All the ways to defend yourself get nerfed consistently while burst just keeps being buffed. Defending yourself versus multiple people will run you out of resources in 10 seconds while the people zerging you have no such issues.

Block, and you'll lose your stamina regen and run dry incredibly quickly. Roll dodge a bunch, and you'll be out of stamina due to the cost increase mechanic. Then there's class specific defense nerfs like the streak cost increase and the 4-projectile limit on reflective scales. Even shields got a soft nerf across the board now.

More recently, mobility has been nerfed across the board too. Major Expedition took a hit while everybody seemingly moves slower in general.This is a really big deal when most of the meta is about kiting and avoiding damage in the first place. Even group play took a hit with the rapid maneuvers and barrier nerfs.

I don't know why anyone expects differently anymore. Literally every major change theyve made since 1.6 has been a nerf to defense and a buff to offense. When this game's developers work so hard to kill any kind of counterplay, what else can there then be besides a numbers game?

The interesting thing to me is that this is probably the patch most people have been waiting for: the end of the pain train as a dominant tactic in Cyrodiil.

It just doesn't really work anymore. Damage is too high and mobility is too low and death is too cheap. What you kill with s train won't stay dead, and everyone and their mother has a bow. Spread out, bombard bombard bombard, maybe drop a negate when the train tries to cluster and recover. The simple truth of it is that sustain is dead: too much damage, too many healing debuffs, too many skills like bombard and negate that cripple a groups ability to sustain against superior numbers by removing the ability to heal and maneuver.

Organized group play isn't dead, but I'd say this is the first time in 2 years that Trains aren't dominant. While I have been interested to see a meta focused on new tactics, I did not expect those tactics to be "in breakable negate and bombard". ZoS you clever.....

We should all play like this small man EP group

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q8-2fjZ5J6o

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Im actually having so much fun this patch. This patch has resparked my love for eso. Damage is only high if you are wearing light armor and medium. People wearing heavy/malubeth and permablocking are to kill. This patch feels right(obviously there a terrible amounts of bugs still)

This is cute.

2.5k eack sharpened weapon + 20% mace passive + 5k major breach + 1.5k minor breach + champion passives.

Lets say you have 30k armor. Your armor will be 13.5k before even champion passives. 5k from cp if maxed.. Enjoy your 8.5k armor.

Oh also you have nice sustain with that constitution? Let me apply a poison to increase your spell costs 60% more for 15 seconds.

Its unfortunate the combat system the game launched with has been perverted to this extent.

Caleum wrote: »

I am the type of player who likes to solo. The only time I group is with my wife in pvp. This is a choice of mine, and I understand there will be times when the deck is stacked against me because of that decision. With that said, I really feel this game lacks in pvp action for those who like to solo or run with small groups. Pvp is controlled by the zerg ball. Very little skill, just have team speak, stack on crown, cast your mag det, and above all, stay in the ball. The side with the largest coordinated ball wins.

That type of pvp is boring as heck. I fully support that type of game play for people who enjoy it, but would ask if we could have any other options?

Roll a magicka sorc and kick their asses like Germantrocity/Legendary Mage I'm being serious, but lets get even more serious : I agree with you.

Yeah, I sometimes get bored, too. Still waiting for them to at least consider adding "mobile flags" (supply and prisoner transports, intelligence operative couriers, etc) that can be captured/defended. Unlike more, well, elaborate suggestions, this is much simpler and offers more to do across the map, as well as being something quickly and readily accessible for solo players and truly small groups.

It doesn't change the build meta, but it could alter the objective meta and at least give people something different to focus on when the standard PvP fare gets stale.

jhharvest wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Organized group play isn't dead, but I'd say this is the first time in 2 years that Trains aren't dominant. While I have been interested to see a meta focused on new tactics, I did not expect those tactics to be "in breakable negate and bombard". ZoS you clever.....

You say that but the one build I've felt the need to do this patch only is an anti blob build to rack up kills. Inevitable detonation, vicious death, soul shatter - the most boring possible max range build and AP comes rolling in. It feels so cheap but my old play style of staying close and using active skills just doesn't work anymore. Get anywhere close the blob and it's instant death, cc locked down and melted.

I mean, that's exactly what I've said. Close combat in big fights isn't really a thing anymore. All my fights with the larger DC/EP zergs basically involve them backing up spamming bombard until they think it's a good time to rush in with a bunch of negates. CC is all there is now.

Valencer wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

The interesting thing to me is that this is probably the patch most people have been waiting for: the end of the pain train as a dominant tactic in Cyrodiil.

