Damage shields nurfed to hard.

Brutusmax1mus · June 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Shield stacking was an issue, the solution was to make the critable. Crits on shields with no resist, would see them fall down consistently to pressure damage, without requiring four guys to do it.

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Put more skills into defense. You're just mad bc your cookie cutter build has a weakness now. As it should. Encase has no cc cool down, for rune will help but you tune to restack. I bet your dw, go staff for you knock back. Mines! If you can't kite with mines your bad at the game. Best area denial skill in the game.

Encase, the skill you can avoid by... Jumping? Come on man. What is that going to do against bow spam?

Mines are good, but your average Templar just ploughs through them and heals up.

There's a serious 'something' missing from the class, I hope they fix it soon. Sorc needs to be reworked so that they aren't dependent on shields.

Crit on shields can't work with then being halved. Unless resistance plays an effect. Otherwise id crit a shield for 12k all day.

Yes the one you can avoid by jumping. If someone especially a melee attacker if jumping they are severely messing up their dps and you should lose to them. No one good jumps around, and it's an instant cast that hits asap. I use it every day on every stamina melee character. It works. Bows are a different story youre right, but SKILLS SHOULD HAVE WEAKNESSES. Hence the shield change.

If someone plows through my mines and gets hit by 4 of 5, they are 1 instant frag cc, curse and mages wrath away from death. Curse and wrath are normally on them already to! If you happen to have a frag launch and move on. I'll low ball numbers for you on those attacks... 6k mines, 8k frag, 4k curse, 7k mages wrath. 25k damage will kill most people if you have applied any pressure. You do need to cc, so cs or frag is needed to do those heals you talk about. You could teleport too, forcing them to cc break or roll dodge to get you off your stun from steak or root from mines. Those heals also only really apply to magic templars.

I'll agree though, that it takes skill doing things this.

My 2 cents. I've been playing a sorcerer for 4 months and the change is definitely a change to get used to. But i don't think I'm any less deadly.

Night blades cloak does not work, at all. And that's their only defensive spell besides cc which is not class specific. Mainly speaking stamina bc magblades have 2 shields. If you can survive a night blades burst, you will most likely be fine. I literally put a crappy stamina tank build together for fun with the new dw heals. No vigor or rally. All blue gear with people weapons. 2k health regen, 35k health, 1450 weapon damage unbuffed. It's an awful character, as an altmer so no racial help . My opponent is a friend, full alchemist, kena, endurance. Owned him, never got below half health. Player skill means a lot. Good skill beats most night blades imo.

Stam dks are really strong. Not sure what to say about their weaknesses.

Cody · June 2016

was wondering why that sorc I killed last night seemed easier to kill than she would have been about 4ish months ago.

Mush55 · June 2016

Shield stacking is not an issue according to Mr Worble, cant blame people for using the tools at there disposal .

NativeJoe · June 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

As far as PvP goes, sorcs shields did not recieve anything close to a nerf. They still negate 100% crit damage and afaik nothing has changed with their max values/resource costs.

Here is a video example of it: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/S3r3n1ty17/video/18664329

I was only able to capture the last 20-30 seconds of the fight yet it lasted probably 2-3 minutes. You see me (stam nb) run clear out of resources while he is able to stack shields the entire fight until the other random with me (a mag nb) is able to squeeze off the last of his shields while I regen. If the numbers were reversed and he was able to go on the offense I have nothing but vigor and rally and maybe 3 cloaks for sustain which then means I cant buff my regen with relentless focus, all while taking crit damage .

Please reconsider what you call a nerf..if your a PvE sorc, I feel a bit more for you. PvP sorcs really screwed the PvE ones over.

ummmm... Sorry he didn't die faster? Sir he was playing defensivly and just trying to escape. of which his streak and everything didn't Let him do that. Your snares and gap closers where too OP... I think that is the issue.

As for you guys killing him. you guys weren't timing out your cc's and where not burst combo-ing People need to stop calling for nerfs simply because you don't understand how to play your character yet. Thats like me going out and hard casting frags at a dk using his flappies then coming on the forums telling everyone that it's OP and that I could never get past his defenses.
You have to know how to get around a sorcs defenses to kill them. this is true of every class.
Nightblade> you have to know how to pin them down avoid their burst and turn it into a sustain battle. counter their stealth
Templar> you have to either do more damage then their heals, defile them, or lure them out of their house and CC them.
DKs> You have to debuff their armor, attack their stamina, avoid their burst, and avoid doing direct damage attacks.
Sorcs> You have to attack their stamina, CC+burst combo every 5 seconds, use shield breaker, invest CPs into shield breaker star, use irresistible enchants, Out damage their shield with a combo, wear them out of their resources by putting them on the defensive, lock them down using bombard+negate and just kill them, equip sword and board and cheese bash them to death, etc...really sorcs have the WORST damage mitigation and MOST counters to them at this point in time.

