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Where is the completed Justice system?
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
Edited by Rune_Relic on June 12, 2016 1:33PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.2 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Yes you can. We have two complete DLCs specifically focused on breaking the law. We have skill lines focused on breaking the law.I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
ZOS doesn't force you to get caught.
ZOS also doesn't force people to:
1. Troll
2. Stalk
3. Bully
4. Camp
5. Game the system with friends
6. Use exploits
7. Grief
...etc. But people still do it.
Again, you and others like you assume that such a system would somehow not be abused. One trip to Cyrodil is enough to convince anyone that would not be the case. They can't keep that crap from happening in a designated PvP zone. Imagine the crap that would happen in PvE zone. Imagine someone trying to complete DB or TG content, but can't because some ******* is following them around just waiting for them to break the law?
A PvP justice system is just begging to be abused. You'd have to be pretty naive to think otherwise. That's why it wasn't and won't be implemented.4 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
Really ? I'm gobsmacked. Oh well...you found one lolEdited by Rune_Relic on June 12, 2016 2:05PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭This again. A simple Google search will confirm that its been canned.
But its not all bad. Duelling and battlegrounds are being added at some point.
PVP is getting attention despite the amount of comments that suggest otherwise.
And knowing ZOS I am sure you will be free to duel wherever you like so you will have plenty of opportunities to be an annoyance.
if dueling has to come, please let it be in an instanced arena so we don't have the eyesore right outside Elden Rooot/Vulkhel Guard/Daggerfall gates/Davon's Watch
Either that or make dueling a crime with a bounty so they'll have to find somewhere where there's no NPC's that can witness it0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Really? Ever looked at Tg or Db DLCs? try finishing those DLc questlines without ever pickpocketing or killing innocents.
IIRC some of the houses in stonefalls content now are red-locked so breaking in for the quaest would trigger bounty etc if someone was nearby - like say for instance PCs who know that is a quest point.
No matter how many layers of sheep's clothing people want to throw around it, the ability to PVP ambush PVErs who never intend to PVP for easy pickin's, turning the entire world to one gigantic ambush in waiting never let you guard down and relax or you are DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD (having fun yet?) is likely not coming to ESO.
They don't force you to suck and get caught.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
Really ? I'm gobsmacked. Oh well...you found one lol
Excellent
! PM me if you ever launch a thread calling for it and I'll come along and campaign for it. While I have zero interest in PvP I have no objection to it whatsoever just so long as it isn't in PvE areas. It could really enhance small-scale PvP if properly implemented with fair competition between criminals and enforcers who were both committed to PvP. 1 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
See my post on the last page about why it makes 0 sense to have the justice system as a part of cyrodiil, and it DOES make sense to have it in PVE areas.1 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Yes you can. We have two complete DLCs specifically focused on breaking the law. We have skill lines focused on breaking the law.I love the flawed logic of those on here saying that PvP 'justice system' would be fair because "if you're breaking the law you deserve to be hunted down and executed" and yet, ZOS just releases TWO DLCs that force players to break the law... so people are paying to play content and yet you have players here saying that it would be OK to disrupt the content they paid to play just so they could get their kicks. You know just like the gankers in Cyrodiil, you'd have these same players camping out in TG and DB areas griefing other players... although with the 'justice system' it wouldn't be griefing now would it... and that is EXACTLY WHY ZOS will never implement it in this game, specially because of those type of people.
ZOS doesn't force you to get caught.
ZOS also doesn't force people to:
1. Troll
2. Stalk
3. Bully
4. Camp
5. Game the system with friends
6. Use exploits
7. Grief
...etc. But people still do it.
Again, you and others like you assume that such a system would somehow not be abused. One trip to Cyrodil is enough to convince anyone that would not be the case. They can't keep that crap from happening in a designated PvP zone. Imagine the crap that would happen in PvE zone. Imagine someone trying to complete DB or TG content, but can't because some ******* is following them around just waiting for them to break the law?
A PvP justice system is just begging to be abused. You'd have to be pretty naive to think otherwise. That's why it wasn't and won't be implemented.
again, they wouldn't make it so that if you get a 29 gold bounty for failing a pickpocket now some player can gank you, it'd be a much higher bounty, if 1000g is too low, make it 2000g, whatever, it'd be a high threshhold that basically nobody would ever get "accidentally" through normal play, but they'd be a willing criminal that isn't paying off their bounty.
