Ninglenel (DPS Dummy) Actually Removed

Grao · June 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The tinfoil hat loonies are properly represented in this thread, geez. It's a bug that got fixed and there's a good chance target dummies will be available once player housing arrives. It's not like this bugged NPC was the only place where you could test your rotations and DPS anyway.

There is a good chance that in 6 months they will make available a item we've been asking for since Beta and that is extremely easy to script, so they could have done it ages ago? The saying is right I guess, Hope really is the last one to die, eh?

They don't want us testing our abilities, it is the only possible justification for this ridiculous decision and the constant excuses not to release target dummies. And unless you can convince a tank and a healer friends of your to stand around in a dungeon to let you test your DPS and work on your rotation, yes, this bugged NPC was the only realistic way of working on DPS tests.

Lava_Croft · June 2016

You can get rid of the tinfoil hat, you're just making yourself look silly.

GnGEmpire · June 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can get rid of the tinfoil hat, you're just making yourself look silly.

Actually you're making yourself look silly since you don't seem to grasp the situation. This "bugged" NPC was hurting literally no one, was doing a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, and the testing of ability rotations and DPS on this NPC was BY FAR the best we had available as it allowed to do so solo instead of dragging a tank or tank+healer to tank blood spawn which dies after less than a minute and requires to reset the dungeon and clear the trash up until that boss in order to get another ~45 seconds of testing.

Read the comments here and on Deltias thread and you'll see that there's pretty much a unanimous agreement on this subject, way more agreement on any other debate that I have ever seen on these forums. That says something.

Eas007 · June 2016

At least give us some dummies in a training yard somewhere...

Divinius · June 2016

Grao wrote: »

They don't want us testing our abilities, it is the only possible justification for this ridiculous decision and the constant excuses not to release target dummies.

Pretty much this.

Coding in a test dummy is literally so simple, they already did it by accident!

Plus, there are already non-functional dummies sitting in every Fighter's Guild in the game. All they need to do is add Ninglenel's behavior onto those and they'd be done. It would be a stupidly simple thing to add.

The only conceivable reason they haven't done it yet is that they don't want us to have them for some inexplicable reason.

damarky · June 2016

We just want Ninglenel back till the dps dummies come.

Whats the use of getting dps dummies if the community has already left the game months before the dps dummies come out
because we don't have a place to practice rotation and see what our dps is like?

I don't want dummies in 3 months time. If they think we will forget about Ninglenel being taken away. Than introduce dummies in 3 months later is going to keep us happy they are so wrong.

If Zos do us a favour by returning Ninglenel we will do them a favour when they try and sell us dps dummies.

I won't be complaining if Ninglenel gets taken away when we have dps dummies to buy. I have a choice at that point. Top job happy player.

Zo don't make us wait months to do another dps check that model just won't work. Do the right thing and bring back Ninglenel and watch the community support you when you ask us to buy dps dummies when they are ready and tested.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys ready to give us a answer yet?

Our request is fair don't you think Gina and Jessica?

SteveCampsOut · June 2016

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can get rid of the tinfoil hat, you're just making yourself look silly.

Actually you're making yourself look silly since you don't seem to grasp the situation. This "bugged" NPC was hurting literally no one, was doing a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, and the testing of ability rotations and DPS on this NPC was BY FAR the best we had available as it allowed to do so solo instead of dragging a tank or tank+healer to tank blood spawn which dies after less than a minute and requires to reset the dungeon and clear the trash up until that boss in order to get another ~45 seconds of testing.

Read the comments here and on Deltias thread and you'll see that there's pretty much a unanimous agreement on this subject, way more agreement on any other debate that I have ever seen on these forums. That says something.

Just because a bug, an yes, an immortal NPC that can be bashed on forever is BUGGED, doesn't hurt anyone, that doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed. I used to have the FABULOUS HOLE in Grahtwood where I could just walk off the game map out into the matrix with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Did I whine and moan when they closed the hole? No I did not, because I knew it wasn't supposed to be there. Same thing goes for immortal NPC's. You KNOW they don't belong in the game so stop whining about it already!