Edit: And sorry, Im supposed to rely on randoms actually coordinating with me to take down your over powered shields? Most randoms arent even in the area chat, your lucky if you find another random that even has a mic in vet campaigns on xbox.

Sorry didn't even know you replied to me. *dumb new forum stuff* , Anyway I can't teach you to nightblade and deconing all your current gear obviously isn't going to help you. Hold the salt while I honestly try to help you out. I can't exactly show you a NB lay out and what it should be...because I'm not a nightblade. I'm a sorc...but being as I fight some of the toughiest people in the game, I can "show you" what a good nightblade looks like.

Great stamina Nightblade:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/70902772

What happens when you DON'T Stack attacks, just go nilly willy like you did in your video with a competent sorc.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71239630

At 40 seconds is basically what your going for in the magickal version of nightblades, for stamina is has to do with perhaps launching an arrow, then ambush + Fear+ ultimate. Every class can do pretty awesome combos.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71511748

What is a combo?
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72885890

This is what a combo is. ^^ Many things being timed to hit all at once. @Serenityx
My Pet had his 3 pulse damage and stun timed to hit when my Curse was going to explode.
I had a running poison dot.
Dawnbreaker Was ready to go as soon as the Curse exploded.
So basically he was being hit by pets, pet pulse, poison dot, curse, and dawnbreaker all at the same exact time. added up... No single shield could have thwarted that.

In your video you weren't doing these things...and that is why it took so long to kill your target. a sorc can mitigate small attacks, but a series of small attacks in a short window of time poses an issue.

Serenityx · June 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

As far as PvP goes, sorcs shields did not recieve anything close to a nerf. They still negate 100% crit damage and afaik nothing has changed with their max values/resource costs.

Here is a video example of it: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/S3r3n1ty17/video/18664329

I was only able to capture the last 20-30 seconds of the fight yet it lasted probably 2-3 minutes. You see me (stam nb) run clear out of resources while he is able to stack shields the entire fight until the other random with me (a mag nb) is able to squeeze off the last of his shields while I regen. If the numbers were reversed and he was able to go on the offense I have nothing but vigor and rally and maybe 3 cloaks for sustain which then means I cant buff my regen with relentless focus, all while taking crit damage .

Please reconsider what you call a nerf..if your a PvE sorc, I feel a bit more for you. PvP sorcs really screwed the PvE ones over.

ummmm... Sorry he didn't die faster? Sir he was playing defensivly and just trying to escape. of which his streak and everything didn't Let him do that. Your snares and gap closers where too OP... I think that is the issue.

As for you guys killing him. you guys weren't timing out your cc's and where not burst combo-ing People need to stop calling for nerfs simply because you don't understand how to play your character yet. Thats like me going out and hard casting frags at a dk using his flappies then coming on the forums telling everyone that it's OP and that I could never get past his defenses.
You have to know how to get around a sorcs defenses to kill them. this is true of every class.
Nightblade> you have to know how to pin them down avoid their burst and turn it into a sustain battle. counter their stealth
Templar> you have to either do more damage then their heals, defile them, or lure them out of their house and CC them.
DKs> You have to debuff their armor, attack their stamina, avoid their burst, and avoid doing direct damage attacks.
Sorcs> You have to attack their stamina, CC+burst combo every 5 seconds, use shield breaker, invest CPs into shield breaker star, use irresistible enchants, Out damage their shield with a combo, wear them out of their resources by putting them on the defensive, lock them down using bombard+negate and just kill them, equip sword and board and cheese bash them to death, etc...really sorcs have the WORST damage mitigation and MOST counters to them at this point in time.

Edit: And sorry, Im supposed to rely on randoms actually coordinating with me to take down your over powered shields? Most randoms arent even in the area chat, your lucky if you find another random that even has a mic in vet campaigns on xbox.

Sorry didn't even know you replied to me. *dumb new forum stuff* , Anyway I can't teach you to nightblade and deconing all your current gear obviously isn't going to help you. Hold the salt while I honestly try to help you out. I can't exactly show you a NB lay out and what it should be...because I'm not a nightblade. I'm a sorc...but being as I fight some of the toughiest people in the game, I can "show you" what a good nightblade looks like.