Why are you people so worried about it? I hate being ganked but I'm not worried about it one bit because I don't accumulate huge bounties on myself.1 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you acutally read the posts made by the people who would like the pvp justice implemented, no one is asking that you be flagged for pvp as soon as you commit a crime. You would only be flagged for pvp enforcers if you let your bounty get high enough.
I have been doing the thieves guild content on my level 30 character. I am admittedly the worst pickpocket in Tamriel. I fail about 90% of the time. Even when its green and says 85% chance- nope busted. Even so my bounty hasn't gotten higher then about 550 before I clear it. How many players are running around with bounties higher then 1000 gold? I haven't started the dark brotherhood quests yet so I cant comment on those or the bounties for getting caught. If its very common to get 1000+ bounties attempting to do that content in a stealthy manner then they could raise the flag limit higher.
To me the thieves and murderers are getting off way to easy right now. There should be greater consequences to openly murdering npcs in the game. Way more then just losing some gold.DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault3 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...
You can't force players to break the law.
Really? Ever looked at Tg or Db DLCs? try finishing those DLc questlines without ever pickpocketing or killing innocents.
IIRC some of the houses in stonefalls content now are red-locked so breaking in for the quaest would trigger bounty etc if someone was nearby - like say for instance PCs who know that is a quest point.
No matter how many layers of sheep's clothing people want to throw around it, the ability to PVP ambush PVErs who never intend to PVP for easy pickin's, turning the entire world to one gigantic ambush in waiting never let you guard down and relax or you are DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD (having fun yet?) is likely not coming to ESO.
They don't force you to suck and get caught.
Well, like many aspects of the game, perfection doesnt always come forth in an instant.
Also, in some of those quests, there is definitely the ability for other PCs to influence movement of guards for instance changing the getting caught dynamic.
If you maybe had more experience with those elements you could possibly see what i am referring to.
But thanks for informative post.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saying negative things to those with concerns is never going to get this second installment going . It just solidifies their disapproval ... If you really want to see any form of this in the future , I'd drop the whole negativity act . Telling PvE players they suck or are just big babies is not only lame (it's a game for one) , but it also divides everyone up .
5 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
See my post on the last page about why it makes 0 sense to have the justice system as a part of cyrodiil, and it DOES make sense to have it in PVE areas.
In only makes sense to have it part of PvE if that PvE zone was in fact a PvP zone....which it isn't.
That's the problem right there. Trying to make a PvE zone into a PvP zone.
Hence the PvE players saying ....NO!
Now if there was PvP and PvE versions of the 1-50 zones you might have a case.
But there isn't. So the closest you can get is putting the PvP aspects into PvP zones
If that cant be made to work. Then its a fail. Hence ZOS statement on the matter.
Pick pocket tel var stones in imperial city ?
Get bounty reward + tel var stash ?
Somehow that doesn't sound as good as the 1-50 zones ?
ie you can have protected items (cant steal) and unprotected items (can steal) from players.Edited by Rune_Relic on June 12, 2016 3:46PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
See my post on the last page about why it makes 0 sense to have the justice system as a part of cyrodiil, and it DOES make sense to have it in PVE areas.
In only makes sense to have it part of PvE if that PvE zone was in fact a PvP zone....which it isn't.
That's the problem right there. Trying to make a PvE zone into a PvP zone.
Hence the PvE players saying ....NO!
Now if there was PvP and PvE versions of the 1-50 zones you might have a case.
But there isn't. So the closest you can get is putting the PvP aspects into PvP zones
If that cant be made to work. Then its a fail. Hence ZOS statement on the matter.
Pick pocket tel var stones in imperial city ?
Get bounty reward + tel var stash ?
Somehow that doesn't sound as good as the 1-50 zones ?
ie you can have protected items (cant steal) and unprotected items (can steal) from players.
Lol if this does not provoke griefing, I don't know what does.
Face it: people who keep saying "stick your PvP Justice into Cyrodill and IC" have no idea what they are talking about.
