Forward Camp Respawn Timer Too Short

Zheg

We've had forward camps back in the game for almost 5 months now? Many (myself included, loudly) argued and continue to argue against their return, but whatever, we're used to poor decisions being made for pvp. @ZOS_BrianWheeler meet us half-way. If you aren't going to agree that camps ended up having more negative than positive effects on Cyrodiil, then at least adjust the timers on them. Even for the people that defend FCs, throughout the many threads and posts on the topic over the past few months, most seem agreeable to the re-spawn timer being increased. 2 minutes is hardly anything and the end result is that people more or less spam camps during fights. If their purpose is to further dumb down the meaning of death in the game and allow people that played poorly to instantly rez up with full stats, can we at least be responsible and not allow them to do this ad infinitum? FCs will still serve their purpose with a respawn timer of 5 or 10 minutes, but it will make poor tactical decisions and better skill actually matter. We played successfully without FCs for over a year, we did just fine with having to manually rez people and/or re-spawn at keeps/gate. A longer re-spawn timer will still allow the FCs to serve whatever misguided purpose you think they have, but it will help dampen the glaring negative effects they have on pvp.

Increase the rez timer for FCs to at least 5 minutes, longer if you're brave enough. It's irresponsible to leave it in game as is - we've had months to see how it plays out, even if you don't agree that FCs are bad, surely you can agree that their mechanics do indeed have negative impacts and should be addressed. This should be an exceptionally easy fix to include in an incremental patch. I'd like to see far stronger nerfs to FCs if not their complete removal, but again, meet us halfway and at least address the re-spawn timer.

Crispen_Longbow

Must Not Destroy Crispen's Second favorite Past time!!!



Even though I love burning camps, I agree they need a longer timer or need to be removed.

Sandman929

Remove them. It's a ridiculous idea. If you fail to take a keep, you face the long ride of shame.

umagon

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

Zheg

umagon wrote: »

But every night you plop up a tent at or around ash mile gate.

I call my groups prox dets too, but I detest the skill. I have people run fasallas and VD, but I loathe the sets and what they do to pvp.

If we're being honest, most of the rezzes we get manually (I know because I constantly ask for soul gems from guildies). A camp is usually dropped for a single player or two that died in a poor position. I'll use them because my enemies use them (far more frequently I'll add) and I'm not an idiot. It doesn't mean rational people can't objectively see the negative impacts camps have, or push to get their mechanics improved.

KenaPKK

Agreed. Camps only serve to encourage mindless zerg rushing and make the game more forgiving of tactical mistakes.

Thelon

Great points, but just remember that those opposed have a solid counter-argument:

zyk

KenaPKK wrote: »

Agreed. Camps only serve to encourage mindless zerg rushing and make the game more forgiving of tactical mistakes.

Even groups of good players play recklessly because they can endlessly drop camps. The gameplay is hideous.

But the biggest reason respawns need to be mitigated is that FCs as currently implemented extend and promote the large fights that cause the server to struggle. The longer a keep is flagged, the more players it seems to attract. Any ring keep has the potential for depose-like lag during tick quagmires.

In addition to a respawn timer, I think camps should have a timer before they become active after deployment so an entire group can't repsawn to immediately fight resource depleted opponents. There should be a greater opportunity to destroy the camp before it can be used.

FENGRUSH

Agree with this - changes are needed to forward camps in a big way. I prefer smaller groups and group only camps but since this game is zerg friendly this is the optimal solution.

umagon

While I don't like the camps the core problem is there is no other penalty for death other than time to run back. Which is shortened with mounts and rapids. Mostly likely do to the criteria for winning is just earning points. Death has to have a real impact more than just run back time; if you really want to get into players using better tactics. Which would include player collision; and fall count. What is really needed is a new pvp venue where death's penalty isn't just a run back. And a venue where organized groups can vs other organized groups with things like fall count; smashing solos and random pick up groups does not show case a organized group's skill.

Armitas

I hate these things. They favor the zerg, and the zergs uses them to continue to throw bodies into the fight so fast that you cant take a keep even though you have wipped them 10x over. It turns a keep fight into an episode of the walking dead.

Sandman929

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agree with this - changes are needed to forward camps in a big way. I prefer smaller groups and group only camps but since this game is zerg friendly this is the optimal solution.

Group Only camps is a solution I could stomach, but defenders would be fighting for real estate inside keep walls. I'd really just rather see the camps gone. You attack with what you have and if you fail you lose momentum and likely face a stronger defense on the second try than on the first. And you defend with what you have, if you fail you lose the keep.
There was nothing wrong with this before the return of forward camps.

RinaldoGandolphi

Yup,

Forward Camps as they are now is a big contributor to campaign wide lag everyone hates, the Last Emp keep is just atrocious and you can't get away from it.

I think one Rez with a 5 minute cooldown or even a 7 minute cooldown would be fair...allowing folks to literlaly just respawn over and over and over is just too much.

Satiar

I have the same problem with camps as I did with Kags: low death penalty, always favors the group with more numbers.

Minnesinger

They are certainly one of the most annoying features in pvp.


1. Get rid of them altogether ( I rather ride than waste time killing the same opponents again and again)

2. Or make them usable only in a smaller radius with a longer timer.

3. Or make them unusable both the attacking and defencive force close to the keeps

I still say get rid of them.