Great stamina Nightblade:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/70902772

What happens when you DON'T Stack attacks, just go nilly willy like you did in your video with a competent sorc.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71239630

At 40 seconds is basically what your going for in the magickal version of nightblades, for stamina is has to do with perhaps launching an arrow, then ambush + Fear+ ultimate. Every class can do pretty awesome combos.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71511748

What is a combo?
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72885890

This is what a combo is. ^^ Many things being timed to hit all at once. @Serenityx
My Pet had his 3 pulse damage and stun timed to hit when my Curse was going to explode.
I had a running poison dot.
Dawnbreaker Was ready to go as soon as the Curse exploded.
So basically he was being hit by pets, pet pulse, poison dot, curse, and dawnbreaker all at the same exact time. added up... No single shield could have thwarted that.

In your video you weren't doing these things...and that is why it took so long to kill your target. a sorc can mitigate small attacks, but a series of small attacks in a short window of time poses an issue.

I dont understand what point your trying to make here. What is the point of your first video link? You say "great stam nb" but all he is able to do is sustain and cloak while you shield and curse him. When was the last time you played a class other than sorc?

As for your second video, I only watched the first half or so of it. I dont think that it is a fair comparison at all to my video clip. You only saw the last 40 seconds of a 3 minute 2v1. I was able to sustain and maintain DPS through out the first 2 minutes the clip just happens to begin at the point where Im out of stamina completely. You can see I have decent regen as it doesnt take me long to get back on the sorc. The players in your clip seemed to be new to PvP, any sane solo player whos under CR501 but has still put time in cyrodil doesnt *** with sorcs in IC sewers unless their geared for it.

Your third video also holds 0 value to me. I think it does however show your a good sorc player, you obviously know what your doing. That definitely contributes to how well your class performs. But it still doesnt pursuade me that your shields are balanced in any way. I doubt the damage you dealt in this clip would have put down a sorc. Sure it would rip through his shields, and maybe get his health bar pretty low only for him to re-apply shields and heal.

Also, you only died once in all three of those videos. Notice how the one time you died your shields were not active. Your proving my point for me, you must be blind if you still think your shields are balanced.

"In your video you weren't doing these things...and that is why it took so long to kill your target. a sorc can mitigate small attacks, but a series of small attacks in a short window of time poses an issue"

I dont think you really thought this part out. You said you dont even play nb, you dont even know what is and what isnt capeable of getting through your shields. Unless I stack into *** blows or run shield breaker 5pc Im at a huge disadvantage to your shields, no matter how good I am at this game or as a NB.

Vangy · June 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

As far as PvP goes, sorcs shields did not recieve anything close to a nerf. They still negate 100% crit damage and afaik nothing has changed with their max values/resource costs.

Here is a video example of it: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/S3r3n1ty17/video/18664329

I was only able to capture the last 20-30 seconds of the fight yet it lasted probably 2-3 minutes. You see me (stam nb) run clear out of resources while he is able to stack shields the entire fight until the other random with me (a mag nb) is able to squeeze off the last of his shields while I regen. If the numbers were reversed and he was able to go on the offense I have nothing but vigor and rally and maybe 3 cloaks for sustain which then means I cant buff my regen with relentless focus, all while taking crit damage .

Please reconsider what you call a nerf..if your a PvE sorc, I feel a bit more for you. PvP sorcs really screwed the PvE ones over.

ummmm... Sorry he didn't die faster? Sir he was playing defensivly and just trying to escape. of which his streak and everything didn't Let him do that. Your snares and gap closers where too OP... I think that is the issue.

As for you guys killing him. you guys weren't timing out your cc's and where not burst combo-ing People need to stop calling for nerfs simply because you don't understand how to play your character yet. Thats like me going out and hard casting frags at a dk using his flappies then coming on the forums telling everyone that it's OP and that I could never get past his defenses.
You have to know how to get around a sorcs defenses to kill them. this is true of every class.
Nightblade> you have to know how to pin them down avoid their burst and turn it into a sustain battle. counter their stealth
Templar> you have to either do more damage then their heals, defile them, or lure them out of their house and CC them.
DKs> You have to debuff their armor, attack their stamina, avoid their burst, and avoid doing direct damage attacks.
Sorcs> You have to attack their stamina, CC+burst combo every 5 seconds, use shield breaker, invest CPs into shield breaker star, use irresistible enchants, Out damage their shield with a combo, wear them out of their resources by putting them on the defensive, lock them down using bombard+negate and just kill them, equip sword and board and cheese bash them to death, etc...really sorcs have the WORST damage mitigation and MOST counters to them at this point in time.

Edit: And sorry, Im supposed to rely on randoms actually coordinating with me to take down your over powered shields? Most randoms arent even in the area chat, your lucky if you find another random that even has a mic in vet campaigns on xbox.

