Growing tired of Perma-Root.

Ffastyl · June 2016

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

It doesn't stop negates

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

That's not gonna help a magicka build. There's also Shuffle to remove snares. I know stamina is the meta but some of us stick to a main, mine happens to be a Templar so he has a good remedy to snares and roots but it still grinds on you, over and over. It's sapping the fun out of PvP.

outsideworld76 · June 2016

Nothing wrong with bombard. Stop asking for a nerf and L2P.

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Agree with that and yeah, 1v1 is stam NB hands down.

DDuke · June 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Agree with that and yeah, 1v1 is stam NB hands down.

Stamina NBs are only a problem for templars that aren't tanky enough. Rule of thumb: if someone can instagib you, then someone will instagib you.

Solution: don't be instagibbable.

Dueling track record this patch vs stamina NBs: 200-300 wins, 0 losses, 1 draw.

In fact, in EU duel spots atleast 80% of people you see right now are magicka templars and half of them use Malu even for duels... it's kinda sad tbh

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

outsideworld76 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with bombard. Stop asking for a nerf and L2P.

Lol

Roechacca · June 2016

I went in for a few tonight and PvP'd. The stun locks and perma roots locking my character down was pretty damn annoying. If that's the new meta then I'm gonna go buy some reactive and see if that helps. I hate perma blocking.

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

DDuke wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Agree with that and yeah, 1v1 is stam NB hands down.

Stamina NBs are only a problem for templars that aren't tanky enough. Rule of thumb: if someone can instagib you, then someone will instagib you.

Solution: don't be instagibbable.

Dueling track record this patch vs stamina NBs: 200-300 wins, 0 losses, 1 draw.

In fact, in EU duel spots atleast 80% of people you see right now are magicka templars and half of them use Malu even for duels... it's kinda sad tbh

My Orc stamblade has no trouble dealing with Templars. I'll just leave it at that as I wish discussion was about being constantly rooted in Cyrodiil atm.

DDuke · June 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Agree with that and yeah, 1v1 is stam NB hands down.

Stamina NBs are only a problem for templars that aren't tanky enough. Rule of thumb: if someone can instagib you, then someone will instagib you.

Solution: don't be instagibbable.

Dueling track record this patch vs stamina NBs: 200-300 wins, 0 losses, 1 draw.

In fact, in EU duel spots atleast 80% of people you see right now are magicka templars and half of them use Malu even for duels... it's kinda sad tbh

My Orc stamblade has no trouble dealing with Templars. I'll just leave it at that as I wish discussion was about being constantly rooted in Cyrodiil atm.

It kind of is about getting constantly rooted, as that is the only way certain builds stand even the slightest chance against melee opponents such as magicka templars in 1v1.

It's what currently enables kiting in this game, the only thing that prevents someone from spamming a gap closer at you & just staying in melee range 24/7.

Sure, it's annoying af when getting zerged. But let me tell you something: there's about a dozen other things to complain about when getting zerged - and it all leads down to one problem: getting zerged.

I don't think game should be balanced around 1vX - but ZOS should implement those BGs/Arenas asap so there's an alternative to getting zerged in Cyrodiil.

Sallington · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

[snip] but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed. [snip]

Well that just doesn't sound like something ZOS would do.

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

DDuke wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Agree with that and yeah, 1v1 is stam NB hands down.

Stamina NBs are only a problem for templars that aren't tanky enough. Rule of thumb: if someone can instagib you, then someone will instagib you.

Solution: don't be instagibbable.

Dueling track record this patch vs stamina NBs: 200-300 wins, 0 losses, 1 draw.

In fact, in EU duel spots atleast 80% of people you see right now are magicka templars and half of them use Malu even for duels... it's kinda sad tbh

My Orc stamblade has no trouble dealing with Templars. I'll just leave it at that as I wish discussion was about being constantly rooted in Cyrodiil atm.

It kind of is about getting constantly rooted, as that is the only way certain builds stand even the slightest chance against melee opponents such as magicka templars in 1v1.

It's what currently enables kiting in this game, the only thing that prevents someone from spamming a gap closer at you & just staying in melee range 24/7.

Sure, it's annoying af when getting zerged. But let me tell you something: there's about a dozen other things to complain about when getting zerged - and it all leads down to one problem: getting zerged.