SienneYviete · June 2016

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can get rid of the tinfoil hat, you're just making yourself look silly.

Actually you're making yourself look silly since you don't seem to grasp the situation. This "bugged" NPC was hurting literally no one, was doing a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, and the testing of ability rotations and DPS on this NPC was BY FAR the best we had available as it allowed to do so solo instead of dragging a tank or tank+healer to tank blood spawn which dies after less than a minute and requires to reset the dungeon and clear the trash up until that boss in order to get another ~45 seconds of testing.

Read the comments here and on Deltias thread and you'll see that there's pretty much a unanimous agreement on this subject, way more agreement on any other debate that I have ever seen on these forums. That says something.

Just because a bug, an yes, an immortal NPC that can be bashed on forever is BUGGED, doesn't hurt anyone, that doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed. I used to have the FABULOUS HOLE in Grahtwood where I could just walk off the game map out into the matrix with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Did I whine and moan when they closed the hole? No I did not, because I knew it wasn't supposed to be there. Same thing goes for immortal NPC's. You KNOW they don't belong in the game so stop whining about it already!

How does your fabulous black hole

have anything to do with an npc training dummy? If an immortal npc doesn't belong in the game why tf are there immortal guards in the game?

Just because this item does not affect you why is it that you would immediately think that it should not be, this is an extremely useful tool for end game raiding and should never have been removed compared to a hole in a map that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever for anyone.

Grao · June 2016

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can get rid of the tinfoil hat, you're just making yourself look silly.

Actually you're making yourself look silly since you don't seem to grasp the situation. This "bugged" NPC was hurting literally no one, was doing a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people, and the testing of ability rotations and DPS on this NPC was BY FAR the best we had available as it allowed to do so solo instead of dragging a tank or tank+healer to tank blood spawn which dies after less than a minute and requires to reset the dungeon and clear the trash up until that boss in order to get another ~45 seconds of testing.

Read the comments here and on Deltias thread and you'll see that there's pretty much a unanimous agreement on this subject, way more agreement on any other debate that I have ever seen on these forums. That says something.

Just because a bug, an yes, an immortal NPC that can be bashed on forever is BUGGED, doesn't hurt anyone, that doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed. I used to have the FABULOUS HOLE in Grahtwood where I could just walk off the game map out into the matrix with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Did I whine and moan when they closed the hole? No I did not, because I knew it wasn't supposed to be there. Same thing goes for immortal NPC's. You KNOW they don't belong in the game so stop whining about it already!

Actually you are wrong, very wrong. Going under the terrain grants you access to several areas of the game to which you are not supposed to have access to, in WoW going under the terrain intentionally and accessing certain places, like the administrator island, was actually a ban worthy offense. Besides, a hole in the terrain is a bug players that fell into would obviously report, it is an annoyance.

Who exactly was Niglenel hurting or even annoying? And if a bug so easily created a target dummy, why hasn't Zenimax released target dummies in this past two years of game? We've been asking for them since Beta and they have been promising they'd do it since beta. Clearly they don't want target dummies, which means all the promises are more lies.

Humatiel · June 2016

I don't know why you all expect anything from ZoS, I would pay more for a test dummy then an entire DLC but I realize it's not going to happen. Expect nothing then assume the worst and you will always be right as far as they are concerned.

Argruna · June 2016

I would love to see him back just to see the posts of 'NINGLENEL ONE SHOT ME'. Yes Z, bring him back and make him one shot anyone who thinks they can beat him up. I use random guards as dummies since you can't kill them. Find one of the outskirts of town, attack, try out a build that takes into account blocking/dodging/cc breaking/healing and then tweaked from there. Though I guess the whole point of this thing is more 'rotation dps, look at my deeps' then getting a more resource aware build.

SienneYviete · June 2016

Argruna wrote: »

I would love to see him back just to see the posts of 'NINGLENEL ONE SHOT ME'. Yes Z, bring him back and make him one shot anyone who thinks they can beat him up. I use random guards as dummies since you can't kill them. Find one of the outskirts of town, attack, try out a build that takes into account blocking/dodging/cc breaking/healing and then tweaked from there. Though I guess the whole point of this thing is more 'rotation dps, look at my deeps' then getting a more resource aware build.