Sorry didn't even know you replied to me. *dumb new forum stuff* , Anyway I can't teach you to nightblade and deconing all your current gear obviously isn't going to help you. Hold the salt while I honestly try to help you out. I can't exactly show you a NB lay out and what it should be...because I'm not a nightblade. I'm a sorc...but being as I fight some of the toughiest people in the game, I can "show you" what a good nightblade looks like.

Great stamina Nightblade:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/70902772

What happens when you DON'T Stack attacks, just go nilly willy like you did in your video with a competent sorc.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71239630

At 40 seconds is basically what your going for in the magickal version of nightblades, for stamina is has to do with perhaps launching an arrow, then ambush + Fear+ ultimate. Every class can do pretty awesome combos.
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71511748

What is a combo?
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72885890

This is what a combo is. ^^ Many things being timed to hit all at once. @Serenityx
My Pet had his 3 pulse damage and stun timed to hit when my Curse was going to explode.
I had a running poison dot.
Dawnbreaker Was ready to go as soon as the Curse exploded.
So basically he was being hit by pets, pet pulse, poison dot, curse, and dawnbreaker all at the same exact time. added up... No single shield could have thwarted that.

In your video you weren't doing these things...and that is why it took so long to kill your target. a sorc can mitigate small attacks, but a series of small attacks in a short window of time poses an issue.

I dont understand what point your trying to make here. What is the point of your first video link? You say "great stam nb" but all he is able to do is sustain and cloak while you shield and curse him. When was the last time you played a class other than sorc?

As for your second video, I only watched the first half or so of it. I dont think that it is a fair comparison at all to my video clip. You only saw the last 40 seconds of a 3 minute 2v1. I was able to sustain and maintain DPS through out the first 2 minutes the clip just happens to begin at the point where Im out of stamina completely. You can see I have decent regen as it doesnt take me long to get back on the sorc. The players in your clip seemed to be new to PvP, any sane solo player whos under CR501 but has still put time in cyrodil doesnt *** with sorcs in IC sewers unless their geared for it.

Your third video also holds 0 value to me. I think it does however show your a good sorc player, you obviously know what your doing. That definitely contributes to how well your class performs. But it still doesnt pursuade me that your shields are balanced in any way. I doubt the damage you dealt in this clip would have put down a sorc. Sure it would rip through his shields, and maybe get his health bar pretty low only for him to re-apply shields and heal.

Also, you only died once in all three of those videos. Notice how the one time you died your shields were not active. Your proving my point for me, you must be blind if you still think your shields are balanced.

"In your video you weren't doing these things...and that is why it took so long to kill your target. a sorc can mitigate small attacks, but a series of small attacks in a short window of time poses an issue"

I dont think you really thought this part out. You said you dont even play nb, you dont even know what is and what isnt capeable of getting through your shields. Unless I stack into *** blows or run shield breaker 5pc Im at a huge disadvantage to your shields, no matter how good I am at this game or as a NB.

I play NB. I can give u a detailed breakdown on how I deal with 90% of sorcs;

Spot Le wild sorc;
1. Buffs up. Sneaky sneaky.
2. Sniperino + ambush (hit ambush just as your bow lets loose)
3. You are now right on top of sorc with snipe just about to land. Cast fear.
4. Incap/DB + KBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKBKB
5. Tea bag x 5
6. Sneaky sneaky before his friends come frag u.

Works 90% of the time. Ofcourse good sorcs can still break free and shield up and retaliate in time. But they will be so far behind that they have to go full potato defensive mashing their face onto hardened ward. Basically just keep up pressure and 1 or 2 fears later execute the combo again. They will gg.

americansteel · June 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.

shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.

the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.

.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.

do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.

templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.

alakmir · June 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a couple of posts that were not contributing to the conversation. Keep it civil, guys.

ur actions make us uncivil ... may be it is time after 2 years that u learn to make smart decisions about the game now ?

leepalmer95 · June 2016

americansteel wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.

shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.

the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.

.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.

do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.

templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.

Templars and dk's aren't in a bad spot, what game have you been playing?

holosoul · June 2016

americansteel wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.

shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.

the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.

