ZOS... Is CP really account based ? Then stop punishing Alts please !

Rune_Relic · June 2016

I think a few are missing the point.
Is the system character based or account based ?
Not whether you think the system should be character based.

If its account based....then as long as you have 1x Vet...then CP should progress no matter what character you play as its account based and not character based.

As soon as you say...this character doesnt earn CP (even as a veteran).....then it character based and not account based.

Enlightenment has a limit.
Its designed for short term players with limited hours so they dont get left behind.
But thanks for those suggestion.
I will try to make more use of that.

The problem is not the hours I Put in.
The problem is I am not rewarded for the hours I put in as a veteran using 1-50 alts.

@runs thanks for the calcs.

Khenarthi · June 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

...yet you want a quicker method.
There's just too much contradiction here to bother arguing. Choices have consequences. If wasting extra time on low level content isn't helping you learn to play, you probably shouldn't be getting rewarded for it.

If you spend 10 extra hours studying and you get an F, you're not studying right. The solution isn't to give you a piece of an A for every hour you studied. The solution is to prioritize, focus, and nail the *** test.

I don't think the OP wants a quicker method, or to optimise gains. If they're like me, they just want to enjoy the content at their own pace without feeling they're wasting CP time.

But yes, a compromise is needed and it seems to be pretty established the CP is gained on veteran characters only, so it falls to each player to find their own solution.

Acrolas · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I think a few are missing the point.
Is the system character based or account based ?

Both. It's a hybrid currency system that experienced characters earn and all characters can spend.

It doesn't have to be strictly character or strictly account. I know they don't teach this anymore, but the world has gray areas. Lots of them.

MasterSpatula · June 2016

Isn't this exactly why Enlightenment exists?

DurzoBlint13 · June 2016

I guess I was wrong. NEVER trust anything you read on a forum. ever

Rune_Relic · June 2016

4. The system shouldn’t separate players more.

This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/143784/champion-system-clarification/p1

Autolycus · June 2016

The key to this suggestion is this:

Rune_Relic wrote: »

...once you have reached Veteran level on at least one character on your account.

So long as this stipulation holds true, there does not appear to be a solid case against this suggestion. It could work out well.

That being said, the amount of CP you're earning on your alt from 1-49 is almost negligible. In the amount of time it takes to level 1-49 (assuming the fastest method) is roughly 10 hours. Now, assuming you want to take your time, enjoy the content, and complete everything on each toon you level, you're looking at 50+ hours per toon. Think about it... 50+ hours for 5 CP. You're not playing for the CP here, and it's barely impacting your relative power on your alts anyway.

While I support the concept itself, I find it to be somewhat contradictory. If you aren't playing a veteran character, in veteran content, then you aren't a veteran, nor a champion. It seems to me that what you're asking for here is the ability to make your main character stronger and more viable for veteran content without actively working to build that character up. The more CP you have, the less CP you're going to earn on your alts with the system you suggested.

If your ultimate goal is to boost your relative power through earning CP, the most effective method is and always has been to do veteran content. This means Cadwell's Silver, Gold, Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, vet dungeons, random dailies, IC, etc. This is the content you really should be steering toward. The 1-49 content is just a tiny portion of what you can experience in this game. If you aren't taking your vet characters through these zones and participating in all of this, which is the most efficient way to earn CP, the claims of completionism and immersion kind of fall off as valid logic to supplement this suggestion.

Remember, this game was designed around the concept that the first 50 levels are just the first third of the game. Obviously, that has been expanded a great deal since then, with multiple adventure zones, daily quests & rewards, and the addition of many vet dungeons and IC, so now, those first 50 levels are even less than a third of the pve experience in ESO. I'm an altoholic too, but don't let the first alliance content keep hold of you. Experience the rest of it and your CP will flow too.

Nestor · June 2016

You get to use the Champ Points on your sub 50 characters that did not earn them......

So, every one of your sub 50 characters is rewarded for the time you spend on your champ level characters.

Yet the characters that are not doing Champ Level content you want to earn Champ Points with.

Emma_Overload · June 2016

What the OP is suggesting would create huge problems under certain scenarios. I have an alternate account that I am deliberately NOT grinding CP on, so I can keep one alt at CP1 or as close to it as possible. The purpose of this is to have a toon I can use to underlevel Vet dungeons down as low as possible. Under the OP's scheme, I would NEVER be able to level up any other toons on that account, because I would gain unwanted CP on the main toon.

Abeille · June 2016

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

OP do you even understand how Enlightenment works? I will not go in depth but Enlightenment works by taking the amount of XP you earn (especially on low levels) and giving you a bonus period of enhanced CP gain from that. The more you are on your alts= the more Enlightenment you have on your vets=the faster you can gain CP. And it stacks for up to 12 days I think, so even if you play your alts for a week and then want to play your vet, you are still going to be boosted the same as spending half of each day that you play on an alt and half on a vet
No you can not earn CP as a low level (non-vet)...and that is as it should be since the CP system is to advance your character AFTER you hit vet level. But you do earn Enlightenment, and that is how you earn CP easier
There are several older posts that go into great detail about the specifics and how exactly it works if you search for them

This isn't true. It was the initial plan, yes, but it isn't how it ended up as.