It just doesn't really work anymore. Damage is too high and mobility is too low and death is too cheap. What you kill with s train won't stay dead, and everyone and their mother has a bow. Spread out, bombard bombard bombard, maybe drop a negate when the train tries to cluster and recover. The simple truth of it is that sustain is dead: too much damage, too many healing debuffs, too many skills like bombard and negate that cripple a groups ability to sustain against superior numbers by removing the ability to heal and maneuver.

Organized group play isn't dead, but I'd say this is the first time in 2 years that Trains aren't dominant. While I have been interested to see a meta focused on new tactics, I did not expect those tactics to be "in breakable negate and bombard". ZoS you clever.....

The negates are just... wow. Imo they need to undo every stamina management / mobility nerf theyve ever done if they intend to keep them like this. Having negates be relevant again is great but lack of counterplay to them is not great.

And yeah, with the death of train dominance there's really only one thing left and that's the megazerg. Not exactly an improvement.

I've said this many times, that organized pain trains kept the zergs in check. ZoS went down a freaking list and ticked off every single thing that made an organized group work:

Mobility? Rapids nerf and bombard
Sustain? Heal nerf, purge nerf, barrier nerf, dynamic ulti removal, siege buff, introduction of Fasallas.

I could go on but eh. Old tactics do not work right now, and I'm.... I will say I am for the first time reluctant to adapt. As a guild we've always been cutting edge for metas but this one is ugly. I've as of yet avoided telling people to put on a bow and spam because I feel it's cancer and I don't really want to engage in it.

In the end, as has been in every patch, ZoS continues to make numbers King. People can hate on the pain trains or "Zerg balls" all they want but at the end of the day, groups like mine could go against a force 2-5 times our size and win. I can make changes to my group comp, sets, etc but it won't change the sheer advantage ZoS continues to give to numbers.

For about a week after DB came out those ball zergs weren't so powerful. They went down easily. Lag was also better. Now sometimes I'm showing 20-30 FPS but getting slideshow like performance. I think the big fix they need to make is getting a handle on the CE. Not only is it bad for business, it makes balance impossible to determine and it seems to hurt server performance.

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

theres a time to push into zergs/bomb and a time to spread out encircle your enemy and chip them away until a final push is necessary to finish em off. If your only making a fancy little line and moving up and back your going to lose and it will be frustrating. While the current situation in cyro isnt ideal i love the fact that old tactics cannot be recycled over and over, it wasnt hard for my guild to adapt but all i see are groups playing like it was a year ago and screaming how lame the enviroment is cause it doesnt work anymore. Make some changes and roll with it until CU

Groups are having trouble adapting because fundamental counters are straight up broken. Purge is a huge issue, in that right now the "adapt" strategy seems to be stacking as much bombard as possible, which stacks roots and poisons combined with fasallas and other debuffs-- and there is no counter. You literally cannot remove these debuffs because purge is literally broken.

The only reason it's working right now is because the abilities that would normally be used to counter a Zerg using Bombard Spam are broken. There is no open field counter play. It is the same with negates now that they are Unbreakable: bombard spam keeps you in negates, so you are forced to counter negate. Then it comes down to who has *more* negates.

It is what it is, but I'll straight up scoff at anyone proud of themselves for "adapting" to this meta. More numbers + more roots + poisons and debuffs that can't be purged. Throw in some negates once the enemy is bogged down in a sea of bombard and siege. There, I just theory crafted the entire patch. The counter play is called : bring more numbers. Thanks ZoS.

I don't know why people continue to assume that numbers = king. Teamwork and coordination is what's king.

I've been saying for months now to come to Haderus for good fights. Sorry to the small scale kids but I'll run my capped 16 raids there because I enjoy actually being able to fight due to a reduction in lag compared to TF.. and plus, I prefer it when my enemy does fight as opposed to abusing lag tactics to run inside the keep and flip the flags and leave again without ever actually fighting.

I've even had K-Hole all roll EP characters in an effort to maintain map balance, which so far has been a fun experiment.

OdinForge wrote: »

Keiryan wrote: »

I've even had K-Hole all roll EP characters in an effort to maintain map balance, which so far has been a fun experiment.

One minute I'm fighting side by side with K-Hole members.

The next minute I'm fighting you, immersions broken.

The Lord ISHAMMAEL works in mysterious ways.

PS. Hell with undaunted grind.
PPS. Someone please P2W my horse. OMFG