.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.

do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.

templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.

if you see a sorc cast 3 shields, just cast vigor
by the time vigor animates you can gap close since the first shield will be gone by the time your gap closer arrives

Minalan · June 2016

americansteel wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

nissan_drifter_07rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure many people will disagree but the 73% nurf on damage shields is just sad 6s is just not enough time. Why 6s by the time you cast your shields and go to attack they are gone it makes them kind of pointless besides trying to spam them while being attacked to stop your health dropping but they don't really do much anymore. Light armor users need to have that bit of damage mitigation that damage shields provide because without them light armor is not even worth putting on. 10s for damage shields should have been enough a 50% reduction would be fine but not what they put in place its just to much.

shield stacking brings massive imbalance this game still caters to sorc and NB sadly! you should be thankful that you get to use 3 shields while my templar is a sitting duck with no mobility poor dps and trash sustain after DB update.

the shield nerf is fair and to put straight to you there needs to be another nerf.

.... Don't give me... Shields are just a NB or Sorc BS.... https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/53483844 <<<< proof that Templars can shield stack as much or better then EVERYONE ELSE. Check the templar in my party viewer up top on the left hand side as he's doing vma with me in group.

do templars have hardened ward? no they dont thats the problem in ESO a class specifically built for high dps with insane mobility and incredible defense too much defense! this class has its cake and can eat it too.

templars are terrible and like DK both are in a bad spot while NB and Sorc dominates pvp.

For someone whining so much about the game, you sure don't know much about it.

Yes, Templars do have 'Hardened Ward'. If you wear 7 pieces of light armor and choose the 'Dampen Magicka' morph of the light armor shield, you get a shield bigger than hardened ward, that lasts just as long, and costs about the same.

Now sorcs have no real unique class defense and it's showing.

NativeJoe · June 2016

@Serenityx

I heard you. But one this I want to point out... is when I died in the previous video... Yes my shields where down...but I'm also I'm in 5 piece heavy armor, have 22k resistance to magick there, 27k hp, 34 points into resist elemental resistance/magick resistance, and he stacked his attacks into a 1 second combo that instantly obliterated me. How does that not hold value? Every 5 seconds on a sorc there is a window of time in which you can CC them/fear or whatever... and their shieldless...u then have more then 1 second to get your combo off.

What I'm trying to say is you need to get your combo's down and if your dps isn't good enough to go through shields. Then make sure your burst combo is, and your timing your attacks.

Here is a insanely strong meta sorc... maybe one of the best in the game. I am not trying to go through his shields. For me and my build... that is an impossible task. instead I keep up the pressure, burn his resources, and attack his stamina until I can get an opening to smash his hp.

Me fighting Meta Sorcs:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291306
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291880

I think these videos might help a bit... because like your nightblade I just can't go up to these awesome players a punch them to get to their health. Like you I can't go through a 12k shield, let alone a 17k shield or more. But then again I don't try too. I go around them.

It's just if you don't go about fighting sorcs in a reasonable manner you end up with a situation like this > https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/73450810 < where hoping and praying for numbers to arrive to help you take them down...doesn't always happen.

But seriously sorcs arn't the biggest issue out there...what would you do if you had to fight someone like this? https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72090726 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and this is something EVERY stamina based person can do.

The TL;Didn't watch is... Meta sorcs have easy and obvious openings in their shields now, exploit it and combo up, or you simply will lose. WW's are super powerful now, and any stamina class can rock it and in that respect probably rock the world of 95% of sorcs out there.

Dradhok · June 2016

I agree that the shield nerf made them almost useless in pve. I don't pvp much but I can only imagine how squishy they are now.

Brutusmax1mus · June 2016

You're not squishy in pve if you know the fight and anticipate when big hits are coming...

Brutusmax1mus · June 2016

Good sorcs aren't having an issue in pvp or pve

NativeJoe · June 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Good sorcs aren't having an issue in pvp or pve

.... by issues you mean....?

Good sorcs havn't noticed any changes? is I'm guessing what your saying. ....

Well I'm a good sorc, and I know things have changed, every other class saw buffs, mine didn't. That alone means I am weaker this patch then last. But thats not where it stopped. They went further to nerf the duration of shields which effects dps, resource management, and the viability of many builds other then the meta. We lost dawnbreaker of smiting, 9% spell power verses undead and daedra, the costs of lots of things went up, and yes... some attacks like Curse and proxy did receive a cut to their damage...which throws off alot of old sorc burst combos.

Just because I'm out here killing people somewhat effectively, doesn't mean that the class is fine at all. from the new to mediocre sorcs out there... they're having a horrible time trying to be competitive in dungeons and survive pvp at all. And even some elites just don't know what to do at this at this point, and worse still some just don't want to fight an up hill battle and are retiring their sorcs.