I don't think game should be balanced around 1vX - but ZOS should implement those BGs/Arenas asap so there's an alternative to getting zerged in Cyrodiil.

It would be awesome!

Astanphaeus · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, roots are mostly a problem when you're outnumbered. In 1v1/1vX, I can see how multiple builds would just melt without them.

The main benefactor of a root immunity would be the magicka templar, which is already easily the strongest 1v1 class in Dark Brotherhood patch.

For those reasons I really cant get behind a root immunity of any kind.

What I'd like to see though is the ability to turn while rooted. Being unable to turn around & face your enemies is ridiculous and feels clunky.

And BGs/Arenas - as the main problem is getting zerged.

Mag DK are in the same boat. Both suffered through the permaroot and snare meta of TG. Mist form helps a bunch in DB but ultimately it's just a superficial band-aid fix to a huge problem that was never adequately addressed.

Also, 1v1 strongest contenders would go to stam IMO, not magicka.

Yeah, I'm going to agree that magicka templar isn't the strongest in a 1v1. As a magicka dk, I actually consider them the second least threatening beat out only by other magicka dks. Biting Jab spammers would be among those who would benefit the most though as I use talons to keep them locked not facing me.

Jules · June 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

But rally.

Telel · June 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

Khajiit's been using this for months even before the update made it twice as good.

Having a buddy with retreating manouevers is also handy.

If you're as night blade you can just use Teleport strike or its morphs. Sorcerors have streak.

Templars have radiant newb beams and javelins. It's kind of hard to use bombard when you're knock over, stunned, and melting.

They also think that anyone who thinks bombard is 'to good' should actually try hitting a mobile opponent in PVP with it sometime.

Especially if said opponent is running a MASSIVE circular AOe, stuns, gap closers, shuffle, knock downs, etc, etc which are all far easier to use and aren't as effected by height differences like cone based AOEs are.

And if you're trying to smack just one person with it in any form of lag...well Telel thinks that hitting one time out of ten tries does not exacly make things 'to good'.

Zheg · June 2016

Telel wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

Khajiit's been using this for months even before the update made it twice as good.

Having a buddy with retreating manouevers is also handy.

If you're as night blade you can just use Teleport strike or its morphs. Sorcerors have streak.

Templars have radiant newb beams and javelins. It's kind of hard to use bombard when you're knock over, stunned, and melting.

They also think that anyone who thinks bombard is 'to good' should actually try hitting a mobile opponent in PVP with it sometime.

Especially if said opponent is running a MASSIVE circular AOe, stuns, gap closers, shuffle, knock downs, etc, etc which are all far easier to use and aren't as effected by height differences like cone based AOEs are.

And if you're trying to smack just one person with it in any form of lag...well Telel thinks that hitting one time out of ten tries does not exacly make things 'to good'.

Telel, when I made a stamplar on yellow and it was still a baby before the DB patch removed vet levels, I pretty much became a bombard spammer for 2-3 days of pvp. It was absurdly easy to do, absurdly effective, and the terrain issues you constantly talked about seemed to be the opposite for me. There was one time I was taking a resource, fired a bombard at the tower door on the ground and was able to bombard the mage guard on the 2nd floor.

You can take someone completely lacking in any pvp skill, put them on bombard spam, and as long as they're running with/near a group/obscene zerg they'll be almost as effective as top notch pvp'ers. It's silly. It needs to be reworked. I feel guilty asking one of our skilled stam players to bombard spam. It's too effective not to use it, but it's just... so... dumb.

kadar · June 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

That's not gonna help a magicka build. There's also Shuffle to remove snares. I know stamina is the meta but some of us stick to a main, mine happens to be a Templar so he has a good remedy to snares and roots but it still grinds on you, over and over. It's sapping the fun out of PvP.

Mistform = Magicka Shuffle

Bombard sucks but with 70% of the Cyrodiil running shuffle, and some running mistform/purge/pots/(apparently forward momentum), one realizes how many tools we actually do have against roots. As a long time bow user, I hate running bombard. I find it un-fun.

hammayolettuce · June 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Encase and talons are not an issue, however bombard is. Bombard needs like a .3 cast time in order to reduce the spam from it by the large groups. Its far too easy to use and soft cc many targets without having to be in the actual fight.

no cast time! give it the streak treatment!

KenaPKK · June 2016

It's a feature.

