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Where is the completed Justice system?
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Xylphan✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Yes you can. We have two complete DLCs specifically focused on breaking the law. We have skill lines focused on breaking the law.I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
ZOS doesn't force you to get caught.
ZOS also doesn't force people to:
1. Troll
2. Stalk
3. Bully
4. Camp
5. Game the system with friends
6. Use exploits
7. Grief
...etc. But people still do it.
Again, you and others like you assume that such a system would somehow not be abused. One trip to Cyrodil is enough to convince anyone that would not be the case. They can't keep that crap from happening in a designated PvP zone. Imagine the crap that would happen in PvE zone. Imagine someone trying to complete DB or TG content, but can't because some ******* is following them around just waiting for them to break the law?
A PvP justice system is just begging to be abused. You'd have to be pretty naive to think otherwise. That's why it wasn't and won't be implemented.
again, they wouldn't make it so that if you get a 29 gold bounty for failing a pickpocket now some player can gank you, it'd be a much higher bounty, if 1000g is too low, make it 2000g, whatever, it'd be a high threshhold that basically nobody would ever get "accidentally" through normal play, but they'd be a willing criminal that isn't paying off their bounty.
Why are you people so worried about it? I hate being ganked but I'm not worried about it one bit because I don't accumulate huge bounties on myself.
Again, you're not thinking this through.
It doesn't matter what arbitrary bounty you set. It doesn't matter if you set it at 1 g or 10,000g. That isn't the problem. The problem is that it will be abused.
Even if there were absolutely no incentive to kill criminals, the system would still be abused by those sociopaths who get their rocks off on killing/tormenting other players. Or perhaps people just having a bad day looking to take it out on someone else. Then it gets to escalation. A guild member gets bounty ganked, and in retaliation said guild makes it a mission to kill the other guild's members on sight for bounty breaks. Large guilds can enforce "protection" payments that allow players to commit crimes, or otherwise be hunted and killed by the guild's members. So on and so forth.
ZOS didn't drop the idea because they wanted to. They did an analysis and forsaw all the craptastic consequences of giving the keys to the asylum to the inmates. They figured out that trying to implement a system that would keep things "fair" would either be horrendously complex or would simply fail, and the fallout from any botched implementation would be very bad. You certainly can't rely on human nature.6 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Yes you can. We have two complete DLCs specifically focused on breaking the law. We have skill lines focused on breaking the law.I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
ZOS doesn't force you to get caught.
ZOS also doesn't force people to:
1. Troll
2. Stalk
3. Bully
4. Camp
5. Game the system with friends
6. Use exploits
7. Grief
...etc. But people still do it.
Again, you and others like you assume that such a system would somehow not be abused. One trip to Cyrodil is enough to convince anyone that would not be the case. They can't keep that crap from happening in a designated PvP zone. Imagine the crap that would happen in PvE zone. Imagine someone trying to complete DB or TG content, but can't because some ******* is following them around just waiting for them to break the law?
A PvP justice system is just begging to be abused. You'd have to be pretty naive to think otherwise. That's why it wasn't and won't be implemented.
again, they wouldn't make it so that if you get a 29 gold bounty for failing a pickpocket now some player can gank you, it'd be a much higher bounty, if 1000g is too low, make it 2000g, whatever, it'd be a high threshhold that basically nobody would ever get "accidentally" through normal play, but they'd be a willing criminal that isn't paying off their bounty.
Why are you people so worried about it? I hate being ganked but I'm not worried about it one bit because I don't accumulate huge bounties on myself.
Again, you're not thinking this through.
It doesn't matter what arbitrary bounty you set. It doesn't matter if you set it at 1 g or 10,000g. That isn't the problem. The problem is that it will be abused.
Even if there were absolutely no incentive to kill criminals, the system would still be abused by those sociopaths who get their rocks off on killing/tormenting other players. Or perhaps people just having a bad day looking to take it out on someone else. Then it gets to escalation. A guild member gets bounty ganked, and in retaliation said guild makes it a mission to kill the other guild's members on sight for bounty breaks. Large guilds can enforce "protection" payments that allow players to commit crimes, or otherwise be hunted and killed by the guild's members. So on and so forth.
ZOS didn't drop the idea because they wanted to. They did an analysis and forsaw all the craptastic consequences of giving the keys to the asylum to the inmates. They figured out that trying to implement a system that would keep things "fair" would either be horrendously complex or would simply fail, and the fallout from any botched implementation would be very bad. You certainly can't rely on human nature.
Those who dont grasp this arent struggling with it. Theyre in denial of it. They think they can out think the problem and somehow do it with simple measures that somehow ZOS was too dumb to consider.
I think the biggest problem this community has when it comes to content is being told No.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax3 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm not sure but it would be something to make the justice system feel more complete. Currently it's more of crime system than justice system...
This is exactly how I feel. There are no real consequences for stealing or killing in the game.
For people against adding pvp enforcers- Do you think that the justice system is complete the way it is now? If not what would you add?Edited by Osteos on June 12, 2016 7:44PMDAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
I'm not sure but it would be something to make the justice system feel more complete. Currently it's more of crime system than justice system...
This is exactly how I feel. There are no real consequences for stealing or killing in the game.
