Thank You ZOS for One Tamriel! Now, about those classes ...

Ser Lobo · June 2016

Can we get rid of classes yet?

I acknowledge that earlier ES games had a class-based system. I also know that later games evolved into a 'free choice' system that hepled reinforce the open-world feelings that Elder Scrolls holds to in general. I recognize that ESO attempted to merge the single-player free-choice system Skyrim was so popular for, with a more traditional 'level and class' based system that MMO's are known for. I am well aware that ESO has gone above almost every other MMO I've played, where choice is concerned, by letting us mix armor and weapons to our hearts content.

So that's the world as it currently stands.

I believe the current class system is poorly implemented. It's terribly unbalanced, in PvE content (solo sorcs) or PvP (nightblade ambushers). And that ZOS has attempted to create balance time and again by adjusting weapons, armor, abilities, class skills, stamina or magicka regen pools, and even champion points.

If you ask me, they've done a helluva job in the attempt, but they can *never* and will never achieve that balance players need.

For other MMO's, it's easier. Your class defines everything. Your armor, your weapons, your abilities. There's no crossover, as each class is treated like an entirely separate and self contained animal.

But the quest for freedom makes it impossible for ZOS. As they buff and nerf, new combinations and attributes arise which cause the meta to shift. This isn't abnormal or bad, per se, but with the restriction of classes, it means someone else is always getting screwed.

The answer? Open all skill lines to all players, allowing them all the freedom to mix and match as they see fit. Begin balancing the ability combinations between class skills that are more powerful than normal, but no longer restricting players to being inferior to the flavor of the month (as all will have access to the same options).

An open world, free roam, and complete control over how you build and spec your character?

Safe to say I've been waiting three decades for that.

Tandor · June 2016

Leave the classes alone please!

Gidorick · June 2016

No need to remove classes.... Alliance choice... now that's something to talk about.

JD2013 · June 2016

All ES games up to Oblivion had classes of sorts.

To just give all skills to anyone would be mayhem.

Enough system changes for now, ZOS.

Khaos_Bane · June 2016

Being able to choose skills from any class tree would be awesome. Imagine the build possibilities.

Khaos_Bane · June 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

No need to remove classes.... Alliance choice... now that's something to talk about.

<yawn>

blabafat · June 2016

Remove all classes so everyone is running the same Mets setup. This is definitely not the option. Classes create diversity in this game

Shuichi · June 2016

So every player in the game will run Shadow/Restoring Light/Earthen Heart? No thanks

Khaos_Bane · June 2016

Isn't nearly every player now running STA DK and STA NB ?

Khaos_Bane · June 2016

Shuichi wrote: »

So every player in the game will run Shadow/Restoring Light/Earthen Heart? No thanks

They would? Not me.

Orgrimar · June 2016

Add more classes would be better. Only 4 is limiting we need more variety would make the game more dynamic

Solid_Metal · June 2016

nope, i strongly disagree
add more classes?, yes please

altemriel · June 2016

Ser Lobo wrote: »

Can we get rid of classes yet?

I acknowledge that earlier ES games had a class-based system. I also know that later games evolved into a 'free choice' system that hepled reinforce the open-world feelings that Elder Scrolls holds to in general. I recognize that ESO attempted to merge the single-player free-choice system Skyrim was so popular for, with a more traditional 'level and class' based system that MMO's are known for. I am well aware that ESO has gone above almost every other MMO I've played, where choice is concerned, by letting us mix armor and weapons to our hearts content.

So that's the world as it currently stands.

I believe the current class system is poorly implemented. It's terribly unbalanced, in PvE content (solo sorcs) or PvP (nightblade ambushers). And that ZOS has attempted to create balance time and again by adjusting weapons, armor, abilities, class skills, stamina or magicka regen pools, and even champion points.

If you ask me, they've done a helluva job in the attempt, but they can *never* and will never achieve that balance players need.

For other MMO's, it's easier. Your class defines everything. Your armor, your weapons, your abilities. There's no crossover, as each class is treated like an entirely separate and self contained animal.

But the quest for freedom makes it impossible for ZOS. As they buff and nerf, new combinations and attributes arise which cause the meta to shift. This isn't abnormal or bad, per se, but with the restriction of classes, it means someone else is always getting screwed.

The answer? Open all skill lines to all players, allowing them all the freedom to mix and match as they see fit. Begin balancing the ability combinations between class skills that are more powerful than normal, but no longer restricting players to being inferior to the flavor of the month (as all will have access to the same options).

