... Either penetration needs to be toned down, or the baseline be brought up.
Even a full-on tank with 35k resists is going to be brought down to a semi-light-armour wearer cos of penetration.... Tone down penetration and bring up resistance values of all armour pieces by a bit. Ideally, imo, LA should offer around 10% mitigation, medium can offer around 15, and tanks should have around 25% after all calculations of penetration.
Right now as it is, the trade off to make resistances worth it, is going FULL ON TANK. If you swap around 1 or 2 pieces or even 3 pieces to heavy, you wont even clear the 15-20k mark. People penetrate that literally with half a fart..... Trying to get resistances when you cant clear the 20k mark is meaningless.... You will just be gimping yourself by giving up damage to still have close to 0% mitigation....
Sure, we can talk all day long about getting more health or regen or whatevs... but what about resistances? Currently they are a meaningless stat to 90% of the population cos of the way penetration is working..... Why can't resistances matter? If baseline was brought up, it might encourage more people to consider swapping around into medium or heavy pieces to try unique builds.....Edited by Vangy on June 22, 2016 8:18AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
@STEVIL
Dude... You are taking this in the wrong context. Light armour should be weaker than medium and heavy in terms of mitigation. Agreed. But the way damage numbers are, setting the base as 0 resists is not a good idea. No one should have 0 protection.... Wearing 5 LA isnt really a choice when you are playing DPS. Its kind of a must-have...
What I want to see is the baseline for resists brought up. The average penetration be it from LA or sharpened maces etc is around 15k. Base armour for LA is like 10k...... Effectively you would have 0 mitigation even with 2 heavy.... Either penetration needs to be toned down, or the baseline be brought up.
Even a full-on tank with 35k resists is going to be brought down to a semi-light-armour wearer cos of penetration.... Tone down penetration and bring up resistance values of all armour pieces by a bit. Ideally, imo, LA should offer around 10% mitigation, medium can offer around 15, and tanks should have around 25% after all calculations of penetration.
Right now as it is, the trade off to make resistances worth it, is going FULL ON TANK. If you swap around 1 or 2 pieces or even 3 pieces to heavy, you wont even clear the 15-20k mark. People penetrate that literally with half a fart..... Trying to get resistances when you cant clear the 20k mark is meaningless.... You will just be gimping yourself by giving up damage to still have close to 0% mitigation....
Sure, we can talk all day long about getting more health or regen or whatevs... but what about resistances? Currently they are a meaningless stat to 90% of the population cos of the way penetration is working..... Why can't resistances matter? If baseline was brought up, it might encourage more people to consider swapping around into medium or heavy pieces to try unique builds.....
QUESTION: Unless i take a sharpened weapon, p[ick up a penetration boost from some skill or item, what is the default penetration for an attack? Obviously i can select items or skills that give me penetration boosts, but what is the base before that?
if the base penetration before taking some form of penetration boosting option is 0 and even wearing light armor gives everyone some baseline resistances making the baseline actually zero pen vs not-zero resist, is the bolded statement quoted above an objective fact or just a preference?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Base penetration is 0, armour base is 0.
Sharpened is 5.1k penetration
Mauls via 2h/dw is 20% armour penetration
Penetration from cp.
Major fracture is 5.1k
If someone uses 2h maul sharpenend with like 2k penetration from cp via a 35k armour taank then.
20% off 35k if 7k penetration.
5.1 + 5.1 + 2 = 12.2k
So roughly 19.2k penetration if someone actually uses a maul and has fracture.
Most build don't have fracture built in so reduce that by 5.1k.
Some builds don't use mauls because mauls are really only affect via high armour tanks, via medium or Light armour a sword is better.
So penetration only destroys tanks if someone builds for it.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1