Resources are not an issue in trials, in the new stuff bosses generally have timer windows which requires combined group dps totals to be extremely high to prevent enrages or overwhelming mechanics, they are also extremely lengthy fights not the 30 second stack and burns that have been prevalent in eso. This NPC was invaluable because it allowed us to test and make sure we as a dps were capable of pulling the high numbers over time required to beat these bosses. If I wanted to to test blocking /dodging/cc breaking/healing I would simply jump into VMSA.

icenstorm · June 2016

Since they ignoring this thread anyway going to say words like *** and *** and boobs and *** and ***.

Let's see if they ignore that.

GnGEmpire · June 2016

I don't think ZOS have ever ignored such a topic for so long, especially one that they so clearly *** up on.

damarky · June 2016

what a joke they dont give a *** ZOS you blow

deepseamk20b14_ESO · June 2016

I actually wish they had some dummys we could fight to test builds and such. Many other MMO's have them and though I am no programmer, I feel as if its REALLY easy to put one in the game. I first heard of this ninglenel dude in a deltia video. I think he actually started a petition to keep it in the game lol.

I mean, adding a dummy would cause NO negative impact what so ever. PvPers could use it. PvEers could use it. RP people wouldn't have an issue with it since training dummies are a thing. There is literally no reason not to have these in the game, especially when so many people have asked for them over the last 2 years. I really hope ZoS reconsiders.

peniku8 · June 2016

Why is everybody crying for dps test dummies when they're literally everywhere

Ok lemme help you: Go to Abah's Landing and follow the path from the first Wayshrine until you're at the stairs. There is a guard which walks up and down the stairs there. It won't hit you very hard, it won't stun you and it won't run around or do anything, it'll just stand there and you can test your dps until you run out of resources. Oh, it oneshots you after about a minute but that was more than enough for me to evaluate many different set, weapon, skill and trait combinations.
If you block cancel your skills you can even test on normal guards without getting CCd.
Remember to bring soulgems ;D

Teronell · June 2016

I honestly wonder how many people actually knew about this npc.

Was the information only shared between top guilds? Were there threads informimg the community prior to his impending doom?

Slayyer-AUS · June 2016

Zos are destroying this game more and more. No wonder why the player base on NA pc server is dead.

damarky · June 2016

I heard that they are talking about bringing in DPS dummys. But it wont be the next DLC it may be the next one. So we
have like over 6 months to wait at least. I am thinking that its not even on there top 10 things to do. Cause they really dont get it. I asked my PVE guild in guild chat if some one could help me do a couple of dps checks and got no one interested to going out of there way to help me. I dont blame them at all. There is so many things to do in the game that they would rather
do other things. I finally got some 2 guys to help me and I felt so bad for wasting 15 minutes of their time. I didnt even ask to do another check to compare sets and thought I would try my luck a few hours later so not to waste more of there time.

Long story short I could of done so much testing in the time it took to find some guys to help me do a single bloodspawn dps check. IF Ninglenel was still around I would of been able to test by my self at least 30 times.

This is so disapointing for all those that care about testing dps rotations etc. I am so pissed off right now. What makes it worse is that they havent bothered to pop in here and say get what the plan is or whether its possible to roll back the Ninglenel changes.

Really starting to think about what else is out there now. Come on ZOS give us a update on this.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

GnGEmpire · June 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So, no one's ever going to bother dignifying us with a response as to why even a second of development time was spent on removing Ninglenel?

Shazgob · June 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

I can't sit idly by and accept that this forum hasn't been touched in 4 days by anyone, dev or player. How is it that the development team can find time to stealth remove things like this, leave GLARING bugs that are slowly breaking your end game community, and then leave dev replies on other topics that are basically either useless to anything productive or doesn't cover anything, you know, serious?