For people against adding pvp enforcers- Do you think that the justice system is complete the way it is now? If not what would you add?
Nirn has different morals - murder is ok as long as you can pay the fine to the guards, and so is thievery - it is illegal but there is no real punishment for those, able to pay the fine - they will be upstanding again and be treated like everyone else. Just trespassing is something what is really disliked in Tamriel and deserves to get killed on the spot.
Edit: but sometimes it can get creepy - my argonian has somewhere picked up and started a quest and not complete it yet, what makes his conscience talk to him, whenever he is killing someone - like "how many lives have you been taking", it is pestering him for any such action he is doing - not that he would care a lot, it is just creepy, because this is triggered everywhere in the game, not just in the quest zone.Edited by Lysette on June 12, 2016 7:58PM0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not the case at all what everyone posted their was that you have 95% of the dam game to yourself and we have our 5% that's broken.That's why we say you shouldn't have a PVE campaign since we don't have a 100% PVP world you shouldn't have our 5%.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.
No, it wasn't. The person I replied to in that thread was concerned that there wouldn't be people to kill in Cyrodiil if the ones who really didn't want to be there for pvp had an alternative. It would be interesting to see stats of the pvp population and the pve only population. Who knows? Perhaps the relative size of the game world is appropriate. Or maybe it should be reversed. Only ZOS knows for sure.
The thread was about the scrapped justice system. People kept posting stuff about opting in/toggles/completely optional, then saying that once your bounty went over a set limit, you would be a target for the justice system/bounty hunters/open world pvp whether you wanted it or not. There is no way to "have a toggle" and have a bounty automatically flag someone for pvp. That is not "optional".
As far as the 95% of the game thing goes; you have access to the entire 100% of the game. No one is going to hunt you in the pve areas and gank you. You might not like the content or don't believe its challenging enough, but you have access to it. The players who don't want to pvp don't have free access to 100% of the game, because of some of the pvp players who do hunt them down and gank them.2 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
I'm not sure but it would be something to make the justice system feel more complete. Currently it's more of crime system than justice system...
This is exactly how I feel. There are no real consequences for stealing or killing in the game.
For people against adding pvp enforcers- Do you think that the justice system is complete the way it is now? If not what would you add?
Nirn has different morals - murder is ok as long as you can pay the fine to the guards, and so is thievery - it is illegal but there is no real punishment for those, able to pay the fine - they will be upstanding again and be treated like everyone else. Just trespassing is something what is really disliked in Tamriel and deserves to get killed on the spot.
Edit: but sometimes it can get creepy - my argonian has somewhere picked up and started a quest and not complete it yet, what makes his conscience talk to him, whenever he is killing someone - like "how many lives have you been taking", it is pestering him for any such action he is doing - not that he would care a lot, it is just creepy, because this is triggered everywhere in the game, not just in the quest zone.
He picked up a cursed amulet in Grahtwood.
As far as the morals response, its more then just being able to pay a fine or the guards wouldn't become kill on sight once your bounty was high enough.DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭They have already mentioned a few times that the justice system won't be elaborated further, there will be no Enforcers, etc.1 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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That not what I said at all but I guess you can't read lol.Their shouldn't be any PVE in PVP at all.The justice system should be in the game but most players here said you shouldn't be able to ruin our experience by adding PVP penalties to PVE.So you shouldn't be able to ruin PVP with PVE.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »
That's not the case at all what everyone posted their was that you have 95% of the dam game to yourself and we have our 5% that's broken.That's why we say you shouldn't have a PVE campaign since we don't have a 100% PVP world you shouldn't have our 5%.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.
So you have the childish view that if someone else has something that works, and you have something that doesnt. The only answer is to take the working portion of a system from them?
LMAO.1 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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So one dude is the entire PVP population? OK wow so because one person believe that we most all believe that,we don't but your in a PVP area you will get killed if your another faction.I don't care what you are doing if your not blue am going kill you.Save for a few people because I know them and respect them.
That's not the case at all what everyone posted their was that you have 95% of the dam game to yourself and we have our 5% that's broken.That's why we say you shouldn't have a PVE campaign since we don't have a 100% PVP world you shouldn't have our 5%.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.
No, it wasn't. The person I replied to in that thread was concerned that there wouldn't be people to kill in Cyrodiil if the ones who really didn't want to be there for pvp had an alternative. It would be interesting to see stats of the pvp population and the pve only population. Who knows? Perhaps the relative size of the game world is appropriate. Or maybe it should be reversed. Only ZOS knows for sure.
The thread was about the scrapped justice system. People kept posting stuff about opting in/toggles/completely optional, then saying that once your bounty went over a set limit, you would be a target for the justice system/bounty hunters/open world pvp whether you wanted it or not. There is no way to "have a toggle" and have a bounty automatically flag someone for pvp. That is not "optional".
As far as the 95% of the game thing goes; you have access to the entire 100% of the game. No one is going to hunt you in the pve areas and gank you. You might not like the content or don't believe its challenging enough, but you have access to it. The players who don't want to pvp don't have free access to 100% of the game, because of some of the pvp players who do hunt them down and gank them.
Your stats on the 2 population will be completely lop sided since ZOS made most PVPers leave the population used to be more even now not even close.