You gain 100k of enlightenment per day, regardless of playing a vet, a low level or not playing at all, which nets you 400k of champion xp 4 times faster. And that accumulates to up to 12 days (1.2kk of enlightenment, which means 4.8kk of champion xp).

clocksstoppe · June 2016

How can the power gap between low CP and high CP be huge if you get diminishing returns the more CP you put into the passives?

Also there is no champion passive that increases any of your resource pools. What the hell are you talking about?

Abeille · June 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

How can the power gap between low CP and high CP be huge if you get diminishing returns the more CP you put into the passives?

Also there is no champion passive that increases any of your resource pools. What the hell are you talking about?

Every CP on the blue constelations increase Magicka, on the green Stamina and on the red Health.

clocksstoppe · June 2016

Abeille wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

How can the power gap between low CP and high CP be huge if you get diminishing returns the more CP you put into the passives?

Also there is no champion passive that increases any of your resource pools. What the hell are you talking about?

Every CP on the blue constelations increase Magicka, on the green Stamina and on the red Health.

Ah yes, forgot about those, but the numbers OP is giving are still pulled out of his ass.

newtinmpls · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I think a few are missing the point.
Is the system character based or account based ?

Character based as much as they can, Account based as much as they have to (i.e. banks and some other things).

On one account, I have 3 vet characters; on my other one I have no one over lvl 20, never mind "vet".

If you enjoy the game, play.

Yes there will always be people more powerful, whatever. If that's going to break your fun .... then I think you have problems.

Divinius · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Besides, the way Enlightenment works, any time you spend on your sub 50 Alts is time that is added to your enlightenment on your L50 characters. That works much better than getting any points in the 1 to 50 content.

That's not actually true...

It would be, if Enlightenment worked like "resting XP" in other games, but it doesn't. You get 1 million points of Enlightenment every day, regardless of whether you are logged in or not. Every 24 hours, on the dot, you get another 1 mil Enlightenment. Even if you stayed logged in on your Vet level character 24/7, you'd still keep getting it, every day, at the same time.

Being logged off (or playing a sub-50 alt) does nothing to increase how fast you get Enlightenment.

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Enlightenment works by taking the amount of XP you earn (especially on low levels) and giving you a bonus period of enhanced CP gain from that. The more you are on your alts= the more Enlightenment you have on your vets=the faster you can gain CP.
...
No you can not earn CP as a low level (non-vet) ... But you do earn Enlightenment, and that is how you earn CP easier

And this isn't even remotely accurate. Where do you people get these ideas?

Again, being logged off (or playing a sub-50 alt) does nothing to increase how fast you get Enlightenment.

Sure, you aren't spending your Enlightenment when you are on a sub-50 alt, but that's only because you aren't getting CP either.

The argument that you are somehow getting more Enlightenment when you are logged-off or playing a sub-50 alt is invalid.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2016

I just want the 30,000 health, 50,000 magic build he mentioned. Haha

AntMan100673 · June 2016

You get 100k of enlightenment per day which will give you 400k towards CP's. Log into your vet character and use the activity finder to do a random normal dungeon, 100k bonus exp will use all your enlightenment for the day giving you some good progress on CP's. Then go play your pre-50 alt.

Nestor · June 2016

Divinius wrote: »

It would be, if Enlightenment worked like "resting XP" in other games, but it doesn't. You get 1 million points of Enlightenment every day, regardless of whether you are logged in or not. Every 24 hours, on the dot, you get another 1 mil Enlightenment. Even if you stayed logged in on your Vet level character 24/7, you'd still keep getting it, every day, at the same time.

@Divinius

My point is still valid. If your on a Sub 50 character, your not using your enlightenment, so it is building up each day. That way when you do get on your L50, you have more points you can gain at the enlightenment rate. How it accrues does not matter. If you get on your L50 each day, then you only get the daily amount as you say.

That is what I meant by "how it works"

Taleof2Cities · June 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The amount of XP required to get from level 1 to level 50 wont give you many CP so whats the point?

This is actually an argument for the OP's proposal ... since we're only talking about maybe 5 CP yielded from the Alt progression through levels 1-50. No issues with that in my opinion ... even if it was given on top of enlightenment.

On the other hand, the OPs reasoning for the change is flawed. Referring to the CP "power creep" between long-time players and new players with low CP.

In PvE this is rarely an issue ... since players are generally on the same side collaborating to complete a dungeon, quest, etc.

In PvP, it's a near non-issue as well. It's a scaled zone and assuming, here, a non-CP campaign is chosen. Sure, you have to progress to CP160, get the skill points, and flush out the skills themselves. But, we all had to do that even in the veteran rank days.