An open world, free roam, and complete control over how you build and spec your character?

Safe to say I've been waiting three decades for that.

SIMPLY SAID: NO!!

AlnilamE · June 2016

Please don't.

C0pp3rhead · June 2016

They'll effectively deal with the class imbalance when they introduce spellcrafting (never?).

Bfish22090 · June 2016

Ser Lobo wrote: »

Can we get rid of classes yet?

I acknowledge that earlier ES games had a class-based system. I also know that later games evolved into a 'free choice' system that hepled reinforce the open-world feelings that Elder Scrolls holds to in general. I recognize that ESO attempted to merge the single-player free-choice system Skyrim was so popular for, with a more traditional 'level and class' based system that MMO's are known for. I am well aware that ESO has gone above almost every other MMO I've played, where choice is concerned, by letting us mix armor and weapons to our hearts content.

So that's the world as it currently stands.

I believe the current class system is poorly implemented. It's terribly unbalanced, in PvE content (solo sorcs) or PvP (nightblade ambushers). And that ZOS has attempted to create balance time and again by adjusting weapons, armor, abilities, class skills, stamina or magicka regen pools, and even champion points.

If you ask me, they've done a helluva job in the attempt, but they can *never* and will never achieve that balance players need.

For other MMO's, it's easier. Your class defines everything. Your armor, your weapons, your abilities. There's no crossover, as each class is treated like an entirely separate and self contained animal.

But the quest for freedom makes it impossible for ZOS. As they buff and nerf, new combinations and attributes arise which cause the meta to shift. This isn't abnormal or bad, per se, but with the restriction of classes, it means someone else is always getting screwed.

The answer? Open all skill lines to all players, allowing them all the freedom to mix and match as they see fit. Begin balancing the ability combinations between class skills that are more powerful than normal, but no longer restricting players to being inferior to the flavor of the month (as all will have access to the same options).

An open world, free roam, and complete control over how you build and spec your character?

Safe to say I've been waiting three decades for that.

you are so wrong if you think magicka sorc is the best in pve and stam nb is the best in pvp

Ser Lobo · June 2016

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Ser Lobo wrote: »

Can we get rid of classes yet?

I acknowledge that earlier ES games had a class-based system. I also know that later games evolved into a 'free choice' system that hepled reinforce the open-world feelings that Elder Scrolls holds to in general. I recognize that ESO attempted to merge the single-player free-choice system Skyrim was so popular for, with a more traditional 'level and class' based system that MMO's are known for. I am well aware that ESO has gone above almost every other MMO I've played, where choice is concerned, by letting us mix armor and weapons to our hearts content.

So that's the world as it currently stands.

I believe the current class system is poorly implemented. It's terribly unbalanced, in PvE content (solo sorcs) or PvP (nightblade ambushers). And that ZOS has attempted to create balance time and again by adjusting weapons, armor, abilities, class skills, stamina or magicka regen pools, and even champion points.

If you ask me, they've done a helluva job in the attempt, but they can *never* and will never achieve that balance players need.

For other MMO's, it's easier. Your class defines everything. Your armor, your weapons, your abilities. There's no crossover, as each class is treated like an entirely separate and self contained animal.

But the quest for freedom makes it impossible for ZOS. As they buff and nerf, new combinations and attributes arise which cause the meta to shift. This isn't abnormal or bad, per se, but with the restriction of classes, it means someone else is always getting screwed.

The answer? Open all skill lines to all players, allowing them all the freedom to mix and match as they see fit. Begin balancing the ability combinations between class skills that are more powerful than normal, but no longer restricting players to being inferior to the flavor of the month (as all will have access to the same options).

An open world, free roam, and complete control over how you build and spec your character?

Safe to say I've been waiting three decades for that.

you are so wrong if you think magicka sorc is the best in pve and stam nb is the best in pvp

Best? Not at the moment, maybe. But as we all know, best is also a matter of perception and not necessarily related to much more than what the 'general consensus' holds to.

For me, Nightblade is the best hands down. But that's because I don't enjoy playing any of the other classes. Not much more behind that.

But if you listen to these here forums, you'll definitely here complaints about how broken sorcerers are (were?) solo'ing VMA, or how op nightblades are ambushing in Cyrodiil.