I disagree it is optional you have the choice not to break the law.You also have the choice to steal and if you do be good at it so you don't get caught.Thieves don't go around stealing in the open and expect nothing to happen.That what the game needs you shouldn't be able to steal and kill people and not expect something to happen in Skyrim and other elder Scrolls game if you just walked up and kill someone the guards would chase you and try to kill you.
Of anything you wouldn't have to kill those players if ZOS was smart or like someone else said make a new skill line just for guards where they won't kill you but they will arrest you.This way both sides get what they want a player won't kill you but a player can still stop you PVP and PVE are happy,or have it still be a fight but you don't kill the person you get them to low health and you have a prompt that pop up so that you can arrest the person or you can have a escape attempt.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So one dude is the entire PVP population? OK wow so because one person believe that we most all believe that,we don't but your in a PVP area you will get killed if your another faction.I don't care what you are doing if your not blue am going kill you.Save for a few people because I know them and respect them.
Your stats on the 2 population will be completely lop sided since ZOS made most PVPers leave the population used to be more even now not even close.
I disagree it is optional you have the choice not to break the law.You also have the choice to steal and if you do be good at it so you don't get caught.Thieves don't go around stealing in the open and expect nothing to happen.That what the game needs you shouldn't be able to steal and kill people and not expect something to happen in Skyrim and other elder Scrolls game if you just walked up and kill someone the guards would chase you and try to kill you.
Of anything you wouldn't have to kill those players if ZOS was smart or like someone else said make a new skill line just for guards where they won't kill you but they will arrest you.This way both sides get what they want a player won't kill you but a player can still stop you PVP and PVE are happy,or have it still be a fight but you don't kill the person you get them to low health and you have a prompt that pop up so that you can arrest the person or you can have a escape attempt.
Sorry but there are already GUARDS in PvE we don't need any more 'player' guards added. ZOS comes out with TWO DLCS that revolve around committing crimes then somehow they're supposed to add the ability for other players to thwart their ability to enjoy the content after people paid to enjoy it... I don't think so. As numerous others have stated, not all players are good at stealth, and when you have certain racial passives that are bias towards stealth and medium armor bias towards Stamina players... that means that Light/Heavy armored non-Khajiit/Bosmer are not going to have it as easy and are more likely to be spotted than others. This would contribute further towards imbalance in the game, where we already have enough problems with that as it is.Edited by ADarklore on June 12, 2016 9:28PMCP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes unkilledable guards that a 3 year old can escape from.Jump in water they deaggro.Am sorry but what the hell are you talking about because what you said made no sense at all.Players are not going to stop you from completeing the story but hell yes they should have a right to report you for killing someone in their face or stealing from a NPC.Not to mentioned if your bad at stealth that's no one fault but your own.Not to mentioned you most definitely don't have to be a Bosmer or Khajiit to steal things any race can do it so that poimt also make no sense.I also belibe they only have bonus to damage down in stealth and crit bonus nothing that reduce the coat of sneak.I really don't understand what you are trying to say because it make Zero sense light armor and heavy armor players can steal and sneak just like medium armor player can their also potions that make you invisible.So one dude is the entire PVP population? OK wow so because one person believe that we most all believe that,we don't but your in a PVP area you will get killed if your another faction.I don't care what you are doing if your not blue am going kill you.Save for a few people because I know them and respect them.
Your stats on the 2 population will be completely lop sided since ZOS made most PVPers leave the population used to be more even now not even close.
I disagree it is optional you have the choice not to break the law.You also have the choice to steal and if you do be good at it so you don't get caught.Thieves don't go around stealing in the open and expect nothing to happen.That what the game needs you shouldn't be able to steal and kill people and not expect something to happen in Skyrim and other elder Scrolls game if you just walked up and kill someone the guards would chase you and try to kill you.
Of anything you wouldn't have to kill those players if ZOS was smart or like someone else said make a new skill line just for guards where they won't kill you but they will arrest you.This way both sides get what they want a player won't kill you but a player can still stop you PVP and PVE are happy,or have it still be a fight but you don't kill the person you get them to low health and you have a prompt that pop up so that you can arrest the person or you can have a escape attempt.
Sorry but there are already GUARDS in PvE we don't need any more 'player' guards added. ZOS comes out with TWO DLCS that revolve around committing crimes then somehow they're supposed to add the ability for other players to thwart their ability to enjoy the content after people paid to enjoy it... I don't think so. As numerous others have stated, not all players are good at stealth, and when you have certain racial passives that are bias towards stealth and medium armor bias towards Stamina players... that means that Light/Heavy armored non-Khajiit/Bosmer are not going to have it as easy and are more likely to be spotted than others. This would contribute further towards imbalance in the game, where we already have enough problems with that as it is.
So you telling me because their is bad players in the game we shouldn't add new content?So because players are not good at Dungeons and trials ZOS shouldn't add more of that content?That's what it is sounding like your saying to me right now.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes unkilledable guards that a 3 year old can escape from.Jump in water they deaggro.Am sorry but what the hell are you talking about because what you said made no sense at all.Players are not going to stop you from completeing the story but hell yes they should have a right to report you for killing someone in their face or stealing from a NPC.Not to mentioned if your bad at stealth that's no one fault but your own.Not to mentioned you most definitely don't have to be a Bosmer or Khajiit to steal things any race can do it so that poimt also make no sense.I also belibe they only have bonus to damage down in stealth and crit bonus nothing that reduce the coat of sneak.I really don't understand what you are trying to say because it make Zero sense light armor and heavy armor players can steal and sneak just like medium armor player can their also potions that make you invisible.So one dude is the entire PVP population? OK wow so because one person believe that we most all believe that,we don't but your in a PVP area you will get killed if your another faction.I don't care what you are doing if your not blue am going kill you.Save for a few people because I know them and respect them.