I look around the forums and see all these replies on random topics like 'Oh who is the best NA player' or 'No shaming/naming, wouldn't want to hurt exploiters feelings' from the developers, but they don't have the courtesy to reply to something that has a cumulative what, 18 pages or so of replies/requests about it? How many people have to ask and be ignored before one of you can at least get the backbone to say 'We don't want you to have it.'

Also, you realize that every MMO out there has a free to use target dummy right? Do you guys actually believe that being a detriment to a raid team because you have no way to test new sets/rotations outside of an actual scenario is fun? I don't enjoy trying out x set and having to do subpar damage because I'm trying, IN a raid btw, to learn what I SHOULD be able to learn on my own time and execute properly in practice.

This is one of the worst things your team has done in my opinion and I won't let this sleep. I tell everyone who will listen what happened and why it's garbage. So, here we are again, maybe this time we'll get a reply. I won't hold my breath out of fear of dying, and the worst part, is when a reply comes it won't amount to anything. I'm just waiting for a target dummy to be introduced in the crown store so I can laugh. Just watch, it will happen.

Emma_Overload · June 2016

Shazgob wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

I can't sit idly by and accept that this forum hasn't been touched in 4 days by anyone, dev or player. How is it that the development team can find time to stealth remove things like this, leave GLARING bugs that are slowly breaking your end game community, and then leave dev replies on other topics that are basically either useless to anything productive or doesn't cover anything, you know, serious?

I look around the forums and see all these replies on random topics like 'Oh who is the best NA player' or 'No shaming/naming, wouldn't want to hurt exploiters feelings' from the developers, but they don't have the courtesy to reply to something that has a cumulative what, 18 pages or so of replies/requests about it? How many people have to ask and be ignored before one of you can at least get the backbone to say 'We don't want you to have it.'

Also, you realize that every MMO out there has a free to use target dummy right? Do you guys actually believe that being a detriment to a raid team because you have no way to test new sets/rotations outside of an actual scenario is fun? I don't enjoy trying out x set and having to do subpar damage because I'm trying, IN a raid btw, to learn what I SHOULD be able to learn on my own time and execute properly in practice.

This is one of the worst things your team has done in my opinion and I won't let this sleep. I tell everyone who will listen what happened and why it's garbage. So, here we are again, maybe this time we'll get a reply. I won't hold my breath out of fear of dying, and the worst part, is when a reply comes it won't amount to anything. I'm just waiting for a target dummy to be introduced in the crown store so I can laugh. Just watch, it will happen.

Wrobel was asked point blank about DPS dummies a while back on ESO Live, and you know what his answer was? Nothing. He NEVER answered the question, but instead rambled on for 5 minutes about ZOS internal testing dummies. It was like listening to a politician being interviewed... he was simply incapable of giving a straight answer!

I have zero hope of ever seeing these dummies in the game, but like you, I will continue to ask for them until the servers shut down.

daemonios · June 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Shazgob wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

I can't sit idly by and accept that this forum hasn't been touched in 4 days by anyone, dev or player. How is it that the development team can find time to stealth remove things like this, leave GLARING bugs that are slowly breaking your end game community, and then leave dev replies on other topics that are basically either useless to anything productive or doesn't cover anything, you know, serious?

I look around the forums and see all these replies on random topics like 'Oh who is the best NA player' or 'No shaming/naming, wouldn't want to hurt exploiters feelings' from the developers, but they don't have the courtesy to reply to something that has a cumulative what, 18 pages or so of replies/requests about it? How many people have to ask and be ignored before one of you can at least get the backbone to say 'We don't want you to have it.'

Also, you realize that every MMO out there has a free to use target dummy right? Do you guys actually believe that being a detriment to a raid team because you have no way to test new sets/rotations outside of an actual scenario is fun? I don't enjoy trying out x set and having to do subpar damage because I'm trying, IN a raid btw, to learn what I SHOULD be able to learn on my own time and execute properly in practice.

This is one of the worst things your team has done in my opinion and I won't let this sleep. I tell everyone who will listen what happened and why it's garbage. So, here we are again, maybe this time we'll get a reply. I won't hold my breath out of fear of dying, and the worst part, is when a reply comes it won't amount to anything. I'm just waiting for a target dummy to be introduced in the crown store so I can laugh. Just watch, it will happen.