Lord_Eomer · June 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

So you do not use, that's your choice but I prefer to use and believe 99% players do..

KingYogi415 · June 2016

The CP has been fitted for cusuals,

Your enlightenment stacks up 12 times and can be grinded out in 45 mins.

You would have not survived this before orsinium.

No wonder ZOS seems to mess things up every update, look at constant nonsense they have to deal with!

Sallington · June 2016

This is exactly why I waited to hit the 501 CP cap before I started leveling a new alt.

Elsonso · June 2016

Runs wrote: »

Play your main when you have enlightenment. Play your under 50 alts when you do not.

I don't know what it means to be without Enlightenment. Despite playing almost every day since it was introduced, and leveling a character from VR 5 to VR 16 after Champion Points came out, I have never run out of Enlightenment. I can't even imagine that it is possible for me to do it.

ADarklore wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

This is my thought, too. CPs should have been for Level 50 characters ONLY.

I'm sure glad you're not in charge of this game... nothing like wanting to take OPTIONS away from players instead of offering them 'personal responsibility' by giving them CHOICES. A person doesn't HAVE TO utilize their CP, but it's nice for players like me who love to be OP for content not to have to struggle with each and every alt we create. Because I've leveled so many, it's nice to be able to steamroll 1-50 so I can graduate to Cadwell's faster and start earning CP.

Actually, from a game design perspective, it would be helpful if there were no Champion Points before level 50. The numbers and balance issues have to be a lot simpler without them. New players would fit into the world more seamlessly with experienced players that are leveling alts. The Champion Point gap would start at level 50 instead of level one, but by then the new players would be more familiar with the game. More importantly, the catchup mechanism would allow them to start narrowing the gap immediately, rather than having to wait until level 50 to start. I don't think that the "perk" of using Champion Points across all characters makes the game itself better.

rotaugen454 · June 2016

I want 10 CP for every forum post I make...

AlnilamE · June 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Play your main when you have enlightenment. Play your under 50 alts when you do not.

I don't know what it means to be without Enlightenment. Despite playing almost every day since it was introduced, and leveling a character from VR 5 to VR 16 after Champion Points came out, I have never run out of Enlightenment. I can't even imagine that it is possible for me to do it.

Interesting. Since now the game tells you your total remaining enlightenment XP, have you tried hovering over your XP bar on your character screen to see how much you have left?

Even if I don't go through my enlightenment in a day or two, I find it fairly easy to catch up by running a dungeon and doing a few quests or going to IC with a friend.

I think the OP just needs to work on splitting up his time a bit more efficiently. I spend a fair amount of time on the weekends running my alts on guild events, or doing training runs for Trials (which don't yield a truckload of XP), and I'm still able to get through all my enlightenment.

OP: As someone else pointed out, you are being rewarded for your efforts as a Veteran/Champion when you play your alts by being able to allocate Champion Points to them if you so wish.

If non-vet characters are going to start earning champion points now, we might as well just throw the whole 1-50 leveling out the window and start with CP from the get-go.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I just want the 30,000 health, 50,000 magic build he mentioned. Haha

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/270509/attention-ep-ad-dont-come-to-ic#latest

You can ask I guess.

Shadesofkin · June 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

I honestly believe this would do more harm than good *now* but this is how I originally thought it would work.

nine9six · June 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

Choices have consequences.

Since they took the Pledge of Allegiance out of the classroom I'm guessing they haven't replaced it with anything. I'd be down like 4 flat tires for schools to have the students repeat this aloud for 30 seconds.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The CP has been fitted for cusuals,

Your enlightenment stacks up 12 times and can be grinded out in 45 mins.

You would have not survived this before orsinium.

No wonder ZOS seems to mess things up every update, look at constant nonsense they have to deal with!

Sighs. I love you too.

So is this account wide or not ?
I havent asked anything about the fastest way to grind CP.
I have asked for the ability to gain some AP while playing the game on something other than a Vet.
ie. a Vet player making and developing alts.

Does it really matter if I am doing 100 hours of questing on a vet character or 100 hours of questing on a non-vet.
Questing content is not exactly that challenging is it ?
Thats rhetorical by the way.

TheShadowScout · June 2016

It's an easy system.
From levels 1 to 50, you gain levels for your earned XP.
From levels 50 onward, you gain champion points instead.

The levels are character specific.
The champion points are account wide.

No reason to ask to gain -both- levels AND Champion Points... that'd be a bit greedy, don'tcha think?

That said...

I too like to take it slow. And yet I had no problem raising my CP wile also levelling alts... I just played for the daily enlightment on my veterans, then switched to my alts and spent the rest of my gametime on them. Easy enough. And once you get your alts through the mainstory and into cadwells... you can -really- start raking in those CP.

And yes, before that you will be lagging behind. But rejoice, if you like to PvP without getting pasted, there now is that shiny new "No CP" server... where you can PvPlay without having to worry and not like the rest of us before that try to earn our AP by getting stomped ny über-CP players...