Your stats on the 2 population will be completely lop sided since ZOS made most PVPers leave the population used to be more even now not even close.
I disagree it is optional you have the choice not to break the law.You also have the choice to steal and if you do be good at it so you don't get caught.Thieves don't go around stealing in the open and expect nothing to happen.That what the game needs you shouldn't be able to steal and kill people and not expect something to happen in Skyrim and other elder Scrolls game if you just walked up and kill someone the guards would chase you and try to kill you.
Of anything you wouldn't have to kill those players if ZOS was smart or like someone else said make a new skill line just for guards where they won't kill you but they will arrest you.This way both sides get what they want a player won't kill you but a player can still stop you PVP and PVE are happy,or have it still be a fight but you don't kill the person you get them to low health and you have a prompt that pop up so that you can arrest the person or you can have a escape attempt.
Sorry but there are already GUARDS in PvE we don't need any more 'player' guards added. ZOS comes out with TWO DLCS that revolve around committing crimes then somehow they're supposed to add the ability for other players to thwart their ability to enjoy the content after people paid to enjoy it... I don't think so. As numerous others have stated, not all players are good at stealth, and when you have certain racial passives that are bias towards stealth and medium armor bias towards Stamina players... that means that Light/Heavy armored non-Khajiit/Bosmer are not going to have it as easy and are more likely to be spotted than others. This would contribute further towards imbalance in the game, where we already have enough problems with that as it is.
So you telling me because their is bad players in the game we shouldn't add new content?So because players are not good at Dungeons and trials ZOS shouldn't add more of that content?That's what it is sounding like your saying to me right now.
I haven''t seen anyone yet who is opposed to new content being added. What some are saying, however, is that ZOS are right to have decided that PvP and PvE will be kept separate in future. Have new small-scale PvP content by all means, as is already promised, but don't have it as an incursion into PvE areas and in a form that involves applying PvP penalties to PvE crimes in those PvE areas.2 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I haven''t seen anyone yet who is opposed to new content being added. What some are saying, however, is that ZOS are right to have decided that PvP and PvE will be kept separate in future. Have new small-scale PvP content by all means, as is already promised, but don't have it as an incursion into PvE areas and in a form that involves applying PvP penalties to PvE crimes in those PvE areas.
To be fair, people were against harsher PvE punishment for their crimes as well. All they want is a crime system that allows them to steal and murder without any consequence, be it PvE or PvP.
Edit: The unwillingness to accept consequences was the reason for the removal of the option to kill off companions in SWTOR and it extends to singleplayer games as well. That's one of the reasons I love the Witcher series... your actions have consequences.
Edited by Kendaric on June 12, 2016 10:48PM2 -
Taisynn✭✭✭✭✭Gosh, this rift between PVE and PVP players is ridiculous. PVE is supposed to be dedicated to only taking on NPC's. They said they want to preserve this and I am so glad they will.
I swear, the people who want this are extremely rude. Because they got told no, we who support ZOS' decision are told we are care bears, scared, casuals, etc.
To me, this PVP community is entirely toxic. The exploiters are heard of everyday now. If people lose, they sit there and curse, scream, and harass players. If they win, they turn into gloaters. And anyone who doesn't want to play by their rules is a care bear, ZOS kissup, etc. And THIS is why I avoid PVP like the plague, because their behavior is abhorrent and it makes things stressful.
When I play PVP, I'm always beyond shocked at how rude people are. I may kill someone and maybe use a funny emote over them (cry, sweep, or sometimes dance) if they wait too long to respawn, but I always expect them to return the favor later. To me, I take what AP I've earned and I'm happy with that. I even congradulate people who kill me. Because it's just a game, and I'm pretty sure the players behind the screen they are in their pajamas and relaxing just like me.
Remember, this is a GAME and you all seem like poor sports...Edited by Taisynn on June 12, 2016 10:34PMPC - @Taisynn - NA - CP 268
Shizuko url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CvZa0PPdzAfUv9h_rd8J2vwc1B4NnZGkPL_n4WfgYfs/edit?usp=sharing"]RP Profile[/url - Bosmer - LVL50 - Nightblade 50 Provisioning, 50 Woodworking, 50 Clothing, 50 Alchemy Ebonhart Pact
Nev'e - Bosmer - LVL 18 - Templar 50 Enchanting Ebonhart Pact
Proud Member of the Guilds:
Rusty Old Dragons (Trade) | Children of Skyrim (RP/EP) | Goldleaf Acquisitions (RP/EP)
Spicy Economics (Trade) | The Jackals (RP/EP)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ok so in an open minded state, lets consider a limited test of the pvp into pvp cross over concept.
For 3 months, if a pve player on pve auest is in cyrodil or ic, the zone is pve.