Ghost-Shot

If they have to stay in the game they should be on a 20 minute cool down and you res with a 5 minute res sickness debuff like -50% to all stats. The whole reason you see so many glassy builds running around is because death literally means nothing, if a death was going to have a serious impact on your game play or force someone from your group to be in the line of fire to get you up, you might start to give a ***.

TequilaFire

But FC is our small group tool against the gigantic DC zergs on PS4 Scourge. lol

KenaPKK

What if they implemented a 10 minute (or whatever) period after a camp expires before a new one can be placed within its zone? Camp spam would be stopped, but they'd still be usable. It would give people more reason to defend and repair camps too. Strategy or annoyance?

Ghost-Shot

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if they implemented a 10 minute (or whatever) period after a camp expires before a new one can be placed within its zone? Camp spam would be stopped, but they'd still be usable. It would give people more reason to defend and repair camps too. Strategy or annoyance?

The problem is there aren't set areas for camps, so would it be like a camp was in the keep radius so now you cant put one in the same keep radius?

KenaPKK

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if they implemented a 10 minute (or whatever) period after a camp expires before a new one can be placed within its zone? Camp spam would be stopped, but they'd still be usable. It would give people more reason to defend and repair camps too. Strategy or annoyance?

The problem is there aren't set areas for camps, so would it be like a camp was in the keep radius so now you cant put one in the same keep radius?

In the first camp's radius, yes. That's what I said.

Zheg

KenaPKK wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if they implemented a 10 minute (or whatever) period after a camp expires before a new one can be placed within its zone? Camp spam would be stopped, but they'd still be usable. It would give people more reason to defend and repair camps too. Strategy or annoyance?

The problem is there aren't set areas for camps, so would it be like a camp was in the keep radius so now you cant put one in the same keep radius?

In the first camp's radius, yes. That's what I said.

I'd be concerned about trolls and potato placement.

I think the better course would be to tie the penalty to the player and not the camp. If you're dying multiple times in a short duration, you're penalized and have a harder time returning to the fight than someone that died only once.

I do also think it's BANANAS that you rez with full stats. I'm not even talking about a debuff like pulsar's reduced hp, I'm just talking about how you can instantly revive and have more stats than if a Templar rezzed you manually, and your opponents are still alive fighting with depleted stats even though they were victorious. It makes no sense.

Crispen_Longbow

What zombies should be like after they rez.



Instead we get this.

HoloYoitsu

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Zheg

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

HoloYoitsu

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Ghost-Shot

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

HoloYoitsu

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

KenaPKK

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

What if they implemented a 10 minute (or whatever) period after a camp expires before a new one can be placed within its zone? Camp spam would be stopped, but they'd still be usable. It would give people more reason to defend and repair camps too. Strategy or annoyance?

The problem is there aren't set areas for camps, so would it be like a camp was in the keep radius so now you cant put one in the same keep radius?

In the first camp's radius, yes. That's what I said.

I'd be concerned about trolls and potato placement.

I think the better course would be to tie the penalty to the player and not the camp. If you're dying multiple times in a short duration, you're penalized and have a harder time returning to the fight than someone that died only once.

I do also think it's BANANAS that you rez with full stats. I'm not even talking about a debuff like pulsar's reduced hp, I'm just talking about how you can instantly revive and have more stats than if a Templar rezzed you manually, and your opponents are still alive fighting with depleted stats even though they were victorious. It makes no sense.

Very true. Potatoes gonna potate. Summoning sickness or scaling res timer that increases with repeated resses it is.

Ghost-Shot

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

I want to see the epitome of Torbjorn game play or I'm not interested.

HoloYoitsu

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

I want to see the epitome of Torbjorn game play or I'm not interested.

Once I place my turret, I'm just going to walk back to our spawn and practice some poses, maybe take a bio. You guys tell me when to press 'Q'.

This may take a while.

Ghost-Shot

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

You guys ask too much of ZOS, let's be honest here. ZOS couldn't even delete FCs from the game, all they could do was turn them off in merchant tables and make them bound.

Then it took a year to:

• Add a 'check if player is in (x) radius of camp' call.
• Add a 'check if player has used a camp in (x) ticks' call.
• Change the radius of camps from (x) to (y).
• Change the AP cost of camps in the merchant tables.

That's literally the only things that have been changed in the code, in a year of time that Wheeler was "redesigning" FCs. Zheg-scrub, just increasing the rez timer would probably take months alone. Imagine how long it would take ZOS to code in the ability for camps to give players debuffs, and then code in the debuff.

Btw, still waiting on that Mercenary redesign...

Listen sorc, it did take them about a year, but we've had then back for about 6 months now, so if we tell them it's a problem and make a stink about it we'll be full circle and have them addressed in about that same year long timeframe.

Btw, do you think you could synchronize me standing inside a catapult and crit rushing over the walls the same instant you fire the catapult, so it looks like you're launching me into the air?

I need it for my immurshuns.

Log into eso tonight, we will practice. You already have your Bastion of the Game video so you should have time for it.

But I need to practice for my Hammering-the-Wall-of-the-Game compilation...

I want to see the epitome of Torbjorn game play or I'm not interested.

Once I place my turret, I'm just going to walk back to our spawn and practice some poses, maybe take a bio. You guys tell me when to press 'Q'.

This may take a while.

If I don't see well played on the wall it doesnt count.