This is baloney

Cherryblossom · June 2016

I agree with the OPs Sentiment regarding the constant re-adjustments in this game.

it's bad enough that every update all the skills change, but we also have continual tinkering with items too.

Can anyone name a MMO where this happens continually? Anyone?

DaveMoeDee · June 2016

Vinther wrote: »

A bug? They were "adjusting/fixing" the item. Which should have been done during the PTS testing or prior to launch when it would have been a CAPABLE developer... It was reported many times on PTS and it was considered "OK" and "NORMAL" by ZOS obviously because it was not fixed...

So people thought OK, this is how it's meant to be. And weeks later... nerf?

This has zero logic and makes any future builds unreliable...

"Capable" developers let all sorts of bugs get released into the wild. Holding back software until it is perfect is a good way to go out of business.

Personally, I dislike all re-balancing, but if MMO players say that doing that is the norm for MMOs, I'll take their word on it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I agree with the OPs Sentiment regarding the constant re-adjustments in this game.

it's bad enough that every update all the skills change, but we also have continual tinkering with items too.

Can anyone name a MMO where this happens continually? Anyone?

Admittedly I don't play other MMOs but I've heard dozens of people say that this is very common in all of them, especially WOW.

Runkorko · June 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I agree with the OPs Sentiment regarding the constant re-adjustments in this game.

it's bad enough that every update all the skills change, but we also have continual tinkering with items too.

Can anyone name a MMO where this happens continually? Anyone?

Admittedly I don't play other MMOs but I've heard dozens of people say that this is very common in all of them, especially WOW.

I play wow since vanila and i cant agree wit this "this is very common" General changes are made with new expansions not during every patch. There are few smal fixes during patches but not big game breaking changes. There is a downside too (if your class/spec su.s at the sart of the expansion he will su.s the whole xp. But you will know it from the very begining and you will adapt ot pick diferent class til next expansion. I find it ... (better skip this word) to let something go life, let ppl spend tons of money and time to build on it and then 3 weeks after release to cut it deep ( what is all the PTS time for? to test riding animations? ) atleast he`s not game breaking.

Wollust · June 2016

Ye sucks. Just bought the only sharpened axe I could find after 3 hours two days ago and made it golden.

Well, I enjoyed it while it lasted.

Ritzey01 · June 2016

I am SO glad that people who make these kind of threads are so perfect and never miss anything or make any kinds of mistakes. Renews my faith in mankind.

Aztlan · June 2016

That's sarcastic, Ritzey01, and not the point. I think it's okay to be disappointed about this and to let ZOS know that they should have handled this better. It's a bug? Okay, let everyone know up front.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

That bow had been like that since the beta...it always had.

what are they going to do next? Nerf the tar out of the Wrath of the Imperuim Staffs...ya know they have 2 enchantment effects on them...guess we can't have that even though they have been that way since beta and was a selling point of the entire set.

This is why i don't really gold anything anymore, they will just jerk the rug out from under you without a moments notice, and that Covenent Bow wasn't even bugged, its been like that since beta!

Can't have anything worth spending AP on....

PurifedBladez · June 2016

It's soooo stupid there is no pvp alternative to maelstrom weapons. I've never completed vma but, I have played it for a couple hours and, gotten to round 6 on my stamblade. Problem is I don't enjoy it at all and, I start to miss pvp the second I enter the arena.

I feel capable that I could finish but, the motivation for that just isn't there. PVP players shouldn't be forced into pve content just to have BiS when you're pvping. That's literally just the dumbest thing ever.

SodanTok · June 2016

The bow was bad, then it got good and now its even worse. This was no bug fixing (or it was always bug since release). Where pre-DB it had no use because it was vr14. Now, buffed to vr16, it has no use because every other bow is exactly the same (and usually from much more useful set)

DDuke · June 2016

Can we get a comment on why you thought nerfing these weapons was necessary ZOS?

The way I see it, they added some build diversity other than the "use vMSA 2H/DW/Bow", though they were perhaps too easy to acquire for the amount of power they had.

Many people created builds focused around Torug's Pact & these weapons.

Patch notes state:

Item Sets
Fixed an issue where the default enchantments on Alliance War weapons had higher values than intended.

These enchants have always been special & higher value than other enchants. I personally used the Covenant's Bow back in the days before V16, solely for the double value enchant it had.