If pvp players overwhelming support having their pvp zone jammed out of pvp by questing pve, then we can look at reconsidering the pvp justice system.
Personally, i doubt they will be pleased at that gander but lets give it a try.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't understand what you are saying can you rewrite your post in another way?Ok so in an open minded state, lets consider a limited test of the pvp into pvp cross over concept.
For 3 months, if a pve player on pve auest is in cyrodil or ic, the zone is pve.
If pvp players overwhelming support having their pvp zone jammed out of pvp by questing pve, then we can look at reconsidering the pvp justice system.
Personally, i doubt they will be pleased at that gander but lets give it a try.2 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not true at all even you have said you do not want this added because you do not enjoy t and it would ruin your personally experiences no matter if not adding it is ruining other player experience in the game.Your asking for content not to he added to the game because you don't want it.Its like Role players telling people asking for new Dungeons because they want new customs and don't like doing that type of content.You basically saying the same thing because you do not want it in the game or do not find enjoyment in doing it you do not want it in the game.
Yes unkilledable guards that a 3 year old can escape from.Jump in water they deaggro.Am sorry but what the hell are you talking about because what you said made no sense at all.Players are not going to stop you from completeing the story but hell yes they should have a right to report you for killing someone in their face or stealing from a NPC.Not to mentioned if your bad at stealth that's no one fault but your own.Not to mentioned you most definitely don't have to be a Bosmer or Khajiit to steal things any race can do it so that poimt also make no sense.I also belibe they only have bonus to damage down in stealth and crit bonus nothing that reduce the coat of sneak.I really don't understand what you are trying to say because it make Zero sense light armor and heavy armor players can steal and sneak just like medium armor player can their also potions that make you invisible.So one dude is the entire PVP population? OK wow so because one person believe that we most all believe that,we don't but your in a PVP area you will get killed if your another faction.I don't care what you are doing if your not blue am going kill you.Save for a few people because I know them and respect them.
Your stats on the 2 population will be completely lop sided since ZOS made most PVPers leave the population used to be more even now not even close.
I disagree it is optional you have the choice not to break the law.You also have the choice to steal and if you do be good at it so you don't get caught.Thieves don't go around stealing in the open and expect nothing to happen.That what the game needs you shouldn't be able to steal and kill people and not expect something to happen in Skyrim and other elder Scrolls game if you just walked up and kill someone the guards would chase you and try to kill you.
Of anything you wouldn't have to kill those players if ZOS was smart or like someone else said make a new skill line just for guards where they won't kill you but they will arrest you.This way both sides get what they want a player won't kill you but a player can still stop you PVP and PVE are happy,or have it still be a fight but you don't kill the person you get them to low health and you have a prompt that pop up so that you can arrest the person or you can have a escape attempt.
Sorry but there are already GUARDS in PvE we don't need any more 'player' guards added. ZOS comes out with TWO DLCS that revolve around committing crimes then somehow they're supposed to add the ability for other players to thwart their ability to enjoy the content after people paid to enjoy it... I don't think so. As numerous others have stated, not all players are good at stealth, and when you have certain racial passives that are bias towards stealth and medium armor bias towards Stamina players... that means that Light/Heavy armored non-Khajiit/Bosmer are not going to have it as easy and are more likely to be spotted than others. This would contribute further towards imbalance in the game, where we already have enough problems with that as it is.
So you telling me because their is bad players in the game we shouldn't add new content?So because players are not good at Dungeons and trials ZOS shouldn't add more of that content?That's what it is sounding like your saying to me right now.
I haven''t seen anyone yet who is opposed to new content being added. What some are saying, however, is that ZOS are right to have decided that PvP and PvE will be kept separate in future. Have new small-scale PvP content by all means, as is already promised, but don't have it as an incursion into PvE areas and in a form that involves applying PvP penalties to PvE crimes in those PvE areas.0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
Because those are warzones! It doesn't make sense to have the justice system in a warzone. Warzones are kind of an exception to normal criminal behavior. When a city is seiged and occupied by deadric forces and hostile opposing armies, it makes no sense to PvP your own faction. Currently there isn't even a way to gain a bounty in Cyrodiil. One thing you'll generally notice about horrendously war torn areas like the deadric controlled Imperial City; there are bigger fish to fry than petty thieves and murderers.
As for wanting to kill inexperienced PvEers, that isn't true. I don't want to. I mean I will if they are flagged, but I would rather fight someone good. I fully support a toggle. Keep PvP off and PvE a thief/murderer all you want. Toggle it on if you actually want a challenge. I would love to level my Legerdemain, but my god is it the most boring thing in the world. Stealing from npcs with only mindless npc guards to hide from is the most boring thing I have experience in this game. I can't bring myself to do it. Adding players that could catch me in the act and get some PvP action to break up the monotony would be great!PC/EU DC3 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't understand what you are saying can you rewrite your post in another way?Ok so in an open minded state, lets consider a limited test of the pvp into pvp cross over concept.
For 3 months, if a pve player on pve auest is in cyrodil or ic, the zone is pve.
If pvp players overwhelming support having their pvp zone jammed out of pvp by questing pve, then we can look at reconsidering the pvp justice system.
Personally, i doubt they will be pleased at that gander but lets give it a try.