Then we have on going requests coming in from new players everywhere that encounter a sorc trying to escape...saying, "they Need to die faster because they're OP..."

we're not "fine" and with only the elites and true die hards trying to push the square class into a round hole... it's prolly screwing up the metrics of the classes performance because if we're only judging the performance of the elite... we're definitely going to see another series of nerfs laid on top of this one.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

@deepseamk20b14_ESO all the shields scale off max magicka what are you even talking about

edit: except bone shield
edit2: also your friend would have 15k in PVP since they're reduced by half in cyrodiil, and he was talking about multiple shields applied at once

As I said, not all shields go off of magicka. Anyways....

They have 18k to 20k shields now and that's just hardened ward no stack. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Believe it or not there are above average players out there who know how to build their character. I know, amazing right? Yes, shields were cut in half but it doesnt mean they didn't spec to increase said shields to make up for the nerf. Unless you are an invisible ghost who follows us around and watches my groups shields you'll have to take my word for it. I could take a screen shot but I'm sure you'd argue that too. Plus, my point that shields are a pain but NOT OP still stands. This coming from a person who does not use shields.

holosoul · June 2016

@deepseamk20b14_ESO no one has a 40k hardened ward
That's what your implying, that your friend has a 40k hardened ward which is 20k in cyrodiil

no, no he doesn't
his hardened ward is 10k in cyrodiil if it's 20k in PVE

if he put 100 in bastion and had 50k magicka maybe he could have a 13k hardened ward in cyrodiil

NB and templar can just use annulment (light armor) which has the same shield value as hardened ward, along with healing ward. That way they can have the same shields as sorcs because competent sorcs are not stacking 3 shields simultaneously, and even if they did you could just wait literally '1' second for the first one to expire (just cast vigor while they take 4 seconds to swap and cast them), so there's that.

Serenityx · June 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

@Serenityx

I heard you. But one this I want to point out... is when I died in the previous video... Yes my shields where down...but I'm also I'm in 5 piece heavy armor, have 22k resistance to magick there, 27k hp, 34 points into resist elemental resistance/magick resistance, and he stacked his attacks into a 1 second combo that instantly obliterated me. How does that not hold value? Every 5 seconds on a sorc there is a window of time in which you can CC them/fear or whatever... and their shieldless...u then have more then 1 second to get your combo off.

What I'm trying to say is you need to get your combo's down and if your dps isn't good enough to go through shields. Then make sure your burst combo is, and your timing your attacks.

Here is a insanely strong meta sorc... maybe one of the best in the game. I am not trying to go through his shields. For me and my build... that is an impossible task. instead I keep up the pressure, burn his resources, and attack his stamina until I can get an opening to smash his hp.

Me fighting Meta Sorcs:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291306
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291880

I think these videos might help a bit... because like your nightblade I just can't go up to these awesome players a punch them to get to their health. Like you I can't go through a 12k shield, let alone a 17k shield or more. But then again I don't try too. I go around them.

It's just if you don't go about fighting sorcs in a reasonable manner you end up with a situation like this > https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/73450810 < where hoping and praying for numbers to arrive to help you take them down...doesn't always happen.

But seriously sorcs arn't the biggest issue out there...what would you do if you had to fight someone like this? https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72090726 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and this is something EVERY stamina based person can do.

The TL;Didn't watch is... Meta sorcs have easy and obvious openings in their shields now, exploit it and combo up, or you simply will lose. WW's are super powerful now, and any stamina class can rock it and in that respect probably rock the world of 95% of sorcs out there.

The video in which you die, I notice you didnt pull up the death recap. How do I tell what actual damage values you took and from what abilities? Im a console player so Im just assuming they were shown in those tiny little letters that I cant read. Also, I see your point that yes some players are able to combo some pretty massive hits especially in that specific situation, from stealth. Very easy to combo through 27k health that quick with the right gear/stealth passives, even with your heavy mitigation and resistance. When I said it holds no value, I didnt mean to denote this. It just has no place in a discussion about shields as yours werent up at the time.

And your other link is sort of a moot point here as well..Im not saying I dont have any issues against other classes, Ive definitely died more times to an NB or a templar more times than I have to sorc in small scale xvx situations. However I have to say this goes the other way too, I have not killed nearly as many sorcs as I have the other classes in cyrodil in any situation lest it be like 3-5v1-2..

I dont believe we're going to reach a middle ground here as you seem to think your class and shields are balanced against classes not specced completely into taking down shields. Yes, its 100% possible, but its just not worth my time when Im soloing cyrodil. Dont get me wrong either, I love a challenge and never expect or ask for your class to be reduced so much as to make it "easy". But spending 5-10 minutes 2v1ing a single player because of shields is just not fun.