Wrobel was asked point blank about DPS dummies a while back on ESO Live, and you know what his answer was? Nothing. He NEVER answered the question, but instead rambled on for 5 minutes about ZOS internal testing dummies. It was like listening to a politician being interviewed... he was simply incapable of giving a straight answer!

I have zero hope of ever seeing these dummies in the game, but like you, I will continue to ask for them until the servers shut down.

I didn't catch that question, but then again I kind of zone out whenever Wrobel is talking in order to keep reasonable blood pressure levels. If true, I fear it points towards a possible crown purchase, which is rubbish IMO.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · June 2016

ZOS,

Put Training Dummies in the Crown store, players buy, you make money..

You could make one an Assistant for us..so we can test anywhere.

all done.

Hope you Take the Advice.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Kalante · June 2016

the fact that ppl are asking to pay for a dummy is disgusting.

Grao · June 2016

@Shazgob , shhhhh...

Don't you understand ZOS is hoping we will forget this matter entirely?

A target dummy could have been released easily with the game two years ago, it is simply a NPC that doesn't move, doesn't attack back and doesn't die... All you need to do is strip a normal NPC of those algorithms, it really isn't hard and ZOS even has the model in game already for target dummies...

The only reason they haven't released dummies and have removed this bugged NPC is because they don't want us testing DPS and testing our abilities efficiently. I mean, even without dummies we already find so many damn bugs with our characters, can you imagine how many new bugs we'd find thanks to dummies? They don't want that...

Grao · June 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Shazgob wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

I can't sit idly by and accept that this forum hasn't been touched in 4 days by anyone, dev or player. How is it that the development team can find time to stealth remove things like this, leave GLARING bugs that are slowly breaking your end game community, and then leave dev replies on other topics that are basically either useless to anything productive or doesn't cover anything, you know, serious?

I look around the forums and see all these replies on random topics like 'Oh who is the best NA player' or 'No shaming/naming, wouldn't want to hurt exploiters feelings' from the developers, but they don't have the courtesy to reply to something that has a cumulative what, 18 pages or so of replies/requests about it? How many people have to ask and be ignored before one of you can at least get the backbone to say 'We don't want you to have it.'

Also, you realize that every MMO out there has a free to use target dummy right? Do you guys actually believe that being a detriment to a raid team because you have no way to test new sets/rotations outside of an actual scenario is fun? I don't enjoy trying out x set and having to do subpar damage because I'm trying, IN a raid btw, to learn what I SHOULD be able to learn on my own time and execute properly in practice.

This is one of the worst things your team has done in my opinion and I won't let this sleep. I tell everyone who will listen what happened and why it's garbage. So, here we are again, maybe this time we'll get a reply. I won't hold my breath out of fear of dying, and the worst part, is when a reply comes it won't amount to anything. I'm just waiting for a target dummy to be introduced in the crown store so I can laugh. Just watch, it will happen.

Wrobel was asked point blank about DPS dummies a while back on ESO Live, and you know what his answer was? Nothing. He NEVER answered the question, but instead rambled on for 5 minutes about ZOS internal testing dummies. It was like listening to a politician being interviewed... he was simply incapable of giving a straight answer!

I have zero hope of ever seeing these dummies in the game, but like you, I will continue to ask for them until the servers shut down.

Unfortunately that isn't saying a lot... @Wrobel never answers the hard questions directly and worse, he has the eloquence of a melon, so he can't even disguise well when he is dodging a question...

GnGEmpire · June 2016

Zenimax, your carelessness is despicable.

Shazgob · June 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

Still no answer at all, I once again see you answering other threads or telling people how they are screwing up on forums by posting things they shouldn't be, but you know what, at least they are posting! It's more than we can get from you guys. So, care to elaborate on the reason for removing a beloved utility by the community while you continue to maim the rest of the game and make the players hate basically everything they once loved about ESO?

We're still waiting.