He's simply making the statement that PVP players wouldn't like PVE forced upon them in Cyrodiil...What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't understand what you are saying can you rewrite your post in another way?Ok so in an open minded state, lets consider a limited test of the pvp into pvp cross over concept.
For 3 months, if a pve player on pve auest is in cyrodil or ic, the zone is pve.
If pvp players overwhelming support having their pvp zone jammed out of pvp by questing pve, then we can look at reconsidering the pvp justice system.
Personally, i doubt they will be pleased at that gander but lets give it a try.
He's simply making the statement that PVP players wouldn't like PVE forced upon them in Cyrodiil...
uh...XD
In all seriousness though, do people feel that the justice system is complete as is? This is main question @Delegator asked orginally. I certainly don't.Edited by Osteos on June 13, 2016 1:07AMDAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't understand what you are saying can you rewrite your post in another way?Ok so in an open minded state, lets consider a limited test of the pvp into pvp cross over concept.
For 3 months, if a pve player on pve auest is in cyrodil or ic, the zone is pve.
If pvp players overwhelming support having their pvp zone jammed out of pvp by questing pve, then we can look at reconsidering the pvp justice system.
Personally, i doubt they will be pleased at that gander but lets give it a try.
He's simply making the statement that PVP players wouldn't like PVE forced upon them in Cyrodiil...
But it is already. We need to PvE to get an AP buff. We need to PvE to get Cold Fire siege weapons, and we need to PvE to get monster sets (Monster Vendor helps a little)and Maelstrom weapons, and we need to PvE for undaunted passives. Also, our one PvP update, the Imperial City is crawling with mobs and sweeper bosses (PvE), that, prior to the DB update made small scale PvP in IC really annoying.PC/EU DC2 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »My i ask what are you on? Yolo generation? Epeens?
Take for example, the recent launch of Black Desert Online. Here is an example of a great engine, excellent graphics, fun active combat, and yet the game flopped in the first month due to terrible decisions that led to horrible imbalance and masses of players leaving in droves.
Specifically, they built the game around this same sort of forced PVP mindset, where one group of players (PVE players, by far the majority in any MMO), were forced to be flagged for open world PVP whether they wanted to participate or not. Players with tons of money or time to grind had gear with 3 or 4 times the stats of average level gear and would stalk questing players and annihilate them. Why? Because that's what people do!
Literally within the first month the top 4 streamers posted videos about why they were leaving, and this was among the top 3 reasons.
Were ESO to implement such a system, it would be to cater to a very small demographic of players that want the PVP elements of the game to be forced onto the PVE elements of the game. I am saying I am glad ZOS reconsidered not making this same foolish mistake.
So much of this game is build around stealing, getting bounty, then trading off leniency items or waiting it out, in order to make gold, experience content, etc. Two whole DLC's have been built around this.
To introduce a system where getting bounty during the normal course of playing the bulk of recent content would result in you being subjected to quest hub camping and forced PVP by "guard" players in superior gear 1-shot ganking you, would be a TERRIBLE decision, regardless of how it was marketed.
Besides, this was always a "maybe" thing as far as I am aware.
Like I said if they find a compromise to make it optional for both the PVP AND PVE players, meaning you don't automatically get flagged as bait just for having a certain bounty, but only if you WANT to, as a sort of dueling option for open world, and IF they could make it forbidden in cities and trade areas so people didn't constantly make more of a mess of crafting hubs with their PVP antics, then I wouldn't be 100% against it.
It's just something I personally have zero interest in even in a perfect scenario and if forced or done badly or made exploitable or unbalancing, it destroys games.
It would honestly be an even smaller demographic than that of the PvP Community. Much like Gankers make up a small portion of the PvP Community its likely those that would have been more than a casual involvement with the Justice System PvP would have been a very small group of players capitalizing on PvEers committing crimes.
The sad truth is that even with such a small portion of the PvP playerbase actively participating in it it would still garner a great deal of animosity between the PvP and PvE community. And we have more than enough of that going around as it is.
You act like people just accidentally rack up 1000g bounties in normal play.
Doesn't the deaths from Godmode guards already impede your gameplay if you accidentally get that high of a bounty?
Ive never seen ZOS talk about how much gold or bounty it would take to instigate PvP in the Justice System so I dont know where you got that absurd idea that 1k gold is that bench mark for it. All Ive seen are people who cant accept that something is no longer on the table for development throwing around poorly thought out ideas of how it could work. And it does not take 1k gold to rack up the third tier of Bounty in the Justice System.
The guards arent going to camp The Outlaw Refuges or troll/grief individuals. Just because youre not bright enough or imaginative enough to see how things can go wrong with a Justice System PvP doesnt mean its not possible. And apparently the Devs have the same concerns that I and others have. That players will find ways to exploit the system and cause harm.
Case Closed regardless of how you feel about it.
It's a guess. But whatever threshold they pick they would need to do so in a way that unwilling people wouldn't get it accidentally.
Like I said, I'm not a PVP player for the most part, I do PVP very infrequently. I hate ganking in games where the PVP rulesets are too loose. I liked the proposed system because the rules are more tight, fairer, have a voluntary nature to it, would make sense in a lore/narrative sense, and it could create some opportunities for interesting dynamic things happening in the game world, rather than just stale people questing and gathering crafting mats day in, day out.