NativeJoe · June 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

@Serenityx

I heard you. But one this I want to point out... is when I died in the previous video... Yes my shields where down...but I'm also I'm in 5 piece heavy armor, have 22k resistance to magick there, 27k hp, 34 points into resist elemental resistance/magick resistance, and he stacked his attacks into a 1 second combo that instantly obliterated me. How does that not hold value? Every 5 seconds on a sorc there is a window of time in which you can CC them/fear or whatever... and their shieldless...u then have more then 1 second to get your combo off.

What I'm trying to say is you need to get your combo's down and if your dps isn't good enough to go through shields. Then make sure your burst combo is, and your timing your attacks.

Here is a insanely strong meta sorc... maybe one of the best in the game. I am not trying to go through his shields. For me and my build... that is an impossible task. instead I keep up the pressure, burn his resources, and attack his stamina until I can get an opening to smash his hp.

Me fighting Meta Sorcs:
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291306
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72291880

I think these videos might help a bit... because like your nightblade I just can't go up to these awesome players a punch them to get to their health. Like you I can't go through a 12k shield, let alone a 17k shield or more. But then again I don't try too. I go around them.

It's just if you don't go about fighting sorcs in a reasonable manner you end up with a situation like this > https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/73450810 < where hoping and praying for numbers to arrive to help you take them down...doesn't always happen.

But seriously sorcs arn't the biggest issue out there...what would you do if you had to fight someone like this? https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/72090726 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and this is something EVERY stamina based person can do.

The TL;Didn't watch is... Meta sorcs have easy and obvious openings in their shields now, exploit it and combo up, or you simply will lose. WW's are super powerful now, and any stamina class can rock it and in that respect probably rock the world of 95% of sorcs out there.

The video in which you die, I notice you didnt pull up the death recap. How do I tell what actual damage values you took and from what abilities? Im a console player so Im just assuming they were shown in those tiny little letters that I cant read. Also, I see your point that yes some players are able to combo some pretty massive hits especially in that specific situation, from stealth. Very easy to combo through 27k health that quick with the right gear/stealth passives, even with your heavy mitigation and resistance. When I said it holds no value, I didnt mean to denote this. It just has no place in a discussion about shields as yours werent up at the time.

And your other link is sort of a moot point here as well..Im not saying I dont have any issues against other classes, Ive definitely died more times to an NB or a templar more times than I have to sorc in small scale xvx situations. However I have to say this goes the other way too, I have not killed nearly as many sorcs as I have the other classes in cyrodil in any situation lest it be like 3-5v1-2..

I dont believe we're going to reach a middle ground here as you seem to think your class and shields are balanced against classes not specced completely into taking down shields. Yes, its 100% possible, but its just not worth my time when Im soloing cyrodil. Dont get me wrong either, I love a challenge and never expect or ask for your class to be reduced so much as to make it "easy". But spending 5-10 minutes 2v1ing a single player because of shields is just not fun.

I can echo that sentiment. and I agree... it's not exactly fun trying to kill someone like that when you believe you should have the upper hand. I mean sorcs for all intents and purposes are the ANTI-Nightblade according to my kill counter results over the past 2 patches.

(kill counter is an addon that counts ur deaths, your kills, who kills you, what attack, vice versa and allows you to shed the "feelings" and see the "reality" of combat. IE I felt like WB and Radiant destruction where my primary killers last patch. Not true at all, it was actually proxy det and ambush. But it "felt" like it was the templars and stamina dks last patch. kill counter showed me otherwise. but to highlight my point of saying sorcs are the nightblade counter class look at my kill counter results
current patch:

Last dlc:

Like wise when I fight a templar that is just repeatedly healing themselves endlessly for a 10 minute fight...I let out a sigh as well. but they keep purging my dots, and putting eclipse on me so I can't dot them, or do direct damage skills towards them...so my dps is severely Cut, and with their massive healing per second... it's just to much. same thing with WW's wearing malubeth with their healing claws and everything. people stack their heals so high with regen builds and it's just endless.

Infact So many battles cannot be won in under a 15 minute time frame it is common practice for elites to use azura as a balancer* server without CP just to cut the fight times down.

NativeJoe · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

@deepseamk20b14_ESO no one has a 40k hardened ward
That's what your implying, that your friend has a 40k hardened ward which is 20k in cyrodiil

no, no he doesn't
his hardened ward is 10k in cyrodiil if it's 20k in PVE

if he put 100 in bastion and had 50k magicka maybe he could have a 13k hardened ward in cyrodiil

NB and templar can just use annulment (light armor) which has the same shield value as hardened ward, along with healing ward. That way they can have the same shields as sorcs because competent sorcs are not stacking 3 shields simultaneously, and even if they did you could just wait literally '1' second for the first one to expire (just cast vigor while they take 4 seconds to swap and cast them), so there's that.

