Forward Camp Respawn Timer Too Short

Zheg · June 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:
Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.

Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.

Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).

Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

I would gladly launch you with a catapult. Sorc meatbag - debuff your enemies with a flying troll.

HoloYoitsu · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:
Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.

Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.

Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).

Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

I would gladly launch you with a catapult. Sorc meatbag - debuff your enemies with a flying troll.

I'll put on my Fasallas. We'll just need to wait for me to get CC'd first so I can get the moving Negate.

Zheg · June 2016

umagon wrote: »

While I don't like the camps the core problem is there is no other penalty for death other than time to run back. Which is shortened with mounts and rapids. Mostly likely do to the criteria for winning is just earning points. Death has to have a real impact more than just run back time; if you really want to get into players using better tactics. Which would include player collision; and fall count. What is really needed is a new pvp venue where death's penalty isn't just a run back. And a venue where organized groups can vs other organized groups with things like fall count; smashing solos and random pick up groups does not show case a organized group's skill.

Solo and small group pvp will work in an arena, but when you say 'organized group' I wonder if you realize how few actually remain. There was once a vibrant community of rival pvp guilds, now there are a handful that you fight all night every night. Yes, groups do indeed prefer to fight each other, it presents the biggest challenge. With so few available though, you can fight eachother with sometimes grossly disproportionate numbers, fight for the 15th time so far that night, or you can opt for the last remaining challenge - fighting outnumbered against pugs and pickup groups and small remnants of veteran players.

I agree on the issues caused by a lack of consequences for dying. Some of us have been harping on that for over a year.

PosternHouse · June 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:
Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.

Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.

Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).

Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

I want to see the epitome of Torbjorn game play or I'm not interested.

Personally, I prefer turret-of-the-game-while-staring-at-widowmaker's-arse.

Roechacca · June 2016

I propose we put a timer on everyone's bad ideas.

Those toddler tents cost 20K AP. If they're not going to work on respawning bads for my enjoyment, reduce the price in half.

Ghost-Shot · June 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:
Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.

Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.

Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).

Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

I want to see the epitome of Torbjorn game play or I'm not interested.

Personally, I prefer turret-of-the-game-while-staring-at-widowmaker's-arse.

I knew there was a reason Steve likes playing him!

Paraflex · June 2016

I think you should increase the timer after the first rez by 2 mintues for each consecutive death around the tent. I don't mind when people pop a tent and get a rez instatly but I have had some fights that go on for ever because people just keep using the tent so frequently.

When you wipe a few groups 4-5 times per person and see them come right back into the fight it gets a little frustrating! This will limit the use of tents and insta spawn back into the action which is what keeps do.

rfennell_ESO · June 2016

Increasing the timer would help.

I'd rather see them more limited in where they can be placed, like only in locations that are considered the keep or the keep's resources.

As it is now you just have groups running around throwing down FC after FC... it gets old quick.

Zheg · June 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Increasing the timer would help.

I'd rather see them more limited in where they can be placed, like only in locations that are considered the keep or the keep's resources.

As it is now you just have groups running around throwing down FC after FC... it gets old quick.

Do you know how many FCs pact militia can go through at any given keep fight? It's not the location that's the problem, it's the capacity to more or less spam them.

KenaPKK · June 2016

What if we just increased the cost and left their functionality alone? Throwing ideas out there. If you hit the AP price, pugs will stop dropping them, and groups will become more hesitant to do so.

Ghost-Shot · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if we just increased the cost and left their functionality alone? Throwing ideas out there. If you hit the AP price, pugs will stop dropping them, and groups will become more hesitant to do so.

They already more than tripled the cost when they brought them back so I don't think that's really the route to go. I really think a very long cool down on use is the way to go.

Paraflex · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if we just increased the cost and left their functionality alone? Throwing ideas out there. If you hit the AP price, pugs will stop dropping them, and groups will become more hesitant to do so.

This would help the situation if they costed 100k per tent or something crazy. This doesn't help the insta re spawn situation though.

Zheg · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if we just increased the cost and left their functionality alone? Throwing ideas out there. If you hit the AP price, pugs will stop dropping them, and groups will become more hesitant to do so.

Very few people are hurting for AP though; if I'm sitting on maybe 20 million AP, the cost would have to skyrocket for me to even blink at it. It would also shift the dynamic to groups using camps and less organized and solo players not, which maybe we could make a niche argument for how that would benefit small groups, but as a whole I think it would backfire.