And no, stealing from other players is never a good idea.1 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They could at least finish the PvE side of the justice system and create a "enforcer/bounty hunter guild" with dailies to catch NPC thieves (and potentially a world skill line focusing on that).1 -
Zaldan✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
and if u wanna PVE go to the PVP place lol0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
If it could be toggled, who cares? Copy the pvp system of SWG. You could flag yourself a certain way, and once set to that flag you'd need to commit to it for 15 minutes or dead (to avoid people quitting prematurely). This would let pvp thieves get their fun, and pve thieves have theirs.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
See my post on the last page about why it makes 0 sense to have the justice system as a part of cyrodiil, and it DOES make sense to have it in PVE areas.
In only makes sense to have it part of PvE if that PvE zone was in fact a PvP zone....which it isn't.
That's the problem right there. Trying to make a PvE zone into a PvP zone.
Hence the PvE players saying ....NO!
Now if there was PvP and PvE versions of the 1-50 zones you might have a case.
But there isn't. So the closest you can get is putting the PvP aspects into PvP zones
If that cant be made to work. Then its a fail. Hence ZOS statement on the matter.
Pick pocket tel var stones in imperial city ?
Get bounty reward + tel var stash ?
Somehow that doesn't sound as good as the 1-50 zones ?
ie you can have protected items (cant steal) and unprotected items (can steal) from players.
Lol if this does not provoke griefing, I don't know what does.
Face it: people who keep saying "stick your PvP Justice into Cyrodill and IC" have no idea what they are talking about.
And no, stealing from other players is never a good idea.
So what the hell is the tel var system ?
Am I playing a different game to everyone else
lol
Edited by Rune_Relic on June 12, 2016 4:36PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »If it could be toggled, who cares? Copy the pvp system of SWG. You could flag yourself a certain way, and once set to that flag you'd need to commit to it for 15 minutes or dead (to avoid people quitting prematurely). This would let pvp thieves get their fun, and pve thieves have theirs.
Yeah, the flagging system in SWG was pretty good. For those who don't know it:
SWG originally had a three tier flagging system: neutral (PvP flag off), covert (PvP flag off until you attacked an opposing faction NPC) and overt (PvP flag on). Covert also had the possibility of patrols stopping you for identification and/or search for contraband.Roehamad_Ali wrote: »
I'm not sure but it would be something to make the justice system feel more complete. Currently it's more of crime system than justice system...1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »If it could be toggled, who cares? Copy the pvp system of SWG. You could flag yourself a certain way, and once set to that flag you'd need to commit to it for 15 minutes or dead (to avoid people quitting prematurely). This would let pvp thieves get their fun, and pve thieves have theirs.
Yeah, the flagging system in SWG was pretty good. For those who don't know it:
SWG originally had a three tier flagging system: neutral (PvP flag off), covert (PvP flag off until you attacked an opposing faction NPC) and overt (PvP flag on). Covert also had the possibility of patrols stopping you for identification and/or search for contraband.Roehamad_Ali wrote: »
I'm not sure but it would be something to make the justice system feel more complete. Currently it's more of crime system than justice system...
SWG had the best open world PvP in its day . It didn't effect those that didn't want to participate .3 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Just this man its such a simple fixed .If anything it doesn't even have to be in 1-50 zone make it only imply in Silver and Gold zone low level players can't go their and only vets can if your in those zones you know how to play your character by now and can defend yourself. This way low level players won't be griefed (which they wouldn't be anyway )and allow the PvP justice system to be implemented.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »If you acutally read the posts made by the people who would like the pvp justice implemented, no one is asking that you be flagged for pvp as soon as you commit a crime. You would only be flagged for pvp enforcers if you let your bounty get high enough.
I have been doing the thieves guild content on my level 30 character. I am admittedly the worst pickpocket in Tamriel. I fail about 90% of the time. Even when its green and says 85% chance- nope busted. Even so my bounty hasn't gotten higher then about 550 before I clear it. How many players are running around with bounties higher then 1000 gold? I haven't started the dark brotherhood quests yet so I cant comment on those or the bounties for getting caught. If its very common to get 1000+ bounties attempting to do that content in a stealthy manner then they could raise the flag limit higher.
To me the thieves and murderers are getting off way to easy right now. There should be greater consequences to openly murdering npcs in the game. Way more then just losing some gold.0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What are you talking about no one is stealing stones from your their looting your corpse that's completely different. Thieves don't kill people their not murders that's the Dark Brotherhood so its completely different.Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.
Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.
I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.
There was nothing stopping them from having the justice system 100% functional in the pvp zones.
ZOS blanket decided it wouldn't be applied anyway.
That's not knocking you or your thoughts by the way.
PvE zones at the end fo the day are player vs NPC.
PvP zones obviously aren't...unless its 2am and the maps one colour.
PLus ZOS wanted everyone ot do other things than have open warfare in an open warfare game anyway.
See my post on the last page about why it makes 0 sense to have the justice system as a part of cyrodiil, and it DOES make sense to have it in PVE areas.
In only makes sense to have it part of PvE if that PvE zone was in fact a PvP zone....which it isn't.
That's the problem right there. Trying to make a PvE zone into a PvP zone.
Hence the PvE players saying ....NO!
Now if there was PvP and PvE versions of the 1-50 zones you might have a case.
But there isn't. So the closest you can get is putting the PvP aspects into PvP zones
If that cant be made to work. Then its a fail. Hence ZOS statement on the matter.
Pick pocket tel var stones in imperial city ?
Get bounty reward + tel var stash ?
Somehow that doesn't sound as good as the 1-50 zones ?
ie you can have protected items (cant steal) and unprotected items (can steal) from players.
Lol if this does not provoke griefing, I don't know what does.
Face it: people who keep saying "stick your PvP Justice into Cyrodill and IC" have no idea what they are talking about.
And no, stealing from other players is never a good idea.
So what the hell is the tel var system ?
Am I playing a different game to everyone else
lol2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »My i ask what are you on? Yolo generation? Epeens?
Take for example, the recent launch of Black Desert Online. Here is an example of a great engine, excellent graphics, fun active combat, and yet the game flopped in the first month due to terrible decisions that led to horrible imbalance and masses of players leaving in droves.
Specifically, they built the game around this same sort of forced PVP mindset, where one group of players (PVE players, by far the majority in any MMO), were forced to be flagged for open world PVP whether they wanted to participate or not. Players with tons of money or time to grind had gear with 3 or 4 times the stats of average level gear and would stalk questing players and annihilate them. Why? Because that's what people do!
Literally within the first month the top 4 streamers posted videos about why they were leaving, and this was among the top 3 reasons.
Were ESO to implement such a system, it would be to cater to a very small demographic of players that want the PVP elements of the game to be forced onto the PVE elements of the game. I am saying I am glad ZOS reconsidered not making this same foolish mistake.
So much of this game is build around stealing, getting bounty, then trading off leniency items or waiting it out, in order to make gold, experience content, etc. Two whole DLC's have been built around this.
To introduce a system where getting bounty during the normal course of playing the bulk of recent content would result in you being subjected to quest hub camping and forced PVP by "guard" players in superior gear 1-shot ganking you, would be a TERRIBLE decision, regardless of how it was marketed.
Besides, this was always a "maybe" thing as far as I am aware.
Like I said if they find a compromise to make it optional for both the PVP AND PVE players, meaning you don't automatically get flagged as bait just for having a certain bounty, but only if you WANT to, as a sort of dueling option for open world, and IF they could make it forbidden in cities and trade areas so people didn't constantly make more of a mess of crafting hubs with their PVP antics, then I wouldn't be 100% against it.
It's just something I personally have zero interest in even in a perfect scenario and if forced or done badly or made exploitable or unbalancing, it destroys games.
It would honestly be an even smaller demographic than that of the PvP Community. Much like Gankers make up a small portion of the PvP Community its likely those that would have been more than a casual involvement with the Justice System PvP would have been a very small group of players capitalizing on PvEers committing crimes.
The sad truth is that even with such a small portion of the PvP playerbase actively participating in it it would still garner a great deal of animosity between the PvP and PvE community. And we have more than enough of that going around as it is.
You act like people just accidentally rack up 1000g bounties in normal play.
Doesn't the deaths from Godmode guards already impede your gameplay if you accidentally get that high of a bounty?
Ive never seen ZOS talk about how much gold or bounty it would take to instigate PvP in the Justice System so I dont know where you got that absurd idea that 1k gold is that bench mark for it. All Ive seen are people who cant accept that something is no longer on the table for development throwing around poorly thought out ideas of how it could work. And it does not take 1k gold to rack up the third tier of Bounty in the Justice System.