Yeah guys <.< No 1 shield is granting them that sorta shield strength in pvp.

I don't usually shield stack, but when I do, I make sure I can't attack you back.

Autolycus · June 2016

I think the nerf was a bit too extreme. It seems to me that 10s Hardened Ward or 12s Empowered is reasonable, but as it stands, the only difference between Ward and Harness Magicka (for the most part, not looking for a detailed debate) is passive SD vs. magicka recovery, assuming a mag sorc not using any pets or anything that might benefit more from Ward.

I'll disagree that light armor is useless without Wards. My mag sorc doesn't make use of any Wards for group pve content, which I think it true for most sorcs that raid, save for a few exceptions (such as being a spear bait during Mantikora). I can argue it both ways to be honest; my main concern here is the duration. There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.

Vangy · June 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I think the nerf was a bit too extreme. It seems to me that 10s Hardened Ward or 12s Empowered is reasonable, but as it stands, the only difference between Ward and Harness Magicka (for the most part, not looking for a detailed debate) is passive SD vs. magicka recovery, assuming a mag sorc not using any pets or anything that might benefit more from Ward.

I'll disagree that light armor is useless without Wards. My mag sorc doesn't make use of any Wards for group pve content, which I think it true for most sorcs that raid, save for a few exceptions (such as being a spear bait during Mantikora). I can argue it both ways to be honest; my main concern here is the duration. There's not much benefit to using Ward over Harness anymore, and a class-specific skill should always be at least somewhat better than the version available to all.

I'd be okay with an 8 second hardened and 10s empowered if it will stop the whining on the forums.

psychotic13 · June 2016

Just make dark exchange insta cast, then we don't have to solely rely on a shield, it's that simple.

coolermh · June 2016

Just stop playing sorcer this quarter. That's what I am doing. Once ZoS realizes no one is playing sorc anymore they will get buffed again.

leepalmer95 · June 2016

oh look all the bad sorc in one thread...

Seriously shield stacking got buffed.

If you've seen a strong player using a sorc this patch there even harder to kill.

Increase shields to 10s if they are made critable.

holosoul · June 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

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How exactly was magicka sorc buffed again?

leepalmer95 · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

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How exactly was magicka sorc buffed again?

via harness now mitigating physical dmg.

holosoul · June 2016

I know you're trolling but just in case you really don't l2p magicka sorc, i will tell you:

3 shields and 2 bar swaps takes 4 seconds and no is doing that

change to harness is a nerf to magicka regen/management for sorc
every class _except_ magicka sorc was buffed by the change to annulment (harness magicka) since they gained a shield as powerful as hardened ward, with the same duration (more powerful than empowered ward mind you)
so you can cast healing ward + annulment and get a 2 shield stack
or you can cast healing ward + hardened ward for that same exact 2 shield stack with almost no difference whatsoever

if you fight a sorc who actually cast 3 shields for some reason, just cast vigor when you see them start to cast shields, between vigor, rally, and sustained restore health, you should have regenerated 8 - 10k health by the time they cast them.

Edit: protip, cast vigor again before you crit rush, the first shield will expire by the time you arrive

leepalmer95 · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

I know you're trolling but just in case you really don't l2p magicka sorc, i will tell you:

3 shields and 2 bar swaps takes 4 seconds and no is doing that

change to harness is a nerf to magicka regen/management for sorc
every class _except_ magicka sorc was buffed by the change to annulment (harness magicka) since they gained a shield as powerful as hardened ward, with the same duration (more powerful than empowered ward mind you)
so you can cast healing ward + annulment and get a 2 shield stack
or you can cast healing ward + hardened ward for that same exact 2 shield stack with almost no difference whatsoever

if you fight a sorc who actually cast 3 shields for some reason, just cast vigor when you see them start to cast shields, between vigor, rally, and sustained restore health, you should have regenerated 8 - 10k health by the time they cast them.

Edit: protip, cast vigor again before you crit rush, the first shield will expire by the time you arrive

3 shields? only time you should be up keeping healing ward is if someone actually managed to burst through your stack.

In pvp you recast shields quicker than 6s anyway, if someone actually competant is on you.

Difference is not healing ward + a shield.

It's the fact sorc can use hardened + harness, thats as always the problem the stacking of those two and in this patch that stacking got improved.

How about some sorc stop going full glass cannon? Unless your actually pay attention which most of the FOTM sorc didn't they just stacked and went of the offensive for 20s because they were 100% safe. Go full impen, run around 22-25k hp and people won't burst you when your shields are down. If you let them go down.