I'm certainly open to alternatives to the re-spawn timer being addressed, so long as the problem of constantly running back into the fight after you were just killed over and over is stopped.

umagon · June 2016

Player looting would be too extreme for most who play this game. But if every death in a 10min time frame after the first death; costed 3-5% of a player's accumulated ap and removed x amount of ap off of the leader boards it may slow down some of that type play. Even those with millions of ap would be affected.

Hibbou · June 2016

Damn, yesterday, I literally spent my whole evening burning them. (and BTW, they didn't even try to attack the keep, they were just here to "defend the bridge") 8k AP in 3 hours :'(
make them extremly expensive, to be used with caution, or put a cooldown on the keep it has been placed, like 15 minutes after it has been destroyed. The 2 min res penality is ridiculous.
BTW isn't it supposed to disapear after 20 res?

I never call for nerfs, I usually make fun of whiners, but something seriously needs to be done

frozywozy · June 2016

- Increase the spawn timer to 5 minutes;
- Add a resurrection sickness to anybody who use a camp or get resurrected by a player;
- Increase the range to what it used to be before.
- Make camps only usable outside of the range of any objective (Keep, Ressource, Outpost, Scroll Temple) no matter if you control the objective or not.

This would favor people who attack deep in enemy territory and would help people spreading out while penalizing people who simply defend all the time and never do an effort to push the map.

This would greatly help countering ressource tower AP farming ballgroups.

Pomaikai · June 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Increasing the timer would help.

I'd rather see them more limited in where they can be placed, like only in locations that are considered the keep or the keep's resources.

As it is now you just have groups running around throwing down FC after FC... it gets old quick.

You mean like the small gank grouos, who may or may not be CE buffed..., daisy chaining a line of FC's that they fall back to should the first FC be found and burnt? As soon as they can push forward again they just redrop the torched tents again.

JDar · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

I call my groups prox dets too, but I detest the skill. I have people run fasallas and VD, but I loathe the sets and what they do to pvp.

ZOS please bring back the LOL button

Is VE telling me they care about what they do to PVP?

Zheg · June 2016

JDar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

I call my groups prox dets too, but I detest the skill. I have people run fasallas and VD, but I loathe the sets and what they do to pvp.

ZOS please bring back the LOL button

Is VE telling me they care about what they do to PVP?

A guild that re-rolled from red because of an imbalanced population and maps and then made significant efforts to stop blue progression when it pushed too far and threatened to turn into gate farms? Sounds like a guild that cares about pvp.

If you find yourself unable to participate in any threads at all without poisoning them with your desperate need for salt, maybe the problem is with you. Even Kena and I are being civil, and there's no love lost there; the topic at hand is pretty universally recognized as having issues, though people will disagree on which ones and the extent of each. If you need to revert to your VE salt you can do so in your usual hate tells. My favorite of yours thus far is telling me I was zerging and destroying pvp when my group of 5 pushed a defended keep because everyone else was clustering at a single fight. With Sarenvog gone, you have mighty big shoes to fill my friend, you're going to need to up the ante.

HoloYoitsu · June 2016

JDar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

I call my groups prox dets too, but I detest the skill. I have people run fasallas and VD, but I loathe the sets and what they do to pvp.

ZOS please bring back the LOL button

Is VE telling me they care about what they do to PVP?

We rerolled our entire guild twice to try and help pop balance. How many other guilds have done that?

If you desire salt, I am happy to oblige, just hit me up in Overwatch.

Satiar · June 2016

JDar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

I call my groups prox dets too, but I detest the skill. I have people run fasallas and VD, but I loathe the sets and what they do to pvp.

ZOS please bring back the LOL button

Is VE telling me they care about what they do to PVP?

And here I thought you and I had come to an understanding.

Anyways. Kags, camps, whatever. It all devalues death. I abuse it too. "2 people down? Just put a camp over there, get em up." The old ganker in me dies a bit when I do that, I remember Kirin, Teargrants, Bulb and I holding supply lines between nickel and ash, or Sej and BRK. It's a cheap mechanic that's simply too good to not use.

manny254 · June 2016

Personally I think camps should not be allowed in a keep's radius. This would make resources more important during a keep battle, and give smaller groups a more defined role in a larger battle. This would help with endless battles, and spread players out. There would still be population/numbers imbalanced, but I think it could help.