You're looking at the PVP players being the enforcers preying on poor widdle pve players who accidentally touched a sweetroll on a table when trying to talk to the banker. Remember, it'd have to be a serious crime streak, more than even the guards consider KoS, I remember that from the first time they talked about the system that eventually the guards wouldn't be seen as a threat to you anymore so they'd bring in player enforcers.. but this was always going to be at a threshold higher than NPC guards attacking. Remember that every Outlaw Refuge has 2 entrances, and you can see other players in "stealth" mode in PVE. Remember leniency edicts
I'm looking at it it being much more likely that PVP players will be career criminals with bounties in the 10's of thousands of gold, with active manhunts going on in the zone trying to find them and bring them to justice.0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Yes you can. We have two complete DLCs specifically focused on breaking the law. We have skill lines focused on breaking the law.I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
ZOS doesn't force you to get caught.
ZOS also doesn't force people to:
1. Troll
2. Stalk
3. Bully
4. Camp
5. Game the system with friends
6. Use exploits
7. Grief
...etc. But people still do it.
Again, you and others like you assume that such a system would somehow not be abused. One trip to Cyrodil is enough to convince anyone that would not be the case. They can't keep that crap from happening in a designated PvP zone. Imagine the crap that would happen in PvE zone. Imagine someone trying to complete DB or TG content, but can't because some ******* is following them around just waiting for them to break the law?
A PvP justice system is just begging to be abused. You'd have to be pretty naive to think otherwise. That's why it wasn't and won't be implemented.
again, they wouldn't make it so that if you get a 29 gold bounty for failing a pickpocket now some player can gank you, it'd be a much higher bounty, if 1000g is too low, make it 2000g, whatever, it'd be a high threshhold that basically nobody would ever get "accidentally" through normal play, but they'd be a willing criminal that isn't paying off their bounty.
Why are you people so worried about it? I hate being ganked but I'm not worried about it one bit because I don't accumulate huge bounties on myself.
Again, you're not thinking this through.
It doesn't matter what arbitrary bounty you set. It doesn't matter if you set it at 1 g or 10,000g. That isn't the problem. The problem is that it will be abused.
Even if there were absolutely no incentive to kill criminals, the system would still be abused by those sociopaths who get their rocks off on killing/tormenting other players. Or perhaps people just having a bad day looking to take it out on someone else. Then it gets to escalation. A guild member gets bounty ganked, and in retaliation said guild makes it a mission to kill the other guild's members on sight for bounty breaks. Large guilds can enforce "protection" payments that allow players to commit crimes, or otherwise be hunted and killed by the guild's members. So on and so forth.
ZOS didn't drop the idea because they wanted to. They did an analysis and forsaw all the craptastic consequences of giving the keys to the asylum to the inmates. They figured out that trying to implement a system that would keep things "fair" would either be horrendously complex or would simply fail, and the fallout from any botched implementation would be very bad. You certainly can't rely on human nature.
IF the threshold is appropriate, you will never have unwilling players dying due to justice system PVP. You just set it high enough that no player accidentally gets that high.
again, you're thinking that PVP players will be the enforcers trying to prey on poor widdle pve players who apparently can't tell their you know what from a hole in the ground and somehow get a bounty in the thousands from normal play and who somehow can avoid the normal god mode guards long enough, without ever paying off their bounty, for a "vicious griefer pvp'er" to kill them.
I think the more likely scenario is PVP players will get absolutely ridiculous bounties to entice people to try and kill them.0 -
dwtdwtdwt✭✭✭I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
You are so wrong. It's not "griefing" players who break the law. It's griefing players who break the law and get caught! I steal all day long, but I never get a bounty, because I don't suck.
By all means, go pickpocket everyone in town. Steal the contents of that vendor's lockbox. Use the Blade of Woe on the unsuspecting NPC fisherman. But if you accrue a bounty, it's because you are doing it wrong and must be punished. Currently, there is no fair punishment for these crimes whatsoever, and there should be. Allowing players to enforce that type of extremely poor, foul play is a wonderful solution to your unpleasant actions.Edited by dwtdwtdwt on June 13, 2016 5:13AM"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
Because those are warzones! It doesn't make sense to have the justice system in a warzone. Warzones are kind of an exception to normal criminal behavior. When a city is seiged and occupied by deadric forces and hostile opposing armies, it makes no sense to PvP your own faction. Currently there isn't even a way to gain a bounty in Cyrodiil. One thing you'll generally notice about horrendously war torn areas like the deadric controlled Imperial City; there are bigger fish to fry than petty thieves and murderers.
As for wanting to kill inexperienced PvEers, that isn't true. I don't want to. I mean I will if they are flagged, but I would rather fight someone good. I fully support a toggle. Keep PvP off and PvE a thief/murderer all you want. Toggle it on if you actually want a challenge. I would love to level my Legerdemain, but my god is it the most boring thing in the world. Stealing from npcs with only mindless npc guards to hide from is the most boring thing I have experience in this game. I can't bring myself to do it. Adding players that could catch me in the act and get some PvP action to break up the monotony would be great!