Of course, luckily the developers seem to realize the forum community may not be the most unbiased or free-thinking community. That's nothing against us forum warriors in ESO, it's just the rule across the board. I'm hoping ZOS has the numbers to show that removing the artificial restrictions of classes would free up players to enjoy more of the gameflow.

MasterSpatula · June 2016

Yeah! Your level means nothing because of scaling. Your Alliance means nothing because you can go anywhere at any level. Your race means nothing, because race change whenever you feel like it.

Why not remove classes?

Hell, while we're at it, let's remove our characters' faces, and just have one cookie-cutter face. Oh, and names. Why should one character have one name when another character has to have a totally different name! How restricting is that?!?!

Ser Lobo · June 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Yeah! Your level means nothing because of scaling. Your Alliance means nothing because you can go anywhere at any level. Your race means nothing, because race change whenever you feel like it.

Why not remove classes?

Hell, while we're at it, let's remove our characters' faces, and just have one cookie-cutter face. Oh, and names. Why should one character have one name when another character has to have a totally different name! How restricting is that?!?!

You meant that sarcastically, I know, but multiple characters sharing the same name (similar to what Neverwinter has with the @username system) is actually a good system in my opinion. And of course, characters can have the same face.

I guess I feel that Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (specifically) didn't limit what magic or melee abilities you could use, no matter if you chose a 'class' that simply allowed you to level certain abilities faster. If they had that system, where your class determined ONLY if you could level some abilities more quickly than others, but everyone could use all abilities? No problem.

Will players focus on the meta? For sure. I doubt it would be much different for the 'ultra high end professional nolife' gamer types than is currently represented.

For the rest of us? Oh, my. I'd do exactly what I did in Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind. Play entirely my own way.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Being able to choose skills from any class tree would be awesome. Imagine the build possibilities.

Yeah they would amount to 3 tops that everyone runs.

Wollust · June 2016

No thanks, stop trying to turn this game more into Skyrim Online.

Ser Lobo · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

No thanks, stop trying to turn this game more into Skyrim Online.

I kinda thought it was 'Elder Scrolls Online', though.

The classes of the later elder scrolls games never controlled what abilities or spells you could use. Only how fast you leveled them.

This current system feels more like they are trying to turn Elder Scrolls into World of Tamriel.

Not saying I haven't enjoyed the last two years. Just that I feel it could bet better.

JD2013 · June 2016

Ser Lobo wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

No thanks, stop trying to turn this game more into Skyrim Online.

I kinda thought it was 'Elder Scrolls Online', though.

The classes of the later elder scrolls games never controlled what abilities or spells you could use. Only how fast you leveled them.

This current system feels more like they are trying to turn Elder Scrolls into World of Tamriel.

Not saying I haven't enjoyed the last two years. Just that I feel it could bet better.

You are quite correct. It is an MMORPG set in the world of Elder Scrolls. Not an iteration of previous games.

MasterSpatula · June 2016

Ser Lobo wrote: »

I guess I feel that Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (specifically) didn't limit what magic or melee abilities you could use, no matter if you chose a 'class' that simply allowed you to level certain abilities faster.

And there were many of us that hated this about Skyrim. There's been a steady progression away from having any limitations or weaknesses since Daggerfall, but our weaknesses and limitations define us as well as our strengths do.

Ser Lobo · June 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Ser Lobo wrote: »

I guess I feel that Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (specifically) didn't limit what magic or melee abilities you could use, no matter if you chose a 'class' that simply allowed you to level certain abilities faster.

And there were many of us that hated this about Skyrim. There's been a steady progression away from having any limitations or weaknesses since Daggerfall, but our weaknesses and limitations define us as well as our strengths do.

Obviously, there are the natural limitations of which abilities you have on your bar, but that's apparently not part of this discussion.

I've always preferred games like Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE), EvE Online, Elder Scrolls, and the many tabletop platforms that avoid the traditional DnD class system. Elder Scrolls Online is right there on that cusp, and is solid in it's own right.

Some of us feel it would be a better game if if dropped it's current half-hearted attempt at classes. Others of us feel ti would be a better game if it restricted players into weapon systems, armor systems, and more closely followed the trinity mechanics of later DnD.

To each his own. I'll keep wishing.

BlackguardBob · June 2016

No, its fine as it is. There are more than enough changes to this game so far and more to come. ESO will begin to lose its identity if it alters too far from its original concept.

Atarax · June 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

All ES games up to Oblivion had classes of sorts.