The guards arent going to camp The Outlaw Refuges or troll/grief individuals. Just because youre not bright enough or imaginative enough to see how things can go wrong with a Justice System PvP doesnt mean its not possible. And apparently the Devs have the same concerns that I and others have. That players will find ways to exploit the system and cause harm.
Case Closed regardless of how you feel about it.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Just this man its such a simple fixed .If anything it doesn't even have to be in 1-50 zone make it only imply in Silver and Gold zone low level players can't go their and only vets can if your in those zones you know how to play your character by now and can defend yourself. This way low level players won't be griefed (which they wouldn't be anyway )and allow the PvP justice system to be implemented.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »If you acutally read the posts made by the people who would like the pvp justice implemented, no one is asking that you be flagged for pvp as soon as you commit a crime. You would only be flagged for pvp enforcers if you let your bounty get high enough.
I have been doing the thieves guild content on my level 30 character. I am admittedly the worst pickpocket in Tamriel. I fail about 90% of the time. Even when its green and says 85% chance- nope busted. Even so my bounty hasn't gotten higher then about 550 before I clear it. How many players are running around with bounties higher then 1000 gold? I haven't started the dark brotherhood quests yet so I cant comment on those or the bounties for getting caught. If its very common to get 1000+ bounties attempting to do that content in a stealthy manner then they could raise the flag limit higher.
To me the thieves and murderers are getting off way to easy right now. There should be greater consequences to openly murdering npcs in the game. Way more then just losing some gold.
This is actually not a bad idea at all - those zones are anyway not that populated and could be resurrected with it. But there is a change to be made to stealth mode in this case - same faction should no longer see their comrades in stealth - they would eventually be the enemy now and would have to be treated as such - and no longer be able to see their comrades in stealth.Edited by Lysette on June 12, 2016 5:49PM1 -
teladoy✭✭✭✭✭They realize long time ago that this game is *** up in pvp and that actually they do more money with pve and new stories.
Pvp is there, it will stay as it is but i don't believe we will see improvements of any kind soon, at least this year for sure.0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's not the case at all what everyone posted their was that you have 95% of the dam game to yourself and we have our 5% that's broken.That's why we say you shouldn't have a PVE campaign since we don't have a 100% PVP world you shouldn't have our 5%.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
That's not the case at all what everyone posted their was that you have 95% of the dam game to yourself and we have our 5% that's broken.That's why we say you shouldn't have a PVE campaign since we don't have a 100% PVP world you shouldn't have our 5%.paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »
Good luck finding a PvPer who would agree to that. I've been arguing the same point in countless threads and indicated a willingness to support it, but I haven't found any PvPer yet who agrees to it. They seem to want to limit it so they only need to take on inexperienced PvEers for some reason. Even those who put up a reasonable argument against having it in Cyrodiil don't respond to the idea of having it in Imperial City or any other yet to be implemented PvP area such as one specifically designed for it.
I would think that it has less to do with wanting to take on "inexperienced pve players" and more to do with the current state of cyrodiil. Cyrodill has terrible and lag and latency problems. ZOS even removed deer and torch bugs to try to help performance so I don't see them adding anything to Cyrodiil.
One of the threads about a separate instance for pve only Cyrodiil had one poster complaining about how doing so would totally ruin Cyrodiil for the pvp players. Even after it was pointed out that people who aren't interested in pvp who do want the skyshards/books/quests in Cyrodiil who go there in groups aren't contributing anything to the pvp campaigns, and in fact might be harming the pvp campaigns because they do nothing to help any alliance while they are there, but they do count towards the population cap and could be keeping out players who do want to pvp, the poster kept insisting that it would hurt pvp. Eventually they posted that their concern was not having players to kill. All the players who go there for the shards and books who have no interest in pvp wouldn't be there to be ganked by them and their friends. Instead of seeing it as the hard core pvp'ers would have a clear playing field without any people who were there for the pve elements, they saw it as no one would be around for them to kill.
So you have the childish view that if someone else has something that works, and you have something that doesnt. The only answer is to take the working portion of a system from them?
LMAO.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2
This discussion has been closed.