This is the kind of guy I actually see the PVP aspect of the justice system really working for. He'll be the guy that has a 20,000 gold bounty on his head and gets his thrills from evading your attempts to kill him and cash in his bounty. He won't be hunting you, you'll be hunting him. Ever wanted to roleplay Tamriel's most wanted? This is how you can make that happen.1 -
DanteD55Soul ShrivenThe godmode guards were suppose to be a stopgap measure until proper pvp guards who would offer a real challenge for those with high bounty.
If ZOS aren't going to add pvp then they should change the guard system to an Elite NPC group that spawns hunting you as soon as your bounty gets really high.
No invincible guards as that is NOT lore friendly and makes no sense as you are the vestige, slayer of Molag Bal and should not be bested by a average joe who can take more of a beating then a Daedric Prince.
As you kill guards and bounty rises you should be locked out of interactions with all merchants/bankers/quest givers and as a real deterrent, locked out of fast travel. Fast travel in eso uses a wayshrine system which charges gold, meaning you are paying someone in order to be teleported. If your a notorious criminal then they will refuse to do so.
So if you recklessly commit too many crimes then 4 Elite Bounty Hunter npcs spawn through a portal nearby and attack you, mercilessly making it extremely difficult to escape justice with high bounty. Should you evade this group and not bring your bounty down, then the next law abiding npc that spots you will raise the alarm summoning more. this would make the footpad skill more useful
Changes like these will allow minor lawbreakers the ability to enjoy the crime orientated dlcs as even if you suck at stealth, having an option to fight your way out will alleviate the frustration of being slaughtered by immortals.
I've yet to finish the thieves guild dlc with a non nightblade build as from a roleplaying perspective a non stealthy brute would resort to brute strength to eliminate any witnesses and a mage would use illusion school spells to make guards flee their posts or go berserk and kill eachother but none of these are options in ESO.
ZOS have said that they want players to play the game their way, but the current justice system limits how you can play as an effective thief by absence of the witness system and presence of immortal guards.
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Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
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In all seriousness though, do people feel that the justice system is complete as is?
Yes. I do, I commit a crime and get caught, I have a Bounty to deal with. How I deal with it is up to me and no one else.
Besides, the one thing that all the people salivating over killing other players in a PvE zone forget, is it's quite easy to be a criminal in this game and never be caught, so where would all your targets be? Then people would come on the boards complaining there are no players to kill in PvE. Between that and any opt out system they would have to implement, there would be nothing for any justice posses to go after.
So a bunch of time and resources spent making a system that very few would participate in to become the hunted, and the hunters would have to few to no targets. Big waste really.
Edited by Nestor on August 29, 2016 8:41PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
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If so, then how come there are people with millions of bounty freely walking around Tamriel?
And those are the ones that made the mistake to abuse the system with their mains, otherwise they would just delete the character.Edited by Dubhliam on August 29, 2016 8:43PM0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's a shame, I'm not much for PVP these days, but the PLAYER bounty system would have been cool. Every once in awhile I rack up a huge bounty and just for a second start looking for other players to come after me.
A player bounty system as part of the Justice system really should happen.2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The godmode guards were suppose to be a stopgap measure until proper pvp guards who would offer a real challenge for those with high bounty.
If ZOS aren't going to add pvp then they should change the guard system to an Elite NPC group that spawns hunting you as soon as your bounty gets really high.
No invincible guards as that is NOT lore friendly and makes no sense as you are the vestige, slayer of Molag Bal and should not be bested by a average joe who can take more of a beating then a Daedric Prince.
As you kill guards and bounty rises you should be locked out of interactions with all merchants/bankers/quest givers and as a real deterrent, locked out of fast travel. Fast travel in eso uses a wayshrine system which charges gold, meaning you are paying someone in order to be teleported. If your a notorious criminal then they will refuse to do so.
So if you recklessly commit too many crimes then 4 Elite Bounty Hunter npcs spawn through a portal nearby and attack you, mercilessly making it extremely difficult to escape justice with high bounty. Should you evade this group and not bring your bounty down, then the next law abiding npc that spots you will raise the alarm summoning more. this would make the footpad skill more useful
Changes like these will allow minor lawbreakers the ability to enjoy the crime orientated dlcs as even if you suck at stealth, having an option to fight your way out will alleviate the frustration of being slaughtered by immortals.
I've yet to finish the thieves guild dlc with a non nightblade build as from a roleplaying perspective a non stealthy brute would resort to brute strength to eliminate any witnesses and a mage would use illusion school spells to make guards flee their posts or go berserk and kill eachother but none of these are options in ESO.
ZOS have said that they want players to play the game their way, but the current justice system limits how you can play as an effective thief by absence of the witness system and presence of immortal guards.
Maybe check the time this was cancelled @DanteD55 but otherwise your ideas don't make sense in a server based game.
This idea only works in a very limited capacity which then offers opportunities for planned attacks or raids to remove security from areas which would completely mess up the game and economy over time.
I don't know why ZOS even started this idea because the only way to offer t would be if they redid all of Cyrodil and populated the whole area with 10 x's more towns and NPCs as well as quests to allow a PvP and PvE environment but in the end ppl just want a griefing system.
All in all....this type of stuff requires a lot of more software and texhnology enhancements as well as mostly all customers having gigbit ISP's and extremely high bandwidth servers.
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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