To just give all skills to anyone would be mayhem.

Enough system changes for now, ZOS.

1. All Elder Scrolls characters from Morrowind onward could eventually learn all skills and abilities, and max all stats, classes only determined how fast you learned a given skill.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Being able to choose skills from any class tree would be awesome. Imagine the build possibilities.

Yeah they would amount to 3 tops that everyone runs.

2. This is not how it plays out in MMOs (ex. UO, AC, TSW, Shroud of the Avatar, etc.) where players can learn any ability they want; you see more build diversity, not less. It works better, and balance is better.

JD2013 wrote: »

Ser Lobo wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

No thanks, stop trying to turn this game more into Skyrim Online.

I kinda thought it was 'Elder Scrolls Online', though.

The classes of the later elder scrolls games never controlled what abilities or spells you could use. Only how fast you leveled them.

This current system feels more like they are trying to turn Elder Scrolls into World of Tamriel.

Not saying I haven't enjoyed the last two years. Just that I feel it could bet better.

You are quite correct. It is an MMORPG set in the world of Elder Scrolls. Not an iteration of previous games.

MMO does not = MUST HAVE CLASSES, there are several MMOs that do not have classes that work great. If there was ever a world that should not lock off abilities and skills behind a class gate, it would be Nirn.

I would prefer to see one of two things happen:

A. Make class skill lines simply be skill lines that all players get access to somehow (then the devs can add additional skill lines as they see fit and players can balance themselves).

Or

B. Remove classes

Either one works. I'm tired of devs wasting time trying to balance classes instead of adding new skill lines and spellcrafting.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

As unpopular as classes may be to ES players (at least skyrim players who didnt realize that morrowind and oblivion did, in fact, have classes), I like the class system - it creates roles and specializations for players, and also gives everyone a unique feel from the other classes.

That said, I do want MORE classes added. I think that 4 is abysmal for a game of this size, especially when most other MMO's on the market are boasting 10+ classes to choose from, or the ability to make your own.

I really wish they'd put the Warden from alpha back in. The warden was supposed to be a druid/shaman style class with a lot of nature-focused magic like control over plants/animals, healing and support abilities, etc. Unfortunately most of the warden's abilities were rehashed and put into the templar class instead.

This game needs a nature class.

Atarax · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As unpopular as classes may be to ES players (at least skyrim players who didnt realize that morrowind and oblivion did, in fact, have classes), I like the class system - it creates roles and specializations for players, and also gives everyone a unique feel from the other classes.

That said, I do want MORE classes added. I think that 4 is abysmal for a game of this size, especially when most other MMO's on the market are boasting 10+ classes to choose from, or the ability to make your own.

I really wish they'd put the Warden from alpha back in. The warden was supposed to be a druid/shaman style class with a lot of nature-focused magic like control over plants/animals, healing and support abilities, etc. Unfortunately most of the warden's abilities were rehashed and put into the templar class instead.

This game needs a nature class.

See my post just before yours, classes from Morrowind onwards did not restrict you from learning anything. Any character could learn everything.

You can still have a unique character build regardless of if everyone could learn everything or there were no classes. You'd see more build variety, not less. This is how it plays out in MMOs that don't restrict players from learning whatever they want. Characters become more unique, not less, when you have more freedom of choice.

I'm all for them adding more skill lines, but not having more classes.

Solariken · June 2016

I agree with the OP about the need to dissolve the rigid classes we have now. They are indeed superficial, poorly implemented, and unbalanced, not to mention the fact that there are only four (ONLY FOUR!?) which doesn't really add much diversity. Furthermore, ESO does a terrible job building class identity. There doesn't seem to be any surrounding lore - you basically pick a class icon at character creation and then you are magically a "Nightblade" with no indication of how you became one or why you can't stop being one.

With that said, they could install a much more open and fluid class system in which many of the current class skills and passives are placed into Daedra worship skill trees which can be exclusive to each other in some cases. So for example, you pledge yourself to Arkay and you have access to the Draconic Power skill line, but maybe that means you are prohibited from using the Assassination line because it requires Sithis fealty. I'm just spit-balling here, but you get the idea. Hell, they could even bring in trees for the infamous TES schools of magic. These changes would finally make this game live up to the franchise.

It could be so cool to make Daedra worship core to the game and character systems!

@ZOS_RichLambert

Mojmir · June 2016

Class system is an outdated system,even worse when they're not done right or broken.