So I don't see how this is considered a "fix" to an "issue".

Here's from the youtube comments section of one of my ancient videos (https://youtu.be/90WpigekWo0) to prove that these special enchants have been there since the beta of this game:

-10 months ago
And what kind of bow and enchant in it? Vampire or ww?
Reply
Decimus
Decimus10 months ago
+-
Bow is Covenant's Bow (found from Rewards of the Worthy when doing PvP), which has an enchantment that is 2x stronger than normal enchantments (deals 1k unresistable damage).
Better than this would be Master's Bow (preferably with Sharpened trait), but I haven't been lucky enough to get one yet (drops from VDSA, or as campaign rewards for top 2% of leaderboard when campaign ends).

(note that the damage is from before all damage/stats etc got a 10x modifier)

Can we get an official response on why you nerfed these weapons, @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ? Many people I know (myself included) are really pissed off about this change.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Can we get a comment on why you thought nerfing these weapons was necessary ZOS?

The way I see it, they added some build diversity other than the "use vMSA 2H/DW/Bow", though they were perhaps too easy to acquire for the amount of power they had.

Many people created builds focused around Torug's Pact & these weapons.

Patch notes state:

Item Sets
Fixed an issue where the default enchantments on Alliance War weapons had higher values than intended.

These enchants have always been special & higher value than other enchants. I personally used the Covenant's Bow back in the days before V16, solely for the double value enchant it had.

So I don't see how this is considered a "fix" to an "issue".

Here's from the youtube comments section of one of my ancient videos (https://youtu.be/90WpigekWo0) to prove that these special enchants have been there since the beta of this game:

-10 months ago
And what kind of bow and enchant in it? Vampire or ww?
Reply
Decimus
Decimus10 months ago
+-
Bow is Covenant's Bow (found from Rewards of the Worthy when doing PvP), which has an enchantment that is 2x stronger than normal enchantments (deals 1k unresistable damage).
Better than this would be Master's Bow (preferably with Sharpened trait), but I haven't been lucky enough to get one yet (drops from VDSA, or as campaign rewards for top 2% of leaderboard when campaign ends).

Can we get an official response on why you nerfed these weapons, @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ? Many people I know (myself included) are really pissed off about this change.

Because they were OFFICIALLY over powered.

Asgari · June 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

So, abusing a bugged weapon gets fixed and your outraged?

I have no words.

The weapon enchants were not bugged. They have been like that since beta. That's what made the sets useful, now they are just trash as any other 3pc is better.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2016

Did they really change that?

Those enchants have been stronger since beta, and I am certain that the devs said they wanted those weapons to be stronger. Dig through 2014 forum posts, I'm sure you'll find that statement.

Mordiez · June 2016

Been playin since beta and just now learns they fix bugs, quick learner.

Aleraon · June 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Ye sucks. Just bought the only sharpened axe I could find after 3 hours two days ago and made it golden.

Well, I enjoyed it while it lasted.

Yup I feel your pain as I did the same thing myself. The only reason to have the axe was the default enchantment on it which I wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. Now I could just as easily have made it myself but hey, Zos are gonna be Zos. Seems their idea of giving us more challenging content is to nerf the damage and healing we can do, combined with a healthy mix of resource management but ah well

Bananko · June 2016

Vinther wrote: »

This is baloney

On a side note: why is baloney sometimes spelled bologna? Even if it's because of the Italian (Imperial?) pronunciation, why is there a letter 'g' included?

SleepyTroll · June 2016

How was this a bug they had double in chants since launch. It wasn't bugged. Is was a balance oversight because they through *** in once again last minute like usual. If you really believe this was a bug your a fool.

Aleraon · June 2016

Maelstrom weapons will be next as there'll no doubt come a time when the devs "find them TOO strong"

Grunim · June 2016

And this is a great reason why I take my time and wait at least a month after any major update before spending much effort or money to acquire new gold quality gear.

Asharin · June 2016

I'm slightly annoyed, because I waited for a while before buying one in case it WAS bugged. Heard nothing so finally got it 2 days ago...Oh well, I'll go back to using a Marksman's bow, and have the 5 set bonus again instead of 4

If there'd been some post saying 'Hey these are bugged and not intentionally like this' I wouldn't have got one.
It made using a bow build as primary somewhat effective, without having to grind vMSA (and I don't like vMSA, it's not even fun, so why would I want to repeat it over and over?)