WillhelmBlack · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Encase and talons are not an issue, however bombard is. Bombard needs like a .3 cast time in order to reduce the spam from it by the large groups. Its far too easy to use and soft cc many targets without having to be in the actual fight.

no cast time! give it the streak treatment!

Huzzah!

Lore_lai · June 2016

outsideworld76 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with bombard. Stop asking for a nerf and L2P.

Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

NO

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

Getting tired of seeing bowtards doing 1k spambards safe behind a zerg, yet perma snaring everybody,

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

That's not gonna help a magicka build. There's also Shuffle to remove snares. I know stamina is the meta but some of us stick to a main, mine happens to be a Templar so he has a good remedy to snares and roots but it still grinds on you, over and over. It's sapping the fun out of PvP.

Mistform = Magicka Shuffle

Bombard sucks but with 70% of the Cyrodiil running shuffle, and some running mistform/purge/pots/(apparently forward momentum), one realizes how many tools we actually do have against roots. As a long time bow user, I hate running bombard. I find it un-fun.

Mist Form is life. This guy understands. Seriously, roll a Vampire. This bombard "issue" becomes so irrelevant that I can honestly say I didn't know it was an issue until this thread.

Telel · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

Khajiit's been using this for months even before the update made it twice as good.

Having a buddy with retreating manouevers is also handy.

If you're as night blade you can just use Teleport strike or its morphs. Sorcerors have streak.

Templars have radiant newb beams and javelins. It's kind of hard to use bombard when you're knock over, stunned, and melting.

They also think that anyone who thinks bombard is 'to good' should actually try hitting a mobile opponent in PVP with it sometime.

Especially if said opponent is running a MASSIVE circular AOe, stuns, gap closers, shuffle, knock downs, etc, etc which are all far easier to use and aren't as effected by height differences like cone based AOEs are.

And if you're trying to smack just one person with it in any form of lag...well Telel thinks that hitting one time out of ten tries does not exacly make things 'to good'.

Telel, when I made a stamplar on yellow and it was still a baby before the DB patch removed vet levels, I pretty much became a bombard spammer for 2-3 days of pvp. It was absurdly easy to do, absurdly effective, and the terrain issues you constantly talked about seemed to be the opposite for me. There was one time I was taking a resource, fired a bombard at the tower door on the ground and was able to bombard the mage guard on the 2nd floor.

You can take someone completely lacking in any pvp skill, put them on bombard spam, and as long as they're running with/near a group/obscene zerg they'll be almost as effective as top notch pvp'ers. It's silly. It needs to be reworked. I feel guilty asking one of our skilled stam players to bombard spam. It's too effective not to use it, but it's just... so... dumb.

Telel did not say it was hard to hit with in PVE or against stationary targets.

Rather khajiit pointed out that against other players whom also have many many many many options it is nowhere near as easy to use as many man...you get the idea, options. Options that have fewer counters.

In fact this one is still being run over by the 'old' prox blobs spamming shards as they hurtle forwards in an unstoppable tide more often than they encounter a player using bombard.

And then there is of course the newb beam which is undodgable, spammable, has nearly twice the range of bombard, an execute, can heal, AND now breaks a humble sad blade's clock half the time.

Zheg · June 2016

Telel wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Guys,

Forward Momentum.

Eight.
Seconds.
Of.
Snare/Root.
Immunity.

Khajiit's been using this for months even before the update made it twice as good.

Having a buddy with retreating manouevers is also handy.

If you're as night blade you can just use Teleport strike or its morphs. Sorcerors have streak.

Templars have radiant newb beams and javelins. It's kind of hard to use bombard when you're knock over, stunned, and melting.

They also think that anyone who thinks bombard is 'to good' should actually try hitting a mobile opponent in PVP with it sometime.

Especially if said opponent is running a MASSIVE circular AOe, stuns, gap closers, shuffle, knock downs, etc, etc which are all far easier to use and aren't as effected by height differences like cone based AOEs are.

And if you're trying to smack just one person with it in any form of lag...well Telel thinks that hitting one time out of ten tries does not exacly make things 'to good'.

Telel, when I made a stamplar on yellow and it was still a baby before the DB patch removed vet levels, I pretty much became a bombard spammer for 2-3 days of pvp. It was absurdly easy to do, absurdly effective, and the terrain issues you constantly talked about seemed to be the opposite for me. There was one time I was taking a resource, fired a bombard at the tower door on the ground and was able to bombard the mage guard on the 2nd floor.