Zheg · June 2016

manny254 wrote: »

Personally I think camps should not be allowed in a keep's radius. This would make resources more important during a keep battle, and give smaller groups a more defined role in a larger battle. This would help with endless battles, and spread players out. There would still be population/numbers imbalanced, but I think it could help.

Resources are where most camps are spammed though because they're in a safer location but still in range of people that die at the keep. I was chasing a red raid last night after wiping them on a resource, two peeled off when the fight wasn't going well and even though everyone was chasing them they got a camp down in the middle of a field and boom, whole raid up. We've all done it, but the mechanic is absolutely moronic and makes no sense. We had significantly less than our opponents, get a bomb off while they tried to take the flag and they lost. There is no second stealth bomb after that point, they're in an open field and know you're there. Dumb mechanic is dumb. Try to sprint to keep up with the guy running that you know is going to put down a camp? You'll be at low stam when the entire raid is instantly back up with full stats.

That's one of the things that burns my biscuits - it's actually better to rez at a camp than to be manually rezzed because you get all of your stats back to full. Wut? Why do templars have a wasted class passive on better stats upon rez and why are there CP passives that enhance magicka regen for rezzes if camps are that much better? It makes my head hurt.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · June 2016

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

Ghost-Shot · June 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

Next incremental patch right? Like the one next week?

Zheg · June 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

Thank you. Please get players involved 'before' you come to a final number, many of us will probably sigh dejectedly if we look forward to it and find out it's something like 2.5 minutes and we have to wait at least 3 more months before it gets corrected.

What went right, what went wrong in your opinion with the camp re-introduction? Is it better or worse than when we didn't have camps at all? We've come to our own conclusions, but we are genuinely interested in knowing what your thoughts are.

BllyDnsr · June 2016

I agree that the respawn timers need to be adjusted. I also think that there should be a zone timer for the placement of FCs so if one in that zone gets used up/burnt, then that faction can't place another down for xx amount of seconds.

Digiman · June 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please do not let the vocal minority influence the majority when it comes to PvP changes. The camps are expensive and can be destroyed with a small group quite easily.

The whole point of the timer is to make them more of a priority threat to deal with when discovered.

Zheg · June 2016

Digiman wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please do not let the vocal minority influence the majority when it comes to PvP changes. The camps are expensive and can be destroyed with a small group quite easily.

The whole point of the timer is to make them more of a priority threat to deal with when discovered.

Camps are far from expensive, and the fact that they can 'be destroyed by a small group' means jack when an entire raid just instantly revived with full stats in one spot.

I'd also point out that the people agreeing to these changes represent people from pretty much every playstyle in pvp, it's hardly one specific type of player talking in this thread. If you die enough that you need to take camps frequently, you're likely making pushes that you should not be and should be penalized for. I'm sorry, but I feel pretty strongly that if you die enough times that you need to keep that 2 minute timer on cooldown and would be greatly impacted by it being increased, your capacity and experience regarding pvp is questionable, and that would be a vocal minority I'd caution against listening to. Seriously, if you cannot function without being able to rez at a camp for greater than a 2 minute duration, you are doing something very wrong.

KenaPKK · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Forward camp respawn timers are under discussion for the next patch.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please do not let the vocal minority influence the majority when it comes to PvP changes. The camps are expensive and can be destroyed with a small group quite easily.

The whole point of the timer is to make them more of a priority threat to deal with when discovered.

Camps are far from expensive, and the fact that they can 'be destroyed by a small group' means jack when an entire raid just instantly revived with full stats in one spot.

I'd also point out that the people agreeing to these changes represent people from pretty much every playstyle in pvp, it's hardly one specific type of player talking in this thread. If you die enough that you need to take camps frequently, you're likely making pushes that you should not be and should be penalized for. I'm sorry, but I feel pretty strongly that if you die enough times that you need to keep that 2 minute timer on cooldown and would be greatly impacted by it being increased, your capacity and experience regarding pvp is questionable, and that would be a vocal minority I'd caution against listening to. Seriously, if you cannot function without being able to rez at a camp for greater than a 2 minute duration, you are doing something very wrong.

That's probably not a minority, Zheg, but it's also not a group around which the game should be balanced in order to remain competitive.

ZOS, for the sake of keeping PvP fun and challenging, please take the points raised in this thread to heart.