Vinther · June 2016

My main problem is that maelstrom weapons suck for the specific pve build i was using the axe for...

Maelstrom weapons are crap for high crit melee dual wield builds. Because they wont even balance those. They only make stam dk crazy OP and unbalance PVP with 2h weapons and staves.

Maelstrom weapons are not universal. The axe was good to use because it used to be a viable alternative to builds that cant make use of mael weapons.

ZOS just does gamebreaking changes unannounced, so you log on and seeing your build that you worked hard for completely trashed and you are left to wonder clueless whether you should reroll to a FOTM maelstrom using class or stick to being gimp.

I mean come on... this is BALONEY

Makkir · June 2016

You taking about the bow that had like 4k unresistable dmg?

THAT was Baloney

DDuke · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

You taking about the bow that had like 4k unresistable dmg?

THAT was Baloney

5k*

and just 2,5k in Cyrodiil.

Master's Bow was still stronger back in the days when no Battle Spirit damage reduction even existed.

Meanwhile, the other enchants:
Covenant/Pact/Dominion Axe: +700 weapon dmg
Covenant/Pact/Dominion Fire Staff: 3k'ish Fire Damage & -200 spell/weapon dmg debuff on target
Covenant/Pact/Dominion Lightning Staff: 3k'ish Magic Damage & Return 1k Magicka
Covenant/Pact/Dominion Resto Staff: 3k'ish Magic Damage & Return 2k Health
Covenant 1H Sword: 5k Disease Damage
Covenant 2H Sword: 3k~ Armor Debuff on target

They were strong, but by no means overpowered. You'd still use vMSA weapons on any build that uses poisons, since you get more weapon/spell dmg from those. You'd still use vMSA weapons on any build revolving around their enchants (e.g. frost staff builds).

twev · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

I do get it. But honestly while it would be frustrating you really have no one to blame for yourself. This was talked about on the forums frequently as a bug they intended to fix. If you chose to spend an outrageous amount of gold to gain an advantage in the short term, well, I hope you got your money's worth is all I'm saying.

Consider it a lesson learned. Always do your homework before dropping the coin.

I'm just a little curious about the homework part you mention he/we ought do.
Are you privy to some deep background notes that we lazy people are ignoring which would lay out what specific details that are reported in PTS but pass into the live game are not intended to be in the game after all?

Some of us think that the devs are in control and actually have a plan for items and actions, and 'working as intended'.
Many of us seem to feel that if those items and actions are reported in PTS and then come into the live game they ARE working as intended, as the devs keep telling us so often.

I for one would sure like to know what stuff in the game is in the game on purpose, without claiming that any random detail is a mistake and is clearly a mistake because of details.

I mean, if it's not working as intended, which specific parts of the description and/or tooltip, and/or color of descriptive text is the part that is supposed to tip us off?

I keep seeing this stuff that I want to use, but I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking that I'm not supposed to trust anything in the game is in it on purpose......

radicalb21 · June 2016

Here is a link to my thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/271581/alliance-war-covenant-bow?new=1

herbster · June 2016

The issue I have is not it getting changed but the fact that they didn't say they would be changing it. That means that all the people the bought the item for gold through guild store, or AP via Elite vendor over the last few days were royally screwed because ZOS knew there were going to make the change in this patch. It's all about respect really, how do they expect to be respected by the players when they don't give fair warning that a change will be made.

Leandor · June 2016

Really? "If something is too good to be true, it is probably illegal (or, in this case, will be fixed soon)".

Congratulations on spending hundred thousands of gold on them, expecting to "creative use of game mechanics".

clocksstoppe · June 2016

jrgray93 wrote: »

I'm confused. You're upset that they fixed a bug?

"bug"

Aztlan · June 2016

herbster wrote: »

The issue I have is not it getting changed but the fact that they didn't say they would be changing it. That means that all the people the bought the item for gold through guild store, or AP via Elite vendor over the last few days were royally screwed because ZOS knew there were going to make the change in this patch. It's all about respect really, how do they expect to be respected by the players when they don't give fair warning that a change will be made.

Exactly. How about enabling us to decon these items and get back the improvement mats, or compensating us for the gold spent? That would be fair.