You can take someone completely lacking in any pvp skill, put them on bombard spam, and as long as they're running with/near a group/obscene zerg they'll be almost as effective as top notch pvp'ers. It's silly. It needs to be reworked. I feel guilty asking one of our skilled stam players to bombard spam. It's too effective not to use it, but it's just... so... dumb.

Telel did not say it was hard to hit with in PVE or against stationary targets.

Rather khajiit pointed out that against other players whom also have many many many many options it is nowhere near as easy to use as many man...you get the idea, options. Options that have fewer counters.

In fact this one is still being run over by the 'old' prox blobs spamming shards as they hurtle forwards in an unstoppable tide more often than they encounter a player using bombard.

And then there is of course the newb beam which is undodgable, spammable, has nearly twice the range of bombard, an execute, can heal, AND now breaks a humble sad blade's clock half the time.

Shards and jesus beam, you must really hate templars

I wasn't talking about pve telel, the fact that in cyrodiil I can hit a mage guard on the second floor with bombard while I'm on the first floor attacking targets below it was my point. I played with bombard for days, and I'm sorry, I did not experience any of the difficulties you usually mention when talking about the skill. I'm not saying there aren't any - you've used it far longer than I did, but the ease and benefits of spamming that skill over and over was instantly clear as soon as I started doing it on my lowbie. You may not like prox bombs, but they're easy as F to move out of. Just about every veteran pvper knows how to get out of the way, and if they don't it's usually because of lag or they were caught with a stun from something they didn't see coming. Prox is hardly healthy for pvp, but bombard is worse. Trying to say bombard needs to stay because it's an aggravating counter to a lesser problem in the game is bad logic. There is a reason successful games do not allow for perma CC any more, and the fact that you can permaroot in ESO is indicative of amateurish developer decisions - not sound balance.

Telel · June 2016

@Zheg remember Telel fights organized EP groups a lot and they're like 90% templars...

Now Telel is not going to say Bombard should never ever ever be changed or diminished. However for them to think that it is indeed problematic we would first have to see about dealing with the far worse issues and skills that promote blobbing, mindless skill spamming of super efficient AOEs, and of course...all those newb beams.

Then once the need for a quick and handy rooting mechanism is gone one can turn their attention to the thing that is the hard counter to so many potato strategies employed by the 'got guds'.

Zheg · June 2016

Telel wrote: »

@Zheg remember Telel fights organized EP groups a lot and they're like 90% templars...

Now Telel is not going to say Bombard should never ever ever be changed or diminished. However for them to think that it is indeed problematic we would first have to see about dealing with the far worse issues and skills that promote blobbing, mindless skill spamming of super efficient AOEs, and of course...all those newb beams.

Then once the need for a quick and handy rooting mechanism is gone one can turn their attention to the thing that is the hard counter to so many potato strategies employed by the 'got guds'.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Everything you mentioned: issues and skills that promote blobbing, mindless skill spamming of super efficient AOEs, and ... newbs - these are all things I associate with bombard. I don't think it's healthy to ignore one problem because there are still other problems. That's an all or nothing approach, and it's unrealistic. We can disagree on which problems are more severe and that's fine, I just happen to strongly believe that bombard and permaroot/snare is one of the most pressing.

Anazasi · June 2016

I dont mind the root but when you are perma locked and cant cast anything there is a problem. It needs to be fixed there is no question about it.

There is no skill in this mechanic especially when there is no counter to it. All you can do is die. Very poor mechanic.

Earthewen · June 2016

I think a temporary immunity after the first root would make things a bit more exciting. would be harder for those massive zergs to run through killing everything in their path. immunity of at least 10 sec would be awesome.

WreckfulAbandon · June 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Encase and talons are not an issue, however bombard is. Bombard needs like a .3 cast time in order to reduce the spam from it by the large groups. Its far too easy to use and soft cc many targets without having to be in the actual fight.

no cast time! give it the streak treatment!

Even Robin Hood couldn't put as many arrows down range as a bombard user.

Cast time makes sense, no one can fire full quivers off that quickly.

And yes, this is considering that there elves, magic, and cat ppl in the game. And Argonian mistresses.